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8:18 AM
@UlrikeFischer no need to state the obvious
8:55 AM
@Rmano ooh
@DavidCarlisle ooh
@DavidCarlisle quack
@PauloCereda breakfast
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@DavidCarlisle miss you <3
@JosephWright forget XPS or MacBook, get this instead: gizmodo.com/…
9:11 AM
@DavidCarlisle no need to state the obvious ;-)
@UlrikeFischer oh no
@UlrikeFischer miss you too <3
@PauloCereda I'm here! I'm not in hiding.
@UlrikeFischer ooh
@UlrikeFischer I'm back as well now
9:17 AM
@DavidCarlisle short holiday.
@PhelypeOleinik did you change anything recently in l3doc? I rebuild the documentation for a package which was last released on 2020-04-29, but now every \begin{function} leaves a small o left of the function name in the margin and another small o before the syntax.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz hi Mr. Rabbit!
@UlrikeFischer 5 nights, in UK, so a bit different to usual years, for some reason or another
> When the Queen goes to the House of Parliament, a member of Parliament is taken and held hostage at Buckingham Palace until the Queen safely returns. If she doesn't make it back, whatever happens to her happens to the hostage as well. (In 1649, a hostage was actually beheaded).
Wait, WHAT?!
@PauloCereda seems reasonable.
9:22 AM
@DavidCarlisle Does the same happen when someone in team breaks LaTeX, and Frank leaves people locked in the garden?
@PhelypeOleinik never mind, had an unclean texmf-home.
@PauloCereda Hi, Mr. Duck!
@PauloCereda well when did you last see Alan Jeffrey?
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Miss you too. <3
@DavidCarlisle oh no
> In 1895, there were just two registered cars in the entire state of Ohio. Somehow, the drivers managed to crash into each other.
10:04 AM
@PauloCereda WOW
@PauloCereda Aww! <3
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz <3
@JosephWright ooh
(in case anybody is wondering "<3" is the carrot smiley depicting a very short carrot)
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz ooh ­čąĽ­čÉç
10:29 AM
@PauloCereda dinner with vegetables
10:45 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Not my fault, of course :-)
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz But no, I did not significant (released) changes to l3doc yet
@PhelypeOleinik as already said, nevermind, it was just because of an unclean texmf-home from test-installing the latest latex3 master...
3 hours later…
2:11 PM
@PauloCereda If you get one of these you have to hire someone to carry it for you as well ;-)
@ChiefO'Brien I cannot afford them. :)
But I wanted a MacBook Pro (to install Linux afterwards :D )
@PauloCereda Eek, Mac....
@ChiefO'Brien I can accept a XPS too :)
I have a low entry Vostro and an old Latitude
@PauloCereda DELL is also very expensive
@ChiefO'Brien im here, all brands considered, it's still a good option.
2:25 PM
I need help with a TikZ issue.
I want to move that arrow upwards so that it is in the middle.
Here is the source: bpa.st/G2GQ (contains only the relevant part).
Any ideas?
@feynhat Hi, can you ask your question directly on the site?
@feynhat There you will see more users and the many experts in Tikz :)
Hmm... I didn't know this warranted a whole new post on main site. But if you say so... sure.
2:44 PM
@PauloCereda "Btrfs is the new default filesystem in fedora 33", some experience with this file system?
@PabloGonzálezL I have it in one my laptops since Fedora adopted it as an alternative to the default EXT4 a couple of years ago. I really enjoyed it. :)
@PauloCereda I tried to use it with opensuse (about 10 years ago, when it was new) but it only brought me headaches :(
@PauloCereda Some "noticeable" advantage in daily use, or is transparent to the user?
@PabloGonzálezL ouch sorry to hear... :(
@PabloGonzálezL To be honest, I didn't notice anything stellar...
@PabloGonzálezL I must say I tried openSuse once and my experience was very bad...
@PauloCereda I only used it when Red-Hat became a fedora (I went through a period of linux depression), but, my change didn't last long, opensuse needed a lot of resources and my pentium 1 of those years didn't give :(
@PabloGonzálezL oh I went for Fedora Core. :)
3:00 PM
@PauloCereda I migrated from Gentoo to Red-Hat => Fedora (I skipped debian and ubuntu)
@PauloCereda I thought about going to something "rolling", but, I'm staying with my dear fedora :)
@PabloGonzálezL Wise skips. :)
@PabloGonzálezL I once tried Rawhide. It was fun but it's the very definition of "unstable". :)
@PabloGonzálezL Fedora <3
@PauloCereda I've tried Rawhide, but, I always end up breaking some library, I stick with the stable ones :)
@PabloGonzálezL yep. :)
@PauloCereda And it's one of the few distributions that works on almost any old PC
@PabloGonzálezL Yes
3:09 PM
@PauloCereda Larga vida a mi querido "AMDk6"
@PabloGonzálezL ooh
@PauloCereda It still works :) ...it takes a lot, but, it's still active
@PabloGonzálezL :)
@PabloGonzálezL I miss the times when Fedora had wacky release names.
I suggested two names that almost got chosen!
@PauloCereda Fedora quak?
@PabloGonzálezL There was a criterion, so it could not be random, sadly. :)
3:17 PM
@PauloCereda I remember voting for "Schrödinger" (I liked the name thing)
@PabloGonzálezL I remember it, Fedora 19 :)
My entry was Gutzwiller
@PauloCereda Good time, I still have some "CDs" with old versions of fedora, my son wants to turn them into cups, according to NOBODY uses CDs now :(
@PabloGonzálezL Yes, it was usually 6 CD's, I guess!
@PauloCereda And there was always one with a little stripe... I remember spending hours installing
@PabloGonzálezL oh
3:38 PM
@PauloCereda you never installed linux off floppy disks?
@DavidCarlisle no... but I had the bootloader in floppy disks...
@PauloCereda first laptop I had had debian off (I think) 12 floppy discs (it was a choice between debian and mcc interim
@DavidCarlisle ooh
@PauloCereda But since Owen who wrote the MCC distribution was a mate of mine and he was recommending Debian, I figured Debian was the thing to use:-)
@DavidCarlisle Manchester blokes. :)
3:45 PM
@DavidCarlisle Now that was a headache ... once he tried to install slackware ... absolutely fail :(
@PauloCereda Version 0.99.p8+ was the most important release
@DavidCarlisle Added to version 0.99.p8 were emacs and info
@PabloGonzálezL I had Slackware, good times. :)
@PauloCereda I didn't manage to configure X and I left :(
@PabloGonzálezL ooh
@PauloCereda sadly no vi(m)
3:50 PM
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@PauloCereda grr but now I see elvis was a vi clone, and it had that from the start
@DavidCarlisle ooh success
4:17 PM
@PabloGonzálezL How does one turn CDs into cups?
@samcarter_is_at_texnique.fr pour liquid into the central hole, and drink quickly
@samcarter_is_at_texnique.fr Problems with the translator :) ... In "coaster", a nice printed vinyl technique is applied and they look great
I see we have one expl3 user on LuaMetaTeX
@JosephWright we need to fix that:-)
@DavidCarlisle Er ...
4:27 PM
@JosephWright having a user, not the issue
@DavidCarlisle That's what I suspected you meanr
@JosephWright any thoughts on the learnlatex translation issue?
@DavidCarlisle You mean having inputenc in the examples?
@JosephWright oh sorry I see you had replied there already
@DavidCarlisle :)
4:35 PM
@DavidCarlisle well Hans seems to work on it ;-)
@Rmano What is the difference between your and @PhelypeOleinik
IfFileHasChanged query?

