TeX, LaTeX and Friends

12:22 AM

@barbarabeeton Done. It isn't easy when the code is that long and doesn't reproduce the problem .... I'm a bit intimidated by the OP's response to my comment which was that that's how AMS does it, but if you say it should be an answer ...

@barbarabeeton Hope he gets better. (I don't do prayers.)

David Carlisle

1:05 AM

@WillRobertson tex.stackexchange.com/questions/351955/… ping:-)

Steven B. Segletes

@barbarabeeton Thanks. Done

Will Robertson

1:27 AM

@DavidCarlisle Thanks -- I guess maybe I should have left the option as a no-op but I didn't want to silently change people's output. I've corrected the manual now too!

Nasser

2:16 AM

I am the only student in my class who uses Latex. I do not know if this is good or bad :)

cfr

2:34 AM

@Nasser Good if the class is on LaTeX.

Nasser

@cfr there are classes on Latex? No, it is a math class actually.

cfr

@JosephWright One of the students in the last workshop requested that the typeset result of examples/exercises be included in the handouts. Is there a good way to do this? I don't know how I might go about it, given that many examples are complete documents with different classes, packages etc.. I realise I could compile them separately to images and include the images, but that would make it an enormous amount of work.

@Nasser There are. Some are even assessed, though I don't teach any like that myself. I only teach workshops rather than classes. But some people teach whole modules on it. Sometimes people ask questions here trying to get us to do their homework ;).

Nasser

folks: I have found something Latex can not do! finally! Which is a put a line number on each line, text and math. tex.stackexchange.com/questions/351984/… It seems the lineno package do not work well with AMSMATH for some reason.

cfr

@Nasser Or bad if the class is on Word or something. (I don't know any of those, though there are workshops on it.)

barbara beeton

@cfr -- good answer, thanks. (\topskip is used in so many unsuspected places! took me a long time to learn that.) and thanks for not using geometry -- reaults with that "may be unpredictable".

cfr

2:39 AM

@Nasser Er ... this is really the first thing you've found it can't do?

@Nasser Why should it be either good or bad in that case?

barbara beeton

@cfr -- i don't do prayers either, but "think positive thoughts" usually works. thanks.

Nasser

@cfr it is good, because it gives me advantage over other students. my HW looks better :) but bad, since it seems Latex is not popular and if few use it, I worry about it being around in the future.

cfr

@barbarabeeton I didn't use geometry because the class obviously was set up with a particular layout already. Short of redoing it all from scratch, using geometry would just compete with the existing code.

@barbarabeeton ;) Indeed.

@Nasser You'll have to offer them a class on LaTeX.

barbara beeton

@Nasser -- since there are some serious publishers that use (la)tex, and it's also used "behind the scenes" for some commercial applications, it's not likely to disappear soon. if you go on to write professional math papers for publication, you will discover that (la)tex is the lingua franca of professional mathematicians. competitors like xhml and mathml, although well defined, are unusable directly by ordinary humans, requiring non-free software for comprehensibility.

@Nasser -- the two packages -- lineno and amsmath -- were written by different people, totally independently of each other. amsmath preceded lineno, and as far as i know, the author of lineno didn't ask any questions of the amsmath people while developing the package. (la)tex developers often work in a relative vacuum, a practice which could be improved upon.

Nasser

2:56 AM

@barbarabeeton thanks. This is not first time I found packages that conflict or do not work well together. I wonder if adobe PDF professional have any feature to add side-line numbers to document, in the margin, or if there is a way to edit the PDF afterwards to do that manually. any way, hope some Latex expert can fix lineno package so it works with AMSMATH. For me, AMSMATH is latex, since without it, I can't do anything really math wise in document.

barbara beeton

@Nasser -- there are lots of questions that mention the problems of getting correct line numbers with this package combination. i've commented on this answer tex.stackexchange.com/a/352038 that i've added an item to the bugs/requests list for amsmath to at least document the incompatibility in the amsmath documentation.

cfr

@Nasser Journals routinely add line numbers to documents after turning them into PDFs. (They turn PDFs into PDFs first, too. Hence the complaint that pdfTeX-generated PDFs cannot be accepted as they can't be converted to PDFs.) However, that kind of solution might not meet your standards. (It would be easy to do it in the document itself, too, in LaTeX, if that was all that was wanted.)

Nasser

3:18 AM

@cfr you said Journals routinely add line numbers to documents after turning them into PDFs yes, I'd like to do this. I can add a command in my Makefile, once I compiled latex to pdf, to do this. Would you know how it is done? I'll go search on it now also. I am not sure I understand the rest of your message when you say It would be easy to do it in the document itself, too, in LaTeX, if that was all that was wanted but that is what I wanted. add line number to each line, that is why....

I use lineno package. But it does not work with AMSMATH. So I am confused when you say It would be easy to do it in the document itself :(

Diaa Abidou

Hello everyone,

For biblatex's apa style, the most famous question about making both author+year clickable was addressed in such a way that the preamble has to be loaded with so many lines.

At present, is there a more decent compact way or a newly added option that can do this job?

cfr

4:12 AM

@Nasser The thing is that the line numbers journals add are just mechanical additions at the left of the page, say. They are not sensitive to the content. While I don't know, I imagine that if your document includes, say, a display maths environment, then that will get several line numbers. The top margin and bottom margin also get several. For journals, this is fine, all that matters is that references can be communicated. It doesn't matter if there are additional numbers.

@DiaaAbidou You want people to find the question or are you planning to help by providing a link?

