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1:39 AM
@egreg Are you up early or late?
7 hours later…
8:23 AM
@yo' You're in the wrong chat room. :-) Try the Frying Pan.
8:35 AM
Happy Easter :-)
(For those who celebrate it, of course)
(Perhaps 'celebrate' is the wrong word!)
9:06 AM
@JosephWright Happy Easter to you too.
@JosephWright Well, someone coming back from the dead is always a reason to celebrate. It happens so rarely.
I'm trying to figure out how to adjust the space for scrheadings.
Not finding anything yet.
I'm trying to be a good boy and searching the manual. As we all know, the virtuous are suitably punished.
@FaheemMitha :-)
Looks like headheight might work. Score one for tex.sx.
Apparently not headheight. Bummer.
9:29 AM
Is "Answer the Unanswered" on any kind of schedule? I haven't seen it happen recently.
@JosephWright did someone ask about \typein?
9:49 AM
Happy Easter to all!
@FaheemMitha I proposed to move it to next Saturday, as it coincided with Holy Saturday.
Ha, headinclude did the trick. That's really not well-documented.
@egreg Move what?
Is today Easter Sunday?
@FaheemMitha The “unanswered” session
@FaheemMitha Yes
@egreg you should have moved easter, it moves around anyway
@egreg Ah, Ok. Does the "unanswered" thing operate on a regular schedule, or is a "whenever" thing?
@DavidCarlisle I guess egreg must be even more powerful than I imagined.
@DavidCarlisle Sorry, I may be older than you, but I was not at Nicaea in 325 AD.
9:55 AM
@egreg Nicaea in 325 AD.?
Oh, the Council.
@FaheemMitha he's just being modest. I expect he was there.
@DavidCarlisle Not a great time to be in Europe. Too much religion and disease. No computers.
Also no plumbing or medicine.
But the date of Easter was important.
@FaheemMitha Yes, when the date of Easter was determined as the first Sunday after the first full moon in Spring (that is 21 March or later).
@egreg Yes, I see.
@FaheemMitha In 2038 it will be as late as possible: 25 April.
10:02 AM
@egreg how do you figure that?
@FaheemMitha Consulting a list
@egreg oh. I thought you might have calculated it.
@DavidCarlisle Karl
@FaheemMitha First Saturday of the month unless there is a reason to move ti
Joseph Wright has added an event to this room's schedule.
@JosephWright he ought to know why it was there:-) so are we going to sneak in an update to doc and the base tds.zip before TL2015 pretest?
10:11 AM
@DavidCarlisle Yes
@DavidCarlisle I'm expecting to update it during the pretest, too, but had said I'd give it about a week (so around Wednesday)
@JosephWright OK good, Petra will be pleased
@DavidCarlisle I know :-)
@DavidCarlisle Once these teething issues are sorted it will be easy: I send a lot of updates for beamer, siunitx, etc.
@egreg Happy Easter!
Happy Easter, friends!
@JosephWright ok
@PauloCereda To you too! And to your family.
10:25 AM
@PauloCereda same to you!
/group hug
@JosephWright sounds very reasonable to wait a few days :-)
10:43 AM
@StefanKottwitz Am thinking about your mail
@SeanAllred Am thinking about your mail too!
@SeanAllred git stuff?
@JosephWright Great! I sent you another one, just two lines :-)
@JosephWright so, did Philipp Lehman literally just vanish? Without saying goodbye, even?
@FaheemMitha Yes: no-one knows what happened to him
@JosephWright Wow. That's so strange.
@JosephWright is this fixltx2e a going concern, or a theoretical construct?
10:55 AM
@FaheemMitha ?
@FaheemMitha fixltx2e has been around for many years
@JosephWright Oh. Never heard of it before.
@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright's blog. I can't figure out how to get a link.
@FaheemMitha That's why we've had a change of plan
So, do people use it then? I'm guessing not.
Is altering existing documents such a terrible thing?
10:57 AM
@FaheemMitha some do some don't
@JosephWright that's the one.
@JosephWright your blog presentations if complex data s/if/of/
@FaheemMitha in some contexts, yes
@DavidCarlisle Fixed
Is vimeo.com/113430065 really a video with no video?
@FaheemMitha they are recordings of audio stream, plus slides from the talk
11:00 AM
@FaheemMitha It's got pictures
@DavidCarlisle Oh, I see.
