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7:01 PM
@FaheemMitha It's used for being outside an alignment. You can use \zz only after \\
 
@egreg Yes, that's what I thought. You mean, immediately after, right?
How could I modify it to use it after a &?
 
@FaheemMitha Yes; blank spaces are ignored.
@FaheemMitha You can't.
 
@egreg Oh. Why not? Because the line has already started being printed?
 
@FaheemMitha Basically.
 
@egreg Ok, so it has to be used at the beginning or not at all?
 
7:04 PM
@FaheemMitha Exactly.
 
@egreg "It's used for being outside an alignment." Can you elaborate on that? What does it mean to be in an alignment?
 
@FaheemMitha In a tabular you are in an alignment. However, after \\ you are allowed to add material that goes between rows (so not subject to alignment), provided it's in \noalign; macros such as \hline use this feature.
 
@egreg I see. Thanks, that's a very helpful clarification.
@egreg looks like i'll have to modify what I'm doing to try to call \zz at the beginning of the line then.
So, the error message "Misplaced \noalign." means, you can't do a noalign, you are already aligned. Or something like that.
I should have looked at this first:
11
Q: What is the function of \noalign?

np8The use of \noalign is quite common. For example here \noalign is used with \vskip{}to control the height of a table cell. How does \noalign work in general, and how does it work with \vskip? What is the logic behind the use of \noalign{\vskip}?

 
@FaheemMitha When TeX has already started a cell, \noalign cannot be used any more. You have to place it after \cr (in LaTeX it's \\)
 
So, the position of \noalign is important, and its argument will be stuck between the rows.
@egreg Right, I see.
What is \zz placing in no-align mode, exactly?
 
7:12 PM
@FaheemMitha Nothing. ;-)
 
That's the case when it is not writing a line? Or in either case? In one case it is setting the \label it looks like, which I suppose amounts to writing to .aux.
 
Guys, moral question: I have a printed copy of the TeXbook. Would it be wrong to generate the PDF from the source (of course, with some trickery), so I could have a "pocket" version for me to take in my trips, while the original remains pristine in the bookshelf? :)
 
@PauloCereda there's a source?
 
@FaheemMitha Well, it puts a whatsit between rows, which contains the instruction for writing the label in the .aux file. Other than that nothing affecting the table is inserted. But if the control sequence used for the test is not defined, then \zzapline comes into action.
 
7:18 PM
@PauloCereda Legally not.
 
@egreg Thought so. :(
 
@egreg I see. Is whatsit a technical term? I'm not familar with it.
@PauloCereda I See. Thanks.
Found
20
Q: Whatsits: when are they used in practice?

Bruno Le FlochThis question came up in discussions surrounding the question How to replace a large block of text by an empty block of the same size?, which basically asks for a vmode analog of \phantom. My question thus focuses on vertical mode only. One approach is to collect the material to be hidden in a v...

So, apparently yes.
@egreg the answer to this question is rather trickier than I expected.
@PauloCereda Is it possible to purchase an ebook of the texbook. Or similar?
 
@FaheemMitha I don't think so. TAOCP was recently published as ePub, though.
 
@PauloCereda Oh
 
@egreg: I could try to find the spiral version. :)
 
7:24 PM
This gowers blog is quite interesting - gowers.wordpress.com/2014/04/24/elsevier-journals-some-facts
He seems to have put a fair amount of work into this.
Courtesy @percusse. Who may have gone home.
 
ooh a @dragon! :) Hello!
@FaheemMitha Nah, @percusse (aka sir) doesn't go home. Never. :) He's a post-modern TikZ messiah. :)
 
@PauloCereda I'm not sure what that last sentence means. He's got to sleep sometime.
 
@FaheemMitha Don't worry. :) He never sleeps. :)
 
@PauloCereda I hope that's not true.
 
Who is preventing me to go to my hibernation in my cave?
Did I eat all those sheeps and honey for this?
 
8:03 PM
@percusse You eat sheeps?
I haven't eaten honey in ages.
What I wouldn't give for some good veal...
Wow, those are some scary Elsevier numbers.
 