Nasser

@cfr thanks. I googled on this now. I could not find a way to add lines number to PDF document from inside PDF reader. I have the PRO version 9 on my PC. I've seen some tricks and complicated suggestions, such as converting to word, adding line numbers in word and print to PDF printer and such. I've seen someone selling tool for $60 to do it for PDF :). So when you say it is easy, I am confused how :)

Diaa Abidou

4:40 AM

@cfr I forgot to add a link; for example you may find this tex.stackexchange.com/a/1690/2288 or this tex.stackexchange.com/a/27107/2288, but I follow the approach in this answer tex.stackexchange.com/a/27616/2288. So, I thought that maybe an option has been introduced recently somewhere that can make this job easier without cramming the preamble.

cfr

@Nasser I only said that it would be easy to produce line numbers like those the journals add. As I say, I take it you want something which numbers the actual lines and nothing but the lines. That's not what journals do. They just stick a series of numbers down the left of the page.

Nasser

@cfr thanks. I understand. But even numbers like the what journals is OK with me. But how to do it? is it done in Latex, or directly in PDF using external tool? They just stick a series of numbers down the left of the page but how? Is this something I can do myself also? if you know how, I have open question on this, please feel free to answer it if you like tex.stackexchange.com/questions/351984/…

cfr

@Nasser Not tonight ...

Nasser

@cfr no problem. Any time you have will be great. thanks.

Johannes_B

7:44 AM

I guess you noticed i use mock-up names based on a first name and an animal name as given name. I just did a google search. Walt(h)er Wombat and Carl Capybara are fine, but Laura Lion is the name of a (retired) porn star. Do you see any reason to actually change that in the wikibook?

@JosephWright @barbarabeeton ^^^^^

David Carlisle

8:42 AM

@Nasser it's not even well defined what a line number should mean in math, for example if you use align* then you might say each align row is a line but if you make the same layout with \[\begin{aligned} then is that just a single line? The whole numbering is arbitrary and difficult to achieve. (why do you want them anyway?)

@Johannes_B clearly you should change the first two, to have a consistent theme:-)

CarLaTeX

@egreg Do you like this: meta.tex.stackexchange.com/a/7211/101651?

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle Which ones?

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B I meant rename wombat and capybara to be "film stars" (but don't always do what I say:-)

Nasser

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I understand. (that is why we need a grid system in Latex for vertical alignment of boxes :). I just needed line numbers, so when I want to reference line number in my PDF when I send it in email, I know to tell them to check line 302 or so in the document. It is easier that is all, than having to say page 5, line near equation 23 or so.

David Carlisle

@Nasser it's easy to put a ruler down the side of the page evenly spaced numbers 1 to 50 or whatever fits but unless the whole page is text they won't be aligned with any baseline so not sure if that really helps.

@Nasser it just looks very odd to me and distracting making the text harder to read, why don't you just use internal hyperlinks then you can link to any paragraph or equation or whatever unit that you need.

Nasser

8:50 AM

@DavidCarlisle yes, it will help. It is really just a marker. I could tell someone to check line near 34 for example. If it does align exactly, it is not problem. But it is quick way to go to location. If the line numbers are small and in margin, it will not make the text hard to read? internal links do not do what I want. I want simply to tell some to check something at line xx. That is all. I do not want to add links for this.

David Carlisle

@Nasser it just seems odd to use a hyper text format like pdf and then link to sections just by visible page and line numbers and no actual links. It's as if I tell you to go up 21 lines rather than go to here

@Nasser I think that's why no one has ever put any serious effort into line numbering math displays, it's just not very useful and hardly ever done. Line numbering works well in disciplines that are almost all text with few displays

Nasser

@DavidCarlisle I think I did not make myself clear. I mean, what if I want to send document in email, and in the email message I want to tell someone to check line xx and line yy. May be next time I want to tell someone to check something around line 50. etc.. I do not want to edit Latex and add links for this each time?

David Carlisle

@Nasser It's better to have invisible unobtrusive anchors in the file and on the occasion you need to refer to them just say see foo.pdf#eqn50 rather than have distracting line numbers and have to tell someone to scroll to that line by hand.

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle I just checked. There are quite a few film stars starting with C as given and family name. But i don't know if people will get the joke :-)

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B better stick to animals I suspect

Johannes_B

9:44 AM

0

A: Portable Version of TeXnicCenter

Many many students use Texmaker Portable. All is into a single folder, with even bibtex for references. it has naturally pdflatex. A cool advice from my side Ask me for the zip file. Texmaker 4.3 (compiled with Qt 5.2.1 and Poppler 0.22.5) Copyright (c) 2003-2014 by Pascal Brachet Project...

Not sure this is a good answer for the site.

Will Robertson

9:56 AM

@JosephWright / @DavidCarlisle — can you remind me if we decided to keep the explicit \count allocations when l3build creates its normalised log file? Or has the issue never really come up? I'm back to trying to fix up my Travis thing :)

Joseph Wright

@WillRobertson They are in the config file for the L3 repo, not in the 'core' of l3build

@WillRobertson support/regression-test.cfg

Will Robertson

@JosephWright Ah thanks; that may help. Can you remember why didn't we just regexp away the numbers?

Joseph Wright

@WillRobertson Changes in 'unexpected' places can allocate additional registers: for example, if one has an additional file loaded

Will Robertson

Fair enough, I suppose! The other issue I'm having is with things like luaotfload's

! luaotfload | db : Font names database loaded from /Users/will/Library/texlive/2016/texmf-var/luatex-cache/generic/names/luaotfload-names.luc(compiling luc: /usr/local/texlive/2016/texmf-var/luatex-cache/generic/fonts/otl/lmroman10-regular.luc)(load luc: /Users/will/Library/texlive/2016/texmf-var/luatex-cache/generic/fonts/otl/lmroman10-regular.luc))

Joseph Wright

@WillRobertson Personally I would prefer to go that way (it wasn't my call)

@WillRobertson Normally I have some \OMITs around something that loads fonts: see the contrib tests in the L3 repo

Will Robertson

10:06 AM

Is my reading of l3build.lua correct that it would be quite tedious to override the normalize() function to for additional cases?

@JosephWright Yeah, I could do without it most of the time — this is the basic loading test that sends everything to the tlg just to make sure no errors cropped up anywhere. Perhaps too blunt of a test.

