@DavidCarlisle @UlrikeFischer I upgraded, and not grffile.sty is indeed empty. Just some comments.

Thanks for the tip.

Sorry, not -> now.

@DavidCarlisle for your amusement: github.com/hakluke/how-to-exit-vim :)

@PauloCereda I suspect this is the only way that really works github.com/hakluke/how-to-exit-vim#the-hardware-way

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@barbarabeeton I'd completely forgotten about texdoc shortmathguide wouldn't it make more sense to distribute that with amsmath rather than from the AMS? I don't see why it can't be merged with amsldoc (texdoc amsmath)

If I'm centering an \includegraphics call, does it make sense to use \noident as well? E.g.

\documentclass{scrartcl}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\begin{document}
\noindent
\begin{center}
\includegraphics[height=0.9\textheight,width=\textwidth,keepaspectratio=true]{foo.jpg}
\end{center}
\end{document}

It's hard to tell if it makes a difference either way. If it does, it's not much of one.

\noindent before center is completely wrong (a center environment is a vertical display construct it is never indented) you are just forcing a spurious paragraph before the display (try with \indent rather than \noindent to see more clearly)

@DavidCarlisle Ok. So don't use it, then.

@FaheemMitha also why use center here? if the image is \textwidth wide then it can't be centered and if it is the height rather than width that is being constrained the vertical offset from the center environemnt is just allowing less space for the image

@DavidCarlisle The image isn't \textwidth wide. It's a fairly narrow rectangle.

@FaheemMitha so you don't need width=\textwidth

And TeX (LaTeX?) doesn't center it by default. Not that I'm saying it should.

@DavidCarlisle Well, it might be necessary in some other case. The idea is to use it as a general template, for automatic operation.

As I understand it, that imposes a constraint.

The width=\textwidth line, I mean.

@FaheemMitha Yes: the image will exceed neither 90% of the text height nor the text width.

@egreg Thank you for the confirmation.

I also noticed that (in my example), if I set it to the text height, it creates two pages (in two sided mode), and puts the image on the second page. But I can get up to 0.99 of text height without it doing that.

Which makes me think it's triggering some condition somewhere. I don't think it has much to do with my specific JPEG file.

@FaheemMitha imagemagic or more or less anything

@DavidCarlisle Yes, a single one page file with just an image. I want to convert it to a PDF. There aren't that many good automated ways to do it.

@FaheemMitha convert image.jpg image.pdf

And not many actually leave the image alone, which TeX largely seems to.

@PauloCereda Yes, I could use imagemagick. But I've not had great experiences with it in the past.

Also, with TeX I can easily add annotation and other fine adjustments if I need to.

@FaheemMitha depending on your use case you don't have to scale the image to fit the page you can just make a page that fits the image, this for example (or standalone class which does the same)

\RequirePackage{graphicx}

\sbox0{\includegraphics{example-image.jpg}}
\pdfhorigin=0pt
\pdfvorigin=0pt
\pdfpageheight=\ht0
\pdfpagewidth=\wd0
\shipout\box0
\stop

@DavidCarlisle would you consider the following a bug in keyval? I'd think that number 2 should give the same result as number 4:

\documentclass[]{article}

\usepackage{keyval}

\makeatletter
\define@key{foo}{bar}{bar: `#1'\par}
\makeatother

\begin{document}
\setkeys{foo}{bar= ,bar={ },bar= {},bar= { }}
\end{document}

@Skillmon well I can say no before reading past the ? but let me look at the example....

@Skillmon there are some hmm "lightly documented features" in the handling of brace groups in keyval. I could dig out an old issue... I did put out a release once (based on some code from this chat (Stephan Lehmke, if I recall correctly) that addressed most of them but it broke babel and a few other things and wasn't universally popular so I backed it out...

@DavidCarlisle well, as soon as someone loads xkeyval your keyval gets overloaded anyway, doesn't it? :)

@Skillmon yes although xkeyval does the same here (I just checked)

@DavidCarlisle I didn't :)

@Skillmon if you need to get fancy with such things, use l3keys instead then if it doesn't work you can blame @JosephWright

@DavidCarlisle :) No, I just wanted to blame you. I think I only have one package that uses keyval, the rest of mine uses l3keys, iirc. I just wrote an expandable key=val parser, just for the sake of it, and compared it to keyval.

@DavidCarlisle I seem not to have managed yet to get this blame too ...

@UlrikeFischer did you write tests for l3keys?

@Skillmon does it matter for the blame?

@UlrikeFischer would make it easier to blame you. Or did you otherwise contributed to l3keys?

@Skillmon did it use more tokens than would fit in emtex on a 640K PC?

@UlrikeFischer you very nearly did

@DavidCarlisle the expandable key=val parser? How many tokens are that?

@Skillmon yes (I don't actually want an answer, just want to blame the machines of the era for any perceived deficiencies in keyval:-)

@DavidCarlisle 206 lines of code for the generic code file (so also defining stuff like \@firstoftwo which is needed).

@DavidCarlisle package loading is 5-6 times faster than for keyval, but \setkeys is a bit more than twice as fast as my expandable alternative.

@daleif regarding farming, I am sure you'd love to visit my city. :)

@Skillmon ah a bit less than loading expl3 then:-)

@DavidCarlisle rabbits are good with TeX code

@PauloCereda and with a red wine sauce

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@DavidCarlisle Well, it does need to be A4, since it isn't standalone.

In my use case, that is. It's included in a LaTeX document along with other files. Image and otherwise.

Did TexLive change much in the last 6 months? Specifically, is there an easy test to determine whether my LuaTeX is Harfbuzzed or not?

@FaheemMitha so why generate pdfs?

@FaheemMitha luatex does not have hb, lualatex in tl2019 does not, lualatex-dev in tb2019 does

@DavidCarlisle Well, the whole document is a PDF. It's easier to handle that single JPEG on it's own as far as conversion to PDF goes. Once it's a PDF, it is easy enough to include.

@DavidCarlisle I'm not sure what version I'm running here, though it's probably TeX Live 2019.

@FaheemMitha I do not see that at all, it seems harder. You have added extra white borders around the image and forced a particular scaling. If you simply included the image in your final document neither of those would be an issue.

@FaheemMitha it's not tl2020 unless you compiled it from source yourself

@DavidCarlisle Ok.

you can use iftex package and \ifluahbtex to test if you have an hb enabled luatex

@DavidCarlisle The image would get white borders anyway. It's not to scale for a A4. I don't know that it makes any real difference. Does \includepdf handle JPEGs as well? Since it's basically just \includegraphics, i guess it does.

@FaheemMitha yes but if an image has no border it is easy to scale it to fit a specific document/page or whatever (eg to add a caption) but if you add borders to them to make them a4 then that is harder as you have no information about the "real size" so there are disadvantages and no advantages

@DavidCarlisle Ok, but bear in mind that I'm trying for pretty much automated inclusion. So no special handling as far as possible. I can customise if I really have to, but it's extra work.

Customization as in scaling, for example.

I guess I could try including it directly and seeing what happens. I can't remember if I tried that or not.

@FaheemMitha ??? you need to use something to include the image so you can use exactly the form you used in the 1-page document

@DavidCarlisle Yes, but if I do it separately, I can special-case it based on extension.

But if it lump it in with everything else, then I have to do it manually.

By extension, I mean for example JPG. PDF doesn't require any special handling. You can just include it in another PDF and it will look exactly the same.

@FaheemMitha why do you need any special cases \includegraphics will include jpg or pdf or anything else that you can include

@DavidCarlisle Because it might not fit inside the page? But at least in this particular case, I can't remember if I have tried it or not.

@FaheemMitha no idea what you mean, it seems to me you are making it far more complicated than needs be, but it's your document, do whatever seems right.

As I said earlier, I tried including it without scaling and it created a two-page document and put the image on the second page.

@FaheemMitha as expected, if it is bigger than a page then it doesn't fit on a page. But no need to make a separate document to address that.

Oh no, a shooting in Ottawa!

I wonder if it is possible... :|

@EnthusiasticEngineer there are several tools that will set that copy flag (although it's trivial for anyone to copy the text anyway so doesn't gain a lot)

@DavidCarlisle Do you think I should define \@firstoftwo etc. in a generic package (as it should have the same meaning regardless of where it was defined) or define such things in a private "namespace", such as \ekv@firstoftwo?

@Skillmon that's exactly what Heiko's ltxcmds package does (although I don't like it much as he couldn't help adding improvements so the behaviour isn't always the same as the obvious latex equivalent)

% \subsection{Introduction}
%
% Many of my packages also support other formats such as plain-\TeX.
% Because I am rather familiar with the utility macros from
% \LaTeX's kernel (e.g. \cs{@gobble}, \cs{@firstoftwo}), I found
% myself rewriting them again and again, because they are lacking
% in plain-\TeX.
%
% Therefore this package provides often used macros and similar
% ones with the name prefix \cs{ltx@}. This avoids also faulty
% redefinitions. I remember an example where a package redefined

@DavidCarlisle I know that one (but never use it, for the same reasons).

@DavidCarlisle so should I do a \long\def\@firstoftwo#1#2{#1}?

@Skillmon yes that's what I'd do (and did in miniltx.ltx)

@Skillmon although to be honest cross-format packages are really just an interesting implementation challenge to entertain the author: the number of plain or context users who would use any of these latex-derived generic packages can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

@DavidCarlisle or rabbit paw

@DavidCarlisle The question says "I do want" not "I don't want". I wonder what is really meant @EnthusiasticEngineer.

@UlrikeFischer never believe what the OP says.

@PauloCereda how many fingers does a rabbit paw have?

@DavidCarlisle I guess there is absolutely no context user who'd use a LaTeX derived key=val interface... :) No idea how things are for plain users, I guess they wouldn't use a key=value interface in the first place :)

@DavidCarlisle ooh a challenge

@DavidCarlisle ^^

@PauloCereda so you just lost one context user

@DavidCarlisle oh no

ooh expkv

@UlrikeFischer I was hungry then, ate that delicious n't! :))

@DavidCarlisle with external tools? can't it be part of the pdflatex run?

@EnthusiasticEngineer I'd need to check the current state certainly at one point there were licencing issues that prevented open source software being able to do the necessary encryption. But if you allow printing it's more or less pointless anyway as if you print the pdf to a new pdf the new pdf won't protect the text from being copied (usually).

@DavidCarlisle -- I agree, it would definitely be reasonable to distribute the short math guide with amsmath. The reason it wasn't included originally is that Mike Downes did it on his own time, held the copyright, and for the release to CTAN, a copyright release had to be obtained from his daughters after his death. But I think it's probably better to keep it as a separate document from amsldoc; the document class is different, the page size is likely different (I think; haven't checked).

(cont'd) I'll take this up with the AMS gang and let you know what happens by email.

@barbarabeeton thanks

Hi, I'm trying to add two images side by side in a resume template like this: overleaf.com/latex/templates/…

Can anyone tell me how I can add images side by side here?

@taritgoswami images are positioned like letters. \includegraphics{file1}\includegraphics{file2} will put them side by side

@DavidCarlisle Ok thanks a lot :)

@egreg I gave you +1 for trying:-)

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@DavidCarlisle The real answer is “use Word”.

@egreg ego and spite, apparently. We could blame @UlrikeFischer.

@egreg ???

@JosephWright see comments in the post tex.stackexchange.com/questions/523453/…

@DavidCarlisle ;-). I'm just trying to create a push request on latex2e for longtable - I hope I don't mess it up ...

@UlrikeFischer does it fix all these? htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.githubusercontent.com/…

@DavidCarlisle no, only my issue - small steps first ;-)

@UlrikeFischer I should probably take that and the patch from Donald A in gnats from last century that fixes the stretch/shrink calculation of remaining space if there s a real float already on the page, at least get those in by 20200202 (I think I will intentionally miss this weeks -dev release though, unless you think this should go out now?)

@DavidCarlisle up to you. It don't think that it matters much. BTW: I remarked that your version and the latex one differs now quite a lot (and for some reason my diff showed me that I added a \color@endgroup that I didn't add)

@UlrikeFischer by "my version" you mean the draft of v5 in dctex/longtable?, yes there are some more or less experimental changes that I started with but haven't touched for a couple of years. If I get back to it I'm not sure if I would start from there, or from v4 in the 2e repo or just wait for @JosephWright to do l3tables

@DavidCarlisle well there is a relevant research section in our document ...

@DavidCarlisle why do I get a test failure? ! Font T2A/cmr/m/n/10=larm1000 at 10.0pt not loadable: Metric (TFM) file not found.

and atveryend.sty not found ;-(

@UlrikeFischer because you broke something? fails locally or on travis, and which test?

@DavidCarlisle travis, travis-ci.org/latex3/latex2e/jobs/634417702 and travis-ci.org/latex3/latex2e/jobs/634417703

the second failure probably means that one should install atveryend. But I'm at lost what is the problem with the first.

@UlrikeFischer the fonts are made from stuff in the texlive lh package which seems to be installed by the latex2e/support/texlive script...

@DavidCarlisle My best compliments for your 2000 bronze medals.

Good evening everybody. Hiiiiiiii.

@UlrikeFischer actually I don't see where the mf comes from at the moment the mf gets made locally, for me here it is

$ more /home/davidc/.texlive2019/texmf-var/fonts/source/lh/lh-t2b/lbrm1000.mf
input fikparm;

@UlrikeFischer but what put the mf source there in my texmfhome area...

@UlrikeFischer running it locally

@DavidCarlisle I'm trying to remember which texlive updates we had in the last days.

@DavidCarlisle that works for me, at least the one test which seems to fails on travis.

I see Frank thinks my code is all wonderfully transparent and in need of no further documentation but the one line you added is obfuscated and needs further clarification.

@UlrikeFischer passes here, but doing a tlmgr update to try again

@DavidCarlisle well the problem with local systems is that normally tfm-files are already somewhere. The question is why they aren't created/installed/whatever on travis.

@UlrikeFischer oh so something useful came out of that, I now have:

[25/25, 03:11/03:13] update: tikzducks [451k] (50840 -> 53312) ... done

@DavidCarlisle the really useful accessory isn't there:

@UlrikeFischer concealed package slicing weapon revealed at airport x-ray?

@DavidCarlisle how else can one smuggle it now into great britain?

@UlrikeFischer now it's easy, after this month don't even want to think about it

@DavidCarlisle ducks can swim ...

@UlrikeFischer stop duck migrations was one of the main tenants of the leave campaign, so I'm not sure they'll let you just swim here.

@UlrikeFischer ! LaTeX Error: File ltxcmds.sty' not found.`

@DavidCarlisle where?

@UlrikeFischer your dpc8 branch on travis

@DavidCarlisle In which of the both failures? I thought in the documentation branch it was atveryend which was the problem.

@UlrikeFischer but what I don't understan is why it's failing there but the builds on develop are passing if they are using the same cached texlive installation

@UlrikeFischer it was and it got further and now it wants ltxcmds.

@UlrikeFischer travis-ci.org/latex3/latex2e/jobs/634470180

@DavidCarlisle yes I add atveryend, I will add ltxcmds.sty. But I don't understand the failures either, it passed two days ago. Could anything have deleted an existing cache?

@UlrikeFischer I'm tempted to delete the one in develop and see if it rebuilds travis-ci.org/latex3/latex2e/caches

@DavidCarlisle hm, it stopped at kvsetkeys.sty ;-(. Where is the list of packages?

@UlrikeFischer odd thing is the doc test failed in the branch but it passed in the pr.

@UlrikeFischer hopefully you don't need all of these

well I guess we don't want all so I should better do it one-by-one.

@UlrikeFischer the usual response when people have had to update travis configs in that way is to blame @UlrikeFischer for the oberdiek split. Does that plan work for you?

@HenriMenke ^^^

@DavidCarlisle sounds like a plan. I don't understand travis - it showed me that "909" passed and then suddenly the number did go back to 908 and it failed.

Well perhaps the "pull request" travis run that passed uses the develop cache.

@UlrikeFischer yes I think that's it

@UlrikeFischer but why on develop when it does an update oberdiek doesn't it uninstall the split out packages?

@DavidCarlisle I don't know. It is a bit disturbing. I installed now letltxmacro but will go to bed now and look again tomorrow afternoon ...

@UlrikeFischer OK thanks, I Could add some more if it still fails?

@UlrikeFischer intcalc missing:-) (good night I'll do some...

@DavidCarlisle sure you are invited to the party ; -) I wonder how to repair the missing tfm. Add the manually?

@UlrikeFischer not sure how that ever got missing, surely maketexmf and maketextfm should be there? anyway I have just pushed an update with all the hyperref dependencies (which is basically the list of packages split out last time)