12:00 AM
The LaTeX zeef is under review and will be publicly visible soon :) I expect contributions!! I am not a clever man :)
(There is a fluid, in-system process for suggesting resources. You can, of course, always drop me a note.)

12:24 AM
@SeanAllred You mean, recommending resources? :)

@PauloCereda Yes :)

@SeanAllred ^^ Oh no! :)

I've got a couple things alrea…………
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:)

@PauloCereda Also, a very good friend of mine did her thesis on recommender systems!
She made one for cooking blogs (she double-majored in English)

12:28 AM
@SeanAllred How nice! It's a great area.
@Sean: I wrote a engine just as an exercise. It ended up getting very significant results, so we decided to publish it! :)

@PauloCereda Classic Paulo :)

@SeanAllred <3
@Sean: Is she still interested?

@PauloCereda In recommender systems? I'd say so – she's doing it professionally :)

@SeanAllred Cool! I once saw something but I can't remember the exact naming thingy: there are a couple of studies regarding data extraction from databases while preserving identity and privacy. I think it may become something huge very very soon. :)

@PauloCereda Is that a hard problem? I would think the data would simply be made anonymous

12:33 AM
@SeanAllred Which brings me to another paper of mine. :) We are not that anonymous. :)

@PauloCereda Oh certainly – I gave up on anonymity a long time ago.

@SeanAllred I'll find some old material of mine. It's a very nice read. :)

Around the same time I added my name to this site :)
@PauloCereda I would enjoy that!

@SeanAllred :)
Time for me to go up the wooden hill to Bedfordshire. :) Good night @Sean, good night people! :)

Good night, @PauloCereda :)
Found a way to share a private link: latex.zeef.com/… Any resources/topics I'm missing?

12:51 AM
@AlanMunn OK. Yes. I thought you might say that. I assume you mean the capacity for language. Language itself would then be a further step? (Cultural step, maybe.)

7 hours later…
7:32 AM
@PauloCereda Thanks. For some reason it's not updated for LaTeX for 3 months.

@SeanAllred Nicola's books could be added under Learning. dickimaw-books.com/latex/index.html

2 hours later…
10:01 AM
Sometimes in old style books one comes across two stars in the middle of a page, or even one star, or some similar symbol, informally denoting the end of a section. Is there some convenient way to do this using LaTeX, or should I just hack it manually?

2 hours later…
11:56 AM
@FaheemMitha that's a good question. I don't think there's anything standard.
You can do something like this:
\makeatletter
\let\old@Faheem@section\section
\def\section{\ifnum\the\c@section>0\relax\par\putsectiondecoration\fi\old@Faheem@section}
\def\putsectiondecoration{\begin{center}***\end{center}}
\makeatother
@Fah ^^

12:21 PM
@yo' Would that work for the last section (i.e. a section not followed by another)?

@SeanAllred good question. No, it would not. But in that case, you may simply issue \putsectiondecoration manually

1:03 PM
@yo' Fancy, thanks.
@yo' should I ask a formal question?
@yo' Actually, I didn't mean section in the formal LaTeX sense. I just meant a part of the text one might want to separate from the following parts, for whatever reason.

1:37 PM
@yo' I tried a couple of different variations:
(1) {\begin{center}***\end{center}
(2) \hspace{0.4\textwidth} * \hspace{0.2\textwidth} *
A notable difference between (1) and (2) is that with (1), much of the text following the *** moves to the next page. This does happen with (2). As usual I don't know why.

@FaheemMitha the second one is wrong. If you want a "cheap alternative", then: \par\vskip6pt\par\noindent\leavevmode\hfill *\hspace{0.2\textwidth}*\hfill\par

@yo' "wrong" in what sense?
And what does "cheap" mean in this context?
@yo' that goes way off to the right.
The obvious question is why the centering env pushes all the text down. I'm sure there is a simple explanation.

1:54 PM
@Faheem RE putting stars or symbols to mark section breaks, see the Memoir manual pp 99-102 ("Fancy Anonymous Breaks")

@AndrewCashner can I do it separate from memoir? For that matter, can I do it separately from formal sections?

@Faheem You'd have to look at the code in the memoir source and see if you can pull it out on its own or adapt the basic principles in some way.

@AndrewCashner ok
Do you use memoir then?