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson you should be able to make a wrapper function that does your texts then calls the one from l3build (I think)

@WillRobertson it would be consistent with other things to lose at least the absolute paths, (@JosephWright)

Joseph Wright

@WillRobertson If we need more normalisation that can be sorted: for example, I can probably arrange to pick up ! luaotfload | db : up to some end marker

David Carlisle

@JosephWright or use harfbuzz which is less chatty:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Yes: I guess these are missed as they not part of the install root

@DavidCarlisle Good plan ;)

@PauloCereda I'll probably put you on the CC list (to come)

Paulo Cereda

10:11 AM

@JosephWright ooh

@JosephWright: on a serious note, this year (after some thesis writing madness phase) will be easier to handle stuff, so I will be definitely able to help a lot.

Will Robertson

After adding a luaotfload.conf file to reduce the logging verbosity, I've got it down to:

! (load luc: /Users/will/Library/texlive/2016/texmf-var/luatex-cache/generic/fonts/otl/lmroman10-regular.luc))

Joseph Wright

@WillRobertson load luc is a handy marker: would could strip out the entire line

@WillRobertson Perhaps I should pick up all of the .luc data and just keep the filenames?

Will Robertson

@JosephWright I'd say keeping the filenames is a good idea

Joseph Wright

@WillRobertson I'll look at this later today (my time)

Paulo Cereda

@WillRobertson: In unrelated news, what's in the cup? :)

Will Robertson

10:24 AM

@PauloCereda coffee, usually

Paulo Cereda

@WillRobertson ooh

Will Robertson

@PauloCereda I go through slow periods of being addicted and going cold turkey

currently addicted

Paulo Cereda

@WillRobertson I do the very same strategy with Coca-Cola. :) I am currently three weeks without drinking it. :)

David Carlisle

Is everyone supporting Welsh rugby today?

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh hold on, let me check

@DavidCarlisle against Italy, I see!

Christian Hupfer

10:31 AM

@DavidCarlisle: \let\DavidCarlisle\egreg ;-)

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer ugg not \global I hope.

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Depends on your editing capabilities ;-) Thanks by the way. I've forgotten the % there

Paulo Cereda

1636

Q: Time to take a stand

I am extremely upset by President Trump’s executive order on immigration. It is immoral, unconstitutional, and fundamentally un-American. The community on Stack Overflow is made up of users from all over the world. At least 100,000 posts on Stack Overflow were written by users from the seven cou...

discussion

Oh my...

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer If I had been a real egreg I wouldn't have edited, I'd have posted a competing question and tried to steal a tick.

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle I doubt there would a tick for my answer. It's a 'stupid' way for a 'stupid' request ;-)

David Carlisle

10:39 AM

@ChristianHupfer it's best for answers to match the questions

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle :D :D :D

egreg

@DavidCarlisle No.

Johannes_B

@PauloCereda I am not very happy with the way americans are currently treating democracy.

Will Robertson

Here's something:

-- Remove luaotfload absolute paths
line = string.gsub(
line,
"%(load luc: (.*)/(.-%.luc)%)",
"(load luc: [[..path omitted..]]/%2)"
)

@JosephWright — oddly, it only seems to work in the main normalize() function, not the one embedded within formatlualog(). That might make sense to you, though :) Would you like me to commit it?

Oh, of course the reason the lualog normalisation wasn't happening is because my fontspec tests are engine specific.

I can drop the `[[..path omitted..]]` stuff if you'd like; for consistency with the others it'd probably be better as `[..]` or similar.

Johannes_B

11:03 AM

I guess somebody is soon kicked from chatting :-)

egreg

@Johannes_B For multiple posting?

Johannes_B

@egreg I keep seeing spam flags because a user posts the political statement, delete account stuff.

egreg

@Johannes_B Yes, always the same message

Johannes_B

11:23 AM

@DavidCarlisle "Laura Lobster", "Laura Loris", "Laura Lark", "Laura Llama", "Laura Lapwing" all give positive google results. What the heck is going on?

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B everyone likes a Laura apparently:-)

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle :-)

Will Robertson

11:40 AM

@JosephWright — sigh, on two levels:

(load luc: /Users/will/Library/texlive/2016/texmf-var/luatex-cache/generic/font
s/otl/texgyrepagella-regular.luc)TIMO
TRUE
OMIT

:)

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson line breaking in log files accounts for half the complication in the normalisation functions:-)

Will Robertson

Is it just me or has LuaTeX changed the way that writing to the log works? We never had a problem with this earlier did we?

\long\def\LONGTYPEOUT#1{%
\begingroup
\long\def\TYPE##1{##1}%
\immediate\write128{#1}%
\endgroup
}

@DavidCarlisle I think we need to add ^^J in there and I hope it doesn't mess with anyone's tests...

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson Mainly Ive only looked at the 2e tests (using test2e not regresion-test.tex) and there until the other day luatex only ever used tfm fonts so there was no lua logging

@WillRobertson yes looks like it (perhaps also make sure that ^^J is newline char as well (for plain format tests)

Will Robertson

@DavidCarlisle Yeah, that's already done

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson Ah I'm sure I knew that really:-)

Will Robertson

11:49 AM

@DavidCarlisle I'm just surprised that considering 2e's definition \def\typeout{\immediate\write17}

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson let me try...

Will Robertson

Oh I should have already. Sorry.

\immediate\write128{foo}
\immediate\write128{foo}
\immediate\write128{foo}

DOES produce expected output (all separate lines). It's when \immediate\write interacts with Lua-based logging that the problem evidently occurs

David Carlisle

\message{xxx}\immediate\write16{abc1}\message{yyy}

\message{xxx}\immediate\write156{abc2}\message{yyy}

\message{xxx}\immediate\write-1{abc3}\message{yyy}

\bye

makes

xxx
abc1
yyy xxx
abc2
yyy xxx
abc3
 yyy

Will Robertson

Luaotfload has the equivalent of:

\immediate\write128{foo}
\directlua{texio.write("bar")}
\immediate\write128{foo}
\directlua{texio.write("bar")}
\immediate\write128{foo}

David Carlisle

hmm so yes \write is forcing a newline at both ends foir tex writing.

