TeX, LaTeX and Friends - 2018-04-01

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12:08 AM

@AlanMunn, thank you. I've searched but no results.

@CroCo It seems kind of specialized, so it's not that surprising that nobody has.

12:59 AM

@AlanMunn, yes it is.

2 hours later…

2:53 AM

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3 hours later…

5:46 AM

@marmot You are obviously not French :)

1 hour later…

7:00 AM

@marmot Nice! The green one could have legs, running. ;)

7:12 AM

@marmot oh you improved my traffic lights ;-). Nice.

2 hours later…

8:53 AM

in Mathematics, 35 mins ago, by morbidCode

Hi guys! I would like to ass: When writing equations using mathjax, what exactly is the difference between inline ($...$) and display ($$...$$) as stated in https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5020/mathjax-basic-tutorial-and-quick-reference?
I am visually impaired and am using a screen reader to read texts. It so happens that my version of my screenreader now reads mathjax content, but it reads inline and display mode the same. I am about to create a new question and this is my first time using mathjax to render math equations. What should I use? Display or inline? Thanks.

@AlanMunn I've commented

9:11 AM

Happy Easter!

Buona Pasqua!

@egreg Grazie! Anche a te!

Is this correct?

@PauloCereda Yes, very good!

@PauloCereda You'll never be as proficient in Italian as @DavidCarlisle. ;-)

@egreg :)

@egreg ooh :D

Christian Hupfer

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CTAN is going mad, with advertising partner www.nsa.gov :D :D

9:22 AM

@PauloCereda Happy Easter to you, too, and to all the TeX.SE friends!

@CarLaTeX <3

@egreg Buona Pasqua, lo dirò in italiano perché non capiresti l'inglese

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: This is the CTAN Inquisition -- our advertising partner NSA has three chief weapons: Observation, Big Data and ... Observation ;-)

@ChristianHupfer :D

@DavidCarlisle Wjesowe Jutry!

Christian Hupfer

9:31 AM

@egreg Polish?

@ChristianHupfer No

Christian Hupfer

@egreg Slowene?

@ChristianHupfer Neither. Polish was nearer.

Christian Hupfer

@egreg It can't be Czech, there are too much vowels in there ;-)

@ChristianHupfer Indeed!

@ChristianHupfer Also Croatian is nice under this respect: Stretan Uskrs

Christian Hupfer

9:37 AM

@egreg: Well, 'Frohe Ostern' then

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@egreg Serbian might be closer?

@ChristianHupfer Surely @DavidCarlisle will tell you what language is “Wjesowe Jutry”

Harald Hanche-Olsen

This page says serbo-lusazio.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen It's Upper Lusatian, well spotted! Also known as Upper Sorbian.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@egreg Well, I googled the phrase. 't wasn't that hard.

9:41 AM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen The same place where I found it.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen google is an infallible source for language information

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@DavidCarlisle its true ;->

Christian Hupfer

@egreg @HaraldHanche-Olsen Sorbian is one of the two legally approved minority languages in Germany, i.e. in Eastern Germany. The other one is Danish, at the border to, well, Denmark...

@ChristianHupfer ooh

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@PauloCereda another one!

Christian Hupfer

9:46 AM

@egreg @HaraldHanche-Olsen @PauloCereda: Just checked it: There are approximately 60000 Sorbs in and about 100000 Danish

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@ChristianHupfer ^^^^^

The sorbs are famous for their easter eggs. Happy Easter to everyone!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@ChristianHupfer In Schleswig-Holstein …

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Harald Hanche-Olsen

@UlrikeFischer Oh, Easter eggs: gocomics.com/nonsequitur

9:55 AM

we have a duck answering questions?

we have a question answering duck?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@thymaro and it's not ducking the issue … whatever the issue may be

10:10 AM

@UlrikeFischer Happy Easter!

@thymaro we have a duck answering questions about everything, including ducks themselves

@PauloCereda ooh! I shall try it with ducky questions!

Happy Easter!

@thymaro you too!

It doesn't have very good ears (my neighbours seem to have very good ears, today, though) and its answers keep a pretty one-dimensional output for me. What language does it speak?

it tells me to speak up a little, but that doesn't do the trick, sadly.

@PauloCereda thanks

10:34 AM

0

Q: Quack overflow on our site

Friends, Some of you might have noticed the presence of a yellow duck in the lower right corner of our site, acting as the fabled Clippy bloke from the Office family. I know there has been a lot of duck-related content in this community lately, to the point of people getting justifiably annoyed ...

3

Andreas Storvik Strauman

11:16 AM

@PauloCereda Can we keep it after also? <3

@AndreasStorvikStrauman I wish we could. :)

Andreas Storvik Strauman

CTAN has a great fools going though!

11:35 AM

@UlrikeFischer Oh, you also have a duck traffic light? I didn't know that! Sorry! Where can I find it?

11:50 AM

@AndreasStorvikStrauman I completely agree. I hit the "I want the add banner" button, but nothing happened. I was disappoint. I deleted the cookie and hit the other button just to restore the balance. :D

Happy Easter to all of you! (Today I got an upvote for an X-mas answer -- weird!)

