TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Johannes_B

6:00 AM

@PauloCereda i don't get the joke :-(

SBM

Good morning/afternoon

CarLaTeX

6:58 AM

@SBM Good afternoon/morning!

Octopus

Morning, i'm trying to switch from TexStudio to TexWorks, is there anything pay special attention to?

CarLaTeX

7:27 AM

@Octopus I don't think there are particular problems, but why do you want to do that switch? Sincerely, I did the opposite, TeXstudio is less rough

Octopus

True, I personally wouldn't want to, it's due to corporate reasons...

CarLaTeX

@Octopus :) (or :()

Octopus

:(

Well, TexWorks is rather TexNOTWorks right now. It just won't stop compiling .log files are empty, no pdf is produced...

Joseph Wright

@Octopus TeXworks is light-weight but normally functional: if you are not getting a .log file then something is wrong very 'early' in the process of running TeX

@Octopus Does everything work from the command line?

David Carlisle

7:47 AM

@Octopus usual reason would be tex is not installed or it is not installed where your editor is configured to look for it. If tex deosn't run, it won't make a log file....

SBM

@CarLaTeX hope everyone had a good day

Octopus

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle It to work using with pdflatex or xelatex without using any additional packages,

Sorry for my bad grammar, it seems to work*

Ohh my god. The error was that there was some wierd character before \end{document}

Thanks for everybodys help, appreciate it!

David Carlisle

@Octopus so there must have been a log file:-)

Torbjørn T.

8:13 AM

@Octopus TeXStudio might have been set up to run in nonstopmode by default, meaning that it will skip past errors and try to make a PDF regardless. TeXworks by default doesn't do that, it will stop at errors, but it should show a panel with that error at the bottom of the program. (Same as Window --> Show Console Output.)

yo'

Morning, everyone!

Damn, why mathpazo changes the text font?! I wanted to post a bug report on TeX Gyre Pagella just to realize that it's not Pagella what I use!

Joseph Wright

@yo' That's what it's supposed to do ...

yo'

@JosephWright yeah, obviously I should have done mathpazo, tgpagella and not the other way around.

Joseph Wright

@yo' :)

yo'

@JosephWright it just surprises me that the package has no option mathonly

@JosephWright and btw, it means that the Palatino version mathpazo uses is bugged :)

David Carlisle

8:28 AM

@JosephWright I see you put the graphics tests back;-) I have a bunch that I never checked in and aren't fully in l3build format I suppose I should try to sort those out and get them checked in (including a small hand written pdf with an interesting collection of bounding/media/page boxes

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Would be good, yes

@DavidCarlisle I think we've sorted all of the issues now ...

yo'

Anyway, probably not the only issue of mathpazo

David Carlisle

@JosephWright I was just thinking of looking at Akira's mail when I saw your reply so I'll see if that resolves itself

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Think it does

@DavidCarlisle I'm going to get back to an L3 implementation of graphics ....

@DavidCarlisle Wondering where that might go: cf. the question about fragile commands/ConTeXt (rewrite the kernel piece by piece?)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright where it would go in the internals or as a user interface? For the latter, if you were feeling brave and/or compatible enough you could just make expl3.tex disable loading of (x)color/graphic[xs] and do something built in...

Joseph Wright

8:42 AM

@DavidCarlisle Working on it :) Thinking first to come up with code level (x)color and graphicx support, then think about some kind of xgraphics package to provide user level support (eventually to cover pgf/picture mode-type stuff as that's 'graphics' too)

@DavidCarlisle I'm wondering if we want/need to start on 'hijacking' existing user functions (see also xbox)

Moriambar

9:19 AM

Dear lord what a queue at gatwick

Joseph Wright

@Moriambar Immigration?

yo'

@Moriambar queue for dropoff, passport, security or takeoff?

