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7:21 AM
The TikZ manual is very well documented; a (simple) example is given for each fart.

But as far as the whole pgfkeys story is concerned, the manual is limited to a few general remarks.

Isn't there a clever tutorial for pgfkeys?
7:59 AM
Q: pgfkeys: Different output depending on a keyword

cisI need an output like \cmd[map] ---> "S1 S2 S3" (output) \cmd or \cmd[map=false] ---> "S0" (output) I looked here and here. How can I get a command with pgfkey for that? \documentclass[a4paper]{article} \usepackage{tikz} \pgfkeys{/tikz/.cd, /map/.is family, /map/.cd, %<-added /.cd ...

8:56 AM
@cis I answered, but you can also look at tex.stackexchange.com/a/114017/38080
9:06 AM
@DavidCarlisle The .aux file is read in at begin document, when the idx files have already been opened.
@DavidCarlisle Well, one might also delay the opening…
Mmhh, yes, thanks irst.

I have two problems here: https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/114017/38080

- \cmd[map] alone seems not to work.

- But fundamentally I wonder why this seems not to be possible with "plain pgfkeys syntax"

Because: It is clear that this is an abstract, simplified MWE from me. I don't just want to write "S1 S2 S3". I can hardly list the 17 lines that are hidden behind "S2" in the "MWE".
That I basically need numerous other keys - that means: If this is only possible in such a complicated way, I cannot use it.
@egreg can't you call makeindex after the last shipout?
MY LINK WAS FALSE, I MEANT: https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/552126/pgfkeys-different-output-depending-on-a-keyword/552128?noredirect=1#comment1394200_552128

I meant your answer @Rmano
I know your link, but can't adjust it. @Rmano
@cis ok, in a meeting now. If you want to use a pure map, you don't use the is choice... will try to help something later
@Rmano Ok, thx.
9:27 AM
@egreg yes realised that later, should be able to do something though (or at least mention it in the doc:-) But as Ulrike says maybe the hook work will give you a safe really after last page is shipped out hook to do something
@DavidCarlisle Who is the most daring pgkfkeyer here?
@cis I made another try at it.
9:47 AM
we passed the 200.000 ...
9:59 AM
Yes, maybe I can adjust that.

I really need to use the usual Tikz syntax \cmd [map]
or \cmd[] = \cmd[map = false]
(in contrast to your \ cmd [map] or \cmd[no map])

Comparable to "\node [draw = none] {aaa};"
(here 'false' instead of 'none')

I am still amazed at why this doesn't seem to be trivial with "pgfkeys alone".
@cis My problem is that I am not understanding what exactly you need. It's surely doable. Can you try to outline your spec exactly?
10:15 AM
It was probably incomprehensible. I need:

`\cmd` --> "S0" (output)

`\cmd[]` --> "S0" (output)

`\cmd[map]` ----> "S1 S2 S3" (output)

`\cmd[map=true]` ----> "S1 S2 S3" (output)

`\cmd[map=false]` ----> "S0" (output)
@cis Ok, so I think I got it in the last modification. I do not claim it is the simpler way to do it, but it works.
10:38 AM
Ahaaaa, ok ok. Looks very good. I'm just wondering why the pgfkey can't do it alone.

But I think I can continue to work like this.

The global setting is a good idea.

We'll probably name that later

\quaktutorset{map = true, ....}

@cis I don't understand what "do it alone" means here. Basically, pgfkeys are a super-duper way of doing \def\this@key{A} or \def\this@key{B}. You set parameters and then you use those parameters in your code. Your example of draw is similar --- it manages things and finally sets \pgfpathcolor{} or something like this...
@Rmano I mean the part with
        S1 S2 S3
I had assumed that pgfkey commands are possible here, e.g.

xyz/.code = {S1 S2 S3}

or something like that.
@cis It's probably possible, but... why? You can define a code with an argument that do the choice, and then use the .code key, but at the end would be a complex way to do the same...
10:54 AM
Yes that's right. I just thought it could be expensive if you have several bools, of which "map" is one.

Such if-then-else nestings could be complex.
Well, I'll see how far I can get.
@cis if-the-else is complex, yes, but only if you need to do it at low level (as in circuitikz, that should be format-agnostic). In LaTeX you can use the ifthen or xifthen package and this is much easier.
Ok, (x)ifthen could be useful here.

