@egreg I did never use Xe(La)TeX, but Herbert telles again and again, that it can be used with fontenc, as well. Do you know this. Then you could write an answer to the kerkis question.

@Speravir Kerkis can surely be used with XeLaTeX, but not with fontspec

@egreg The question for me is, why I should use XeLaTeX then …

@Speravir There actually is an OpenType version, but apparently not in TeX Live

@egreg Aah, I noticed after your posting here.

@egreg I did not search for, but is the Opentype version on CTAN? If not, this could be the reason, why Kerkis is not in TL. It is also not included in MiKTeX, what is more liberal with the licences.

@Speravir As Gonzalo suspected, it's a licensing problem: the OpenType version doesn't qualify as free software.

@egreg Yes, I noticed, too, in between. But it could be offered with getnonfreefonts.

@Speravir That's for "oldstyle fonts"

@egreg Aah.

@egreg BTW As I read the licence, it is valid for Type1 version, too.This is included in TL.

@Speravir Don't tell Karl, then. ;-)

@egreg ;-) @KarlBerry could you take a look?

I'm writing some lecture notes on representation of posets (lots of maths and diagrams), and I don't want to use CM or Latin Modern. I was wondering what fonts would you (anyone who reads this question) suggest? Basically I'm looking for a sober nice font (it could even be commercial).

@GonzaloMedina I do not need maths, but can point you to The LaTeX Font Catalogue – Fonts with math support.

@GonzaloMedina tug.org/pracjourn/2006-1/hartke/hartke.pdf

emphasis on 2006

@egreg, @tohecz: hey guys! Very busy day, and I had a keynote. :)

@PauloCereda Hey, Paulo! Even though you didn't ping me :)

@Speravir @percusse Thanks; any personal favorite(s) among those fonts?

@GonzaloMedina No,as I’m have no experience at all. Generally I love the Garamond versions, but maybe they are too small for your needs. Perhaps @tohecz could say something.

@GonzaloMedina what about kpfonts? Not everyone is a fan but I use it with the 'light' option and have come to like it quite a bit.

@PaulGessler @GonzaloMedina Ah, yes!

unicode.org/faq/casemap_charprop.html#21

An official FAQ with a sense of humour :-)

@Gonzalo hi Gonzalo! I'm so sorry, I didn't see your ping. :-(

Guys, something fishy is going on right now: I'm in the bus and this cute girl in the seat on my left just opened her notebook and started playing WoW.

I'm via mobile. :)

@PauloCereda WoW -- Women of Wrestling

Should I wait the bus to stop to ask her to marry me? Damn, she uses Windows 8, that will definitely be a problem... but WoW.

@Marco LOL olympic event: bikini women wrestling. :)

I will be right back. :) Power off.

Up to now I still don't understand why we cannot vote our own answers or questions up while in facebook we can do it for our own comments. :-)

@CodeMocker This isn't facebook ;-)

@MarcoDaniel It is a bug in facebook. :-)

@CodeMocker You know, there's a captioned picture that compare people liking your own FCB posts with a kangaroo doing auto-fellatio

@GonzaloMedina Hi! Well, given the quite limited choice of well-made math fonts, you can always choose a math font, and then try to match it with text fonts. And if the one math font doesn't work for you, you can try another one

@tohecz Where is the link?

@CodeMocker I seem not to be able to find it now

@CodeMocker sorry, it was a lion, not a kangaroo. It's meme/3r6cnu at quickmeme.com

@tohecz Are you a sexologist or a mathematician?

@CodeMocker uh? That one is just a stupid joke that people often post to someone who likes their own post on facebook, no science here

@tohecz :-)

@egreg: Are there built-in macros for \{ and \} in any package you knew?

@CodeMocker They are standard LaTeX commands

@egreg I meant something like \lvert for |?

@CodeMocker I can't understand. They are defined in the LaTeX kernel.

If there is no such macros, I have to define my own.

I need to define \def\leftc{\{} and \def\rightc{\}}.

@CodeMocker \lbrack or \lbrace ?

@tohecz OK. I will try it.

@tohecz \lbrace is enough. thanks.

@CodeMocker As @tohecz says, there are \lbrace and \rbrace (math mode only). They are in the kernel, too.

@egreg OK. thanks.

I never remember which is a brace and which is a brack(et)

@tohecz \lbrace=\{, \lbrack=[

How to lower the subscript in \lbrace(3,x),(2,y)\rbrace_2 ?