@FaheemMitha I don't have a splitter to grab the screen nor a camera, etc. for 'live' video. It's a technical compromise :-)
@JosephWright In case I would vanish watch general news about airplane crash or ship sinking :-o my usual work places besides office and yards
@DavidCarlisle you sound sort of North English. But I could be wrong.
@StefanKottwitz :-)
11:01 AM
@FaheemMitha Nottinghamshire, so geographically sort of central but culturally aligned with the north
@StefanKottwitz PL was not in DANTE, TUG or anything, so no-one has a 'real' address, nor do we know where he worked. Makes life hard.
@DavidCarlisle Your accent would place you a bit further south I'd guess
I'm surprised someone can vanish with nobody knowing. Did people not know where he worked, common acquaintances, and so forth?
@JosephWright spent a long time in Manchester:-)
@FaheemMitha There is one person who might have met him some years ago, but nothing definite
@FaheemMitha We looked hard
I've got a rough idea how Northerners talk, though my only time in the UK was spent in Cambridge.
11:03 AM
@JosephWright Indeed. It could be a simple change of life plan together with intentionally leaving TeX
Probably not representative of the UK as a whole.
@StefanKottwitz I think he'd have said
@JosephWright Sounds like a private person.
@FaheemMitha I've no idea: might just have kept things separate
@JosephWright I believe you. It's unfortunate.
We've got people like that on SE. They refuse to divulge any personal details.
11:04 AM
@JosephWright I just hope so, hopefully nothing bad happened. Sometimes people go away just because of an insult, but that we would know I guess
@DavidCarlisle Did you do the business about math groups in the end? (See the GitHub comment yesterday)
@StefanKottwitz In that case, why not say goodbye? Though granted, people don't always do it, even if nothing bad has happened. Maybe they think they will come back.
E.g. Daniel Burrows stopped working on Aptitude in 2011. And is apparently alive and well - was just looking at his Google+ page (no idea why anyone uses that). But he didn't post an formal signoff, nothing. Just stopped working on it.
@FaheemMitha I assume he did respond in some way to people asking him
@JosephWright yes math alphabets should work up to 255, symbol fonts up to 16
@DavidCarlisle Ah, cool
11:09 AM
@JosephWright i think the new Aptitude maintainers were trying to get in touch with him, but he didn't reply. Maybe they should have tried Google+. I've looked for Debian activity from him after 2011 and there doesn't seem to be any.
Presumably some of you here are familiar with apt.
@FaheemMitha Ah right
@FaheemMitha Yes
@FaheemMitha Yes, I use apt a alot
@StefanKottwitz All Debian users do, I guess.
@DavidCarlisle ooh Mancunian accent? :)
Manchester is still North England, right?
11:11 AM
@PauloCereda nah can't do one of those (mancunian accents were not that common in the University, although I may possibly sometimes have frequented the local pubs...)
@FaheemMitha yes was a Joke really, It's north of where I grew up
ooh :) I want to visit a pub when I finally go to England. :)
@DavidCarlisle ooh that's fancy. :)
with Parma ham, salami, duck and olives
@DavidCarlisle: ^^ OH NO!
@PauloCereda Parma ham is typical English.
@egreg But they include ducks! :)
11:17 AM
@DavidCarlisle ok
@DavidCarlisle yum.
1 hour later…
12:33 PM
Which package converts arabic numbers to roman numbers? I am scratching my head but I think I forgot. Anybody remembers from on top of head?
@HarishKumar You can display the value of a counter in roman numbers with \roman/\Roman.
1:05 PM
@TorbjørnT. It is not a counter. Heiko already nailed it. But still I am curious. I am talking about this: tex.stackexchange.com/questions/236923/…
@TorbjørnT. Thanks.
@AlanMunn -- another distinction between "pie" and "tart" is the shape of the crust. a tart usually has a vertical edge (as in the picture of the linked lemon tart), while a pie typically has a sloped edge, with the top of the pie wider than the bottom. and there are some "uncovered" pies that i would never consider to be tarts (and would find very peculiar if covered): pumpkin or squash, banana cream, and the kind of cream pie that is used to throw in someone's face.
"boston cream pie" is something else again; it's really a cake, the wikipedia description is pretty good.