But there I read somewhere that the use of pgfkey makes the use of (x)ifthen unnecessary. Hence my skepticism.
11:18 AM
@Rmano I wouldn't use ifthen or xifthen in key code, it is not expandable and slow.
@UlrikeFischer Yup
@UlrikeFischer expl3
@UlrikeFischer Or etoolbox
@JosephWright expl3 with l3keys naturally ;-).
@DavidCarlisle which FF version do you have?
Ahhhhaaaaa!!! :()
How would you do: https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/552128/46023
(last example)
11:33 AM
@cis I wouldn't use pgfkeys ;-). I'm not getting along with it, I do find it confusing that defining keys and using them is done with the same command.
Note that the contents "S0" and "S1 S2 S3" later will become tikzpictures (partly pgfplotstable-stuff).
So I think it is no bad idea to use pgfkeys for the settings and the output "S1 ..." as well.
11:47 AM
@UlrikeFischer I had a cursory look to conditionals in l3, they seems nice... with bare \if I always get confused :-(. I can do "AND" (\ifA\ifB true \fi) but I got confused with \else there, and I have to look it up when I want to do an "OR"...
@PauloCereda 80.0a1 (2020-07-01) (64-bit)
@DavidCarlisle oh my... I was going to mention that FF 78 (stable) had some changes regarding PDF view... nevermid. :)
@PauloCereda yawn, you are so far behind
@DavidCarlisle slow and steady
@PauloCereda sounds like oven instructions
11:49 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh no
@DavidCarlisle I think we need to edit learnlatex.org/en/lesson-02
@DavidCarlisle Also, do we want to change the 'LaTeX Online' name to something else?
12:14 PM
@DavidCarlisle Tried:
%!TeX program = LuaLaTeX
ABC → αβγ → {\cjkfont 你好}

@JosephWright OMGTeX
@PauloCereda Try it out!!
:54835463 Your method is `\newif\....` and all I have seen uses that too.
For example here: https://tex.stackexchange.com/a/506429/46023

On the other hand, there is a pgf-key `/.is if` --- maybe I can use that....
@JosephWright oh no
@cis no my method is \bool_new:N ...
@Rmano they are nice. Much less trouble, easy creation of bool expressions or more complex conditionals, and much less opportunities to loose a \fi somewhere.
12:27 PM
@UlrikeFischer Pfff.... Your method.... In the end, your method is a code that no normal person can understand. :()

I meant the method of @Rmano
@DavidCarlisle I tried this and got an error "Bad Input":
%!TeX program = LuaLaTeX

\newfontfamily\notoemoji{Noto Color Emoji}[Renderer=HarfBuzz]
 {\notoemoji  🦆}

@UlrikeFischer :(
@UlrikeFischer @Rmano
Ok, if I read the example exactly, he uses \newif\... too
\pgfkeys{/flat world/.is if=theworldisflat}
\pgfkeys{/flat world=false}
(tikz manual p. 989)
@JosephWright it must be something with the font, the input in itself doesn't error. These color fonts are a bit difficult.
12:52 PM
@UlrikeFischer @JosephWright bad input means that tex tried to access a file outside the places I'd said it could (you can't read /etc/passwd:-) let me check wha it's doing and I'll allow it...
@DavidCarlisle it includes a file from TMP on my system: AppData/Local/Temp/s5t4.0. Probably setting TMP to something allowed should work.
@UlrikeFischer yes same there
Ehhhh, a question:

What is this: `^^J` ?

Found in `\message{seal invert is no.^^J}`
@UlrikeFischer ^
@cis newline (control J is character 10)
@DavidCarlisle Aha, thx.
1:01 PM
@DavidCarlisle ;-) @PauloCereda should be pleased with you.
user image
@UlrikeFischer he will be now
@UlrikeFischer ooh
@DavidCarlisle oh no
1:20 PM
@UlrikeFischer yes, the conditional expressions are a gift from $DEITY. I would switch to expl3 only for those --- a pity that the tasl with circuitikz would be enormous. I'll study if I can do it step by step... (do expl3 works in plain-context? I suppose in context for sure, and I am not sure if I have any plain user...)
@cis I think that .is if is just a shortcut for dpoing what I did with domap ... but I can be wrong.
@Rmano Yes, I will try to rework your MWE with .if is
@Rmano ask @JosephWright
ooh there's a penguin
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz So I think I can close or delete https://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/552058/keyvalue-command-add-option-for-boolean-key

I think expkv is a good choice for commands like `\int[a=2, b=5, dx=x]{f(x)}`; here pgfkeys would be unnecessarily complicated.