@JosephWright oh well, btw, have the Scots already repeated the scexit vote so that they can join the EU themselves? :)

Moriambar

@yo' @JosephWright passports yes. Two hours to board the train

Paulo Cereda

10:18 AM

@UlrikeFischer now I did see it. :) Sorry, the spam filter was being naughty.

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda I got your mail but have to go in a few minutes so can answer only in the evening.

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer oh no worries, I wrote a long email anyway. :)

@Johannes_B the comic strip is actually very random, don't worry. :) I just thought the drawing of a duck visiting a penguin is very cute. :)

David Carlisle

@Moriambar hope you got to the gallery by now! meanwhile data.stackexchange.com/tex/query/685412/bug-no-filter stands at 3868 rows, so if it's 0 by tomorrow that's how many got fixed this week:-)

Joseph Wright

10:44 AM

@yo' 'Indyref2' seems less likely than it did: general election result suggests no increase in support for independence in Scotland

yo'

@JosephWright this comes slightly as a surprise, but it seems to be overly complicated. I would have thought that Scottish separatism would become slightly more popular now

Joseph Wright

@yo' There's a feeling that we may have seen 'peak SNP: they are the largest party in Scotland but saw their share of the vote fall compared to 2015

@yo' Brexit negotiations may of course impact on this

yo'

@JosephWright yeah, there's still long time to go see the consequences, for UK, Scotland and Europe.

btw, one thing that came to someone's mind here: UK was the only major European country to face Hitler. And we're losing this now, somehow.

Joseph Wright

@yo' That is one of the pro-Brexit factors: a sizeable number of people see the EU as a continuation of German expansionism

yo'

@JosephWright wow

Joseph Wright

10:50 AM

@yo' 'Dictator Merkel is a Nazi', etc.

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright oh my

yo'

@JosephWright well, you hear that here as well, of course

I see it the other way around: Germany is the only major country willing to be responsible for something. UK has never taken this part inside EU.

Joseph Wright

@yo' That's perhaps at the extreme but it's part of a narrative that the EU 'tells us what to do', with the implication being that it's an imposed situation rather than something we joined willing and have a hand in

yo'

@JosephWright oh, "losing independence" and "Brussels dictatorship", where have I heard that...

Joseph Wright

@yo' Ah, but for the pro-Brexit people in the UK that's a problem: from their POV each state should look after itself

@yo' :)

yo'

10:52 AM

@JosephWright yeah, with Russia ante portas. No, thanks.

Joseph Wright

@yo' I think every EU government hides behind this when it's a convenient way of doing something unpopular

Johannes_B

@PauloCereda Hola señor pato :-)

yo'

@JosephWright to an extent, yes. But remember, Czech is a nation of "blamers"

Joseph Wright

@yo' Ah, but that's what NATO is for

Paulo Cereda

@Johannes_B Buenos dias, señor penguino!

Joseph Wright

10:53 AM

@yo' This I will take your word for

yo'

@JosephWright :)

@JosephWright that's not enough, economical stability is important, too, IMHO

Paulo Cereda

I didn't want UK to leave the EU, but I don't understand economy in general.

Joseph Wright

@yo' I'll emphasise I'm picking up the argument of the strongly pro-Brexit people here: they view stability in Europe as stemming from NATO as a military alliance but with no pooling of sovereignty, and believe that the EU has harmed economies (see Greece, Spain, Portugal, fishing industry in UK, ...)

@PauloCereda I'm not sure anyone understands the economy: so much is about how people feel so becomes self-fulfilling

@yo' In any case, we are leaving so it doesn't really matter about the arguments!

Paulo Cereda

@JosephWright oh I see. But something I found out in those two opportunities abroad is that Europeans are more free and open to discuss about politics and economy in general. In here, people live under some sort of unspoken, hidden ditactorial law. I know panis et circencis is a global phenomenon, but in Brazil, this thing is quite exaggerated!

yo'

@JosephWright You could equally say many of these harmed themselves. For one, the southern countries well use of the free travel and common currency for travel industry, but weren't able to keep themselves stable. The problem is that people expect the common market to mean less responsibility, but it means "more responsibility and better well-being"

anyway, it's lunchtime, see you later!

egreg

11:26 AM

Greetings from Slovenia

Joseph Wright

@egreg Ooh

@yo' I am familiar with the counter-arguments :) However, the 'leaves' won so ...

