TeX, LaTeX and Friends

2:49 AM

so i just tried using \usepackage[extreme]{savetrees} to try and ... save some trees
it gave me 46 less pages
but it also gave me 421 errors
and for some reason i'm laughing

Nasser

4:10 AM

I am using auto-generated Latex code. I noticed    4 \mathrm{ln}  the space between the number 4 and ln becomes too small., compared to just 4 \ln.

Is this supposed to happen? why the difference? Please see MWE

\documentclass[12pt]{book}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{mleftright}
\mleftright
\begin{document}
\[
4 \mathrm{ln}\left({\mathrm e}^{x}\right)
\]

\[
4 \ln\left({\mathrm e}^{x}\right)
\]

\end{document}

Here is screen shot of the output

I prefer the second one, i.e. just 4 \ln. It seems \mathrm{ln} might not be appropriate to use here?

Nasser

4:31 AM

I think I'll post question on this in main board. Please ignore the above....

Plergux

6:03 AM

@PhelypeOleinik Cool :D We actually got our first computer from the meteorological office because we had a weather station. And since I some times had to "take the weather" I got to use it with the floppy ones. It had a special program for entering the weather information in numeric code. :p It also had a pac man knockoff we got to play and I did my typing exercises on it as well. :p

@PhelypeOleinik Yeah, I think all this early stuff prepared me pretty well. And I was just always interested in these things. My dad bought me my own computer when I graduated high school (I think that was probably Windows 95 or something XD). And then I am always astounded when people my age are like "help, computer did something! is broken!" and I'm like "Uhh... that's the screen saver." Xd

@barbarabeeton :D Nice. I get enough strange looks talking about a time before internet so I can imagine the perplexion :p

@egreg Yeah, I got pretty good at the English layout during my first linux days. Now you just pick the Icelandic keymap out of a list when you first install it. Which is nice, considering most other things pay no attention to Icelandic :|

123

8:09 AM

Hi Guys. Pls help me to solve this problem.

How to write LateX for arrow cross words with value.

for example i want to show $\cos180^{\circ}$ cross arrow cos angle with value 1.

Paulo Cereda

8:34 AM

@merrybot ooh naughty trees

Paulo Cereda

8:53 AM

@Skillmon ooh dolphins are mean

Ligatures for code: devfonts.gafi.dev

Paulo Cereda

9:19 AM

> Pineapples were very expensive in the 1700s, so American colonists would rent a pineapple and carry it around a party to flout their wealth.

rent a pineapple

Too much internet

ooh a QR cow: twitter.com/scale_banana/status/1330040499454042115

Skillmon

@123 don't use ^{\circ} for degrees, instead load siunitx and use \ang{180}.

@PauloCereda looks horrible, imho.

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon :)

Skillmon

@123 also, I'm not sure I understand what you want. Can you show us a sketch?

David Carlisle

9:39 AM

@Nasser I see you posted same as a question, this is same as \log and \mathrm{log} any latex tutorial should discuss "log-like operators", as they are called in the latex book) also you should not be useing \left\right the mleftright package offers an alternative, but you are loading the package but not using it. {\mathrm e} is just bizarre markup, what system is generating that?

@PauloCereda carry it round on a pizza, that other great American invention?

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle What in Italy we call "americanata"

David Carlisle

@123 I would guess that you mean \cancelto{\cos180}{1} from the cancel package

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@DavidCarlisle According to some international standard, the constant e = 2.71828… is supposed to be set in upright Roman type. Most mathematicians disagree, I think.

Plergux

@PauloCereda oooh! more fonts! ligatures what? \dowloads all fonts :p

David Carlisle

the interweb says of that term: The notion of Americanata also betrays how Italians feel about the appropriation of their own culture. They make fun of Americans (including Italian Americans) calling a pepperoni pizza one with salami topping instead of peppers (peperoni), and ordering a latte to mean coffee with milk and not just straight milk. And they may turn up their nose at pineapple pizza, spaghetti doughnuts and drinking cappuccino with lunch or dinner, even though Italians have been putting all sorts of things on pizza for decades and many Italians themselves have unconventional foo…

@HaraldHanche-Olsen no I meant using the syntax {\mathrm e} almost as if you took a 1980s generator and changed \rm to \mathrm without thinking.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

9:48 AM

@PauloCereda I sort of like the idea, but the implementation could have been better. I use prettify-symbol-mode in emacs. So where the TeX code says $\alpha \le \beta$ , emacs displays it as $α ≤ β$ . But crucially, when the text cursor is placed on one of these, the original TeX code is shown, so I can edit it.