@Faheem This would be a good question for the main site, especially if you ask for ornaments (which will attract people using pstricks ornaments and other graphics fans).
@Faheem Yes I used it for my dissertation.

@AndrewCashner Ok.
@AndrewCashner It's basically a class for longer documents, right? E.g. books. That's what I gleaned from the manual at any rate? Have you ever used the KOMA classes?
@AndrewCashner should just I phrase it as wanting a separator between two sections of text?
Ok, dinner time. Take care, everyone. Later.

1:59 PM
@Faheem Well it's ideal for more complex documents because it provides a more consistent interface for lots of commonly used features. But you can use it for one-page documents too. I haven't used KOMA classes.
@Faheem Yes, how do I put a decorative separator (like three asterisks or other symbols) between sections of text, not dependent on LateX \section commands?

@AndrewCashner I should give it a try.
@AndrewCashner Ok, I'll post that. Thanks.
@AndrewCashner I've been using KOMA, specifically the scrlttr2 class. Quite impressive. A lot of work must have gone into it.

@HarishKumar The reason why I gave a CW answer is explained by the OP's list of questions.

2:51 PM
Can someone tell me what font the memoir manual is written in, please? It looks pretty good.

@Faheem URW Palladio for the most part. pdffonts $(locate memman.pdf) | less @AndrewCashner Slick. Thanks. Actually, it lists a whole bunch of stuff. And just$(locate memman.pdf) doesn't work for this - it returns multiple results, and even when it doesn't, it doesn't just return the filename.

locate memman.pdf only gives me one result.

@AndrewCashner I get a bunch of hits. From chroot and a build source directory. I backported my current packages.

Just do texdoc memoir (or texdoc memman, the result is the same) and look at the properties in your PDF viewer. There are a lot of fonts in the document, but the main text document is definitely a Palatino-family font (which URW Palladio is, just like TeX Gyre Pagella).
@Faheem Are you using Debian repository packages for LaTeX or did you install directly from TUG?

2:58 PM
@AndrewCashner Ok. Looks like a good font, anyway. Looking at the source now to see if I can spot where the font was set.
@AndrewCashner Debian repos packages, but backported from unstable (at the time). I rebuilt the Debian sources on Wheezy. Wheezy doesn't have TL 2013.

@FaheemMitha It is defined in memfonts.sty; it's essentially a personalized version of \usepackage[sc,osf]{mathpazo}

Had some problems with biber (perl too recent).
@egreg Great, thank you. Personalized?
Is mathpazo a good font?

@FaheemMitha Yes, a bit changed. Don't know why.

@Faheem I have always had much better luck with just installing directly from TUG. But it's a personal preference. If it works for you, that's great.

@egreg ok

3:00 PM
@FaheemMitha It's Palatino with an accompanying math font.

@AndrewCashner I tend to use Debian packages if I can, and make them if I can't.
@egreg ok. Nothing exotic, then.

@FaheemMitha \usepackage{newpxtext,newpxmath} is better supported.

@egreg ok

@Faheem Me too, but I've seen that Debian's packaging of texlive causes lots of users problems on this site.

@AndrewCashner because I live on stable, I tend to end up doing quite a lot of backporting.
@AndrewCashner Really? Like what? Does any of it get reported to the packagers?
I say packagers, but really it is just Norbert.
I sent Norbert a bug report recently. He got quite upset over it. Maybe he was stressed.

3:03 PM
@Faheem Don't get me fired up on this topic, please. :) There's lots of questions on the site about it. Like I said, if it works for you, that's great.

@AndrewCashner Ok. I've not noticed anything myself.
On the site, I mean.
Just wondering what kinds of problems people were having.
I know that the site in general recommends the upstream version of TeX Live. But that is at least partly because stable's version is outdated. AFAIK people don't typically try to backport TeX Live themselves.

@FaheemMitha ah sorry, It should have been \par\vskip6pt\par\noindent\leavevmode\hfill *\hspace{0.2\textwidth}*\hfill\hbox{}\par

@Faheem You can't update or add individual packages, the whole set is years behind everybody else, most users on this site are using the most current TeXLive so it's hard to get support for problems that were resolved two years ago (the answer is just "update your distribution", which you can't really do); etc.