@egreg -- i think it might just actually be possible a day later. my mother had memories (and pictures) of a snowstorm in baltimore on april 19, which was her birthday, and, coincidentally that year, palm sunday. so easter would have been april 26. (but april 25 is pretty close to "latest".)
@FaheemMitha -- if you're a publisher, and have to exhume old papers to publish an author's "collected works", altering existing documents is a very bad thing!
1:23 PM
@barbarabeeton That's true for maths, but in almost any other area you'd expect to re-typeset stuff in any case
If you did it at all
@JosephWright -- kindly remember that tex was created largely because of math, so for math publishers (still just a small audience, on the outer edges of "penalty copy") this is a big deal.
@barbarabeeton Don't worry, I'm very mindful of this
@barbarabeeton If the full moon happens on 20 March and the next is a long moon, the next full moon is 29 days later, that is, 18 April. If 18 April happens to be a Sunday, Easter is on 25 April. It's not possible it falls later. Conversely, if the full moon is on 21 March and it's on a Saturday, Easter is on 22 March.
1:39 PM
@egreg -- i don't disbelieve you. i just know that the occasion i mentioned was backed up by a newspaper that my mother had saved. someday when i have lots of free time, i'll undertake to find the article in the newspaper's morgue.
@egreg -- another question on the timing of easter: what accounts for the difference in when easter is celebrated according to the eastern and western rites? it sometimes happens that they do not coincide. (this means that we get to enjoy the special treats from both traditions, and don't have to choose.)
1:54 PM
I got no chocolate. :(
@JosephWright :)
@FaheemMitha Yes indeed. :)
@JosephWright By the way, I read part of that texdev article on floats/inserts. Am I naïve in thinking that floats can be stored in an l3seq?
Hello, how do I know another user was notified with an additional comment/question by me to a topic ?
@hillbilly Use the @-notify thingy :)
Oh, wait – misread
They were notified, I promise :) If you used completion, then it's a definite thing :)
@SeanAllred - I used that but it was auto removed like described here meta.stackexchange.com/questions/43019/…
well completion did not work on that user
@hillbilly There are certain cases where it will be removed. If the other person is currently the only one in the conversation or it's their answer, then they will always be notified.
In those cases, it's removed because it's just extra textual noise :)
2:05 PM
@SeanAllred OK thanks!
@hillbilly :)
Btw what kind of chat is this? I am asking because Firefox notifies me about messages on desktop (I think webIRC doesn't do that in such a nice way)
@hillbilly I'm afraid I don't have the technical knowledge to distinguish between different types of chats
I do know that it ties into Chrome's desktop notification system as well
@SeanAllred nvm; it's of no importance
@hillbilly :P
2:11 PM
rebooting, ciao!
@barbarabeeton The Orthodox Churches still use the Julian Calendar, so 21 March is 13 days later than ours. The rule for determining Easter is the same, but with this delay.
@egreg Does the Julian calendar not start on (the Gregorian) Jan 1?
@egreg however, we don't fix ourselves on 21 March, but on the equinox moment. Once it happened that the equinox was only minutes from a new moon, which meant that the IAU had to decide/clarify
time is a fickle thing
@SeanAllred Yes, of course. But they refused the calendar reform, so they didn't cut the 10 days and the 3 non leap secular years in between, which means their church calendar is out of phase by 13 days. So they have Christmas on (our) 7 January, but, as far as Church is concerned, it's 25 December.
2:19 PM
@egreg My head hurts :)
@yo' I believe that the Catholic church just uses 21 March as convention, even if the equinox is on 20 March.
@egreg I'm sure that the time of the national holidays in European states is the one given by the relative position of the equinox, the full moon (sorry, not new moon of course) and the Sunday midnight, as determined by IAU.
@yo' Using the exact equinox could mean that different countries could have Easter almost one month apart.
I had always thought it was closely tied to which week Easter Sunday fell upon, which is in turn based on the astronomical full moon.
Oy, I'm confusing myself X(
@egreg not true. Equinox is the moment when the center of the sun crosses the astronomical equator and is independent of the location. So is the full moon moment of course.
2:24 PM
@barbarabeeton But they must be extremely minor and cosmetic changes.
@yo' It could be Sunday somewhere and Saturday or Monday elsewhere.