@egreg well, I won't remember now, no way :)

@CodeMocker in one case ore in general? In this one case, you can try \rbrace_2^{}, it should help. If not, then \rbrace_2^{\vphantom{X}}

subscript 2 seems too high, I want to make it lower

@CodeMocker {\{(3,2),(2,y)\}}_{2}. But, why?

@egreg I will make a try.

@egreg I stick to \lbrace(3,x),(2,y)\rbrace_2 because there is no difference.

Save more keystrokes as usual.

I'm back home, yay!

@PauloCereda where were you?

conference?

@FaheemMitha Yes, in a conference. :)

@PauloCereda Ok.

@egreg: did David behave while I was gone? :)

@PauloCereda no

@DavidCarlisle <3

@DavidCarlisle As usual.

What do you think about tex.stackexchange.com/a/159305/15616

I don't really feel like arguing with the guy right now...

@canaaerus well, somehow, I'm fine with it being there at -1. I mean, I understand the downvote, I won't download further. That's it :)

@PaulGessler Could be an option. Thanks.

@tohecz Well, yes, of course. I was asking for a suggestion of an already known good combination.

@GonzaloMedina Well, I have some good experience with eulervm and tgheros, but that's sans-serif

@Gonzalo Another thing that works out of the box is fourier, which is both text and math font in one package

@GonzaloMedina This is an example with KPfonts

@tohecz Yes, I like fourier; it's the one I'm currently using.

@GonzaloMedina I think the better the font becomes the terrible it's math part is. It's not that the font designer is bad or they don't know math. It's just suddenly the math becomes too pronounced. As if we are rewriting Principia or something. I think a tone down math font is much more effective than the fancy curvy gammas or f's. But that's a matter of taste of course.

@GonzaloMedina My Linear Algebra book is in Utopia/Fourier

@GonzaloMedina Like you I'm also still searching for a lucid math font that goes well enough with well-known superb fonts without stealing the thunder of the text

No Lucida jokes please :P

@egreg mathdesgin with utopia option?

@GonzaloMedina No, \usepackage{fourier}

@egreg I see. After trying several alternatives, fourier seems to me like the best choice. Do you know if there's a nice math font matching Baskerville for text?

Well, I still prefer CM/LM.

@GonzaloMedina Euler?

\usepackage[euler-digits]{eulervm}

@GonzaloMedina Not that I know.

@egreg: I don't want to try to reinvent the wheel. Are there any built-in macros for second and first derivative for my scenario below?

\documentclass[preview,border=12pt,12pt]{standalone}
\usepackage{palatino}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\newcommand\drvst[2][x]{\frac{\textrm{d}#2}{\textrm{d}#1}}
\newcommand\drvnd[2][x]{\frac{\textrm{d}^2#2}{\textrm{d}#1^2}}
\begin{document}
\[
\drvnd{\phi}=-k
\]
\end{document}

@CodeMocker you could take a look at the commath package

Your example would be \od[2]{\phi}{x} = -k

@PaulGessler Nice to know this package, Thanks.

@PaulGessler One of the worst packages ever written.

@egreg So what do you recommend?

@CodeMocker Define your macros. Or look at

@egreg oops, why is that?

@PaulGessler See also

ouch. never knew these things!

@JosephWright Luis Rivera, on comp.text.tex, says he's still using emTeX for some of his jobs. ;-)

@egreg Is it ok?

\documentclass[preview,border=12pt,12pt]{standalone}
\usepackage{palatino}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\newcommand\der[2][x]{\frac{\textrm{d}#2}{\textrm{d}#1}}
\newcommand\derr[2][x]{\frac{\textrm{d}^2#2}{\textrm{d}#1^2}}
\newcommand\Der[2][x]{\frac{\textrm{d}}{\textrm{d}#1}\left(#2\right)}
\newcommand\dif[1]{\textrm{d}\left(\right)}
\begin{document}
Let
\[
k=\frac{qN_D}{\epsilon \epsilon_0}
\]
so we have
\begin{gather*}
\derr{\phi}=-k\\
\Der{\der{\phi}}=-k
\end{gather*}
\end{document}

@CodeMocker \mathrm in all cases. I'd prefer italic, but it's an old story. With \textrm you'd get italic in a theorem.

@egreg I will test it first.

@CodeMocker Anyway, you should define the differential with a macro: \newcommand\diff{\mathop{}\!\mathrm{d}}

@egreg OK.

@egreg: The following is what I did so far. Any comment is welcome.