@yo' Ok, I'll try that. Thanks.
@AndrewCashner Actually, you can update by backporting, but I grant you that most people wouldn't consider that a possibility.
I'm actually debating whether to backport TL 2014 or wait for Jessie, which is scheduled to be released at the end of the month.
OTOH I don't know if I want to upgrade to Jessie right now, and risk breakage of a working system...

@Faheem Yeah, don't break it if it works!

3:08 PM
@AndrewCashner Exactly.
I switched to wheezy months after release, and that was only because my computer died and I had to set up a new one. I moved the hard disks over and I guess I could have carried on with squeeze, but it was a 32 bit distribution, and I decided to switch to wheezy with the new multiarch stuff.
If my computer hadn't died I might have carried on with wheezy for longer.

@Faheem This is the great thing about Linux---you the freedom to set things up how you like them.

@AndrewCashner Very true. Or Word, if you prefer. :-)

@Faheem I switched to Debian after Apple decided the only way to fix an upgrade error on my Mac was to wipe the whole thing and reinstall. At that point the word STABLE sounded very attractive. And I've been very glad about it.

@AndrewCashner Yes, Debian is great. Though not everyone thinks so. How long have you been using Debian?

@Faheem Word? (as in the slang expression or the software?)
@Faheem Full-time for a year, before that I dabbled with it in a virtual machine for a few months. I installed it dual-booting on a Macbook, but it was never very happy there. I bought an old Lenovo desktop for USD 80 and it runs beautifully on it. Later I installed Jessie on the Macbook, and with more recent drivers, Gnome, etc., it does work better with that hardware.
Do we have a canonical \includeonly answer? vvvv
0

I want to generate a pdf file containing just a single chapter from my dissertation. My first thought was to create a tex file with just the text from the chapter. \documentclass[msc, twoside, final]{Thesis} \begin{document} %single chapter text goes here \end{document} The problem with thi...

3:20 PM
@PauloCereda Welcome to the chat! Where have you been all day? :)

@AndrewCashner Slang expression. I'm trying to be street. :-)

@egreg Hi! :) I went to get my spare glasses. :)
What did I miss?

@PauloCereda No cricket: David went at Stratford, I guess.

@egreg Oh I forgot, he went to see crazy inventions. :)

@PauloCereda Yeah, and to pay a visit to old Bill.

3:24 PM
@AndrewCashner a canonical one would likely not help for a specific university thesis class

@yo' I just meant something we could use to mark that question as a duplicate. Unless the OP shows something specific to his thesis class.

@AndrewCashner he mentions it in the text. We should probably comment it :-)
Also, there are other solutions, it should be possible to exclude some pages using pgfpages, but I don't know how

@yo' Oh I see. Didn't read carefully enough. He wants to omit the frontmatter stuff.

@AndrewCashner yes

@AndrewCashner Ah, so you are a recent convert. :-) You didn't consider Ubuntu? It is popular.
@yo' that looks good, thanks.
I once had a friend ask me (before I first installed Debian for him) whether he was going to be part of a cult.
I told him he didn't have to be if he didn't want to be.
@AndrewCashner what are the specs of your Lenovo desktop? Just curious.

3:35 PM
@egreg ooh true!

@Faheem I tried Ubuntu before, but for work I wanted the simplest, leanest, most stable thing I could find, and Debian seemed a better fit for that than Ubuntu. Just my own preference.
@Faheem Intel Core2 Duo CPU @3GHz x 2, 4 GB ram

@AndrewCashner That's pretty good specs for \$80.
@AndrewCashner Debian is better than Ubuntu in most ways that matter, but people want something shiny with guis and good out of the box hardware support.

@Faheem A guy found it in the trash at the university and refurbished it. I got very lucky to see his ad online.

@AndrewCashner Cool.
You can find good stuff in trash sometimes.
You probably notice Debian runs faster and better than Windows on the same hardware.

@Faheem The hardware support certainly is a problem. So a few years' old computer works better than a new one. And I can't get my scanner to work with Debian.

3:45 PM
@AndrewCashner There is a unix.sx site. I don't think it excels in HW support (its heart is in things like shell scripts) but you could try there. Or you could try me. I started using Linux in 1998 and switched to Debian in 2001, so I have some experience.
There are also a few good people on the unix.sx site, but it usually works better if you poke them in chat - otherwise they might not notice your question. Of course, if helps if you "know" them.