Will Robertson

11:53 AM

foo
barfoo
barfoo

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson it could use texio.write_nl instead.. (if we asked:-)

Will Robertson

Maybe I should pull request…

@DavidCarlisle Wait is that supposed to help? It doesn't change anything for me...

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson or even better use the optional first argument thing so it's configurable to send it just to teh log instead of to the terminal

@WillRobertson it's supposed to add a newline, let me see...

manual say

This function behaves like texio.write, but make sure that the given strings will appear at the
beginning of a new line. You can pass a single empty string if you only want to move to the next
line.

@WillRobertson although here you want a newline at the end I suppose

Will Robertson

So it doesn't help here because for some reason

\directlua{texio.write_nl("bar")}
\immediate\write128{foo}

is producing "barfoo"

So the problem IS \write after all?

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson yes I guess it hasn't seen that a newline is needed as the previous write hasn't gone through Tex's routines

Will Robertson

11:58 AM

Or is it the 128 that's the issue? I get "expected" terminal output with

\immediate\write0{foo}
\directlua{texio.write_nl("bar")}
\immediate\write0{foo}
\directlua{texio.write_nl("bar")}
\immediate\write0{foo}

Le sigh

David Carlisle

0 and 128 same for me
\immediate\write128{foo}
\directlua{texio.write_nl("bar")}
\immediate\write128{foo}
\directlua{texio.write_nl("bar")}
\immediate\write128{foo}

makes

foo
bar
foo
bar
foo

on terminal and log

Will Robertson

@DavidCarlisle Ahhhhh, I'm on my old computer aren't I... dammit. "This is LuaTeX, Version 0.95.0 (TeX Live 2016)"

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson might have changed I'm on cygwin and luatex 1.02 :-)

Will Robertson

I am so out of date

@DavidCarlisle Very sorry for the distraction

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson no you are current texlive which is 0.95

(1.02 is compiled from luatex svn experimental branch)

Will Robertson

12:05 PM

@DavidCarlisle Well… I just updated something relating to LuaTeX using tlmgr and it fixed the problem (??!!) but the console still tells me "This is LuaTeX, Version 0.95.0 (TeX Live 2016) "

I think that means it's time for bed.

David Carlisle

@WillRobertson good night:-)

Will Robertson

@DavidCarlisle til next time!

Johannes_B

12:45 PM

@DavidCarlisle classes.dtx -> 2169 % |\@mainmatter| is true iff we are processing Main Matter. When

iff has an extra f :-)

changes notes are amusing, by the way :-)

David Carlisle

1:07 PM

@Johannes_B iff== mathematical slang if and only if

Johannes_B

@DavidCarlisle Thanks, never heard that before. :-)

David Carlisle

@Johannes_B hence plain (and latex): \def\iff{\;\Longleftrightarrow\;}

egreg

@Johannes_B I believe it was initiated by Paul Halmos, who decided to use “iff” in definitions: “a schtroumpf is said to be normal iff it is blue”; his justification was that “if and only if” would be too heavy in this case. Unfortunately, people started to use “iff” as a shorthand for “if and only if” in every situation.

David Carlisle

@egreg do other languages have sensible words for only if (or exclusive or) or is this a particularly English problem?

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle In German: "wenn und nur dann wenn" (and not "wennundnurdannwenn" ;-))

egreg

1:16 PM

@DavidCarlisle Somebody tried “sse” in Italian, but happily it didn't spread.

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer hmm no better and longer:-)

egreg

@ChristianHupfer You could propose “wennn”

Christian Hupfer

@egreg That does look weird. There are no triple consonants in German language unless in composed nouns

@DavidCarlisle Longer, but better :-P

barbara beeton

@Johannes_B -- well, i think it's hilarious, actually. (when the systems folks at ams, a few years ago, were looking for names for two new computers, i suggested ada and linda -- two lovelaces. the wimps -- they chose something much more boring.) i've seen david's first comment, and find that quite silly also, but not necessarily something i would veto. if you do decide to change the last one, how about "lucy lion?

Johannes_B

@barbarabeeton It seems every single silly name gives some google results, so i decided to just leave it as is :-)

Christian Hupfer

1:29 PM

@Johannes_B How about Karla Kolumna? ;-)

Johannes_B

@ChristianHupfer Benjamin, du lieber Elephant ...

:-)

barbara beeton

@Johannes_B -- on other sites, there's a fair amount of sentiment that people shouldn't advertise. (on math.sx i was condemned for announcing, in response to a specific question, that ellen swanson's classic "math into type" was posted publicly on the ams website; a situation kindly countered by egreg, but it nearly made me remove myself from math.sx, which i had joined just for the purpose of answering that question.) so i agree that this may be questionable.

Johannes_B

@barbarabeeton It is more about the lines A cool advice from my side \par Ask me for the zip file.

Paulo Cereda

1:46 PM

Quack quack!

@Johannes: Señor Penguino! <3

Johannes_B

@PauloCereda Bom dia, senhor pato <3

Paulo Cereda

@Johannes_B awwwwwww

This is a high technical TeX talk

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Buenas Dias, el pato grande ;-)

Paulo Cereda

@ChristianHupfer Buenos dias, señor profesor de física! :)

Christian Hupfer

@PauloCereda Oh ... muchas gracias!

egreg

1:52 PM

@barbarabeeton I'm afraid the post has disappeared again. :(

@barbarabeeton But the reference is still available: math.stackexchange.com/a/988863/62967

@barbarabeeton No, cancel it: it's still there!

barbara beeton

@Johannes_B -- this u.s. citizen is very depressed about the whole situation. while it's necessary to try to live up to one's democratic responsibilities and support the elected government, those principles still do permit (for the moment) the freedom to voice one's disagreement, as long as it's done in a non-inflammatory way. (hoping that will continue ... not sure though with the way things are going.)