@DavidCarlisle Oh, right. Silly me.

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle We put all sort of suitable things on pizza. We never use parmesan, it is a fake parmigiano, and never put cheese on a fish pasta! They write about Italians without knowing us :P

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@CarLaTeX No true Italian …

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX quarterly.politicsslashletters.org/what-is-an-americanata

TeXnician

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Next step: use LuaTeX and let emacs translate into unicode symbols directly instead of only displaying them (e.g. using TeX input method). That way, copy and pasting into mail buffers, diffs etc. is much more readable even for users without a sane editor ;)

CarLaTeX

Alberto Sordi, Un americano a Roma ... maccheroni, io ti distruggo

►

cult movie ^^^

David Carlisle

9:59 AM

@CarLaTeX ah that gets mentioned in the link I gave as well:-)

Nasser

@DavidCarlisle You said "also you should not be useing \left\right" This is autogenerated Latex. I have no control over \left( and right) in what is generated. I use using mleftright package package to improve the spacing around these. As for exp(), yes, this is what is generated now. This is Maple. BUt this is new Latex development they are doing, so if they are any issues, they like any feedback and I will let them know. please see screen shot

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle Sorry you can't understand the language, it is so laugh-out-loud funny!

David Carlisle

@Nasser yes sorry I noticed after that you used the \mleftright to redefine the original names.

@CarLaTeX Sono un vero linguista, capisco perfettamente

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@TeXnician I tried that, but it doesn't work too great when you have coauthors using different setups. Also, I don't know how many journals would accept TeX files requiring luatex. (But of course, you don't need luatex for utf-8 support.)

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle Does Google translator translate also the romanesco?

Nasser

10:04 AM

@DavidCarlisle btw, I see no difference on screen between ${\mathrm e}^{x}$ and $\mathrm{e}^{x}$ is there supposed to be some?

David Carlisle

@Nasser there is no difference there because you got lucky, the braces are doing northing, you are seeing the output of \mathrm e^{x} compare {\mathrm abc} and \mathrm{abc}

TeXnician

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Oh yes, I see, it's a bit difficult with journals. But coauthors should anyway be convinced to use emacs :D

CarLaTeX

@HaraldHanche-Olsen They are not false Italians, they are not Italians :)

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX Sono un vero linguista, capisco perfettamente

Nasser

@DavidCarlisle I see. Ok, will let them know. I will try to come up with an example where the difference is more clear then.

@DavidCarlisle But this is for $e$ only and nothing else. Not $abc$. So you still think they should use \mathrm{e} over {\mathrm e} just for "e" only? This is what I am not clear about.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

10:12 AM

@CarLaTeX I suppose you did notice the link in my post? ;-)

David Carlisle

@Nasser presumably they have some rules converting things to latex. if something gets converted to {\mathrm e} which is weird incorrect markup that happens to give the right thing by accident then the chances are some other things are being converted to {\mathrm abc} which doesn't work at all.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@CarLaTeX So what happens to an Italian who puts pineapple on pizza? Does she suddenly become not an Italian, and will the Pizza Police deport her to the US? Or is it just inconceivable that such a thing would happen in the first place?

Nasser

@DavidCarlisle I see. So far I only saw {\mathrm e}. But I will check my large latex file if there any other instances.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@DavidCarlisle More likely they have a specific rule converting exp(x) to {\mathrm e}^{x}, so I don't think this generalises. Yes, Maple generates awful latex, but in my experience, it displays more or less correctly. But it's been years since I last checked it. I wonder if one could export mathML from Maple, though, and use other tools to convert that to latex? It might produce better results.