@marmot chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/43425958#43425958 (Alex helped be to get the loop correctly two answers down. The code is on github.

@UlrikeFischer Yes, I should have remembered that! Sorry again!

12:05 PM

@marmot why are you sorry? I'm quite proud that you liked the idea.

@UlrikeFischer I am sorry that I forgot your post and therefore did not mention it... The ducks in your traffic light look cuter.

Andreas Storvik Strauman

@thymaro I spent nearly 10 minutes looking for hidden psychological ads. Then I looked at the date.

Christian Hupfer

@egreg Yes, what's so funny? The names of the cities and villages are given in two languages there..., like in Wales, I assume...

1:05 PM

@ChristianHupfer Nothing funny, just an example of bilingual sign for a minority language.

@ChristianHupfer In some small parts of Italy we have trilingual signs.

Ladin, German and Italian. But “val Badia” is the same in Ladin and Italian.

This is at the end of Grödnertal (Gherdëina, val Gardena); going left, East bound, you go to Gadertal; going straight, South bound, you go to val di Fassa (val de Fascia in Ladin).

Both passes are over 2000m.

The circuit around the big mountain (Sella) is very well known among cyclists: four passes, the lowest at 1875m: Campolongo, Pordoi, Sella and Gardena.

1:26 PM

@ChristianHupfer By the way, gorgeous places.

1:43 PM

@egreg I've been there: useful that I was equally fluent in all three languages

3

@DavidCarlisle Yes, the key is “equally”. :-)

@egreg mathematical accuracy is important

@DavidCarlisle ooh math jokes

@PauloCereda one more

@DavidCarlisle Did you like the place?

1:48 PM

@egreg yes we had a couple of weeks in val Gardena, ages ago now (just two of us so more than 14 years ago:-) just walking and eating:-)

@DavidCarlisle It's just about 200km from home to that signpost.

google.com/maps/dir/Padova+PD/Fiera+di+Primiero,+TN/…

Christian Hupfer

@egreg I know them, partially.

@DavidCarlisle I'm looking forward to see support of the ladin language in babel.

@mickep use latin there is only one letter difference

In the Vatican the ATM's are in Latin. :)

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And Comic Sans apparently.

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@egreg ^^

1:59 PM

@PauloCereda I'll write immediately to pope Francis.

@ChristianHupfer That road has several scenic points: Pale di San Martino, Catinaccio/Rosengarten, Marmolada and Sella.

In a standard TeX Live install on linux does texhash need to be run with sudo?

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Catinaccio/Rosengarten ^^^

@egreg :)

@AlanMunn It depends on what privileges are needed for writing under /usr/local/texlive

@egreg Yes I know. Does that depend on the linux distro or on how TeX Live was installed or both?

Christian Hupfer

2:19 PM

@CarLaTeX: Responded ...

2:30 PM

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2:48 PM

@AlanMunn If you use a TeX Live coming with the distribution, probably superuser privileges are needed.

Hello! Happy Easter to all!

It's been a long time since I visited this chat, I missed it very much...

@AndreaL. Happy Easter and welcome back!

3:06 PM

@AndreaL. Quack <3

3:16 PM

What would a good name for a key that has the effect to store something for later use instead of using it directly? I thought about store, save, pass, ignore, ignorehere (too long) but I'm not really satisfied with all of them. Has someone a better idea?

@UlrikeFischer archive?

@AndreaL. not bad, I should consider it too.

@UlrikeFischer Or the fancier takein as per "TAKE INto account", or "account". Glad to be of help :)

@UlrikeFischer maybe stash?

@samcarter that's good.

3:31 PM

@UlrikeFischer Inspired by git :)

@samcarter I should have thought about it, I'm sure I had it somewhere in the back of mind poking me that is the word I'm looking for.

@UlrikeFischer rainy day

one update every 21 years:

github.com/davidcarlisle/dpctex/commit/…

4:01 PM

@egreg It turns out it's a Windows TeX Live.

@egreg @PauloCereda Alleluia! :)

@yo' Yay! Christ has risen!

4:18 PM

@yo' Vere Christus surrexit As you know I'm a Roman Catholic. ;-)

@egreg I know :)

@yo' And somebody would say I became a catholic when Latin was the only language spoken around here. ;-)

@egreg I'm surprised you don't follow Jupiter rather than one of these newfangled sects

3

@DavidCarlisle Jupiter is actually Zeus. Those crazy Romans renamed him.

@egreg Oh, I know this sign very well. Many of my friends live there. ;-)

4:31 PM

@marmot :)

@egreg Also in Rosengarten, but they have to share it with invisible naughty dwarfs.

@marmot Full of elves, indeed!

@egreg No elves, only invisible dwarfs. The elves live in Iceland.

@egreg Speaking of Latin/Italian, what would "pomposo" mean for music?

@yo' The same as pompous

4:36 PM

@egreg See here.

@egreg ok thanks, "self-important" make sense to me in this context :D

@marmot That region is full of such legends

Hi @DavidCarlisle, @egreg and @all what does expansion usually means 1) full expansion or 2) one level expansion

@egreg These are not legends. No one ever has seen an invisible dwarf for obvious reasons. ;-)

4:48 PM

@touhami it depends

@DavidCarlisle I know, but what does the word expand means usually ?