Paulo Cereda

@egreg link please. :)

@barbarabeeton :(

egreg

@PauloCereda Oh, it's not important: an edit to a post which none of us owns.

Paulo Cereda

@egreg oh I thought I could upvote. :(

Johannes_B

@barbarabeeton Everything will be fine in the long run.

barbara beeton

2:01 PM

@Johannes_B -- agreed. edit that out and comment.

Christian Hupfer

@barbarabeeton Perhaps the next elections to the senate and House of Representatives in 2018 could at least cut down the effect (a little bit)? And perhaps an impeachment is even possible...

barbara beeton

2:15 PM

@ChristianHupfer -- but in the meantime, a lot depends on the principles held by the next appointee to the supreme court. (i keep hoping things will become more sane. i remember the outcry against president johnson, who did have some unworthy views regarding vietnam, but who was never against the rights of the little guy or the principles of the constitution.)

Christian Hupfer

@barbarabeeton Hasn't President Johnson revised his views on the Vietnam war later on, after his presidency? Perhaps I am confusing this with some other president...

barbara beeton

@ChristianHupfer -- i think he may have; don't remember. (the major biography of johnson by robert caro is on my to-be-read list for when i have more time.) i do remember the skit by the "capitol steps" (a political comedy troupe of former senate staffers) with "johnson" saying "i used to be your king." that's got a new meaning now ...

Christian Hupfer

@barbarabeeton I see, well I am no expert in American history/politics and law, of course.

barbara beeton

@ChristianHupfer -- nor am i such an expert, but it's sometimes useful to know something about the system under which one finds oneself living. i've been fortunate, having had available a good public education, a scholarship to an excellent college, and a job that i've enjoyed for a very long time and has given me opportunities i never dreamed of. i would like others to be as fortunate.

Christian Hupfer

2:30 PM

@barbarabeeton Education is in 95 % of all cases the key for a successful life ... I doubt that many Germans really know about the German election system/constitution and federal pact, spoken from a local point of view. I am a bit scared about the possible outcome of the next general elections in Germany in September 2017, concerning all those dreadful populists....

Ulrike Fischer

2:43 PM

@ChristianHupfer @DavidCarlisle "genau dann wenn"

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer "exactly when" according to ~~google~~ my sources. Usable in English too probably.

Christian Hupfer

@UlrikeFischer too short ;-)

Mary Star

Hello!!

I have written the following code:

\begin{tabularx}{\textwidth}{M|M|M|M|M|M|M|M|MX}
         &$\textunderscore$           &$A$           &$G$    &$C$& $A$  & $T$ & $G$ & $C$ \\ \cline{1-9}
    $\textunderscore$ &\tikzmark{00}{0}&\tikzmark{01}{-1} & \tikzmark{02}{-2}&\tikzmark{03}{-3}    & \tikzmark{04}{-4}   & \tikzmark{05}{-5} & \tikzmark{06}{-6} & \tikzmark{07}{-7}\\[2em] \cline{1-9}
    $A$&  \tikzmark{10}{-1}     &\tikzmark{11}{2}& \tikzmark{12}{1}        &    \tikzmark{13}{0} & \tikzmark{14}{-1} & \tikzmark{15}{-2} & \tikzmark{16}{-3} & \tikzmark{17}{-4}\\[2em] \cline{1-9}

and I get the table i.stack.imgur.com/xIeD3.png

Why are the elements of the first and last column higher than the others?

Johannes_B

@MaryStar You are missing \documentclass, that should be one of the first problems you encounter.

Mary Star

2:59 PM

@Johannes_B I use \documentclass{article}

Is this the correct one?

barbara beeton

@MaryStar -- please make this a compilable file, and post it as an question on the main site. without more information on the packages you're using, it isn't able to be tested without guessing, and my crystal ball isn't working today.

Johannes_B

@MaryStar Your example isn't compilable. We cannot do a quick test to fix yourcode. We don't know nothing. Make it compilable and somebody will be able to help you within minutes.

Mary Star

@Johannes_B The whole code is the following:

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[english,greek]{babel}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{color}
\usepackage{tabularx}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usepackage[margin=1in]{geometry}

\renewcommand\tabularxcolumn[1]{m{#1}}
\newcolumntype{M}{>{\centering\arraybackslash}m{1cm}}

\newcommand\tikzmark[2]{%
\tikz[remember picture,baseline] \node[inner sep=2pt,outer sep=0] (#1){#2};%
}

\newcommand\link[2]{%
\begin{tikzpicture}[remember picture, overlay, >=stealth, shift={(0,0)}]
  \draw[->] (#1) to (#2);

David Carlisle

@MaryStar you are misusing tabularx it should always have an X column (but here you would be better to keep the fixed width columns and use tabular (also you get warnings about \textunderscore

Mary Star

So, do I have to write instead of \begin{tabularx}{\textwidth}{M|M|M|M|M|M|M|M|MX} ? Or do you not mean this one?

Is there also an other way to write the symbol _ in latex besides \textunderscore ?

@DavidCarlisle

Christian Hupfer

3:13 PM

@MaryStar \_ ...

Mary Star

@ChristianHupfer Ah ok

David Carlisle

Oh sorry you do have an X but you don't want tabularx just use `So, do I have to write instead of \begin{tabularx}{M|M|M|M|M|M|M|M|M|}

@MaryStar oruse \textunderscore but not like this $\textunderscore$ where the $ are not doing anything except making the input wrong.

Mary Star

@DavidCarlisle So, you mean that I should not write {\textwidth} ?