@Faheem Thanks

@AndrewCashner what is your scanner make/model?

@Faheem Oh it's not a big deal now. I mostly use it for financial stuff, which I still do on the Mac so other family members can access it.

@AndrewCashner ok

4:07 PM
@FaheemMitha @AndrewCashner The real problem with the way all the Linux distros treat TeX is that they fail to distinguish between TeX packages and distro packages. Here's what I wrote about MacPorts, but the same critique applies to all Linux distributions.

@AlanMunn So you think that you the correct thing to do have Debian package only the basic TL distribution? That might be a valid viewpoint, but is not the way Debian normally does things.
But does tlmgr support upgrading of individual TeX packages? What about cross-dependency breakages?
Does tlmgr have any concept of dependencies between packages?

@FaheemMitha Although there are sometimes dependency issues in TeX packages, they are quite rare, and no, tlmgr has no such concept.

@FaheemMitha -- (coming to the party late ...) there are two tugboat articles that address ornaments: peter flynn, typographers' in 31:1 and peter wilson, glisterings in 32:2. not tied to formal sectioning.

@AlanMunn ok
@barbarabeeton Ok. Would you care to post an answer along those lines?

@FaheemMitha -- okay. what's the question (haven't found it yet).

4:15 PM
0

How do I put a decorative separator (like three asterisks or other symbols) in a text document so as to separate two sections of text, but not in a way that depends on LateX \section commands? Such symbols used to be relatively common in books, but seem less common now. Credits: thanks to @Andr...

@FaheemMitha But the point of my comments was to say that saying 'this is not how we do things' makes no sense if TeX packages are not the same kind of package as those that Debian should control. And TeX packages are qualitatively different, therefore Debian should just stick to what it does well, namely deal with binaries.

@AlanMunn I don't decide Debian policy. It is what it is. I'm fuzzy about what Policy has to say about this sort of thing, but it is certainly true that for example R and CL are handled in a more modular fashion in Debian. Debian doesn't try to package all of CRAN in one enormous bundle. :-) And CL seems to be increasingly moving away from Debian-style packaging.
(CL == Common Lisp)
Really, Debian's main focus is on making things work well with each other. Which in practice means it tries to control/package everything. This doesn't scale, unfortunately.

@FaheemMitha Yes, I think the R model is similar (although I don't know how Debian does R). But if Debian allows one to update and install R packages through R rather than through the package manager (which I assume it must), then it should treat TeX packages in exactly the same way.

@AlanMunn I think we could do what's done with msttcorefonts -- the Debian contains only the installer. You have to run the installer yourself.

@yo' That's because msttcorefonts is non-free and cannot be distributed.
@AlanMunn Debian packages the R core in one big chunk, and the other libraries are packaged individually. Historically Dirk has handled a great deal of that. I think he has some automation scripts for creating Debian packages. But it is certainly more modular than the Debian TL packaging.

4:21 PM
@FaheemMitha yes. But if Debian decides to suck, this is a way to get around it: install just tl-install and/or tlmgr, and possibly the binaries.

@yo' Debian doesn't suck. But they can be difficult sometimes.

@FaheemMitha But you still install the R packages via Debian's package manager and not via R itself? This seems crazy to me.

@Faheem I wrote two ornament/break answers for you.

Sorry, but telling us that LPPL is not a free license is a sign of going mad.

@AlanMunn Right on!

4:25 PM
@AndrewCashner I'm glad I use a Mac.

@AlanMunn Maybe that sounded sarcastic. I meant it sincerely.

@AndrewCashner :)
@yo' Debian acknowledges LPPL as a free licence, (otherwise it wouldn't package TeX Live) so that can't be the reason in this case.

@AlanMunn but there was some fuss about it IIRC

@AlanMunn You can install R packages either way. Debian doesn't stop you. Debian doesn't stop you from doing anything.

@yo' Yes there was a huge debate about it some years ago, but it did finally get resolved.

4:34 PM
Once you have installed the core R system, you can chooose to install either the Debian R binary packages or use R's own package management system to install packages. It is your choice.

@AlanMunn yeah, but that's always the case with Debian. They're always the ones who are the PITA

@FaheemMitha Well in TeX it does: it doesn't install tlmgr so you can't manage your distribution properly. :)

@AlanMunn I have tlmgr installed here.
I have never used it, though.