In his version, 'has changed' also comes when the file is new written;
I only need 'has changed' if the file content changes.
@UlrikeFischer I think if you are using LMTeX you should know 'anything might happen'
@DavidCarlisle which one do you mean?
@UlrikeFischer Probably a repair here is easy enough, as we only need a thin wrapper around some Lua
@Rmano @PhelypeOleinik Although I think everything is right with him.

Request withdrawn - sorry!
@PhelypeOleinik You could consider a 1-command-package for CTAN ;)
4:45 PM
@JosephWright yes I saw Marcel's posting and remark about it. But imho don't they should make bug reports in the context list, that the engine broke expl3 and not the other way round ;-((
@UlrikeFischer 66 github.com/learnlatex/learnlatex.github.io/issues/66 but the discussion is more general than Spanish
@DavidCarlisle sounds like a good idea to add a fontenc line.
@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer I could add the T1 fontenc call and some introductory words in a PR...
@DavidCarlisle cool
5:04 PM
@JosephWright what is the fastest way to get rid of the hsb: here hsb:rgb/cmyk? (assuming that it doesn't have to be there at all)
@UlrikeFischer I've not coded that it, but just a delimited function that chucks anything before the first : would be easy enough
@JosephWright if there is colon it is trivial, but if the argument is rgb/cmyk?
So @UlrikeFischer this was what I needed...
And you want me for endless (and needless) discussions. :P