Or is \begin{tabularx} wrong? @DavidCarlisle

David Carlisle

@MaryStar I'd use tabular not tabularx which then means you would not have the \textwidth argument, something like this although the tikzmark is pushing things off still, any reason you are using theis (original) definition rather than the tikzmark library that comes with tikz now/

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[english,greek]{babel}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{color}
\usepackage{tabularx}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usepackage[margin=1in]{geometry}

\renewcommand\tabularxcolumn[1]{m{#1}}
\newcolumntype{M}{>{\centering\arraybackslash}p{1cm}}

\newcommand\tikzmark[2]{%
\leavevmode\tikz[remember picture,baseline] \node[inner sep=2pt,outer sep=0] (#1){#2};%
}

\newcommand\link[2]{%
\begin{tikzpicture}[remember picture, overlay, >=stealth, shift={(0,0)}]

@MaryStar ah, that's what's wrong you had the numbers inside the tikzmark tikz which should be zero sized invisible marker, this aligns better

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[english,greek]{babel}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{color}
\usepackage{tabularx}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usepackage[margin=1in]{geometry}

\renewcommand\tabularxcolumn[1]{m{#1}}
\newcolumntype{M}{>{\centering\arraybackslash}p{1cm}}

\newcommand\tikzmark[2]{%
\leavevmode\tikz[remember picture,baseline] \node[inner sep=2pt,outer sep=0] (#1){};#2%
}

\newcommand\link[2]{%
\begin{tikzpicture}[remember picture, overlay, >=stealth, shift={(0,0)}]

Mary Star

Ah ok!! Thank you so much!! :-) @DavidCarlisle

David Carlisle

3:29 PM

@egreg @cfr something about 7-12 ...

David Carlisle

3:42 PM

7-26 @egreg must be cheering wildly by now.

egreg

3:56 PM

@DavidCarlisle Sure!

@DavidCarlisle 7-33, by the way

David Carlisle

@egreg the numbers go up even faster than cricket

Joseph Wright

4:20 PM

After a bit of a hiatus, I'm back on siunitx v3

David Carlisle

5:03 PM

@JosephWright speaking of which, current question on site M_1 &= F\times d_\perp = \unit[3500]{lb}(\unit[3]{ft}) &= \unit[10\;500]{ft\cdot lb} do people really do science/engineering courses still using Imperial measurements?

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Probably. :(

@DavidCarlisle This is why probes crash.

David Carlisle

@egreg only in long lost parts of the empire I suspect

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Quite likely

Joseph Wright

5:25 PM

@egreg I'm relying on you for code review ;)

egreg

@JosephWright Plunging into siunitx is not easy.

Joseph Wright

@egreg I mean the v3 code

egreg

@JosephWright Probably it will be straighter.

Joseph Wright

@egreg That's the plan: it's actually usable now if you doing just the basics, though it will be a while to get everything working. I really do want to do v3, and my target is a release this year.

Currently I think I'm about x2 faster than the existing code for basic operations: tables should be considerably better

egreg

@JosephWright :)

Joseph Wright

5:33 PM

@egreg The question is whether I can pull off all of the font stuff: I hope the new approach is better but there may be a few tricky edge cases

@egreg On 'code review' I'm mainly thinking the code-level interfaces

Werner

5:46 PM

@JosephWright Is there an option for biblatex akin to hyperref's \hypersetup{..}?

Something that would allow you to not have to specify a bunch of options at load time, but through a macro.

I know there are distinctions between load time and global options, but many options can be set either at load time or elsewhere.

Joseph Wright

5:57 PM

@Werner No, though many options can be set using \settoggle: depends on the implmentation

Werner

@JosephWright Feature request, maybe?

Joseph Wright

@Werner Well it's complicated as almost all of the options are from the styles not from the core (the latter are largely load-time only)

Werner

I see.

It's a lot of balls to juggle.

Joseph Wright

@Werner You should be able to use \ExecuteBibliographyOptions after loading biblatex

cfr

6:12 PM

@DavidCarlisle A competitor to 7-11s?

Vrouvrou

Hello,

how to correct this please

$$
\begin{array}{cccc}
L_i: L^{\Phi}(B_{2\rho}(0)) \rightarrow \mathbb{R}\\
v\mapsto L_i(v)=\int_{B_{2\rho}(0)} \xi \phi(|\nabla u|)\frac{\partial u}{\partial x_i} v dx.
\end{array}
$$

@Vrouvrou Hello.

@Vrouvrou Hi

hi

@Vrouvrou A compilable example would be Much Much easier to deal with.

cfr

6:14 PM

@Vrouvrou Don't use $$.

Vrouvrou

i just want to place v under the space

Joseph Wright

2

Q: AUCTeX: how to compile a file, which does end in '.ins'

I am playing around with some LaTeX's DocStrip package. (For those interested: it is a LaTeX package, to create documented code, in order to write e.g. a style file and incorporate the documentation in one file. DocStrip will Strip the Documentation and generate a clean and fast loadable Styl...

auctex compilation

David Carlisle

@Vrouvrou don't use $$ in latex and array is intended for matrices not for displayed equations, so that would be better with align but what error did you get

Joseph Wright

I'm no expert, but surely Emacs should only add .tex if there is no extension at all ...

Vrouvrou

i have no error,

David Carlisle

6:16 PM

@JosephWright yes but the issue is that emacs needs to know the .ins file is tex at all, otherwise it doesn't open in tex mode

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Ah, didn't think of that

cfr

@Vrouvrou Which space? There is no purpose to using cccc as you only have one column.

David Carlisle

@JosephWright you've been led astray by tex-specific editors:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle So you don't have a TeX-specific 'typeset now' command in AUCTeX?

cfr

@DavidCarlisle Doesn't emacs figure that out? I thought it would write the code for you as well ....

David Carlisle

6:18 PM

@JosephWright yes but I didn't read in that detail but if you just find-file and load a .ins file it will be in fundamental mode not auctex unless you have done a one-time customisation to tell it that .ins are tex.

Vrouvrou

@cfr i want something like this

cfr

@Vrouvrou Do what @DavidCarlisle said.