@egreg ah yes, this can be a problem, lemme check
@SeanAllred The difference just depends on the different calendars used. Since the Nicaea Council decided that the date to consider is 21 March (possibly at Jerusalem, but I'm not sure) and not the astronomical start of Spring, confusion ensues.
@PopeFrancis could you help us understand this holy math? :)
@yo' The bishops at Nicaea were not astronomers. ;-)
2:32 PM
@egreg I have a hard time (ha!) keeping straight the differences in time zones – I don't need to add calendars to the mix :) I can trust everybody knows when they celebrate holidays and go 'woo!' when needed :)
To me, getting the exact date right is paying attention to the wrong sorts of things :)
@FaheemMitha -- to ensure reproducibility, the ams stores within the document the version of latex and of every package used, so that a document can be recompiled even years later with no changes except for page numbers and perhaps application of errata. the goal is exact correspondence of line and page breaks, and those can easily vary with just the use of a different version of a single package.
even reprints are re-texed, and copy-checked for breaks; any difference would require a new proofreading, which is not cost effective!
@egreg they were, to some extent. So were old Jews for determining whether a new month has started. They counted 28 days, then they waited for the raising new moon. If they didn't see the small crescent, they announced a 29-day month and the new month started one day later.
@barbarabeeton ok. Is "exact correspondence of line and page breaks" an AMS policy decision?
@egreg -- i don't know what happens in other parts of the world, but in this country, i'm pretty sure the first day of spring is celebrated on the actual vernal equinox (although i'm not sure according to what time zone). so it's not always march 21.
@yo' That works for a small region; not for the whole world. So you have to decide for some meridian and stick to that independently of local time.
2:38 PM
@egreg that's what's done, I'm just not sure whether the time used is GMT or Vatican.
@barbarabeeton It can be March 20 or 21.
Let's talk about cricket. :)
And ducks.
ooh ducks playing cricket!
@FaheemMitha -- yes, a polilcy decision that breaks should be the same. this is a policy of long standing, and it became much more important now that there is "dual publication", on-line and on paper. as i've said before, math has a long shelf life, and it's not unusual to have citations to documents even a century or more old.
@PauloCereda -- those must be odd ducks!
@egreg -- yes, which is why one has to check the calendar every year.
@barbarabeeton :)
@yo' In summary, it's all conventional. ;-) With more precise astronomical data than were available before year 1000, it could be possible to have a more accurate determination according to the rule, but since the rule is already a convention, why bother?
@yo' The calendar reform was made just in order to avoid that Easter could fall too late in Spring, for instance because agriculture work was based on Easter. For the Eastern churches, Easter can fall as late as May 8 (May 9 after 2099).
2:47 PM
@egreg well, you need to make it clear
@egreg but it's because they don't base it on astronomy. If they did, the shift would be at most one week.
@yo' England/Wales has legislation in place to fix the date of Easter as a public holiday: never been enacted
@yo' Not really. There are other factors involved. For instance, the Paschal moon this year was yesterday (April 4), which should have made Easter the same for Eastern and Western churches, but the “official” full moon, with the calendar used by the Orthodox is later. ;-)
@JosephWright and is it always the same as in continental Europe?
@yo' Yes: the CoE split from Rome over something other than Easter ;-)
@JosephWright ok, then it conforms to what IAU proposes.
2:53 PM
@yo' The Orthodox don't use astronomy at all: they use a fixed calendar, independent of astronomical data. And they don't bother if their full moon is not really full.
@yo' We no longer have Whitsun (Pentecost) as a movable feast
@egreg yeah, I know. This is the strange part
@JosephWright nobody has really. Pentecost is simply something like first Sunday after May 18th everywhere now.
@yo' Erm, I meant the bank holiday (Monday): Spring Bank Holiday is the last Monday of May
@yo' Remember, as I'm in the UK I tend to think of public holidays in terms of Mondays
@yo' Don't see why we did this to be honest: either you fix both Easter and Whit or you fix neither
@JosephWright I think it's not bad this way, at least here, because we've got no other public holidays in March and April, but we've got 2 Holidays on May (other than Pentecost, which is not a Holiday here).
@barbarabeeton I see.
3:03 PM
@yo' We've got two in May too :-)
@JosephWright i think everybody it Europe have
@yo' Probably nowadays, though some people here would like to move the early May holiday
@JosephWright it used to be May 1st and 9th, which is 1 weekday apart, it was good. Now it's 1st and 8th, which sucks.