David Carlisle

@egreg razvajanja v miru in tišini z hrupnem motorno kolo?

egreg

11:38 AM

@DavidCarlisle Uživanje pokrajino na mirni motocikla

Johannes_B

12:15 PM

@StefanKottwitz @JosephWright @ChristianHupfer @clemens (not pingeable) Two new posts on the LC moderator forum. Thougts welcome.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg ooh

CarLaTeX

@egreg Already in vacation?

Johannes_B

You guys have been extremely unhelpful, if you knew tex this should take you 5 minutes at most to help someone with.

:-( Sad that he knows exactly how uch time it needs.

CarLaTeX

12:32 PM

@Johannes_B The post was removed. What was it about?

Torbjørn T.

@Johannes_B Well, I can understand that he gets a bit frustrated considering the reason given for the initial close vote, which wasn't very, ehm, diplomatic.

@CarLaTeX Reproducing a book layout, essentially.

Johannes_B

@CarLaTeX ^^^^^^^^

@TorbjørnT. Not diplomatic, agreed. But it really is just a do it for me kind of thing.

Paulo Cereda

Meanwhile, cake time!

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda but are you always eating cake?

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX I blame mum for ordering a very large birthday cake. :)

CarLaTeX

12:40 PM

@PauloCereda Is it your birthday today?

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX no, it was two days ago. :)

Torbjørn T.

@Johannes_B True, and I'm not surprised that it got close votes. On the other hand, it might have been a better approach to first provide some useful links (e.g. to the Font Catalogue, questions about titlesec/geometry) first.

@CarLaTeX Anyways, wont be long before you can see it as well, just 802 points left.

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda Oooh I missed it, happy birthday!

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX thanks! <3

CarLaTeX

@TorbjørnT. CarLaTeX: how an (almost) absolute beginner could reach 10k reputation points on TeX.SE :):):)

Torbjørn T.

12:47 PM

@CarLaTeX Likely, the more points you get, the less of a beginner you are. One does tend to learn a few things as time passes here.

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX I post lot of duck references, that's how I did!

:D

CarLaTeX

@TorbjørnT. True, I learnt a lot also while I was answering!

Johannes_B

@TorbjørnT. But it does seem a bit unreasonable now to reopen, just to post a few links. With a bit of research, he will find all those resoources.

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda I earned a lot of points with the tikzducks package question and answer LOL

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX ooh and you won the duck too

Torbjørn T.

12:53 PM

@Johannes_B Undelete, not reopen, but yeah, I wasn't actually suggesting doing that.

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda That's the most appreciate award! BTW, look at the saint of the 22nd of June: it's Prof. van Duck's name-day!

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX ooh

Joseph Wright

2:16 PM

@DavidCarlisle Another issue with the drivers, linked to the difference between \newif and the HO version ...

Christian Hupfer

2:41 PM

@CarLaTeX Answer a lot of tikz - based questions that's what gets rep ;-)

@Johannes_B Not so important for me, sorry -- I am no active participant at LC

Johannes_B

@ChristianHupfer Ok :-)

Stefan Kottwitz

2:52 PM

@ChristianHupfer So more of the fun remains for Johannes and me at L >:-)

Christian Hupfer

@StefanKottwitz There's fun at LC? :D

@StefanKottwitz: Actually, you should remove my site moderator status there -- I am of no use there

Stefan Kottwitz

@ChristianHupfer ok :-) it was for more freedom (any trusted friendly LaTeX user may be mod) and at the time when you had a hiatus here, to keep you involved and busy ;-)

Paulo Cereda

I want to be a duck, is there such rank in LC?