@touhami by coincidence, the above comment is more or less how I ended this answer on the possible meanings of "full expansion"

53

A: Advantages and disadvantages of fully expandable macros

I think it is best not to compare the expandable/not expandable distinction to concepts from other languages. The main issues relating to expansion are really particular (some would say peculiar) to the execution model of TeX. TeX has two main modes of operation.All assignments and boxing operat...

@touhami do you mean usually in real life, or usually in tex or usually in questions by people asking what it means or..?

@touhami without more context I don't think your question is answerable.

@DavidCarlisle when you say \foo expand to something , some thing should by 1) full or 2) one level?

@touhami in that answer I mean one level, as the whole point is to explain "full expansion" (and explain that that is not really a defined term)

@DavidCarlisle not in that answer, but usually

5:04 PM

@touhami as I say it depends on the context, do you have an example where it is unclear? (If in doubt I'd assume one step if I was assuming the author understood TeX's expansion model, but in a question or some text taken out of context it could mean either or often mean assignments and other things that are not formally expansions in TeX

@touhami in expl3 docs for example, we carefully document whether things are expandable or not but don't usually document how many expansion steps are required for any effect as that is an implementation detail (that may change)

@DavidCarlisle i am just looking for a good compromise

@touhami ?

@DavidCarlisle as you say it depends, ... i'll write something

@touhami And “expandable” means something else entirely; it does not mean “can be expanded” but rather something like “either has no expansion or does nothing but expand” (can be processed in the “mouth” and does not get to the “stomach”)

@DavidCarlisle \def\foo{foo} \def\bar{\foo} i need to make a convention (if possible) so if foo is the expansion of \bar (expand=full) and i should said explicitly that \foo is one level expansion and vice versa @ShreevatsaR hi

@DavidCarlisle @ShreevatsaR it's just some kind of convention, what people usually mean

5:27 PM

@touhami if it matters I'd always make it explicit how many expansion steps it means so I wouldn't use an unqualified "expands" at all

@DavidCarlisle ok this is what i want, thank you.

@touhami the texbook defines macro definition by saying that \foo is the replacement text of \bar so that is a defined term. "expansion" is just used to describe the process so there is no canonical definition of "the expansion" of a token,

@DavidCarlisle it's just to show :-)

and that's why i am asking of the usuall meaning

@touhami it depends:-)

@DavidCarlisle i'll try to follow your advice :-)

6:32 PM

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle Any idea when TL2018 is expected to be released?

@AlanMunn 9th April is down as the final freeze

@JosephWright Ok. And it reaches the mirrors within a few days from that? Or longer?

@AlanMunn It's usually pretty quick after that

@JosephWright Ok. Thanks.

7:04 PM

@AlanMunn longer, see timetable here tug.org/texlive

@AlanMunn well depends if 21 is a few:-)

7:23 PM

@DavidCarlisle Got it. Thanks.

7:51 PM

@AlanMunn but it does mean we need to get latex to ctan in time for it to be installed there prior to the 9th freeze...

@DavidCarlisle Yes. So carry on. :) I assume it won't be your fault.

@AlanMunn no we can blame @egreg that's why we brought him on to the team

@DavidCarlisle Smart decision.

@egreg strange that there is no TikZ solution at the square compass question already.

8:10 PM

@Skillmon he's already used a superior system, so why would anyone post a tikz version?

@Skillmon For once, I agree with @DavidCarlisle

@PauloCereda The ask the duck thing, was your idea, wasnt it? It needs a close button to close the dialogue.

13

Q: Quack overflow on our site

Friends, Some of you might have noticed the presence of a yellow duck in the lower right corner of our site, acting as the fabled Clippy bloke from the Office family. I know there has been a lot of duck-related content in this community lately, to the point of people getting justifiably annoyed ...

@egreg @DavidCarlisle and now there are two TikZ based answers. One from me. I feel ashamed.

@AlanMunn It doesnt do anything else than saying "speak up please"? Didnt try, so I didnt get it. But nice one.

8:26 PM

@MaestroGlanz I have no idea. I try to ignore ducks.

9:01 PM

What is currently the correct procedure with questions solved in the comments or being problem solved by author elsewhere and stated in the comment? E.g. tex.stackexchange.com/questions/424375/…

@Skillmon Close as off-topic because of non-issue

@egreg @Skillmon Or add an answer explaining the issue, which in this case might be useful?

@AlanMunn @egreg or duplicate of tex.stackexchange.com/questions/361823/…

But it's no real duplicate because of the non-issue thing.

@Skillmon No I don't think it's a duplicate of that really.

@AlanMunn but I don't know the real source of the issue (I never dug into ragged2e)

9:11 PM

@Skillmon Reading it again, it's probably just better to close with the comment.

@AlanMunn which comment? the one of egreg? The question will be auto deleted and any information in comments will be lost if there is no answer.

@Skillmon Yes. I think that's ok.

@AlanMunn then I'm fine with it.

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