@yo' We have first and last Monday in May
@JosephWright ah
all holidays there are Mondays?
3:07 PM
@yo' Other than Christmas/Boxing Day and Good Friday, yes
@yo' This year Boxing Day is a Saturday so we'll get the following Monday as a bank holiday in lieu
@yo' Like I said, in the UK that's how we think: I expect public holidays = Mondays :-)
@yo' Not here. ;-)
@JosephWright -- oh, i wish! in the u.s., there is a "presidents' day" holiday in february, which the ams doesn't observe. next before that is "martin luther king day", on a monday in mid-january, and after that, it's a drought until "memorial day", the monday nearest to may 31. these are federal holidays; different localities and school systems have their own schedules. (i keep suggesting april 1 for an ams "special", but nobody listens.)
@egreg neither here :p
@barbarabeeton Our big gap is August bank holiday (last Monday in August) to Christmas day (the latter isn't a bank holiday, it's a customary holiday, so we don't get one in lieu it if it's at the weekend)
@JosephWright we've got quite a handful of national holidays here, but there're no substitutes: if it's weekend, it's weekend.
3:13 PM
@yo' Ah
It's 1.1., Easter Monday, 1.5., 8.5., 5.7., 6.7., 28.9., 28.10., 17.11., 24.12., 25.12., 26.12.
@yo' Moreover, we don't have holidays around Whitsun, so it doesn't really matter. We used to have holiday for the Ascension (Thursday, 40 days after Easter) and Corpus Domini (second thursday after the Ascension). Now they're moved to the nearest Sunday. So the sixth Sunday of Easter time is Ascension and the Sunday after Trinity is Corpus Domini.
@egreg neither do we -- or do you see any in the list above? :-)
and remember: we're atheists ;)
@JosephWright -- fall here is just dripping with holidays! "labor day" (first monday in september), in some places, "columbus day" (monday nearest october 13), "veterans day" (formerly armistice day, monday nearest november 11), "thanksgiving" (fourth thursday in movember, and at ams, the following friday), then christmas (december 25, if on a weekend, so be it).
in rhode island, "victory day" (end of wwii, truce with japan, monday closest to august 6); i expect that will vanish within the next few years, since ri is the only state to observe it.
@barbarabeeton Like I say, there was some talk of moving one (early May holiday), but that got stymied on the grounds late October/early November is not a good day to have off in England!
@barbarabeeton Like I said, we loose Christmas Day if it's on a weekend as it's not technically a bank holiday (it was a holiday before they were introduced)
3:26 PM
@yo' When I was a boy, we had a wealth of school holidays. School started October 1, ending mid June. The holidays were 4.10*, 1.11, 2.11*, 4.11, 8.12, 22.12-6.1 (Christmas holidays), 11.2*, 19.3, Easter holidays from Maundy Thursday to Easter Monday, 25.4, 1.5, Ascension, Corpus Domini, 2.6. Not all were work holidays (marked *), but for them you had to add 1.1, 6.1, Easter Monday, 29.6 and 15.8. Good days!
@egreg :-)
@egreg the children have a handful of extra holidays: 8-9 weeks in summer, 2 days in autumn, 1-2 weeks for December, 1 day in January, 1 week in February-March, 2 days for Easter.
@JosephWright Later it was decided to cut on holidays. ;-) So now we have 1.1, 6.1, Easter Monday, 25.4*, 1.5*, 2.6*, 15.8, 1.11, 8.12, 25.12, 26.12. The three marked * are civil holidays.
@egreg Not Good Friday?
@JosephWright No. It's still school holiday, though.
3:30 PM
@egreg Odd (at least to me)
@egreg Ah
@egreg we've got a handful of holidays that are "National History" and not "Christian"
@egreg similar here. Thursday and Friday for children, Monday for everybody
@yo' Here, the Good Friday holiday is the old one, Easter Monday only since the late 1800s
@JosephWright here it used to be that both were holidays. These were the good ol' days when we were Christians.
@yo' We have a common law basis, so Good Friday and Christmas Day are safe :-)
@JosephWright :-)
3:37 PM
@JosephWright Yes, I can't exclude it was holiday in some Italian State before 1861; it probably wasn't in Piedmont, so when Italy was unified, it was dropped anyway, because laws of Piedmont were extended to the whole new State. But the matter has always been very variable during time.