@FaheemMitha Installed as part of the Debian package?

@FaheemMitha -- thanks for link. done.

4:35 PM
@FaheemMitha the only advantage for installing distro TeX is that it's one command instead of two or three. The disadvantages are many.

@AlanMunn Yes.
@yo' Actually, I was talking about R there. :-)
Looks like that decorators question is a dupe.
@AndrewCashner I like your curly symbol. Where is that from?

@Faheem psvectorian

@AndrewCashner Is that the font?
Looks like there are two dupes, in fact.

@Faheem It's a package that allows you to include premade PostScript drawings as ornaments, borders, etc. There are a few questions about it on the site.

@AndrewCashner Oh, ok. So the symbol comes from that package?
@yo' Being Debian is a thankless task. They are always getting brickbats thrown at them.
Yes, they can be a little difficult sometimes.

4:45 PM
@Faheem Yes, texdoc psvectorian. The documentation is in French but the code is in LaTeX. The symbols are all there by number, so in the simplest usage you just put \psvectorian[width=1em]{2} for your desired width and symbol number.

@AndrewCashner Cool. Thank you.
Maybe mention in your answer that {2} defines the ornament. That isn't obvious.

@FaheemMitha They are very difficult, I'm tempted to say, worse than women.

@yo' Oh ho. That's a large claim.
Some of them actually are women. :-)
@AndrewCashner your curly thingys are delightfully old-fashioned. I'm a sucker for anything that makes me think of the 19th century. Though I wouldn't want to live there...
The name Peter Flynn seems familiar, somehow.

@AndrewCashner maybe the very short guide.

4:57 PM
@FaheemMitha ah he's from Cork, that's a famous town

@yo' nice name too.

@FaheemMitha :D

5:16 PM
@SeanAllred Bought a Git book (the O'Reilly one as the bookshop had it): will read properly over the coming days

5:32 PM
@yo' -- hmmmph. men can be difficult too. or at least frustratingly incomprehensible.

@barbarabeeton I know. Sorry for this cliché sexism

@JosephWright :D

@AndrewCashner I'm trying to use psvectorian. Unfortunately I get an incomprehensible error saying that \ornamentbreak is not defined. Is there some reason this might not work with scrlttr2?
@AndrewCashner sadly, it appears this only works with dvi/ps. Haven't looked at a dvi file in years. How that takes me back.
Any idea where I might find an equivalent version for PDF?

6:02 PM
@AndrewCashner good news! I found that same symbol here -> altermundus.com/pages/tkz/ornament/index.html

6:19 PM
Unfortunately this package is not part of TeX Live.
What is needed to make a package part of TeX Live?

@FaheemMitha Needs to be on CTAN and have a free license

@JosephWright Oh. And pgfornaments doesn't?

@FaheemMitha Is it on CTAN?

@JosephWright Doesn't look like it.

@Faheem As I said in the question, make a standalone document with just the psvectorian symbol in it, format that with latex file.tex && dvips file.dvi && ps2pdf file.ps. Then you can include the symbol in the main document like any graphics file, and you can compile with any engine.

6:27 PM
@AndrewCashner Oh, you said that in the question? I guess I missed it.

@Faheem Did you include the \newcommand{\ornamentbreak} part of my answer?

@AndrewCashner I did. It works with latex but not with pdflatex, so it is not a syntax error - just TeX being weirdly unhelpful.
Try it with pdflatex yourself - I think you will get the same error.

@Faheem Oh I see. Yes, psvectorian is like pstricks; it doesn't work with pdflatex.

@AndrewCashner Indeed. Major Bummer.
Does that curly doohickey have a name? It looks familar. I've seen it places before.

@Faheem I would call it a leaf.

6:32 PM
@AndrewCashner It should have a more exotic, preferably Latin, name.

@FaheemMitha @AndrewCashner Most pstricks code will run with XeLaTeX, (which will also run most things that require pdfLaTeX, if that's an option.

@AlanMunn I see. Interesting.

@AlanMunn Talking of XeLaTeX, did you say the TeXworks 'running secondary tools' issue on the Mac seems to be fixed?

@JosephWright ? 'say' or 'see' ? I don't recall saying anything...

@AlanMunn s/say/see/g

6:35 PM
:) Ok. no I didn't see that. Is there an answer of mine I should update?

