TeX, LaTeX and Friends

marmot

00:55

@egreg It's all yours.

JouleV

03:01

-1

Q: I want to make a picture in physics with TikZ. Can you help me?

A similar example: \documentclass[tikz]{standalone} \usetikzlibrary{positioning} \begin{document} \begin{tikzpicture}[ force/.style={>=latex,draw=blue,fill=blue}, axis/.style={densely dashed,gray,font=\small}, M/.style={rectangle,draw,fill=lightgray,minimum size=0.5cm,thin}, ...

Once more we can see the difference of LaTeXish diagrams and Wordish diagrams.

marmot

04:19

@JouleV Yes, but you need to understand that the word user does not have much time. ;-)

manooooh

05:15

@DavidCarlisle ???, ???

manooooh

06:37

@CarLaTeX <3

@CarLaTeX wanna play Pinturillo a little? :D

CarLaTeX

@manooooh give me the number

manooooh

@CarLaTeX oh yeahhhhh

@CarLaTeX Number 5999, pw 123

@JouleV @UlrikeFischer wanna join to us??

cis

07:49

Does anyone know: how long are the pictures posted here available?

JouleV

@cis Where did you take the image from?

cis

@JouleV Öhm, from my harddrive.

cis

08:08

No matter, I found a methode via google-drive: <code>https://drive.google.com/uc?id=<PIC ADRESS> </code>
https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1u8rOlmGiN0sr8D6ZVFDyZxhuLYe4DpyL

JouleV

@cis No, I mean where do you find such "no longer available" pictures in SE?

cis

@JouleV Nice pictures ;)

@JouleV I looked in the first 5 pages of this chatroom.

JouleV

@cis They are Wordish. I dislike them.

CarLaTeX

08:38

@barbarabeeton Without b's Barbara becomes arara (@PauloCereda)!

6

Paulo Cereda

09:00

@CarLaTeX ooh

Kurt

09:31

@JouleV Reviewing answer tex.stackexchange.com/a/482226/16550 you oversaw that biblatex is needed for the given solution, the OP of the question only mentioned to use bibtex ...

Paulo Cereda

10:46

@mickep Yesterday I went to my local post office to learn more about the customs fee to get my ducks out of custody. :) They gave me an interesting explanation on how the Brazilian postal service is now taking place of the current federal service for customs clearance on certain things, and that's why the process is being charged. Although the charge was a surprise for me, the clearance was very fast, which didn't happen with the official counterpart (sometimes it took months to clear a parcel).

@mickep So I am "okay" in paying an extra fee for them to clear my parcels as fast as they could (it took just two or three days) and get my international packages as soon as possible. :)

Ulrike Fischer

11:00

@PauloCereda which ducks?

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer I got me four ducks. :)

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda special ducks?

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer a farmer, a pirate, Einstein and...

I forgot, hold on!

Oh statue of liberty!

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda liberty looks a bit greenish - I hope she is not ill.

Paulo Cereda

11:17

@UlrikeFischer oh no

egreg

11:59

mickep

12:15

@PauloCereda Ohh, nice!

Paulo Cereda

13:14

@mickep ooh

@egreg ooh

samcarter

13:50

@PauloCereda Oh, the Albert Quack duck looks great!

@PauloCereda How will the tikzshark survive outside of the water on dry paper?

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter ooh a conundrum

@samcarter tikzhai has magic :)

Ulrike Fischer

4

^^^ The Bär is back home from the Dante meeting and has lots to tell ...

@samcarter where are the picducks?

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooh

samcarter

14:09

@UlrikeFischer The audience seems to be thrilled from the stories the bear brought back!

@UlrikeFischer At the moment they are in the dev version of the tikzducks, but I wonder if it would be better to combine them with the picmarmot and ship them as a standalone package? What do you think?

@PauloCereda a shark with magic sound even more dangerous than a normal one!

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter oh no

Ulrike Fischer

@samcarter a picturemodalism-package would be fine - you could recruit @DavidCarlisle as a co-author ;-)

samcarter

14:28

@UlrikeFischer this approach might lead to pineapple pi(c)zza

Jonas Stein

Hi, I see a strange effect when using the bm package in a large document, but I can not reproduce it with an MWE. Any ideas what I should test systematically?
`$D_{12} \propto \lambda \cdot \bm{x} \times \bm{r}_{12}$` renders as

Ulrike Fischer

@samcarter Real art isn't always nice

Jonas Stein

I compile with lualatex, use koma and have many packages, such as ams* hyperref

Ulrike Fischer

@JonasStein move it directly behind begin{document} and if the problem persist you know it is something in the preamble. Then start to reduce the preamble.

Jonas Stein

good idea

Ulrike Fischer

14:32

@JonasStein does lualatex means also unicode-math? I don't think that bm works well with it.

CarLaTeX

@samcarter Here you can find a pineapple pi(c)zza: tex.stackexchange.com/a/390382/101651

Jonas Stein

this is what it looks like behind \begin{document}

Ulrike Fischer

@JonasStein well then move it forward until you find the point where it starts to get wrong.

Jonas Stein

strange... I have no experience with the bm package yet. Is it considered rather experimental?

David Carlisle

@JonasStein must be user error

Jonas Stein

14:36

@UlrikeFischer it is already wrong it should have x and r_12

David Carlisle

@JonasStein it's been part of the required core latex2e distribution from the start but it doesn't really work well with unicode tex, and not at all if you don't have a bold math font

Jonas Stein

is there any package which it is incompatible with?

Ulrike Fischer

@JonasStein ? your second image doesn't show "section". So it is now wrong in a different way?

David Carlisle

@JonasStein just show an example, it would be easy to debug.

samcarter

@CarLaTeX My fear seems to be justified :)

David Carlisle

14:38

@samcarter make you feel hungry already?

Jonas Stein

@DavidCarlisle I use utf-8 and lualatex so this could be a source of trouble

Ulrike Fischer

@JonasStein the question is which fonts you are using in math.

David Carlisle

@JonasStein it works in a limited way with luatex (depends which fonts you are using) but mostly isn't needed if using opentype math fonts as there are bold characters within the font already.

Jonas Stein

I use the default fonts and have the ams packages (i think they introduce fonts too?)

and I have \usepackage{fontspec}

for utf-8 in luatex

David Carlisle

@JonasStein in that case bm should work same way as in pdftex, but if you don't want to show any example I can't debug.

Ulrike Fischer

14:42

@JonasStein this here works fine with lualatex:

\documentclass{book}
\usepackage{amsmath,bm}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\begin{document}
$D_{12} \propto \lambda \cdot \bm{x} \times \bm{r}_{12}$
\end{document}

Jonas Stein

I did not manage to prepare a MWE yet. But I will try

Ulrike Fischer

Jonas Stein

yes with these work for me too

it must be something in my very long preamble

Ulrike Fischer

@JonasStein then it is easy: find the relevant difference ;-)

Jonas Stein

;-)

I will be back when I have a MWE

Paulo Cereda

14:43

@UlrikeFischer it's the hai!

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer add \def\bm#1{section} to the preamble.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle doesn't work for the second picture. There must be some "change the next \bm in an arbitrary way"-command lurking around.

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda important BBC News item

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle OH MY

This is a mean fish

Jonas Stein

15:01

@DavidCarlisle this is a MWE with preamble: dpaste.de/SmyE and tex file:

dpaste.de/m1OQ

David Carlisle

@JonasStein grumble off site links:(

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle quack

Ulrike Fischer

@JonasStein try to reduce this. biblatex and graphicx e.g. quite probably are irrelevant.

@DavidCarlisle Frank announced the utf8andspace stuff at Dante and I think some are already using it. I now wonder if texlive should add command_line_encoding=utf8 to the windows texmf.cnf by default.

Jonas Stein

ok will do. brb

David Carlisle

@JonasStein it's not even close to be being "minimal"

@JonasStein also I get

! LaTeX Error: Missing \begin{document}.

See the LaTeX manual or LaTeX Companion for explanation.
Type  H <return>  for immediate help.
 ...

l.2     

?

Ulrike Fischer

15:07

@JonasStein Don't split the stuff in two files. Also \input{luapreamble} is not known, you will have to replace this by the content.

David Carlisle

is this your example if I delet unrelated stuff)?

\documentclass[paper=a4,fontsize=12pt, twoside, BCOR=8mm]{scrbook}
\usepackage{fontspec}% for lualatex
\usepackage{polyglossia}
\setdefaultlanguage{english}
\setotherlanguage{german}
\usepackage[autostyle=true,german=quotes]{csquotes}
\usepackage{bm}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\begin{document}
$D_{12} \propto \lambda \cdot \bm{x} \times \bm{r}_{12}$
\end{document}

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda That's a MFE - mean fish example.

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer ooh

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer german...

this works

\documentclass[paper=a4,fontsize=12pt, twoside, BCOR=8mm]{scrbook}
\usepackage{fontspec}% for lualatex
\usepackage{polyglossia}
\setdefaultlanguage{english}
%\setotherlanguage{german}
\usepackage[autostyle=true,german=quotes]{csquotes}
\usepackage{bm}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\begin{document}
$D_{12} \propto \lambda \cdot \bm{x} \times \bm{r}_{12}$
\end{document}

@JonasStein if you got a tex error (as in the code above) you should have asked about the error not shown an image of the output, it is never worth looking at the typeset result after any error.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle polyglossia - move the setotherlanguage. I bet it works with babel.

David Carlisle

15:16

@JonasStein the german option makes " active (so breaks any use of hex numbers) move that setting later.

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon: according to the ZOI rule, we must have infinite moderators. :)

Zero one infinity rule

The Zero one or infinity (ZOI) rule is a rule of thumb in software design proposed by early computing pioneer Willem van der Poel. It argues that arbitrary limits on the number of instances of a particular entity should not be allowed. Specifically, an entity should either be forbidden entirely, only one should be allowed, or any number of them should be allowed. Although various factors outside that particular software could limit this number in practice, it should not be the software itself that puts a hard limit on the number of instances of the entity. "Allow none of foo, one of foo, or any...

Ulrike Fischer

@JonasStein or use babel instead of polyglossia. \usepackage[ngerman,english]{babel} works fine.

@DavidCarlisle \nonstopmode is in the code too.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer that was the first thing I removed:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh skills

@DavidCarlisle you are really good at TeX

<3

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda it's easy removing things if you use a proper editor.

Paulo Cereda

15:24

@DavidCarlisle hmpf

egreg

6

David Carlisle

@egreg yawn

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Envy?

David Carlisle

@egreg you are the one that is green

Paulo Cereda

@egreg ooh

@DavidCarlisle ooh

baxx

15:39

not sure if there's anything straightforward to sort this : tex.stackexchange.com/questions/482276/…

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle ;-) That's one thing that is difficult with regression-test - if you want to see what the test is doing you have to disable the nonstopmode first.

Skillmon

15:56

@PauloCereda we don't have to have infinite moderators, but we should allow infinite moderators according to that rule. Though I disagree with that rule. There are algorithms which only work as intended because there is an overflow and there certainly are entities which have to be limited to an arbitrary number greater 1. E.g. when programming a game, there is no sense in allowing arbitrary many entities of rounds in a clip.

@PauloCereda but if the moderators are Sith, we should only have 2.

Sebastiano

Good afternoon.

@egreg Hi, and good afternoon :-), my sincere compliments. The green is a color lucky ("colore fortunato).

1

A: Several mode to write the symbol of a vector

Response to @Bernard's comment+ADDENDUM: I prefer the \usepackage[b]{esvect} option but I don't think it affects the mtpro2[lite] package; for the bold arrow it doesn't work. At the contrary, it only makes me the letter in bold. \documentclass[12pt]{book} \usepackage{newtxtext} \usepackage[u...

@egreg Excuse me very much for this intrusion into your work. There is a possibility in your opinion to have a bold not using bm package. In my very long code this package creates conflict and does not process the file.

@egreg I always thank you in advance.

egreg

16:18

@Sebastiano A bold what?

Sebastiano

@egreg Hi, I'm just looking at this now by accident. The number one red in the top right has not come up. I see you've pinged well.

@egreg the bold of the top arrow. That is, I would like to use the option \usepackage[b]{esvect} to have the normal arrow without bold and with bold not using the bm package.

egreg

@Sebastiano Sorry, but I find the arrow notation for vectors very old-fashioned and typographically unsound.

Sebastiano

JouleV

@Sebastiano How can you know that I'm good at math? I'm actually not good at it at all :)

Sebastiano

@egreg Your instructions are also important with regard to aesthetics. As you can see, I have not received your message.

@JouleV Hi :-)

JouleV

16:33

@Sebastiano Good-day!

Sebastiano

@JouleV Yes of course.

JouleV

@Sebastiano Uhm now answer my question ;-)

egreg

@Sebastiano The notifications for messages in chat are delayed by a few minutes.

Sebastiano

@JouleV In short, these days are bad for me :-( I have neck pains and I'm here at the computer.

JouleV

@Sebastiano I'm sorry for that. But pain is of course not a reason for your apology :) and I still can't understand it yet.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

16:35

@Sebastiano Ouch. I bet being at the computer does not help with the neck pain.

Sebastiano

@egreg is it my problem or the site's?

egreg

@Sebastiano The site's.

Sebastiano

@JouleV Apologies are due because I asked you a private question.

JouleV

@Sebastiano What is that question?

Sebastiano

@egreg Thank you very much with lot of heart

@HaraldHanche-Olsen hi, wait.

@JouleV I see the list of the chat in the your link.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I'm giving myself diclofenac, muscoril and Jarapp injections. But it hurts. Here in Sicily there is wind but it's hot. What do I do? Do I stay home or go out? :-(

JouleV

16:39

@Sebastiano But that is not even a question...

Sebastiano

@JouleV For me yes.

JouleV

@Sebastiano So... what is the question at last? You did not ask me a question, but you apologized for asking a question (ohh my brain!). Anyway I don't know what the question is, but I don't think you have to apologize anyone for asking a question...

Sebastiano

@JouleV Since you're great with tikz-pgf and it takes reasoning, I thought you were good at math. I sometimes tell my students that several countries abroad are becoming better at math than we Italians.

@JouleV The question was, were you good at math? I don't generally ask private questions of others. I apologized earlier if you might be offended if I asked you a private question. That's because I have done my apologizes.

David Carlisle

Dec 11 '16 at 22:56, by David Carlisle

@Sebastiano stop apologising all the time:-)

3

JouleV

@Sebastiano Oh, I understand it now. In fact, I don't really think TikZ has something to do with difficult maths. Even coordinate calculations are done automatically by calc, for example.

Sebastiano

16:45

@DavidCarlisleyou're right, but I barely know Joule. That's the way I am.

Jonas Stein

@DavidCarlisle yes, thats it

Sebastiano

@DavidCarlisle David, if you see, it's been two years and I haven't apologized since.

Jonas Stein

should bm be one of the first packages? Would it be possible to add a warning in bm like "Error, load before xyz"

Sebastiano

@JonasStein Hi, and welcome

JouleV

@Sebastiano As for "several countries abroad are becoming better at math than we Italians", I don't agree. We have different educational system, different textbooks, so how can we compare a student good at arithmetic with a student good at geometry?

@Sebastiano You are becoming overpolite I think :))

Ulrike Fischer

16:49

@JonasStein the error is in polyglossia and its german module. It shouldn't make " active in the preamble. Use babel, it does it better.

Jonas Stein

Hi @Sebastiano

I use polyglossia, because I have read many times on tex.sx that it is much better than babel.

I do not know much about the internals of both

I remember a question on meta: "Why do so few users file bug reports"

Ulrike Fischer

@JonasStein it is not. At least not for the languages you seem to use.

Jonas Stein

I had never found out, that this is a bug in polyglossia.

Ulrike Fischer

@JonasStein I have filed quite a number of polyglossia bugs in the last years and none of them have been resolved. babel on the other side is actively maintained.

Jonas Stein

but if I just load bm before polyglossia, it should work fine, right?

@UlrikeFischer that is sad.

Ulrike Fischer

16:56

@JonasStein yes for this error. But the active quote can harm other packages too. So the better solution (if you want to stay with polyglossia) is to load the german language as late as possible.

Jonas Stein

ok I will look into babel and see how much work it is to switch. Somehow I have the bad feeling to hear shortly after "switch back to polyglossia, babel is full of bugs"

thank you all very much for tracking down my bug.

github.com/reutenauer/polyglossia/issues oh the list is long

Ulrike Fischer

@JonasStein this is the babel list: github.com/latex3/latex2e/…;

manooooh

@DavidCarlisle concerning to this comment look at the minus sign (with + also works):

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}

\newenvironment{system}
{\[\left\lbrace\aligned}
{\endaligned\right.\]\ignorespacesafterend}

\begin{document}
Example:
\begin{system}
&x+y=2\\&+x=2
\end{system}

Cases:
\[\begin{cases}
x&\text{if $x>0$,}\\
-x&\text{if $x\leq0$,}
\end{cases}\]

\end{document}

Ulrike Fischer

@manooooh Use {-x} to hide the minus.

Sebastiano

@JouleV Even if you have different school systems I generally read and see the statistics.

@UlrikeFischer @manooooh Good afternoon from Sicily.

manooooh

17:07

@DavidCarlisle concerning to the second comment, I did not mean "Change amsmath by mathtools" but "Add mathtools" (I forgot to say that you need to compile this example):

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{mathtools}

\newenvironment{system}
{\left\lbrace\aligned}
{\endaligned\right.\ignorespacesafterend}

\begin{document}

\begin{align*}
\left(\begin{array}{ccc|ccc}\boxed1&1&0&1&1&0\\0&0&1&0&0&1\\1&-1&0&-1&1&0\end{array}\right)&\sim\left(\begin{array}{ccc|ccc}1&1&0&1&1&0\\0&0&1&0&0&1\\0&-2&0&-2&0&0\end{array}\right)\\
&\implies\begin{system}&x\\&y\end{system}
\end{align*}

\end{document}

If we comment the line \usepackage{mathtools} then no errors:

@Sebastiano good afernoon to you too, Sebas!

Ulrike Fischer

@manooooh Use {\begin{system}&x\\&y\end{system}}

manooooh

@UlrikeFischer yes, that worked thanks! uhm.. well.. it seems a hard work. Could it be done automatically?

@UlrikeFischer that worked

Jonas Stein

The babel bugs are all bright red ;-)

was my bug the same like this one? github.com/reutenauer/polyglossia/issues/95

Ulrike Fischer

@manooooh well I do find the idea to use aligned here a bit odd. It implicitly assumes that after the & is a binary symbol. I would probably use an array:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}

\newenvironment{system}
{\[\left\lbrace\array{@{}l}}
{\endarray\right.\]\ignorespacesafterend}

\begin{document}
Example:
\begin{system}
x+y=2\\-x=2
\end{system}
\end{document}

@JonasStein no you would run into such problems with babel too. In the document both set " to something active.

Jonas Stein

should I open a bug for it then?

Ulrike Fischer

17:23

@JonasStein there is already an issue: github.com/reutenauer/polyglossia/issues/81

manooooh

@UlrikeFischer thanks! I think the line spacing is a little less than the system, I think using a command that changes the line spacing of array would work, but I do not want to change it globally but in this particular new environment

Ulrike Fischer

@manooooh well then change \arraystretch in the environment.

egreg

18:01

@manooooh The delights of TeX alignments. :-)

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{mathtools}

\newenvironment{system}
  {{\ifnum`}=0\fi\left\lbrace\aligned}
  {\endaligned\right.\ifnum`{=0\fi}}

\begin{document}

\begin{align*}
\left(\begin{array}{ccc|ccc}
  \boxed{1}&1&0&1&1&0\\
  0&0&1&0&0&1\\
  1&-1&0&-1&1&0
  \end{array}
\right)
&\sim
\left(\begin{array}{ccc|ccc}
  1&1&0&1&1&0\\
  0&0&1&0&0&1\\
  0&-2&0&-2&0&0
  \end{array}\right)
\\
&\implies\begin{system}&x\\&y\end{system}
\end{align*}

\end{document}

Skillmon

18:21

@CarLaTeX I can understand your take on Star Wars. The OT is so much better, but still the prequels are fun to watch (though some dialogues are really badly written).

David Carlisle

@manooooh adding or replacing it is the same thing as mathtools loads amsmath so specifying mathtools is same as specifying both

CarLaTeX

@Skillmon I'm a purist, I think there's no more poetry in the other movie :)

Skillmon

@CarLaTeX well, I'm really disappointed with the sequels, love the OT and can enjoy the prequels. I'm too young, so didn't see any movie of the OT in the theatres and the sequels were the first SW movies I could watch in theatre (and I watched all of them multiple times in theatre).

David Carlisle

@egreg the best sort of grouping construct:-)

CarLaTeX

@Skillmon I saw the first movies at the cinema, I was a teenager at that time :)

Paulo Cereda

18:38

@Skillmon oh :(

Skillmon

18:55

@CarLaTeX now I'm a bit envious.

CarLaTeX

@Skillmon LOL

Skillmon

@CarLaTeX I mean I was so stunned by the original Star Wars films that I'm a fan up to this date (having a Yoda-carpet in my bedroom) and I was so happy that there were new movies in theatre of it that I watched those multiple times (overlooking all the small issues the prequels have).

CarLaTeX

19:10

@Skillmon I watched them multiple times, too! :)

yo'

20:41

@barbarabeeton @PauloCereda I've been accepted to the 3-year church music seminar.

4

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle ^^^ found on FB

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX good plan

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle LOL

@DavidCarlisle I like the chairman of your Parliament, he's a very funny man, he seems Italian :)

Kurt

21:26

@DavidCarlisle How do you see that brexit drama? Why have they so mutch problems to come to a solution?

Sebastiano

Good evening to my friends.

@CarLaTeX LOL LOL. It is true :) but is fantastic the chairman of English Parliament :-)

David Carlisle

@Kurt because there is no solution

Sebastiano

@CarLaTeX I have removed also another my answer with the shade arrow (blue and red).

@DavidCarlisle hi

@CarLaTeX he is a person I think is nice and good-hearted. you can read it from the eyes and the emphasis.

David Carlisle

@Sebastiano well perhaps, although there is a history of alleged abusive conduct... theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/15/…

Kurt

@DavidCarlisle Well, as a german I see two solutions: stay in the EU or go out, with the consequence of problems in ireland and perhaps later with scotland. It seems the later will happen ... Can you tell me why a lot of the british people do not want to stay in EU? Most of the arguments shows before voting to leave where not true (as far as I can see) ...

@DavidCarlisle I'm just interested to hear how an english man see this bad situation. Do not answer if you not want to, that is okay for me ...

David Carlisle

21:45

@Kurt they have (mostly) right wing members of parliament telling them that Britain would be great again if it were not for foreign people and they have a tabloid press that mostly pushes the same story. The fact that almost all the leave arguments before and since the referendum were clearly baseless apparently matters nothing. on Ireland they promised that we could put up trade barriers with Europe while having no barriers with Ireland, and Ireland having no barriers with Europe

Kurt

@DavidCarlisle Well, that with the trade barriers is the problem for me: if ireland is in the eu and britain not ireland has to control on his borders to england. I see there no way out ...

David Carlisle

@Kurt you may think that's obvious, and I wouldn't disagree but people were promised the impossible and voted for it

barbara beeton

@samcarter -- But one could perhaps select a whale shark. They're really big, beautiful, and eat only plankton (not people).

Sebastiano

22:02

@barbarabeeton Good evening from Sicily.

@DavidCarlisle I've read very carefully. If it were really true, I would push it away. I think that the true values of the past have been lost. When the times were good when I was a boy. Maybe because I was carefree.

@DavidCarlisle Now it's getting worse and worse and the ruin in my opinion is the use of social networks, smartphones, etc.. Here you drive your car talking in the air. He thinks that I use a mobile phone from 2000 and many of my friends, relatives and colleagues make fun of me. I'm nowhere on facebook, instangram, etc..

barbara beeton

22:18

@yo' -- That's super! But I expected no less. Congrats!

@Sebastiano -- Good evening to you too. (It's actually getting to be evening here. In a few minutes we will be leaving to go to a concert.)

marmot

22:32

@Sebastiano We marmots are very present on the internet: marmots.org/category/news-from-the-field

yo'

22:45

@barbarabeeton thank you!

David Carlisle

23:05

@yo' is that a full time position?

yo'

@DavidCarlisle it's full time occupation, that's for sure :D

(actually, no. It's 10 Saturdays a year plus about 2 hours a month of private lessons with an organ teacher) (and a lot of homework and home preperation)

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