@egreg That's not why I think it's odd: the Monday is not the religious day, it's the Friday
@JosephWright Yes, but it used to be the second day of Easter. Like Boxing Day was the second day of Christmas.
@egreg: just watched on TV a mass in the Maronite rite. :)
@egreg I can only go on my knowledge of the CoE approach, where Good Friday and Easter Sunday are important on religious grounds
@PauloCereda It must be very interesting.
3:40 PM
@egreg It is! :) I just didn't get any words at all. :)
@PauloCereda Don't you speak fluent Syriac?
@egreg Not even fluent Portuguese. :)
@barbarabeeton Ah, you've solved my class of exceptions to the 'pies are uncovered' rule. Yes, that's exactly right. And in fact the sloping vs. vertical side part is really the main distinction with the added proviso that tarts are never covered, I think.
3:57 PM
@AlanMunn -- happy to be of service. i did ignore the "half covered" instance where a pie has an openwork lattice on top. i certainly don't remember ever having seen a "regular" crust on a tart, although i believe i've seen decorative elements of crust, like leaves. but now that i think of it, "pop-tarts" are fully wrapped in crust. (if they weren't, they couldn't be put in a popup toaster. they seem to be a commercial adaptation of a "pasty", a pastry-wrapped, hand-holdable edible.)
@barbarabeeton I think pop-tarts are in the same category as sweet-tarts. :)
@Qrrbrbirlbel Hi! Long time no see!
@cfr I like your sample sentence for the cfr-initials package. ;-) Nice work!
4:23 PM
@AlanMunn Hi :)
@egreg A fan of Kant?!
@FrankMittelbach: Happy birthday, Frank!
@cfr Of kantlipsum. ;-)
5:16 PM
Anybody know a bit about emacs' font-locking? I've hit a bit of a snafoo while working on expl3-mode emacs.stackexchange.com/q/10528/2264
Q: Can I apply a face to an optional group?

Sean AllredWhen I try to execute the following, font-lock fails abruptly after it matches the first group. A little bit of debugging with the neat tool font-lock-studio and I realized that font-lock is upset that it can't find group 2. How can I tell it not to freak out? (define-derived-mode expl3-mode p...

5:28 PM
@AlanMunn Promoting yourself, aren't you? :D
@yo' I suspect that many, many duplicate closes are to questions asked or answered by the first closer. We have a good memory for that sort of thing, and they're really fast to search for. So yes. :)
@yo' Also, that was one of my 'for the good of the site' questions.
@AlanMunn I know :)
@yo' So how did your tart turn out?
@AlanMunn gorgeous! It was almost exactly as it should be
@yo' So the recipe is a good one then. (And the baker, of course.)
5:36 PM
@AlanMunn yes, it's a good recipe. What I like about it is that it contains only natural ingredients: no starch, pure butter and cream for fat etc.
@yo' And what did you use in the end for the pie weights?
@AlanMunn rice + something like beans that was in the kitchen from who-knows-when
@SeanAllred Hope my reply to you is not too negative
@JosephWright I'm sure it's fine :)
6:02 PM
@SeanAllred Regex never do the right thing. :)
@PauloCereda They can be a pain in the *** sometimes.
@SeanAllred They are indeed.
6:30 PM
@PauloCereda thank you!
@JosephWright Still writing my response – sorry for the delay :)
It's been a distracting day
@SeanAllred No problem: took me ages to write mine
@JosephWright <cue strongbad email intro> :)
@SeanAllred BTW, I've dropped a mail to Will Robertson on this area
@JosephWright Plotting a github takeover?
6:38 PM
@DavidCarlisle muahahahhahaha
Really just discussing a lot of the concerns
@DavidCarlisle You just never know, do you ;-)
@AndrewCashner Do you plan to post an answer in meta.tex.stackexchange.com/questions/6043/… ?
7:11 PM
@PauloCereda @PauloCereda, we must be the only LaTeX users in Brazil (or perhaps the world) who watch Maronite masses -- but the last one I was really there. The only other crazy guy I know about who uses LaTeX is Gareth Hughes, check out his XeSyriac package: users.ox.ac.uk/~wolf2305/xesyriac.html and a monk (yes, a monk) who uses LaTeX to write Syriac.
@Joseph Oh I watched today, I was so mesmerized! It was lovely!