@AlanMunn No, wasn't that
@AlanMunn Just saying as this means XeLaTeX will work properly from TeXworks again :-)
@AlanMunn Has been a bit of a pain since Yosemite came out as xdvipdfmx didn't spawn

@Faheem folium?

@JosephWright Ah, ok. I don't use TeXworks, and I haven't updated anything to Yosemite except my server, which I don't use for regular things.

@AlanMunn I know you don't use TeXworks but as you do use a Mac I thought you might be interested
@AlanMunn Key thing for me is it should get us back to being able to say TeXworks can be used across platforms

@AndrewCashner hmm. that's got the obscure thing down.

6:40 PM
@JosephWright I guess I wasn't aware of the problem (or if I once was, I've forgotten about it) But I am a fan of promoting a cross-platform IDEs for beginners especially.

@AlanMunn Indeed

@JosephWright So perhaps a new answer to this question is in order?

@AlanMunn Probably wait until the fixed binary is available from the official download site: this has only just been circulated!
2

I installed vim-latex using pathogen following the very clear instructions proposed in: How to install vim-latex? However, when I open a .tex file using MacVim, I get the following error message: Error detected while processing ~/.vim/bundle/vim-latex-1.8.23-20130116.788-git2ef9956/ftplugin/la...

On topic?

@JosephWright OT and one year old. I moreover suspect that it's self-answered

6:46 PM
@JosephWright yeah I see the situation

@egreg I hope you don't mind, I added a list of common substitutefont Greek font family names to your answer, mostly because I have to keep looking them up myself.

@JosephWright I think it's on topic enough. It's not going to attracts lots of other answers, and perhaps others using MacVim and LaTeX might encounter it. Not much to be gained from closing it, I should think.

@AlanMunn OK: there's a reason I tend to ask ;-)

7:08 PM
Nesting time. Taken outside my building today.
@PauloCereda ^^^^^

@AlanMunn awwww <3

7:24 PM
@AlanMunn Cute. Spring in Michigan?

@FaheemMitha Michigan doesn't really have spring, but yes, this is the closest thing we have.

@AlanMunn Straight from winter to summer? :-)
Sounds a bit like Chicago, actually.

@FaheemMitha More or less. Not quite that bad, but there's no long beautiful spring like where you are.

@AlanMunn Where I am? We don't get spring either. It's mostly hot or wet. Sometimes both.

@FaheemMitha Aren't you in NC?

7:27 PM
@AlanMunn Nope.

@FaheemMitha Did you used to be?

@AlanMunn For a long time, yes.

@FaheemMitha Ah, ok. Your student page at UNC still comes up as the first google hit for your name...

@PauloCereda @Alan :-)

@AlanMunn Indeed it does. I don't understand why it still exists.

7:31 PM
@FaheemMitha So my comments were about Spring in NC, which is beautiful.

@AlanMunn yes, NC is pretty nice. Well, the parts of it I was in. In other parts, you get rednecks, which is not so nice.

@AndrewCashner Thanks!

The Triangle is a pretty good place to be. Or it was when I was there. Nothing stays the same forever.

@egreg I finally decided I think bodoni looks better with Libertine than artemisia does.

@FaheemMitha Yes, I agree. I taught at UNC for a year.

7:41 PM
@AlanMunn when was that?

@FaheemMitha 1992-93. The year I finished my thesis.

I won't respond much now, the film Amadeus starts :-)

@egreg On the conditional business, I'm not really sure what the real aim is!

@JosephWright you managed not to destroy Oxfordshire I assume

@DavidCarlisle Thus far
@DavidCarlisle Last night of experiment tonight

7:47 PM
@JosephWright well as long as you leave North Oxfordshire untouched:-)

@DavidCarlisle: How was the visit? :)

@PauloCereda couldn't get him out:-) It's very weird with lots of cogs, marble runs, automata of various sorts, weird clocks. Well worth a visit:-)

@DavidCarlisle yay!

@AndrewCashner The link @barbarabeeton posted has some strange and wonderful font, with the improbable name of web-o-mints, and that contains that leaf image, or something very like it - tug.org/TUGboat/tb32-2/tb101glister.pdf
Debian does not seem to be able to locate it though. Bummer.
Maybe it got taken out because it wasn't non-free.