Compile 1 time and look.
Complile again and look.
% tex.stackexchange.com/questions/557511/…?
\file_if_exist:nTF { myfile.txt }
    \ior_open:Nn \g_tmpa_ior { myfile.txt }
    \ior_str_get:NN \g_tmpa_ior \l_tmpa_tl
    \ior_close:N \g_tmpa_ior
    \tl_put_right:Nn \l_tmpa_tl { ~change. }
  { \tl_set:Nn \l_tmpa_tl { This~is~my~file. } }
\iow_open:Nn \g_tmpa_iow { myfile.txt }
\iow_now:Nx \g_tmpa_iow { \l_tmpa_tl }
Ok, that's partly arrogant: But I'm easily among the top 10 idea generators here.
(I'm just too stupid for the implementation.)
\cs_new:Npx \__color_split_colon:n #1
    \exp_not:N \__color_split_colon:w  #1 \c_colon_str \c_colon_str
    \exp_not:N \q_stop
    \cs_new:Npn \exp_not:N \__color_split_colon:w ##1 \c_colon_str ##2 \c_colon_str
    ##3 \exp_not:N \q_stop
    \tl_if_blank:nTF {#2}
      { #1 }
      { #2 }
\cs_set_protected:Npn \test #1
    \tl_set:Nx \l_tmpa_tl { \__color_split_colon:n { #1 } }
    \tl_show:N \l_tmpa_tl
@UlrikeFischer ^^^
This is a world first!!
% Check if Raw Data has changed
          {  \IfFileExists{\PersDataHelpFilename}{}{\MakePersDataHelpfile}  }
5:41 PM
@cis hm, I hate to disappoint you, but there are quite a number of implementations testing file changes. How do you think e.g. tikz knows that it doesn't have to recompile an externalized file? How do you think the rerun test in the rerunfilecheck package (from 2009) works? All these implementations uses hashes. The problem with your question was not the general idea, but that your descriptions of the spec was too vage -- as can be seen by the comments.
@JosephWright It looks as if I get most all of xcolor only with this patch
\cs_if_exist:NT \color_set:nnn
    \cs_new_protected:Npn \@expl@color@set@nnn #1#2#3
     { \exp_args:Nnx\color_set:nnn {#1}{\__color_split_colon:n { #2 }}{#3}}
@UlrikeFischer You can give me a hand with (tex.stackexchange.com/q/557918/7832), the answer is OK, but, I lose the page numbers (I'm not very familiar with KOMA )
6:02 PM
@cis there is a fundamental difference between my implementation and @PhelypeOleinik's one (a part that his is better). My algorithm check that the file has changed *since previous compilation of the main LaTeX file*, and their check if the file has changed *since the last time you checked it*.
So in my implementation, if you call the `IfFileHasChanged` two times in the same LaTeX compilation run, you will have the same answer --- in @PhelypeOleinik's one, the first time it will say if it has changed or not, the second time will say that it hasn't changed.
@PabloGonzálezL reset also the headwidth: \setheadwidth[0pt]{text}.
@UlrikeFischer I need it primarily for input data, should mean simple text files with tabular content. And it seems to work well for that.
@cis I didn't say that it doesn't works, only that it isn't really new stuff.
@UlrikeFischer Thank you very much, KOMA's documentation is very extensive, I did not find it necessary to modify
@cis so probably you will check the file once per run, so my approach or @PhelypeOleinik's one will be equivalent. And his implementation is much cleaner than mine (and I discovered property lists, that as soon as the temperature drop so that my brain start working again I think to learn deeply!)
6:18 PM

PS: And I don't know what's so incomprehensible about it:

Input file contains: abc -> do

The input file still contains: abc -> do nothing

Input file suddenly contains: abc xyz -> do it again

PPS: If there was a packet that did that for my input files, I would use it.
The knowledge that TikZ et. all is secretly using sth. like that in the background is of no usefull to me.
@Rmano Ahhh haaaa.... ;)
@cis the problem is that is not clear what happens between one step or the other!
I interpreted this:
Run pdflatex
Input file contains: abc -> do
Run pdflatex
The input file still contains: abc -> do nothing
Run pdflatex
Input file suddenly contains: abc xyz -> do it again I i
It's a clever method with the MD5 number.

Just how to save them in general in the aux file. You solved that if I see it correctly.
@Rmano Yes.
While @PhelypeOleinik interpreted:
Run pdflatex
Chech IfFile changed
Input file contains: abc -> do
@Rmano Yes, but only in the first run, I think.
Check iFfile has changed (in the same run)
The input file still contains: abc -> do nothing
Check IFfile has changed (in the same run)
nput file suddenly contains: abc xyz -> do it again I i
See the difference?
That was the thing that was not clear in your question. If I use the check to the same data to rebuild say, two diagrams in the same LaTeX run, I want my idea of "changed". If you load the data once and then use it in you LaTeX file, you want the other implementation.
6:26 PM
@Rmano So here the help file is only written once for his version, provided nothing has changed?
% Check if Raw Data has changed