@Joseph: I thought I'd spot you in there. :)
@PauloCereda Which Joseph are you after?
@PauloCereda Nope, it's more than 100 km away from home. Anyway, I'd always thought they could do better than their transliteration of Syriac, which no one knows here by the way, but I haven't offered my services yet.
@JosephWright Oh my, we have two Josephs in here. :) I was talking to Joseph (does that help?). :)
@PauloCereda Indeed ;-)
@egreg, @DavidCarlisle You'd like the latest one on c.t.t.: \if A\scantokens {A} Yes \else No \fi works but \if A\scantokens {Z} Yes \else No \fi fails [reason is obvious if you ask me :-)]
7:24 PM
@JosephWright Well Joseph, I guess I should spell my name in Arabic, I don't know if that sounds more charming? يوسف
@Joseph :) There was a bishop celebrating the mass, I think his name was D. Edgard ( I didn't get the surname).
@JosephWright The behemoth is sent :)
@PauloCereda Yes, that's him... Kinda weird, though, chatting 'bout this on tex.sx. Maybe that's because I followed your last serious interview here and couldn't find a brilliant question to ask you, besides raising the flag of TeX typography against ABNT. Perhaps one day we'll turn the tide and we'll be like in some country (Germany?) where you can style your theses and academic works however you feel like.
@Joseph :) I was about to send you an email later on today, but you were faster here in the chatroom! :) I'm recovering from dengue, it was a very complicated holy week for me. :) But I believe it's less painful than ABNT itself. :)
7:40 PM
@PauloCereda Wow, go write your e-mail, I'll feel flattered. Yes, I was told that you can recover from dengue in a day or so; but ABNT is like malaria, once academically infected it will last till the end of your (academic) life -- unless you care, of course: then, there are some cures, TeX among them.
@SeanAllred I like behemoths.
@Joseph I'm so confused
Imposter! (I've never seen you on here before – hallo!)
@JosephWright The skipped text contains the implied outer end-of-file.
@egreg Indeed: I said it was easy ;-)
Here is how much of TeX's memory you used:
2560 strings out of 493109
33642 string characters out of 6135010
89466 words of memory out of 5000000
6046 multiletter control sequences out of 15000+600000
6178 words of font info for 19 fonts, out of 8000000 for 9000
1141 hyphenation exceptions out of 8191
27i,8n,23p,483b,175s stack positions out of 5000i,500n,10000p,200000b,80000s
! ==> Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!
I get the above warning error
What is it related to?
@evinda That isn't the actual error
Can you provide a MWE?
7:56 PM
Emergency stop.
<*> main.tex

*** (job aborted, no legal \end found)
@SeanAllred This should be the actual error
@evinda Nope, guess again.
\Theta''(\theta)+ \lambda \Theta(\theta)=0, & 0 \leq \theta< 2 \pi \\
\Theta(0)=\Theta(2 \pi) & \\
\Theta'(0)=\Theta'(2 \pi) &

\rho^2 R''(\rho)+\rho R'(\rho)- \lambda R(\rho)=0
\end{matrix}\right\} (2)$
@SeanAllred I have written the above
@evinda Looks okay to me.
An MWE would be absolutely invaluable :)
@egreg -- okay, i guess i have to recant. some web digging over dinner uncovered the fact that, in 1943, easter was indeed on april 25, and the weather for the previous weekend included 1.67in (about 4.25cm) of precipitation. so it probably started snowing on april 18 and continued into april 19. in any event, it seems there were more umbrellas than palms raised.
> in any event, it seems there were more umbrellas than palms raised.
heehee :)
7:59 PM
@SeanAllred $\\ u(x,y)=V(\rho, \theta)\\$
$x=\rho \cos{\theta}\\$
$y=\rho \sin{\theta}\\$

I get the warning message Underfull \hbox (badness 10000) in paragraph at lines 34--37...
Is it related to the fact that I shouldn't use // ?
@evinda Yeah, don't use ` \\ ` here.
@SeanAllred What could I use instead of it?
@evinda Don't use anything at all
@SeanAllred How could I change the line elsewhise?
@evinda Contrary to popular belief, a TeX source file doesn't have to be a mess. It's usually indicative of something wrong :)
8:02 PM
@evinda If you want to display equations, use the proper environments, in this case gather*
@egreg Good observation – didn't catch that
@egreg You mean for example like that?