Nasser

10:34 AM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Maple has MathML package. But I do not use it. I export everything to Latex. Here is its output for exp(x). Screen shot

Here is the text

MathML:-Export(expr)
"<math xmlns='http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML'><semantics><mr\

  ow xref='id3'><msup><mi xref='id1'>&ExponentialE;</mi><mi

   xref='id2'>x</mi></msup></mrow><annotation-xml encoding='Math\

  ML-Content'><apply id='id3'><exp id='id1'/><ci id='id2'>x</ci>\

  </apply></annotation-xml><annotation encoding='Maple'>exp(x)</\

  annotation></semantics></math>"

Harald Hanche-Olsen

11:03 AM

@Nasser Okay. But then the challenge is to convert that to latex. Searching the net for mathml to latex conversion, I get many hits, including several on the SE network – but I don't know if there exist solutions producing better quality than Maple does. Or how costly such solutions might be, whether in terms of money or time and effort.

Paulo Cereda

11:59 AM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh :)

Paulo Cereda

12:39 PM

@UlrikeFischer quack

barbara beeton

3:20 PM

@Plergux -- You may have heard of the Brown Corpus. (I actually keypunched a small portion of the input. How's that for antique? And I had classes with both the creators of the corpus, Henry Kucera and Nelson Francis. Kucera taught the only formal programing class I ever took; he was one of the pioneers of computer linguistics, and a wonderful teacher.)

yo'

@barbarabeeton btw, Henry Kucera -- that really sounds like a Czech descendant :)

Davislor

I’m not sure why {\mathrm e} would be more or less correct than \mathrm{e}. In most cases, I’d avoid the enclosing braces in math mode, because they clobber the expression’s math class and turn it into a \mathord, but that doesn’t matter here.

That’s not sarcasm: if egreg thinks there’s something wrong with it, there probably is and I just haven’t thought of it. He knows a lot more about TeX than I do.

barbara beeton

@yo' -- Oh, Henry absolutely was Czech. I'm not sure of the circumstances under which he came to the U.S. and to Brown, but his early education was at Charles University. When later Czech refugees came into the Rhode Island area, there was a humorous question going around, allegedly ascribed to him -- "Can you cache a small Czech?"

Davislor

Personally, I like to typeset the Euler constant in Euler or Computer Modern Upright Italic.

1

A: Different math-style options for different fonts with unicode-math package

In a Modern Toolchain This example sets upright math letters, \symup and \symbfup, to Neo Euler. It leaves digits and operator names unchanged. \documentclass[varwidth, preview]{standalone} \usepackage{mathtools} \usepackage{unicode-math} \defaultfontfeatures{Scale=MatchLowercase} \setmainfo...

Plergux

3:37 PM

@barbarabeeton I've not heard of the Brown Corpus but I will certainly check it out. I have mostly used the BYU corpus :)

Ulrike Fischer

2

German sheeps ^^

Plergux

@barbarabeeton That's pretty antique. But surely a step up from flipping through thousands of notecards. :p

@UlrikeFischer (^-^)b

yo'

@barbarabeeton Yeah, there's a strong linguistics group at CU. We have a vary large Czech National Corpus actually -- might be the one with the largest (corpus size) : (language natives) ratio in the world :) (well, behind the Klingon language obviously)

barbara beeton

3:53 PM

@yo' -- A current member of the Brown department of Slavic linguistics was in my tai chi class, before that got cut off by the virus. She specializes in Czech, and cooperates with the group at Charles University. (She's Japanese; how she got interested in Czech, I don't know, but she did, and now it's her profession.)

yo'

@barbarabeeton cool! Well, Czech is a very rich language, for one :)

barbara beeton

@yo' -- She was horribly disappointed when a planned research trip to Prague was canceled. Communication can proceed over the net, but it's not the same.

yo'

@barbarabeeton yeah, tell me that. Even after 14th month into my Overleaf job I haven't met anyone in person (other than meeting Paul Gessler in Darmstadt long before any one of us was at Overleaf)

123

Sorry for the late reply I was busy. Thanks a lot guys for the help.

Which is the best $LATEX$ software. I have TeXStudio with almost all packages.

Which one is easy for bigenners?