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Ah, I see: I thought you'd have something akin to Ctrl-T in TeXworks once AUCTeX was installed, but then I'd dislike the available commands being file dependent (syntax highlighting is different)

David Carlisle

@Vrouvrou so use align* and if you have problems ask a question on site with a proper complete example

@JosephWright you can always do M-x tex-mode to force the mode to change by hand but if you do that you may as well type tex foo.ins on the commandline (which is what I do anyway:-)

Werner

@JosephWright Oooo, nice. That's what I was looking for.

Joseph Wright

6:21 PM

@DavidCarlisle Usually the same here for .ins files (to me they also mean something else anyway, so I have to open with the right program!)

David Carlisle

@cfr It's almost certain that most .ins files in the world are not TeX so it would be a bad global default

cfr

@DavidCarlisle I know most editors go by the extension. Do you mean emacs is just another editor?

David Carlisle

@cfr well it goes by arbitrary lisp code that runs with your full permissions, so you could make .ins files to default to windows install files during office hours and docstrip files at weekends, if you really wanted to do that.

Vrouvrou

thank you

Werner

@JosephWright Found this reference: Set biblatex options after loading

Thanks again.

Faheem Mitha

6:39 PM

Hi folks. I just got a -257 rep change because a user was removed. That's extremely unusual. Does anyone know what happened?

Joseph Wright

@FaheemMitha See meta

25

Q: Who is the user removed yesterday?

Does anybody know (a moderator?) who is the user that has been removed which yesterday night caused to many of us a great amount of lost reputation? I don't think he is Harish Kumar, who had a very high reputation, because the rules say: This removal occurs whenever a user is deleted, unless...

discussion moderation users

Stefan Kottwitz

^--

Faheem Mitha

@JosephWright Ok, will do.

Faheem Mitha

7:03 PM

Hmm, I find the stated user's reason for leaving odd. He could just choose not to be active.

It's really not that hard. Most of the world's population manages to not be active on SE.

Anyway, it seems he voted a lot, but I didn't know him. And Harish Kumar left? I didn't know that.

CarLaTeX

7:50 PM

Does anybody know how to set the proportion of the rectangle in a `\documentclass[tikz]{standalone}` to create a correct image for this post:
http://meta.tex.stackexchange.com/q/7182/101651 and the correct `convert`command? Thank you!

yo'

@CarLaTeX which one? You linked the Q, not any single A

CarLaTeX

@yo' Sorry, my answers: meta.tex.stackexchange.com/a/7211/101651 and meta.tex.stackexchange.com/a/7206/101651, thank you!

cfr

@DavidCarlisle Sounds like a useful feature on Linux. Too bad I don't use emacs.

yo'

@CarLaTeX ah! Well, this is tough, getting pixel precision from LaTeX. I think an external tool may be necessary; or, you can try \useasboundingbox

cfr

@FaheemMitha This is psychologically naïve, I'm afraid.

Faheem Mitha

7:57 PM

@cfr I don't see why.

CarLaTeX

@yo' OK, I give up, thank you anyway!

yo'

@CarLaTeX try something like convert ad.pdf -resize "600x500!" ad.png (convert comes from ImageMagick)

cfr

@FaheemMitha Most of the world's population manage not to spend more than they can afford playing one-arm bandits. After all, it is just a question of not visiting a bookmakers. Most of the world's population manage to fly when necessary. After all, it is just a question of getting on a plane and sitting there.

Faheem Mitha

@cfr Part one is relevant, part two isn't.

CarLaTeX

@yo' I used convert -background white -alpha remove -density 300x250 myfile.pdf -resize "600>x" myfile.png

Faheem Mitha

8:02 PM

There might be such a thing as TeX addiction. But I'd like some evidence of it.

Hands up everyone here who is TeX addicted, please.

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha that isn't the way addiction diagnosis works.

yo'

@CarLaTeX ah, density is wrong here I think, surely used this way. But you're right, you shall have -density 300 or similar somewhere.

Faheem Mitha

@DavidCarlisle Depends on the addiction.

We aren't talking about alcohol or drugs. I can't control myself around chocolate, so I tend to avoid buying it.

I'd say chocolate and TeX are quite comparable. They are both tasty in moderation.

CarLaTeX

@yo' Raphael said "As long as the PDF does not has the correct ratio of width/height, it's not going to be pretty" (I don't ask him because from his comment to the question I think I've annoyed him :):):)

yo'

@CarLaTeX ok, give me couple minuts

CarLaTeX

8:07 PM

@yo' There's no hurry, thanks!

Faheem Mitha

Hi @yo'. How's it going?

yo'

@CarLaTeX try convert -density 300 ad.pdf -resize "600x500^" -gravity center -extent "600x500" ad.png

@FaheemMitha busy but well, thanks. And you?

Faheem Mitha

@yo' Cool. I'm doing ok, thanks. Not very active on SE these days.

CarLaTeX

@yo' OK, thank you very much!

Jan

8:20 PM

@DavidCarlisle I still have no clue, how to work with multiple .dtx files. I want to have one dtx-file, where I store the "overall" version number for the bundle. That version number shall be integrated in every package of that bundle.

I thought, that this version.dtx has to manipulate the code of other dtx-files, in order to set the \ProvidesPackage-command.

Is that doable with DocStrip, or is that in general a bad idea?

I have downloaded the complete base.zip and investigated the ltver.dtx, you pointed out.

I found ltvers.dtx is only used rarley, just on three ins files.

David Carlisle

@Jan I'll knock out an example in a bit

Jan

Don't hurry. My wife asks for end of work for today.

David Carlisle

@Jan you must do as she says, of course!

Jan

@DavidCarlisle I just sumbled across unpack.ins, which seems to input ltvers.dtx by \@@input

That's new to me :-)

Good night every body!