Christian Hupfer

@StefanKottwitz I am busy enough ;-) The next hiatus may come ...

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda As soon as you enter, it will be.

Paulo Cereda

3:00 PM

@StefanKottwitz oi I have an account there.

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda what name?

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda: I saw chocolate pizza today ...

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz cereda, but hey I was just kidding. :)

@ChristianHupfer ooh did you eat it?

latex.org/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=56816

This is the best profile ever.

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Make an educated guess ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer yes

Christian Hupfer

3:07 PM

@PauloCereda Guess again, please ;-)

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda Yes! You see the rank of the top user here? latex.org/forum/…

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY

@StefanKottwitz I updated my signature! <3

Christian Hupfer

Interests:
Take over the world with a duck army ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer ^^ I am a duck, you aren't lalalala

@ChristianHupfer oh no I've been spotted

Stefan Kottwitz

@PauloCereda Luckily not 1000 posts of you with that signature :-)

Christian Hupfer

3:11 PM

@PauloCereda I am a site moderator (yet) and I can see the banned button right to your name ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@StefanKottwitz I will remove that soon. :)

@ChristianHupfer ooh you are mean

Not as mean as @DavidCarlisle though

Stefan Kottwitz

@ChristianHupfer So you found a reason to be mod there

Christian Hupfer

@StefanKottwitz Yes, I wanted at least once to abuse my powers ;-)

Alan Munn

Since we all love pineapple pizza here, I thought I'd pass along this sad news. The creator of it died last week. theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jun/10/…

Stefan Kottwitz

@ChristianHupfer Don't spoil the fun! The rank "Duck" includes the subscription to 10.000 random newsletters.

Paulo Cereda

3:13 PM

@AlanMunn LOL

Christian Hupfer

@StefanKottwitz including a Denial-of-Service attack on @PauloCereda's servers? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

Not LOL because he died, actually.

LOL because of the pizza.

Don't get my LOL wrong.

:D

CarLaTeX

@ChristianHupfer I'm doing that, they are easier to answer :):):)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Yes, that's the fun in life ;-)

Alan Munn

@PauloCereda And this is exactly why I posted this. :) A tricky navigation problem for the haters. :)

Stefan Kottwitz

3:15 PM

@ChristianHupfer Not so bad, rather some 4k Rick Astley videos per day in his mailbox

CarLaTeX

@AlanMunn @DavidCarlisle already posted it!

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn :D

Christian Hupfer

@StefanKottwitz Well, that's a violation of Geneva convention, I think ;-)

Alan Munn

@CarLaTeX Oh, I looked back but didn't see it. I guess it just had a link an no text.

CarLaTeX

@AlanMunn it was addressed to me, I don't remember the text :):):)

Stefan Kottwitz

3:17 PM

@ChristianHupfer That convention is not valid for procrastinating thesis writers. That's the only exception, rarely anybody knows. (since nobody survived Rick Astley treatment)

3

Christian Hupfer

@StefanKottwitz Ah, I forgot that Amendment to the Convention ... my bad

Stefan Kottwitz

@ChristianHupfer \begin{appendix} \section{Lex Paulo Cereda}

Christian Hupfer

@StefanKottwitz So @PauloCereda is a prototype for all procrastinating (thesis) writers? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer I will write that law later. :)

Stefan Kottwitz

@ChristianHupfer Actually the only really serious case.

Christian Hupfer

3:22 PM

@PauloCereda So you declared but will define later ? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer memory allocation.

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Look out of the yard ;-)

CarLaTeX

@AlanMunn Found it: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/38014771#38014771 Indeed, it was only a link :):):)

Alan Munn

@CarLaTeX And the news was overwhelmed by talk of bikinis apparently.

Christian Hupfer

@AlanMunn Well, bikinis are a very important topic

Paulo Cereda

3:26 PM

@AlanMunn Hawaii, bikinis. Context-sensitivity.