&u(x,y)=V(\rho, \theta)\\
&x=\rho \cos{\theta}\\
&y=\rho \sin{\theta}
@evinda No &; if you want to align the equals signs, use align:
u(x,y)&=V(\rho, \theta)\\
x&=\rho \cos{\theta}\\
y&=\rho \sin{\theta}
Or with align* if you don't want numbers.
@egreg What else did you mean with gather*?
@evinda What you have written, but without &
8:14 PM
@egreg I deleted each // and wrote the equations in \begin{gather*} .... \end{gather*} but I get the following:

Compile Error. Sorry, your LaTeX code couldn't compile for some reason. Please check the errors below for details, or view the raw log.
@evinda Do you have \usepackage{amsmath}?
Yes, I do @egreg
@evinda Minimal example, please. :)
@egreg \begin{gather*}
V(1,\theta)=1+ 3 \sin^3{\theta},\ 0 \leq \theta< 2 \pi

Βρίσκουμε λύσεις της

V_{\rho \rho}(\rho, \theta)+ \frac{1}{\rho} V_{\rho}+ \frac{1}{\rho^2} V_{\theta \theta}=0


\Theta''(\theta)+ \lambda \Theta(\theta)=0, & 0 \leq \theta< 2 \pi \\
\Theta(0)=\Theta(2 \pi) & \\
\Theta'(0)=\Theta'(2 \pi) &
@evinda Ask yourself – is that last really a matrix? or is just laid out like a grid?
LaTeX works (and looks) best when you write what you mean.
By the way, minimal examples are complete documents – from \documentclass to \end{document} – that contain the minimum amount of content to reproduce the issue.
8:23 PM
@evinda don't use multiline environments like gather for single line displays, and never leave a blank line before a math display
@evinda that isn't a tex error message, it is your editor hiding the error message. What is the error in the log?
@DavidCarlisle There is this message:
Compile Error. Sorry, your LaTeX code couldn't compile for some reason. Please check the errors below for details, or view the raw log.
Emergency stop.
<*> main.tex

*** (job aborted, no legal \end found)

Here is how much of TeX's memory you used:
2560 strings out of 493109
33642 string characters out of 6135010
90466 words of memory out of 5000000
6046 multiletter control sequences out of 15000+600000
6178 words of font info for 19 fonts, out of 8000000 for 9000
1141 hyphenation exceptions out of 8191
@evinda You have no \end{document}
@evinda no that message is from your editor, it is telling you to look at the raw log, but as egreg says the document was not ended correctly
Tomorrows destination:
@egreg @DavidCarlisle Oh yes, right.... Thank you :)
@DavidCarlisle Will you also pay a visit to old Bill's house?
8:33 PM
@egreg possibly, but the museum looks more fun:-)
@DavidCarlisle Sure!
@egreg not been before but it's only 45 minutes or so up the road, so we thought we'd have a look...
@DavidCarlisle Have a lot of fun!
@DavidCarlisle I will be spending the day in another mechanical centre: the particle accelerator near Didcot
@JosephWright probably best not to stick your hands in there
8:40 PM
@DavidCarlisle Indeed
@DavidCarlisle I will hopefully avoid being irradiated (by dose badge will confirm)
@JosephWright That sounds like a good plan.
Hmm isn't that stuff physics not chemistry (probably showing my ignorance:-)
@DavidCarlisle Yes, but I'm using it as a tool so that is OK
@JosephWright If you see a big red button, press it.
@JosephWright :-)
@JosephWright They'll probably all be moping that CERN has a bigger accelerator that's in the news.
@DavidCarlisle Indeed: we've been speculating on how CERN manage the 'impact' stuff for funding (how your research applies to the world outside of academia)
@DavidCarlisle Some of the kit on our beam line is from CERN from many years ago (or at least it was: there was an upgrade last year here)
8:46 PM
@JosephWright Will you explode things?
@JosephWright probably their grant applications go "Keep paying us or we'll blow up the Alps"
@PauloCereda Hopefully not, though I am currently worried about the sample we have mounted
@DavidCarlisle Could be
@DavidCarlisle Getting on the TV probably counts anyway
@JosephWright Didcot can't claim to have invented the web.
@DavidCarlisle No
@DavidCarlisle The spiders did. :)
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