          {  \IfFileExists{\PersDataHelpFilename}{}{\MakePersDataHelpfile}  }
Oh... oh... This is the complete example:
% tex.stackexchange.com/questions/557511/…?
\file_if_exist:nTF { myfile.txt }
    \ior_open:Nn \g_tmpa_ior { myfile.txt }
    \ior_str_get:NN \g_tmpa_ior \l_tmpa_tl
    \ior_close:N \g_tmpa_ior
    \tl_put_right:Nn \l_tmpa_tl { ~change. }
  { \tl_set:Nn \l_tmpa_tl { This~is~my~file. } }
\iow_open:Nn \g_tmpa_iow { myfile.txt }
\iow_now:Nx \g_tmpa_iow { \l_tmpa_tl }
@Rmano Judging by the time stamp, the auxiliary file persdata-raw.txt is rewritten every time
@Rmano Yeah damn it! Back to zero. I think I should let it go.
@Rmano I probably don't get it, but I got the impression that your version shows the desired behavior. If you could change this to include a whatever filename, I could use that ...
@cis The difference of @Rmano's and my approach is that his code updates the MD5 at the end of the LaTeX run, and mine updates when the conditional is used. If you only check a file once in the document, both methods give the same result.
@Rmano Glad to know you learned something :-)
6:41 PM

No idea....
My sample code is probably too big to look at.

I just want persdata-help.tex to be written only once, provided nothing has changed in persdata-raw.txt

Because that's actually just a simple example. I have much more complex ones, with a lot of table work, etc.
@cis Both should work then. Since you only want to write persdata-help.tex once, you don't need to know if the file changed in more places in the document.
@PhelypeOleinik The problem is that persdata-help.tex is apparently rewritten every time, regardless of whether something has changed in the content in persdata-raw.txt
At least that's what the timestamp tells me.
(It is not so noticeable in such a simple example)
@PabloGonzálezL Oh, that sounds like a nice idea. Maybe my collection of old texlive cds could become a matching set :)
@feynhat It's kind of an FAQ actually, what happens is all three elements are placed with their bottom edge on the baseline. A quick fix is \begin{tikzpicture}[baseline=-3cm] (you may need to adjust the length). By the way, if you're not adding caption, you don't need the \subfloats.
@samcarter_is_at_texnique.fr Hehe... that would be a sacrilege :)
6:54 PM
@PhelypeOleinik @Rmano

So the way I see it, IfFileHasChangedTF asks:

If persdata-raw.txt was changed OR rewritten, then "do" ....

The latter (the "rewritten") would have to go, otherwise I can't use it.
@PabloGonzálezL It would be a nice way to show the collection off to guests :)
@cis Ah! That's because you are testing the file before \begin{document}. The .aux file is read at \begin{document}, so before that ÔÇťall files have changedÔÇŁ. You didn't read the fine print in my answer:
> Also, since the state is stored in the .aux, before \begin{document} the first time you call \IfFileChangedTF for a file will always return <true>.
@PhelypeOleinik Ok, and what have I to do now?
@cis The easy way out is to move the \IfFileChangedTF test after \begin{document}. If that's not possible you'll need a dedicated auxiliary file to hold the MD5 sums.
@PhelypeOleinik MMmmh, ok. Seems to work this way:
% tex.stackexchange.com/questions/557511/…?
\file_if_exist:nTF { myfile.txt }
    \ior_open:Nn \g_tmpa_ior { myfile.txt }
    \ior_str_get:NN \g_tmpa_ior \l_tmpa_tl
    \ior_close:N \g_tmpa_ior
    \tl_put_right:Nn \l_tmpa_tl { ~change. }
  { \tl_set:Nn \l_tmpa_tl { This~is~my~file. } }
\iow_open:Nn \g_tmpa_iow { myfile.txt }
\iow_now:Nx \g_tmpa_iow { \l_tmpa_tl }
1 hour later…
8:19 PM
user image
@DavidCarlisle So richly deserved.
@AlanMunn I think so, yes.
@DavidCarlisle Impresionante :-)
8:39 PM
@DavidCarlisle Promoting TikZ one picture at a time.
@AlanMunn some people get that badge for far less deserving posts
@DavidCarlisle That's really bizarre indeed.
@DavidCarlisle There must be a comment on a much more substantial question that links to this. It's certainly not a question that I ever recall having linked to.
9:15 PM
@DavidCarlisle There's now a first golden tag badge at meta, for discussion. Because of - recently. :-)
10:03 PM
@JosephWright along with \pretocmd{\XC@col@rlet} {\@expl@color@set@nn{#2}{#4}}{}{\fail} the normal commands xcolor works more or less fine. But I wonder about the "global" colors. xcolor seems to need them for the series.
@DavidCarlisle ooh

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