David Carlisle

@Jan yes but there is lots of weirdness around there as latex sources are designed to be able to unpack from initex so no latex or even plain tex macros defined

CarLaTeX

8:47 PM

@yo' Sorry if I ask you for another favor, could you see if my pictures are OK now? Thanks!

yo'

@CarLaTeX looks good! Have you used my approach?

CarLaTeX

@yo' Of course!

yo'

@CarLaTeX good to know it works, thanks!

CarLaTeX

@yo' You're very very welcome! I've also changed the dimension of the tikz rectangle from (0,0) rectangle (10,10) into (0,0) rectangle (10,8.3333).

yo'

@CarLaTeX that's of course necessary. Or you could keep (10,10) and use \begin{tikzpicture}[xscale=1.2,yscale=1.0]

David Carlisle

8:54 PM

@Jan two new packages created, I should upload to ctan I think.

CarLaTeX

@yo' Thank you for the alternative!

yo'

@CarLaTeX you're welcome!

CarLaTeX

@yo' If I ask here all Italian users to vote for this:meta.tex.stackexchange.com/a/7211/101651, is it unfair?

yo'

@CarLaTeX I wouldn't say so, but I'm not a mod (@JosephWright)

CarLaTeX

@yo' I'll wait for the mod's opinion, then! :):):)

David Carlisle

9:03 PM

@CarLaTeX that last line ruins it as promotion:-)

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle Hahahaha, I thought it was a guarantee!

cfr

@FaheemMitha Whether the second is relevant depends on what your argument was.

@FaheemMitha That's an indirect form of self-control. So is requesting your SE account be deleted. Unless you can give up all your electronic devices, that's really the best indirect self-control. Chocolate is easier to avoid. You can not bring it home. So you only have to overcome temptation for brief periods (in the shop, say). But internet access is ubiquitous and many people require access for work etc., so not bringing the source of temptation home has to take another form.

@FaheemMitha No. It doesn't. That isn't the way addiction diagnosis works. Anyway, it doesn't have to be an addiction to be a problem. You should read the story about frog and toad ...

user89

hmm, in biblatex, i am using style=authoryear-comp (so I get stuff like (Robins et al. 2009) in the references....but one of the articles only has three authors, so it still shows up as (Robins, Williams and Toads 2009)

how do i just make it show up as (Robins et al. 2009), instead of all three authors

is there a way to change the "when to start compressing" parameter?

cfr

@CarLaTeX Only if they listen to you.

@user89 maxcitenames=1?

CarLaTeX

@cfr Surely I ask to upvote it only if they like it; I'm not a dictator! Hahaha

cfr

9:15 PM

@CarLaTeX ;)

user89

@cfr thank you very much!

that worked

cfr

@user89 p. 45 of the manual.

egreg

9:39 PM

@PauloCereda 1:0 and 1:0: good job!

CarLaTeX

@PauloCereda don't tell him I'm an Inter fan...

Ops... the chat is public hahaha

egreg

@CarLaTeX Buuuuuuh!

CarLaTeX

@egreg :):):):):):):)

Christian Hupfer

10:01 PM

Oh no, football talk ...

egreg

@ChristianHupfer Palmeiras-Botafogo 1:0 and Juventus-Inter 1:0. Great Sunday also for Wales.

Christian Hupfer

@egreg There's football in Wales? ;-)

David Carlisle

@ChristianHupfer ask @egreg about Rugby football.

egreg

@ChristianHupfer wru.wales/cym/hafan_standard.php

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle Looking for some ball on a muddy playground? ;-)

egreg

10:11 PM

@ChristianHupfer "Rugby is a good occasion for keeping thirty bullies far from the centre of the city" (Oscar Wilde)

Christian Hupfer

@egreg Well said, but it does not last forever ;-)

Telemachus

Any thoughts about what would cause a partial final line to have too little spacing (relative to the rest of a paragraph)? Example image here:

Christian Hupfer

@Telemachus: Empty \footnote{} perhaps ???

Telemachus

Yup, that sounds possible.

David Carlisle

@Telemachus I would guess the line numbering macro got confused by some markup but as always it is impossible to debug unseen code

Telemachus

10:19 PM

@DavidCarlisle Fair enough, re unseen code, but the document is so large that I can't quite figure out how to quickly create a MWE. Hence my shot in the dark here via image.

Christian Hupfer

@DavidCarlisle I read unseen code telepathically of course ;-)

Telemachus

@ChristianHupfer May have nailed it, in fact. I do something very hacky with \footnoterule and that's probably causing the problem.

Christian Hupfer

@Telemachus Well, such short rules at the bottom of the page are a strong indicator for footnotes... anything else is left to you as an exercise ...

Telemachus

Yup. Sadly, removing the footnoterule doesn't fix the problem. Seems more or less random: some final lines are too close. I'll have to see if I can narrow it down to an MWE that shows the problem. THanks.

Christian Hupfer

@Telemachus That's indeed the better option, yes. I hope you'll succeed

Telemachus

10:27 PM

Thanks.

barbara beeton

10:38 PM

@Telemachus -- shot in the dark ... when a text is put together (by tex) line by line, and there's a font size change involved, the last baseline of the "preceding" paragraph can be different. try adding \par or \endgraf at the end of one of these paragraphs and see if it makes a difference. if it does, it gives you a better idea of what to look for.

Telemachus

11:44 PM

@barbarabeeton Thanks for the suggestion. That doesn't seem to be it. As best I can tell, it's something about the line numbering (which I'm getting from reledmac). I'll keep experimenting.

David Carlisle

@Telemachus it should be easy enough to make a small example, line breaking is a pretty local property to a single paragraph so noting after that paragraph should effect anything and not much before,

@barbarabeeton a missing par would affect all lines of the preceding paragraph not just the last in a normal line breaking situation.

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- yes, that's true. but if a paragraph is put together line by line (it does happen sometimes), then only the last line would be affected. have had that happen in footnotes, where \endgraf does the job fixing the problem.

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