CarLaTeX

@AlanMunn Indeed, Copacabana thongs LOL

Alan Munn

@PauloCereda Too high on the Chomsky hierarchy for me.

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn ooh :)

ShreevatsaR

^ Users with the most edits of other users' posts in 2017 data.stackexchange.com/tex/query/685459/… and you can see the actual edits here: data.stackexchange.com/tex/query/685478/…

great job everyone!

4

Torbjørn T.

3:45 PM

@ChristianHupfer Was that meant as a joke?

Moriambar

4:06 PM

@ShreevatsaR I need to edit one more

@DavidCarlisle nice!

@PauloCereda ^^^

lAtExFaN

good afternoon

Joseph Wright

4:23 PM

@lAtExFaN Hello

lAtExFaN

has someone here perhaps another idea into direction of a more robust solution/workaround for my question posted here: tex.stackexchange.com/q/375342/112503?

I would like to debug/analye it further, but don't know how - had already a look into wrapfig.sty (but I mostly do not understand)

egreg

@CarLaTeX Just my Saturday tour

barbara beeton

4:38 PM

@Moriambar -- you and @DavidCarlisle have done a most creditable job. but i do claim some moral standing, since i didn't use a script to do any of the editing. (just hope that the sunday iteration of the databse shows that it's mostly done. i assume that the fact these numbers don't add up to 7,000 means that one page counts only once, no matter how many actual q's or a's on that page were adjusted. if not, something's very fishy.

Alan Munn

@lAtExFaN Both minipage and wrapfig environments mess with \everypar. I'm guessing that this is the source of the problem. But it is just a guess.

lAtExFaN

@AlanMunn thanks for the hint - if so, I think this is to lowlevel to get fixed by me. :-(

CarLaTeX

@egreg Oooh

yo'

@lAtExFaN you just got the good answer from @UlrikeFischer

lAtExFaN

4:57 PM

@yo' ahh I see. Good explanation - a workaround I can live with (better than with the previous one)

yo'

@lAtExFaN the manual correction? That's only acceptable if you've got 10 minutes to the deadline!

lAtExFaN

it's inacceptable

yo'

@lAtExFaN well, you've obviously never met this sort of problems short before a deadline :-)

lAtExFaN

no, never ever

:-)

yo'

@UlrikeFischer You'll need a starred \lipsum* to demonstrate it well, though :-) (I'm deleting my comment now)

lAtExFaN

5:05 PM

@UlrikeFischer thanks a lot - you saved the deadline (<-- yo' ;-))

@all thank you, too and have a nice weekend!

bye

egreg

5:41 PM

@PauloCereda @CarLaTeX Tour ended. Carniola is very nice. Had a good ice-cream at Canale d'Isonzo (Kanal)

Joseph Wright

tex.meta.stackexchange.com/posts/7317/revisions

:)

egreg

@JosephWright Well done

Skillmon

5:56 PM

Is there a (reasonable) way to detect if a macro is called at the beginning of a sentence and if it is capitalize the first letter?

Alan Munn

@Skillmon I suspect it won't be very reliable. Packages like cleveref and natbib and biblatex for example provide initial capital versions of their macros for exactly this purpose, so if they don't do it automatically I would bet it can't be done reliably.

Skillmon

@AlanMunn thank you for the fast reply.

CarLaTeX

@egreg I've just googled it, Carniola's really lovely!

egreg

8:37 PM

@CarLaTeX Inner Carniola, to be precise.

egreg

8:51 PM

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle Can you check this? tex.stackexchange.com/questions/375458 The overlay gets misplaced with XeLaTeX. Can it depend on the new graphic drivers?