\documentclass[preview,border=12pt,12pt]{standalone}
\usepackage{palatino}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\newcommand\der[2][x]{\frac{\mathrm{d}#2}{\mathrm{d}#1}}
\newcommand\derr[2][x]{\frac{\mathrm{d}^2#2}{\mathrm{d}#1^2}}
\newcommand\Der[2][x]{\frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}#1}\left(#2\right)}
\newcommand\Dif[1]{\mathop{}\!\mathrm{d}\left(#1\right)}
\newcommand\dif[1]{\mathop{}\!\mathrm{d}#1}
\begin{document}
Let
\[
k=\frac{qN_D}{\epsilon \epsilon_0}
\]
so we have
\begin{gather*}
\derr{\phi}=-k\\
\Der{\der\phi}=-k\\

@CodeMocker I can't understand what's \Dif for. Don't define \dif with an argument. Why should you?

@egreg \Dif is defined to enclose the arg with adjustable braces.

@CodeMocker If you want to complicate your input…

@egreg: OK I will redefine \diff without args.

@CodeMocker The advantage is that you write \int f(x)\diff x and you don't need to worry about the spacing. Making x into an argument is useless.

@egreg OK.

@egreg: Is \mathop{}\! identical to \, ?

@CodeMocker No.

@egreg So when I write \int f(x)\, \mathrm{d}x, is it wrong?

@CodeMocker Of course not. But the definition above is much more clever.

Or do I always have to write \int f(x)\mathop{}\!\mathrm{d}x ?

@CodeMocker That's what macros are for!

@egreg Then why didn't you define the macro as follows

\newcommand\dif{\,\mathrm{d}}

?

Am I doing the right thing?

\documentclass[preview,border=12pt,12pt,varwidth]{standalone}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\begin{document}
\abovedisplayskip=0pt\relax
\[
\left.\frac{\mathrm{d}y}{\mathrm{d}x}\right|_{x=a}=b
\]
\end{document}

@CodeMocker Because this would always add \,, also in cases where it shouldn't.

@egreg OK. Thanks.

I've found something a bit odd about koma. I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but I suspect the output routine is playing havoc with something.

\documentclass{scrartcl}

\usepackage{blindtext}

\begin{document}
\Blindtext

\Blindlist{itemize}

\blindtext

\end{document}

The lines in the list poke out into the margin when the list starts immediately after a page-breaking paragraph.

This doesn't happen if I replace \Blindtext with \blindtext in the above.

No, I'm being stupid! They're not poking out! Disregard that. I think I'm having a senior moment.

I think flowfram may be the culprit in my actual document.

Evening all

@JosephWright Hello! :-)

Drat. It is flowfram that's throwing things out of whack. I'll have to file a bug report to myself.

@NicolaTalbot :-)

@JosephWright Oh, I meant to tell you, I got my car back yesterday! :-)

@NicolaTalbot Cool

@NicolaTalbot Oh no!

And hi! :)

@PauloCereda Hi! :-)

@JosephWright 'ello! :)

@NicolaTalbot Hi! :)

@NicolaTalbot Will you be popping in this week?

@JosephWright Yes, what day's best?

Oh, that's interesting, I think I've introduced a new bug since the last flowfram upload.

@NicolaTalbot Wed busy all day and Fri pm but otherwise nothing booked at the mo

@JosephWright How about Thurs?

@NicolaTalbot OK

@JosephWright will there be tea? :)

@JosephWright What sort of time? 10.30am ish?

@NicolaTalbot Sounds good

@PauloCereda Yes

@PauloCereda You'll have to send a high-speed arara to fetch it :-)

@JosephWright wooooo

@JosephWright Okay.

@NicolaTalbot ooh I need to find one! But how am I supposed to catch one? :P

@PauloCereda By offering it some cake ;-)

@NicolaTalbot ooh! :)

@NicolaTalbot OK, find me in CAP (floor 2, my office is room 2.50 or our office is 2.03)

@JosephWright Okay, thanks.

Yay, I've fixed my bug!

I can now sleep soundly at night.

Hello @DavidCarlisle

@JosephWright hi still lowercasing?

@DavidCarlisle Yes

@DavidCarlisle Did you see e-mails?

@JosephWright yes, not followed all the details but it seems about right, agree you should stick to the simple 1-1 character map version (and the list could be shorter for pdftex) I'd not noticed Uchar before, being expandable sounds useful, I suppose a few thousand long \ifcase test for xetex wouldn't count as an expandable version there?

@DavidCarlisle The XeTeX version uses \str_case:nn, which is why it's too slow with LuaTeX

@DavidCarlisle It's a shame there is no \Uchar in XeTeX as you could then use ranges and basic maths

@DavidCarlisle Bruno will likely write a 'proper' higher level mapping for the title casing later, I guess: at present I want the case-folding and really 1-1. (I note the Unicode doc itself is upper case, so I'd naturally upper case to compare to it, not lower case!)