But the *various kinds of the stroke orders* are complex TikZ-applications; so I think usage of pgfkeys is a good idea.
1:36 PM
@cis don't delete it, I can still answer it... :)
@cis though of course if you're using TikZ for your output, using pgfkeys comes naturally (though the results will not be usable by Turks).
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Yes, that was the reason why I didn't delete it. Because I didn't know if you might have thought of it there already.
@cis just a bit of limited free time :)
@UlrikeFischer I think I will use the summer to learn expl3. It's a bit surprising at first (especially the _ which I have to learn to simply skip in my mind and not pronounce like a glottal stop ;-) ) but the programming interface seems so much more powerful...
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz As I said, I no longer need the answer to this so urgently.
@Rmano it took me some time to get used to the _ and : and all the spaces too. But it makes code so much more readable if you can space it out and see which arguments a command takes that it is really worth the learning.
1:57 PM
@Rmano I doubt you'd need the full summer, imho one can learn it pretty fast.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I'll try as soon as I have a bit of time. It would de nice to have a tutorial... is there some easy package I can dig into as a sort of tutorial?
@Rmano not that I know of... You can take a look at ducksay, it is mostly coded in expl3 (only some argument grabbing is not in expl3 but with grabbox)
@Rmano or you can take a look at duckuments, which is in expl3 as well (but doesn't really do much)
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Ok thanks!
@Rmano I guess the l3packages bundle is either too easy, or too complicated to really count. You could as well take a look at all those answers given by @egreg.
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz Yes, going through @egreg answer probably counts as a nice tutorial. Will do (back to correcting exams now :-( --- I hate it, too easy to procrastinate).
2:12 PM
@Rmano Different people learn stuff in different ways. For me inspecting other people's code doesn't help much: I have to write it myself. My path to learn expl3 was reading expl3.pdf (and l3styleguide.pdf) to get to know the basic concepts (data types, signatures, etc.) then skim over interface3.pdf to see what functions are available, and then write code
@Rmano I know, luckily I'm already done with correcting (but had only a few). But now I have to think of new exercises for next Monday :( I find that very hard.
@PhelypeOleinik same way of learning it for me :)
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz me too
@PauloCereda @Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz :-)
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz I will try that, yes. I have to find a suitable smallish project and do it.
(see? procrastinating)
@Rmano (I released a new package yesterday...)
2:16 PM
@PhelypeOleinik <3
@PauloCereda I want to write a hands-on expl3 tutorial, eventually. A tugboat perhaps (not sure it's the right place...)
@PhelypeOleinik it's always the right and wrong place at the same time (as seen by the DuckBoat). :)
@PhelypeOleinik Talk to @egreg too?
@PhelypeOleinik +1000
We ducks have powers
2:19 PM
@Rmano Yes, the core stuff is all format-neutral
@PauloCereda Schrödinger's article :-)
@JosephWright Most likely
@PhelypeOleinik Exactly :)
@PauloCereda ...but penguins could threathen you... theguardian.com/environment/2020/jun/24/…
@Rmano I'll let you know
@PhelypeOleinik Unless people read it, which might cause problems with the superposition thingy
@Rmano oh no
2:20 PM
@PauloCereda Oh no :-)
@PhelypeOleinik Speaking of TUGBoat, according to my dad, "something very odd arrived in the mail for you."
[paulo@cambridge Seriados] $ du -hcs Pokémon/
82G	Pokémon/
82G	total
@PhelypeOleinik ^^ oopsie
@Rmano If you plan on using expl3 for format-agnostic code in circuitikz, take a look at scontents (I wrote the different loaders for Plain, ConTeXt, and LaTeX: not saying it's good, but it works :-)
@PauloCereda Oh, mine arrived a few days ago as well
@PauloCereda That's a lot!
@PhelypeOleinik ooh
@PhelypeOleinik so are the Pokémans :)
@PauloCereda Fair enough :-)
@PhelypeOleinik Will do.
@PhelypeOleinik moreover, it seems that it's almost already doing what I wanted to do --- save complex "\draw" commands while building the path to issue them at the end of the pictures... ;-)
2:34 PM
@Rmano If you want to read the commands verbatim and later execute them, then yes, that's basically what the package does :-)
@PhelypeOleinik is that just a big wrapper around \scantokens?
@JosephWright @PhelypeOleinik Might be a remedy against laziness. ;-)
@egreg You've got lots of new goodies to add ;)
2:50 PM
@egreg ooh
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz (@PabloGonzálezL) A mixture of filecontents, \tl_set:Nn, and \scantokens, yes :-)
3:11 PM
@JosephWright \text_expand:n doesn't like latex warning messages:

%   \@latex@warning{#1%\@gobble %without the \@gobble it compiles ...
%    }%
%   }
   \tl_set:Nx \l_tmpa_tl {\text_expand:n { \@author } }
@UlrikeFischer Well no, it wouldn't
@JosephWright I only have to ask to realize that \text_declare_expand_equivalent:Nn \@latex@warning@no@line {\use_none:n} will work ...
@UlrikeFischer Should we add that?
3:31 PM
@JosephWright I don't think that \@author should explode like this in \text_expand, that is a quite probable content. But perhaps one can also improve the messages. Can we collect this somewhere?
@UlrikeFischer Log an issue
@PhelypeOleinik -- Why wouldn't TUGboat be the right place? (And that would give me a better opportunity to learn it.)
@JosephWright hm. Is it a latex3 or a latex2e issue then?
@UlrikeFischer LaTeX3
@UlrikeFischer Easiest solution is to make \@latex@warning@no@line protected
@JosephWright what would be the most complicated solution?
3:40 PM
@PauloCereda It's TeX, that's a tarpit
@UlrikeFischer Had a chance to look at the latest color-multi-models yet?
@JosephWright ooh a tarpit
@JosephWright depends what the latest is ;-) If I'm right the last meaningful commit was the correction of the gray handling and that worked as expected. Then I started with the spot colors, but you had to handle the deprecation first: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/54824043#54824043
@UlrikeFischer I've not looked at the spot colors for a few days: wanted to get export/multi-models sorted, then look at the cctab stuff; I'm almost done with that :)
@JosephWright yes seems to work. But that would be a latex2e issue ;-).
I haven't seen scrodinger's mouse recently. Where is he?
3:50 PM
@UlrikeFischer Raise on the team list?
@TooFatManNoNeck Not around at present
@JosephWright OK. Thank you!
@JosephWright I wasn't looking at the backend part of the spot colors, I wanted to check first if the multi-model stuff, the mixing and the export stuff works there too. So basically what happens if the prop contains a "funnycolor => 1,2,blub" entry (and which functions are needed to make it behave).
4:29 PM
@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer 60 documents in last two days, how many have we three done? :-)
@DavidCarlisle do failures count?
@UlrikeFischer yes I was counting post requests, I could count pdf.js requests instead
@UlrikeFischer It would need the right parser and conversion functions, which won't be there necessarily: the code assumes that entires are valid
@DavidCarlisle with failures I'm responsable for quite a lot with trying to fill the cache with fira fonts ;-).
Feeling a bit nostalgic, I googled Barry Smith/Blue Sky Research just now and was saddened to learn that he died 8 years ago. He and Lance Carnes (PCTeX) were both encouraging and supportive of me when I was some punk-ass kid hanging with all the grown-ups at TUG meetings back in the day.
4:37 PM
@JosephWright yes, I guess that. I tried to add some dummy functions. But which one are actually needed? And which format should they have?
@DonHosek -- What makes you think we were "grown-ups"?
@DonHosek yes that was a shame and at the time there was some difficulty in getting rights to the software secured. Did you see this from his widow?
A: What happened to Textures and Bluesky Research?