CarLaTeX

@egreg I didn't know that place :)

Joseph Wright

@egreg I get the same result with the older xetex.def as with the current one (simply swapping to TL'16), so I think not

yo'

@egreg Please, how would you write biblical citations? (Especially considering spacing) Would you use short spaces anywhere in Mt 7:1--6, 24--27, Lk 6:46--49?

egreg

@yo' Knuth writes Matt.~19\thinspace:\thinspace3--9

yo'

@egreg ok thanks, that's a good reference :-)

However, in Czech, it's almost obligatory to use the 2--3-letter shorthands... :-/

egreg

9:03 PM

@CarLaTeX I reached Ljubljana from Postojna (Postumia), then wandered through the mountains with an approximate West direction until getting to Most Na Soči (S. Lucia d'Isonzo). The Soča (Isonzo) valley is one of my preferred places. I did it a few times from Gorizia to the sources of the river, then the Vršič (Moistrocca) pass to Kranjska Gora (or backwards).

From Kranjska Gora to Tarvisio is a short length. You can do it via Fusine or Austria. Also Ljubljana to Kranj and then Klagenfurt is a nice tour

@CarLaTeX Not me VVVVV

Triple Black: Auffahrt Vrsic Pass - Vršič-Pass - Passo della Moistrocca - Werschetzpass

►

CarLaTeX

@egreg Did you visit the caves in Postumia? I'm watching the video :)

egreg

@CarLaTeX Not yet. One day I'll stop there.

@CarLaTeX 50 hairpin turns: 26 on the North side, 24 on the South side.

CarLaTeX

9:19 PM

@egreg I see. I'm a bit afraid of the hairpin turns, I'm not enough brave to drive on them...

egreg

@CarLaTeX As you see in the video, the ones on the North side have cobbles.

CarLaTeX

@egreg Just to make the trip easier?

egreg

@CarLaTeX And, yes, you find cows and sheep.

CarLaTeX

@egreg More and more difficult :)

egreg

@CarLaTeX That's for avoiding problems with ice in the winter. There's a big difference between the two sides as far as the pavement is concerned: always more ruined on the North side.

CarLaTeX

9:31 PM

@egreg Of course! :)

egreg

@CarLaTeX The South side is called Trenta valley; last year I had yummy čevapčiči near the village of Soča.

CarLaTeX

@egreg What is čevapčiči?

egreg

Ćevapčići

I ćevapčići sono un piatto a base di carne trita, variamente speziata, tipico della cucina dei paesi della penisola balcanica. Sono ampiamente diffusi anche in parte del Nord-Est italiano (nelle province di Trieste, Gorizia, Udine), dell'Austria e degli altri territori confinanti con l'ex Jugoslavia. == Caratteristiche == Si presentano come polpettine cilindriche del diametro di un paio di centimetri e della lunghezza di 7/8 centimetri, ma sono diffuse anche versioni più tondeggianti. Sono solitamente composti di carne trita fina di manzo e agnello, condita di sale, spezie e aromi. Vengono serviti...

yo'

@CarLaTeX more commonly known as ćevapi or ćevapčići :)

egreg

@yo' I used the Slovenian spelling.

yo'

9:36 PM

@egreg yeah, I know :)

CarLaTeX

@egreg @yo' they seem tasty!

egreg

@CarLaTeX :)

Loop Space

10:01 PM

I've just flagged tex.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1272/86 for mod attention, but it might be worth more general input. Basically, I suggest removing all the crud and leaving it as a (closed) question-and-answer that we can point to when needed but discussion occurs elsewhere.

Joseph Wright

10:11 PM

@LoopSpace My teeth are on edge with \text{\phi}: ! Missing $ inserted.

Alan Munn

@CarLaTeX Perfect with pineapple.

Maeher

@AlanMunn Just like pizza!

Loop Space

10:28 PM

@JosephWright Mine too. Could have been worse, could have been $\text{\verb+\phi+}$

CarLaTeX

@AlanMunn there is no hope ROFL

David Carlisle

11:07 PM

@barbarabeeton yes you did lots! also of course keeping our sql queries honest with searching the live site. Not sure which numbers you were adding but the data query counts are always posts so each question and each answer counting 1

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