@DavidCarlisle BTW, \str_case:nn comes down to \ifnum\pdfstrcmp{\unexpanded{#1}}{\unexpanded{#2}}=\z@

@JosephWright I'm just experimenting with scantokens....

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@JosephWright is there an easy expandable way to write a number in hex, or do I have to code it up by hand with \numexpr and an ifcase for the hex digits?

@DavidCarlisle \int_to_hexadecimal:n?

@JosephWright I suppose I could load the L3 code:-)

@DavidCarlisle Or at least read it

@JosephWright well in the current context, loading it is probably better

@DavidCarlisle Fine :-)

@DavidCarlisle You have a plan?

@JosephWright argggggg \int_to_hexadecimal:n makes uppercase digits :(

@DavidCarlisle Yes

@JosephWright I need an expandable way to lowercase that:-)

@DavidCarlisle For testing, just redefine \__int_to_letter:n

@JosephWright yes I could do that, just thought it was funny

@DavidCarlisle Just for the range needed you could just use an \ifcase :-)

@JosephWright plan is to define Uchar as more or less

@JosephWright No I need the hex number of a character in the full Unicode range

@DavidCarlisle I meant to turn the upper case hex into lower case: there are only a few letters :-)

then plan is more or less

\def\myUchar#1{%
\expandafter\scantokens\expandafter{%
\expandafter^\expandafter^\romannumeral-`x\int_to_hexadecimal:n{#1}}}

\everyeof{\noexpand}

but using ^^^^ form if needed

@DavidCarlisle Ah

@DavidCarlisle Why the lowercase requirement?

@JosephWright Because TeX is stupid

@DavidCarlisle Oh

@DavidCarlisle \Uchar needs upper case :-)

@JosephWright I thought Uchar took a <number> ? (must admit I didn't test)

@DavidCarlisle Yes, but try e.g. \showtokens\expandafter{\Uchar"01D9 } and lower case version

Not mentioned in docs: based on what I've found

Hello, stumbling in: What do you think about parcolsx broken after update to paracolumns?? I fear this is off-topic. See especially my latest comment.

@JosephWright same as classic TeX "A0 requires uppercase and ^^a0 requires lowercase which is annoying if you want to generate the former to pass to the latter in \scantokens

\count0="A0
\showthe\count0

\count0="a1
\showthe\count0

@DavidCarlisle Ah yes

OK. @JosephWright How to deal with this? See my posting above. Start reading with my latest comment.

@Speravir Reading now

@Speravir Not really clear what is going on!

\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{expl3}
\makeatletter
\ExplSyntaxOn

\def\__int_to_letter:n #1
  {
    \exp_after:wN \exp_after:wN
    \if_case:w \__int_eval:w #1 - \c_ten \__int_eval_end:
         a
    \or: b
    \or: c
    \or: d
    \or: e
    \or: f
    \else: \__int_value:w \__int_eval:w #1 \exp_after:wN \__int_eval_end:
    \fi:
    }

\begin{document}

\def\myUchar#1{%
\expandafter\scantokens\expandafter{%
\expandafter^\expandafter^\romannumeral-`x\int_to_hexadecimal:n{#1}}}

\everyeof{\noexpand}

@JosephWright Oh, I should read more carefully. The OP noticed the same already. But so the question cannot be answered, or am I wrong here? Note, that a bounty is set, too.

@Speravir I'll reverse the bounty

@JosephWright Oh … and then? What a reasoning in off-topic?

@Speravir I've left a comment: I'll wait to hear what is said, but sounds 'unclear'

@JosephWright Yes, saw the comment ans was about editing the posting above. :-)

@JosephWright I don’t get it, when something should be unclear and when off-topic … And more important here: Wait for a reaction, I guess.

@Speravir Yes

@JosephWright Another one: MikTex Download Failure - toptesi.tar.lzma See my CW answer. I would initiate closing as off-topic. but what happens then (because it was migrated)?

@Speravir The lack of TL is a real pain with these

@JosephWright Yes. So what happens, when a migrated question gets closed? This one counts a answered, but no one can give auseful answer anymore. In general I think, such question should be closed, when the bug was fixed.

Every time I don't move a web between servers, I forget how annoying it knows to be

Does anyone here know if it is even possible to apply a label to a TikZ edge via style? It doesn't really make sense from a language-study perspective, but if anyone knows an analog I'd be grateful to open a Q and get an answer :-)

@SeanAllred I'm quite sure that you can add notes through styles. But I'm far from being TikZpert to tell you how :)

s/notes/nodes/