Plergux

4:16 PM

@123 It kind of depends what you're looking for. Personally, I started with TeXworks which is fairly minimal and I've stuck with it. I find all the "bells and whistles" of TeXStudio too intrusive while I work.

123

@Plergux It means TeXstudio is most popular and best software?

I want to write a lot mathematics, chemistry equations things.

Plergux

@123 I wouldn't know about popularity. If I wanted advanced features I'd probably go for Visual Studio Code, rather than TeXStudio. Unfortunately, I've not got much experience with maths and chemistry, being a linguist. :p You'd have to ask someone else about what editor is best for that kind of thing. :p

Joseph Wright

@123 TeXworks was written to help beginners as it means you don't get overwhelemd by menus, etc.: some people of course prefer the latter

123

Thanks all. I saw TeXStudio user manual which is not helpful. How to start. I know LateX commands but don't know how to start things on TeXStudio.

CarLaTeX

4:47 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen It's unconceivable

Alan Munn

5:34 PM

@123 TeXStudio is simply an editor which is designed to be integrated with a TeX Distribution. So the choice is really up to you. As @JosephWright points out, one thing that TeXStudio does is put lots of things into menus/panels that you can pick from. Most experienced LaTeX users don't use those things and prefer a better editing experience. You don't say which OS you are using, but if you're using a Mac I would also recommend TeXShop.

Rmano

5:47 PM

@123 If you are new to LaTeX, I think that --- independently of which tool you'll use in the future --- is very important to get its philosophy, which is greatly different from a word processor. You can spend a couple of days at learnlatex.org --- that will be time you will recover in less than a month if you are serious in using LaTeX.

7

Dr. Manuel Kuehner

8:04 PM

- Hello chat people :).
- I wasn't online for a while.
- Moved from Germany to China, back to Germany and now to the US within the last 13 months.
- Now I live in Mountain View, California.
- If someone of you lives close by --> let me know.

Skillmon

@Dr.ManuelKuehner welcome back!

@PauloCereda since the L3 packages always use x in their name, I guess the definitive name would be xabel, which is pretty close to the German informal word Gesabbel.

barbara beeton

@Dr.ManuelKuehner -- Mountain View, eh? I've been reliably informed that the Computer History Museum is an interesting place to visit. I've never been there, but it's high o my list.

Joseph Wright

@Dr.ManuelKuehner Jello

@Dr.ManuelKuehner Had a lot of fun?

Dr. Manuel Kuehner

8:26 PM

@Skillmon Thanks :).
@barbarabeeton That's on my list too :).
@JosephWright It was really mostly fun plus a logistic nightmare (not mentioning the paperwork, work visa etc).

(I am offline now again --> doing some errands)

Skillmon

@Dr.ManuelKuehner I hope your last year was as good as it could be anyways, despite the paperwork (and some minor global pandemic...) :)

Dr. Manuel Kuehner

@Skillmon Haha, yes.

Paulo Cereda

8:47 PM

@JosephWright ooh jell-o

@Skillmon ooh let's called isabel

Skillmon

@PauloCereda but Isabel is a girl's name, "Gesabbel" means "meaningless talking" or something like that. I really like that connotation of xabel.

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon ooh

Sebastiano

9:43 PM

Hello everyone and a big greeting to everyone. I hope you are well and healthy despite this very bad time. Always my best regards.

@egreg @DavidCarlisle Hiiiiii :-) Do something about the code tex into the main site that has turned blue again or else I won't vote you in the same way as @DavidCarlisle. The colour blue is bad for the eyes. Brown, green and avano are generally the colours used for the surfaces of counters. But can't anything be done? My sincere regards.

egreg

10:02 PM

@Sebastiano I find the new colors really awful. At least the coloring is no longer random.

Sebastiano

10:22 PM

@egreg I absolutely agree with you. But last year they listened to you and changed the colours. I don't like blue at all. It's not a controversy. But it's bad for the eyes. Every day I always wonder why things done well must always be changed for the worse. I don't like blue. :-((((((((( Don't worry...for the up....votes.....:-)ahahhah

Ulrike Fischer

11:39 PM

@DavidCarlisle why on earth does nameref patch from all caption commands only longtable?

Transcript for

$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends