@DavidCarlisle Ah, so I can start unlearning all that pesky \toks trickery … nice to know! This use of \unexpanded just hadn't occurred to me before.

@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer it's a good job I'm fluent in tikz and French

@DavidCarlisle Of course :)

@DavidCarlisle Which question?

@JosephWright I just acquired ctan update rights to tkz-foo.sty :-) (etex.sty package issues)

@DavidCarlisle Ah!

@DavidCarlisle Still chasing those down!

@DavidCarlisle I wonder if we should talk to CTAN about a more general 'give the team back-up access' option

@JosephWright Vafa mailed me a bug report from a bidi user, but in bidi he was stuffed really as etex.sty got loaded early enough that it switched out the new allocation then tikz, fontspec and bidi between them used up all the registers....

@DavidCarlisle Ooops

@JosephWright \newinsert bites again:-) the "old" way would be for the user to use \reserveinserts before loading the packages but it's not that clear to an end user that etex.sty is loaded at all and of course they can't use \reserveinserts unless they load etex.sty themselves first so just getting tkz-graph not to load etex is best,

@DavidCarlisle Ah, right

@JosephWright May I ask why this post has been deleted? It seems like an answer that satisfied the OP while it is surely not optimal…

@TeXnician Ooops: sorry, must have mis-read a flag

@JosephWright Thanks :)

@TeXnician Ah, I remember: it feels to me more like an edit to the question

@JosephWright Yes, I guess it may be discussed, but basically the OP included his answer (i.e. changing the path) into that "answer post", so it might qualify as an answer. If you deleted it again, you should rollback my rollback to the question though.

@DavidCarlisle $\\$ is wonderful!

@egreg at least $x$$\\$$y$ is a supported use of $$

Do we have a proper test on whether we are in the preamble or not? Have a macro what can be used in preamble and body. But if used in the preamble it can trigger a strange bug in tikz unless I disable a feature in the macro when used in the preamble (this feature is only relevant when used in the document body).

@daleif \ifx\@nodocument \relax ?

@DavidCarlisle that seems to work, thanks. This is a strange bug between \SingleSpacing (which contains a \vskip at the end) and tikz where under some circumstances an \unskip is emitted. Now I'll only emit the vskip in the body instead and even add a starred version to remove it in the doc as well.

@DavidCarlisle Add to Frank's '2e data' list?

@DavidCarlisle — I'm in a bind about "designing" the ctan-post interface. This looks nice enough but I don't know whether to turn it into a supported part of l3build yet: github.com/wspr/breqn/blob/master/build.lua

@WillRobertson I suppose the last line translates as "if it's at all wrong, blame David" ?

@WillRobertson I see you've automated the version string which is nice, any thoughts about a good place to set the announcement text?

oh hang on what's currentchanges...

ohh OK I see @WillRobertson

@WillRobertson @JosephWright I suppose some documentation/examples could suggest some possible filter functions to go with changelog formats, leaving the default being as now to prompt at the terminal, or as Joseph suggested fire up $EDITOR ?

@WillRobertson I might experiment this evening as I'm probably going to have to upload most of these: github.com/tkz-sty so automating might make sense...

@DavidCarlisle — yeah in terms of announcements I'm too lazy to write anything, I just suck in the most recent changes.md text. I mean, I could also put in a blurb there, which would be good. I wouldn't (at this stage) look to enforce that part of the workflow on anyone, neither using changes.md to provide the version number.

also I wonder about

ctan_ctanPath   = package_info.ctanpath
ctan_license    = package_info.licence
ctan_home       = package_info.homepage
ctan_repository = package_info.repository
ctan_bugtracker = package_info.bugtracker

originally (and internally) I had a ctan-post config table but when I pulled it in to l3build I exposed all the fields as top level variables (as all existing l3build settings are that way) but you built a table pulled the fields out to top level variables which then get out back into a table to pass to the post function. That may not be the optimal code path, but maybe it's OK...

@WillRobertson yes it's good to have examples of that though, so if I run a script to upload all 19 repos in rf-tex (or the 9 in tkz-sty) you can do it without it stopping and asking you to write something each time...

@egreg Be careful what you are saying. @DavidCarlisle also refers to pineapple pizza as "wonderful". ;-)

@marmot also marmot-salami pizza

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that's what I was talking about. Probably you are also writing all your documents secretly in Word. ;-)

@marmot You confuse me with @JosephWright

@marmot No. :-) chat.stackexchange.com/…

@egreg Bug report for kantlipsum: is it a feature that \kant*[1]A inserts a space before the A?

@DavidCarlisle I always thought he'd use pages.... ;-)

@daleif It's a hidden feature (read “quirks about space skipping in xparse”)

@daleif Bruno is down to fix it!

@egreg use expl3 syntax: no more worrying about spaces from end of line (automatically mess up white space elsewhere)

@DavidCarlisle Sounds good: we just have to have the right hooks

@DavidCarlisle That was one of my concerns, yes. As I wrote it it seemed more and more natural to have actual package metadata in a table at the top. If that seemed like a good idea in general, I would guess having a ctan table that maps some of those would seem to be better. OTOH I like your simplicity of lots of simple variables.

@DavidCarlisle @WillRobertson The original settings in l3build are 'flat' largely as that made sense given the original aims. I think I'd still do that now: I don't fancy having to write build.sourcefiledir or whatever. But for something like the complexity of CTAN upload, a single table is likely the right approach

@WillRobertson I think a table is probably best: we can do ctan.foo = ctan.foo or <name> somewhere in the upload code

@WillRobertson, @DavidCarlisle One of the team meeting?

@JosephWright yes

@DavidCarlisle Lots for the agenda already

@JosephWright we could discuss licences for the first 59 minutes if that would help?

@egreg hmm, no such information

@DavidCarlisle hahahahaha

@DavidCarlisle :)

@DavidCarlisle I was tempted to mention what I think ... but decided it was best to leave it alone

@DavidCarlisle We are one the same page ... I suspect @WillRobertson and @egreg are too

@JosephWright GPL is a nuisance.

@DavidCarlisle, @WillRobertson What I would like to hammer out is the interface for l3build and uploads, i.e. do we want l3build upload or l3build ctan --upload or ...

@egreg but more understandable than LPPL 1.3

@egreg In the TeX world, certainly not my first choice

@egreg Expect a mail!

@JosephWright while driving in I decided that l3build ctan --upload would probably be best as otherwise the existing ctan command seems strangely named. But I don't want the default to upload so having it do what it does now unless --validate or --upload option given seems good to me

@DavidCarlisle I like it.

@DavidCarlisle, @egreg, @WillRobertson See mail

@DavidCarlisle Hopefully with a pause in there so it does the (lengthy) build of the zip file, then pauses and says "go check the actual zip file that you're happy" then continues with the upload. (Similar to your current interface of asking to proceed.)

@DavidCarlisle Yes, though we could simply rename ctan to something else. I'd imagined having a flag in the build.lua that is false as standard but can be forced using --upload ...

@DavidCarlisle All sounds good to me

@WillRobertson Also a good plan

@daleif Actually that's not an example of quirks about xparse, but it's really a feature: with the *-variant, a space is added at the end of the paragraph instead of \par.

@WillRobertson @JosephWright well actually that's part of the issue do we need an interface to uploading an existing zip and make-and-upload?

@egreg Phew: It's not my fault!

@DavidCarlisle Exactly: we could have an upload target and say ctan --upload is equivalent to l3build ctan && l3build upload

@JosephWright works for me

@DavidCarlisle But we don't have such a separation between build ctan and build check — if we wanted to decouple the building and the upload here it wouldn't make as much sense to keep build and check together. Well, I guess that's why we're talking about it :)

@WillRobertson That's so you *can't make a ZIP without checking the code

@JosephWright Exactly! So you shouldn't be able to upload a ZIP without building it specifically for that purpose.

@WillRobertson That did pass through my mind

@WillRobertson you mean after waiting hour and a quarter for oberdiek bundle to build and ctan upload rejects the upload because Heiko's description text is longer than 3000 characters, I should build it all again so I can write a smaller description?

@DavidCarlisle hahahaha. Yes.

@JosephWright @WillRobertson (although despite that I do always build from scratch, I don't trust zip files that are just lying around) so possibly you are right.

@DavidCarlisle More seriously, could we add some checksum somewhere so upload is possible without a rebuild if certain conditions are met?

@DavidCarlisle (E.g., all source files are unchanged.)

@WillRobertson if we use make instead of l3build then if no sources have changed, rebuilding is a no-op (or is that a politically incorrect observation)

@DavidCarlisle ;)

@DavidCarlisle That's doable, certainly: we avoided any make-like stuff mainly as rebuilding every time is 'safer'

@DavidCarlisle We need to split that up, don't we

@JosephWright I suspect that apart from us and Heiko build times for latex packages are not that great so it's probably not so much of an issue as it seems

@DavidCarlisle That's almost certainly true

@DavidCarlisle And for LaTeX2e/3 it's mainly the test runs that take time

@JosephWright but talking of oberdiek bundle reminds me it isn't currently built via l3build but it's still possible to use the lua upload to post to ctan, so it can be useful to have an upload only option (even if the defaults try to steer people to rebuilding)

@DavidCarlisle Hmm, true

@daleif Wouldn't a syntax like below be nicer for \newcases?

\xnewcases{dcases}{
  leftdel=\lbrace,
  rightdel=.,
  space=1em,
  leftcol=mld, % math, left alignment, display style
  rightcol=mld,
}
\xnewcases{dcases*}{
  leftdel=\lbrace,
  rightdel=.,
  space=1em,
  leftcol=mld,
  rightcol=tl, % text, left alignment
}

@DavidCarlisle ^^^^^ woow, do you even help the last day of the year? That's awesome :). In 2012 I didn't know Word lol, and you earned a gold badge... good job (and for the rest congrats too!)

@manooooh I might have posted that day or I might not:-) (you could check the records) After you post a few answers you earn rep and the occasional badge most days even if you do not use the site.

@DavidCarlisle oh, that's true

@DavidCarlisle evidence that I did not provide enough answers yet.

@egreg probably, if you have the support functions for it. When are we going to start merging most of mathtools into amsmath?

@daleif @barbarabeeton ^^^^

@DavidCarlisle what colors do you expect here:

\documentclass[a4paper]{article}
\usepackage{color}
\usepackage{tabularx}
\renewcommand{\tabularxcolumn}[1]{m{#1}}

\begin{document}
\begin{tabularx}{\textwidth}{c|X|}
blub  & \color{red} blblb \\
\hline
blub & blub \\
\hline
\end{tabularx}
\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle Oh one can blame array:

\documentclass[a4paper]{article}
\usepackage{color}
\usepackage{array}
\begin{document}
\begin{tabular}{c|m{2cm}|}
blub  & \color{red} blblb \\
\hline
blub & blub \\
\hline
\end{tabular}
\end{document}

@DavidCarlisle Ah, already known. I will add a comment to the question.

@UlrikeFischer fixed in sources, yes

@UlrikeFischer a new question somewhere? Frank already commented on that one that it is fixed on GH

@UlrikeFischer ah I hadn't looked at that one, left it for you title suggested it was a miktex install question...

@manooooh That was earned by answering questions on “hidden features” in his packages

@egreg the best source of questions

@daleif I'll send you the code, but it's mainly expl3 for the key-value syntax. There are also a couple of fixes for removing unwanted spaces.

@DavidCarlisle on other news, the luaotfload import scripts seems to work, I had to adapt them, as the set of files is different today but now it looks good. I guess in one or two days (if nothing unterrupts me or some bad error appears) I can sent you something to test. Side remark: Today I had to install the 64bit luatex to be able to handle a cjk font, the first time that 32/64bit made a difference for me ;-)

@UlrikeFischer Sounds good

@UlrikeFischer Ooh

@DavidCarlisle and @daleif -- good question. the first thing to do, i think, would be to identify the items that can be moved from one to the other, without requiring any "workaround" code, i.e., items which simply act directly on the existing amsmath definitions. i think i may be able to identify many of these from the ams bugs list, and will try to do so very soon.

@JosephWright The 64bit-problem was triggered by this question tex.stackexchange.com/questions/451442/…. It probably involves tagging or at least marked content literals and as the OP uses xelatex it needs the interface to \pdfliteral etc ;-).

@UlrikeFischer Right

@UlrikeFischer You've seen the first ones I've added to expl3? I'm after some new hooks to support other areas ...

@UlrikeFischer I might need a little while, but all of this should be doable ... and I think done by the end of the year at worst

@JosephWright No, not really, I was a bit busy last week (but I saw the mails).

@UlrikeFischer Ah, right

@UlrikeFischer I'm using Alexander Grahn's code in pdfbase plus what Till did in pgf, and trying to find a common interface suggestion. Plus pushing for some new hooks in 2e: that's part of a more general overhaul

@UlrikeFischer I should ask if you can pop in to one of the team meetings ;)

@samcarter The tikzlings package seems to attract koala bears ;-)

Is it possible to locally redefine the size of 1in?

@Skillmon Before or after BREXIT? ;-)

@marmot after \begin{BREXIT}.

@Skillmon no (or yes, depending on your definition of redefine) (but mostly no as \mag isn't local)

@DavidCarlisle let pgf display lengths given to it as 1.052in as something different (e.g. output size of 0.5026 or any other zoom factor).

@Skillmon isn't that the same as scaling the final result?

@DavidCarlisle not if it only reads in 1in in a different way.

@Skillmon well you can't do that (unless you grab the argument character by character and scale it by hand)

@DavidCarlisle would have been too nice, wouldn't it. Sometimes it's a pain that DEK created TeX in such a coherent way :)

@DavidCarlisle the scaling by hand was an option I'd like to not undergo.

@Skillmon it's trivial, you just ask a question and tempt Bruno to answer.

@DavidCarlisle the question is already asked, but how do we lure Bruno into it?

@Skillmon standard hunting procedure, set a trap, then wait

I wonder if people use powerdot for presentations instead of beamer, hmm.

@marmot I really do hope that Brexit is stopped. It can be done.

@JasperLoy it could be, but sadly I doubt it.

@WillRobertson 6 ctan uploads but I ducked out of using ctan-post :-)

@DavidCarlisle I see you have become a duck too like Joseph and Paulo =)

@barbarabeeton Related to tex.stackexchange.com/q/451591/4427, do you have references for why the period is defined as punctuation in \operatorname?

@JasperLoy Me too.

Which seems odd to me that it doesn't just go 'yeah, no idea what that citation is' like if I made a typo like \cite{Minee} when I meant \cite{Mine}

Also, recommendations for a command line tool that works like online2pdf.com ? Or is there one?