Dr. Allegra SmithGood evening, The site remains with me, and to my knowledge nothing concerning either Bluesky or Textures has been reassigned to anyone else and I suppose I would know. Gordon Lee suffered a heart attack shortly after my husband died. Unfortunately it left him unable to work and retired to a he...

@barbarabeeton I hadn't put too much thought on that yet, but if you say it's okay, then great! I was thinking of choosing a programming task, then writing the solution step-by-step, explaining the concepts and functions along the way. What do you think?
@barbarabeeton My first couple TUG conferences I wasn't even old enough to drink legally. Well, I guess maybe my first I kind of was since Quebec has a lower drinking age than the US. I still remember walking around Montreal and thinking, wow, this is like being in a foreign country.
@DavidCarlisle Yes, that tex.se page was the first result that came up on my search. I'm pretty sure my Textures 1.0 box is long vanished.
4:55 PM
@PhelypeOleinik -- I think that's a very good plan. If you have some ideas about possible "programming tasks" but can't decide, feel free to ask.
@barbarabeeton quack
@PhelypeOleinik will the examples contain ducks?
@PauloCereda no
@DavidCarlisle oh
@DonHosek -- You should visit Quebec City sometime if you really want the feeling of being in a foreign country. Have you remained involved in typographic endeavors?
@barbarabeeton On the contrary: I don't have an idea yet :-) Three of the languages I know I learned the basics by writing a tic-tac-toe game, so that would be an option. But I don't want the code to be too massive, so I'm looking for something simpler, so that I can focus on “how to write expl3 code”, rather than “how to write tic-tac-toe in expl3
4:59 PM
@PauloCereda -- Likewise, although some of my time today has involved learning about a robotic sloth.
@PauloCereda See, David no longer likes roasted ducks
@barbarabeeton Not really. I pretty much went bankrupt with Serif. I made an attempt at grad school after 9/11, adjuncted for a while and then ended up back in programming work. Since then I've gotten an MFA in fiction and when I'm not writing or taking care of my kids I occasionally write stuff. I should be doing that right now instead of procrastinating. 🤷🏻‍♂️
@barbarabeeton ooh
@PhelypeOleinik that's... good? :)
@DonHosek -- This is a good place for procrastinating. What fiction genre? I can attest to the fact that you can spell and have a decent grasp of English grammar (although @DavidCarlisle will probably disagree). So good luck, and let us know when your first book appears.
@DonHosek hey we are very good at procrastinating. :)
5:08 PM
@PauloCereda -- If true ... which I doubt.
@barbarabeeton oopsie
@DavidCarlisle Frank broke zref ;-(. I started a new branch with corrections, if more appears we can collect there.
2 hours later…
6:49 PM
@wipet -- Regarding the report in tex.stackexchange.com/q/552113 , Knuth will be requesting the accumulated reports by the end of this year, so it should be forwarded as soon as possible. (I'm answering here because at the moment tex.sx won't let me do anything useful on the main site.) Instructions for submitting are given on the page cs.stanford.edu/~knuth/abcde.html
7:38 PM
@UlrikeFischer he can't be trusted:-)
@DavidCarlisle ;-). I don't know if I dare to check all the packages - they are bound to use all sort of atbegshi tricks.
8:11 PM
@barbarabeeton Thank you for your information about bug reporting of TeX. I didn't know that the "key year" is this year.
8:55 PM
@UlrikeFischer miktex skills in action: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/552219/…
9:08 PM
@DavidCarlisle hm. I wonder what that was. I thought one of the patches in the preamble were the cause, but was to lazy to assemble a test document.
9:19 PM
@UlrikeFischer the new test document the OP provided didn't leave much room for any error in the docuemnt
@DavidCarlisle ah, I hadn't seen this, and now the error shows also the line before.
@UlrikeFischer Op self answered:-)
@DavidCarlisle ;-) I wouldn't even know how to deinstall miktex, I never had to do it.
@UlrikeFischer people seem so keen to uninstall/reinstall these days. they wouldn't have done it if it took them a week to get a tape through the post:)
@DavidCarlisle ;-).
2 hours later…
11:26 PM
@Skillmonlikestopanswers.xyz -- Would you like it reopened so you can answer?

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