@FaheemMitha No bees around?
@FaheemMitha They are
 
@percusse There probably are, but I guess I've just not felt that honey urge.
@percusse Oh, yes, you were the one who posted that stuff, right?
I'm looking particularly at the UK ones.
Looks like Gowers put in quite a lot of work here.
 
@FaheemMitha He is indeed, in a very admirable way.
 
@percusse Agreed. So, it is true that you never sleep? Or is it an urban legend spread by @PauloCereda?
 
8
Q: Does LaTeX really perform worse than Word?

KennyPeanutsA new study in PLOS ONE1 concludes that even novice MS Word users perform better than expert LaTeX users in document creation. I have read the article and I feel like I have identified some flaws in their approach and design but I figured this community would be the best positioned to rigorousl...

This is opinion-based, yes?
 
8:12 PM
@percusse are you following the whol OA/journal debate?
Hi @JosephWright. Merry Christmas and New Year.
 
@FaheemMitha Yes as much as I can
 
Oh, you too, @percusse.
Going home for the vacation?
 
@JosephWright I think so too
 
@FaheemMitha Thanks
 
@JosephWright We started discussing it here earlier. But as a question, it's mainly discussion at the moment until someone does some follow-up studies.
 
8:14 PM
@JosephWright Curious subject for a research article.
It's true - one can spend a lot of time fine-tuning LaTeX, but it is still hard to believe expert LaTeX users would be so slow.
 
@FaheemMitha It is a bit. And the rhetoric in the article seems to come down very hard against LaTeX as if they has a bad childhood experience with it. :)
 
@AlanMunn I see no comments on the question itself ;-)
 
"A striking result of our study is that LaTeX users are highly satisfied with their system despite reduced usability and productivity." And so on, and so forth. So, apparently we're all brainwashed by the wicked LaTeX cabal.
Or something.
 
@FaheemMitha You see much odder things. The line is not new: there was a guy on c.t.t. years ago who was very opposed to TeX
 
@AlanMunn Or was paid by MS.
 
8:21 PM
@JosephWright I think you should mod-hammer it closed. Keks has already posted what I think isn't really an answer, but just comments.
 
@JosephWright Huh.
 
@FaheemMitha They state not in the paper.
 
@AlanMunn Yes, I saw that.
 
@FaheemMitha Part of the issue is the whole business that TeX is a typesetting system and Word just isn't: it's not a like-for-like comparison
 
@JosephWright True. But I think the article is just trying to estimate overall productivity. Which is reasonable, I suppose. I just find the results hard to believe.
Hmm, let me check to see how they are measuring expert.
 
8:23 PM
@FaheemMitha There are supplementary files.
 
"Given these numbers it remains an open question to determine the amount of taxpayer money that is spent worldwide for researchers to use LaTeX over a more efficient document preparation system, which would free up their time to advance their respective field."
 
@FaheemMitha 'Productivity' very much depends on the outcomes you measure by
 
Forgot to include costs to MS there.
 
@JosephWright I think it is opinion based rather than off-topic
 
Remember I use Word for most of my work articles, and I do see where the issues come as a result
 
8:24 PM
@JosephWright I think just text typed, here.
"And, second, preventing researchers from producing documents in LaTeX would save time and money to maximize the benefit of research and development for both the research team and the public."
Ok, that's really weird. preventing?
 
@FaheemMitha That's just silly: anyone writing using any set up can find ways to avoid doing the work
 
What are they trying to say here?
 
@FaheemMitha We are two grumpy Word users and frustrated that we can't use that stuff.
 
@JosephWright True, but they had cash prizes as motivation.
 
That's the gist.
 
8:26 PM
@FaheemMitha I suggest they fiddle with a two-column document template with inserted graphics when one of the authors wants to rework the text just before submission
 
@JosephWright Yes.
 
@FaheemMitha On that basis classical typewriter manuscripts are the right way to go (which is more-or-less what I do whatever tool I'm using, if given the option)
 
@JosephWright Um, don't follow. You like using a typewriter?
 
@FaheemMitha I meant the style: Word or LaTeX, I'd naturally go with 'manuscript-like' if I'm allowed to
 
@JosephWright Oh
 
8:28 PM
@FaheemMitha In chemistry, most communications nowadays have to be done in the (Word) templates which match the published style
 
@JosephWright Is that bad? Why don't they use LaTeX?
 
@JosephWright which is for me still amazing.
 
I see Paul couldn't resist.
Any reasonable "professional LaTeX user" would surely be using Vim, not Emacs. ;-)Paul Gessler 4 mins ago
 
Winner for 'Pain in the neck' style is Chemistry - A European Journal: initial submission in a template, strip out to a manuscript once accepted (including removing all graphics, etc.). I really 'love' that!
 
@JosephWright :)
 
8:30 PM
@JosephWright This has to be done manually?
 
@FaheemMitha LaTeX is very rare in chemistry, and floats are more tricky for us than for example for maths.
 
@JosephWright I see. But you still use it?
 
@FaheemMitha I write some templates for some publishers, but as they are all moving to commercial fonts it's now more-or-less impossible to match the style in LaTeX
@FaheemMitha Yes, for my own documents
@FaheemMitha Work-wise, the biggest single use is plots
 
@JosephWright Which aren't published in chem journals.
 
@FaheemMitha Of course
@FaheemMitha Quite
 
8:31 PM
@JosephWright Oh, Ok. Like TikZ?
 
@FaheemMitha Wrote a book chapter recently (with a more senior colleague). Submission to the editors had to be in Word, some 'fun' with references as a result. PDF proof I have is made using dvips ;-)
 
@JosephWright Off-topic, I voted
 
@FaheemMitha pgfplots, but yes (this is much more efficient long-term than using e.g. SigmaPlot)
@egreg Cool
 
@JosephWright I had to do a work submission for a book chapter too, once. It was unpleasant.
 
@egreg I think opinion-based would be more appropriate because I think it is kinda on-topic though with unfounded claims and hilarious conclusions
 
8:34 PM
LaTeX is certainly very good for fine-tuning. I'd hate to do that with a word processor.
 
@percusse Yes, I agree. I voted for opinion based.
 
@FaheemMitha I do my lecture notes in beamer: again, there is a clear gain as I can do conditional text inclusion, which is in the handouts but not on screen. (Again, I have colleagues who do the same in Word/PowerPoint but thus need two parallel docs)
 
@percusse As you see, Yoda mode in I was. And the Force was with me.
 
E.g. adjusting margins, changing font sizes, spaces between paras, swapping defns of macros. though maybe word has macros, i dunno.
@JosephWright right
 
@egreg which episode did Lucas consider you as a CGI addition ? :P
 
8:37 PM
@percusse Episode -1 (it will eventually be released).
 
@egreg I knew it! You typeset the script in TeX right?
and the opening credits is a special parshape.
 
In a galaxy far far away...\emph{Add more context here}
3
 
@FaheemMitha One think I do mainly not in TeX is chemical figures: graphical tools here really are best (based on nearly 20 years experience)
 
@percusse \parshape\starwars, where the definition of \starwars can be found hidden in plain.tex. I won't tell how to find it, not to spoil the fun.
 
8:43 PM
@JosephWright I see.
 
@percusse Of course, Knuth appears in Episode –2^32
 
!!/texdef \starwars
@egreg :P
 
@JosephWright I hate to override the voters, but is there a way for to make this an Opinion Based close rather Off Topic. It just seems weird to say that it's off topic.
 
I agree with @egreg. It should be closed. No point answering it.
I guess I don't have enough rep to see the close votes. presumably >= 3000 is needed.
 
@AlanMunn Both are probably true, I think, as productivity is certainly not what we can claim to know about
 
8:48 PM
@JosephWright Sure, but given that the paper is specifically about LaTeX, it's so strange for it to just be marked as off topic. For example, we might have a question about LaTeX and accessibility factors for the visually impaired, and that wouldn't be off topic, I shouldn't think.
 
@AlanMunn OK, reasonable argument
 
@AlanMunn Hahahahaha
@cfr IcertainlydothatswhyIeschewallspacesandpunctuationItsmuchmoreefficient. — Alan Munn 16 mins ago
Looks like my variable naming skillz...
 
9:06 PM
@percusse :)
 
@percusse llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
 
@egreg And your Welsh kick continues... :)
 
@AlanMunn It's my favorite variable name. After I've written it on the blackboard, the lecture ends. ;-)
 
@egreg Probably it has two syllable orally.
 
9:21 PM
@KeksDose, @KennyPeanuts Perhaps we could discuss the PLON article in chat (comments work less well for a discussion)
 
@JosephWright I suggested making a separate chat room for it. Should I do that?
 
@AlanMunn Might be a good idea
@AlanMunn Thanks for that
 
9:45 PM
@PauloCereda hi :)
 
@egreg I don't know fi you are still there, but even putting \zz first gives the same error. My guess is that I am missing something obvious. Here is a paste - paste.lisp.org/display/144913
 
@FaheemMitha What was the original answer by David?
 
@egreg One sec.
8
A: Automatically creating a table from datatool using references in the text

David Carlisle \documentclass{article} \usepackage{array} \usepackage{longtable} \makeatletter \let\oldref\ref \def\ref#1{\immediate\write\@auxout{\string\expandafter\gdef\noexpand\csname REF:#1\string\endcsname{}}% \oldref{#1}} \def\zz#1#2{\noalign{% \expandafter\ifx\csname REF:#1\endcsname\@empty \def\@cu...

That code I posted works if I remove the \zz, so it can't be too far wrong.
 
@FaheemMitha Sorry, but I don't think it will work with \DTLforeach.
 
@egreg Oh. Is the reason why something you can explain?
 
9:59 PM
@FaheemMitha I'm afraid that \DTLforeach places things in a way that can't make TeX see \zz before it has started typesetting a cell. Even a seemingly innocuous \relax would cause this.
 
@egreg Hmm, that's too bad. Are there any alternatives you can think of that would have the same result?
I mean, a different approach?
Like, if one was to decide on what rows to typeset before entering the table at all, that would probably work.
Obviously, I don't know if that is possible.
 
@FaheemMitha Honestly, I can't really understand the problem. There's no indication what the output is supposed to be. I can't read minds. ;-)
 
@egreg In my question, or in david's answer? I just want to include rows that are actually referenced in the text (by label). Seems like a natural thing to try to do.
For some value of natural.
 
@FaheemMitha In your question.
 
I can make things more explicit, certainly.
@egreg The original one?
@egreg What David is doing is what I want, except I want it to work with datatool, obviously. See the example code I just posted in:
0
Q: Automatically creating a table from datatool using references in the text (merging solution into format of question)

Faheem MithaIn Automatically creating a table from datatool using references in the text I asked a question about datatool automatically generating a table based on references to the text. David Carlisle answered it, but I've had difficulty adapting the answer to the format of the question; namely a loop ov...

Basically, I just want a loop using \DTLforeach that will include a row if the corresponding label is referenced in the text. Like David is doing.
Except, his method doesn't use datatool at all.
And you are now saying it cannot made to work with it.
 
10:10 PM
@FaheemMitha Because it can't work with it.
 
@egreg Right, but I basically want the same thing, but using \DTLforeach.
If that is really unclear, I can include hand-written example output if it would help.
 
@FaheemMitha I'm not spending time on it now, sorry.
 
@egreg Ok.
 
10:31 PM
Ahem, neeerds are you reaadyyyy ?
:)
Belgians, right?
 
@percusse With prototypical a**hole Porsche style parking...
 
@AlanMunn Cut some slack, he(definitely a he) buys a Porsche and puts a linux plate, he needs to justify his existence.
as if he is not visible enough (typical behavior giveaway for .....)
 
@percusse Here's some sample notes one could leave: buzzfeed.com/simoncrerar/angry-windshield-notes#.adG1w1X4R
 
@AlanMunn Definitely number 27!
 
@percusse I liked #3.
 
10:42 PM
@AlanMunn Adorable Patience...
 
Another reason why I should resist posting on EL&U: english.stackexchange.com/questions/216979/…
 
@AlanMunn Looks like a very good answer to me :-)
 
@FaheemMitha My idea is to change the redefinition of \ref into
\makeatletter
\let\oldref\ref
\def\ref#1{%
  \immediate\write\@auxout{%
    \string\gappto\string\ReferencedIDs{#1}%
  }%
  \oldref{#1}%
}
\def\ReferencedIDs{}
\makeatother
Then you should check whether \RefID is both a substring of #1 and of \ReferencedIDs. I don't know how to do it in the <condition> argument to \DTLforeach, though.
The documentation is pretty cryptic on the usage of \ifthenelse.
 
@egreg Ok. If you want you could add it as an answer to the question, so it doesn't get lost.
At any rate, I'll add a link right now.
Done.
Suggestion by @egreg in chat, starting chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/19261427#19261427 Putting it here so it won't get lost. — Faheem Mitha 14 secs ago
Should I merge my revised example code in my followup question into my original question? If I do, it will get messy. On the other hand, keeping them separate is artificial. They are two questions which are essentially identical.
@JosephWright how many listed members of the LaTeX 3 team are currently active, for some value of current?
@JosephWright "The project team can be reached via e-mail, but please send general questions about LaTeX, LaTeX use and where to get LaTeX to the usenet news group comp.text.tex." This doesn't (but could) mention tex.sx.
 
11:05 PM
@FaheemMitha The mailing list is probably still best as everyone sees it and it's archived
@FaheemMitha I'd say me, @DavidCarlisle, Frank, Will and Bruno, mainly
 
@JosephWright I meant about the general questions thing.
 
@FaheemMitha Will and Bruno have both been busy over the last year or so
 
So comp.text.tex + tex.sx.
 
@FaheemMitha Ah
@FaheemMitha I'll edit that, probably tomorrow
 
@JosephWright So, like 2 or 3 people.
 
11:07 PM
@FaheemMitha Chris R. contributes in discussion
@FaheemMitha Varies a bit, but for the time I've been on the team we've never had more than 4 people really 'active' at the same time
 
Since Davids approach apparently does not work (per @egreg) should I merge this code back into the main question, or just drop it? — Faheem Mitha 9 secs ago
@JosephWright I see.
How long have you been on the team?
 
@FaheemMitha Around 5 years
 
@JosephWright Ok
 
@FaheemMitha There is LaTeX2e work to do too: Frank and David handle most of that
@FaheemMitha Indeed, I've got a blog post to write (tomorrow) about some upcoming LaTeX2e stuff
 
@JosephWright Wow, you must be busy.
 
11:11 PM
@FaheemMitha Yes
@FaheemMitha A lot of the work is discussing ideas, not writing code (back with that paper and whether speed-of-typing is the key!)
 
@JosephWright Design and so forth.
 
@FaheemMitha Yes
@FaheemMitha @DavidCarlisle and I need to push some stuff that we discussed, got to some form of decision and now need to implement
 
@JosephWright Ok.
 
@cfr: on a more serious note, would you like to help us with Welsh language support for arara (only the command line application, not the manual)? I wanted to force kindly ask @Brent to write, but he said his Welsh is rusty. :)
 
@FaheemMitha Look and behold.
 
11:15 PM
@egreg Oh, you figured it out?
I just finished describing (in the question) that Davids approach didn't work.
 
@FaheemMitha I think so. But I'm not sure, as the question is far from clear.
 
Thanks very much. I'll have to look at it tomorrow. It's the middle of the night here, and my brain is shutting down.
@egreg Sorry about that. Like I said, I can elaborate if you want. What part is unclear?
Or should I just look at your answer?
 
@AlanMunn I read Mr. Munn out loud with a 007 villain accent. :) We finally met, Mr. Munn.
 
@FaheemMitha Please.
 
yo'
@Paulo! :)
 
11:17 PM
@yo' Tom! :) How was your Christmas, pal? :)
 
@PauloCereda I'm not shaken or stirred... :)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda oh so very nice :) and yours? any interesting presents? :)
 
@AlanMunn ooh you are good. :)
@yo' I got a basket full of chocolate. :)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda /me jealous :D
 
@yo' <3
 
11:20 PM
@egreg This looks in the right ballpark. I guess the magic is in
\def\ref#1{%
\immediate\write\@auxout{%
\string\gappto\string\ReferencedIDs{#1}%
}%
Which of course I don't understand. If you want to add a brief explanation of how that works, it would be helpful.
I think you mentioned something earlier.
 
@egreg: see @Alan's avatar in EL&U: Beam me up, Alan! :)
 
32 mins ago, by egreg
\makeatletter
\let\oldref\ref
\def\ref#1{%
  \immediate\write\@auxout{%
    \string\gappto\string\ReferencedIDs{#1}%
  }%
  \oldref{#1}%
}
\def\ReferencedIDs{}
\makeatother
 
@PauloCereda Yeah I got that for voting on a question in the stats site.
 
@FaheemMitha A \ref command in the text writes an annotation in the .aux file that causes, at begin document, the \ReferencedIDs macro to be populated. Then you can use it when \DTLforeach is called to see if the current ID has been referenced in the text.
 
yo'
@AlanMunn @Paulo Funny thing is: I saw it until the page said "Welcome tohecz, you have been logged in" and I clicked F5 ;)
 
11:23 PM
@yo' :)
 
@egreg ok. similar approach to David then. What is the difference?
 
@FaheemMitha That this approach works. ;-)
 
@yo' At some point I clicked on 'I hate hats' but maybe that just hides them from me.
 
"causes, at begin document, the \ReferencedIDs macro to be populated."
Ok, presumably that.
 
@AlanMunn Don't let Nicola hear you hate hats. :)
 
11:24 PM
@egreg Ok. I should warn you that I will have questions about this. Sorry about that.
 
yo'
@AlanMunn I think that you don't lose the ones that you get before behating them
 
@AlanMunn What happens if you hate hats?
 
@yo' Ah, ok.
 
yo'
@FaheemMitha you stop seeing them completely.
 
@FaheemMitha The current ID is matched both with the optional argument and \ReferencedIDs. That's the trick.
 
11:25 PM
@FaheemMitha Well they no longer appear when I'm viewing the page at least.
 
@yo' oh
I wonder if there is an unhate button, then.
@egreg Ok. Could you document that? Or should I add these links?
 
yo'
@FaheemMitha yep, there's
@Paulo anyways, I gotta go, I get up soon tomorrow. My parents will bring the rest of the presents I got, and then we're off to visit our relatives.
 
@yo' (English note: you can't contract the verb when there's something missing right after.)
 
@AlanMunn :-)
 
@yo' Good night, Tom! :)
 
11:33 PM
@FaheemMitha I added some notes
 
@egreg Thanks.
 
yo'
@AlanMunn I think I know actually ...
 
[paulo@satyagraha ~] $ arara -L tr
  __ _ _ __ __ _ _ __ __ _
 / _` | '__/ _` | '__/ _` |
| (_| | | | (_| | | | (_| |
 \__,_|_|  \__,_|_|  \__,_|

arara 3.0 - Şahane TeX otomasyon aracı
Copyright (c) 2012, Paulo Roberto Massa Cereda
Tüm hakları saklıdır.

usage: arara [file [--log] [--verbose] [--timeout N] [--language L] |
             --help | --version]
 -h,--help             yardım iletisini yazdırır
 -l,--log              kayıt çıktısı üretir
 -L,--language <arg>   uygulama dilini ayarlar
 -t,--timeout <arg>    yürütme zaman aşımını (milisaniye cinsinden)
arara is so easy. NOT. ^^ :)
 
cfr
@PauloCereda I will try if @Brent.Longborough will proof-read it. I will also give no guarantees. I am not a first language speaker. I make lots of cambymeriadau!
@PauloCereda On second thoughts, what exactly needs translation? Is it at least stuff for which the vocabulary is likely to exist? (This is a problem for Welsh...)
 
@cfr ooh I do this cambymeriadau thingy all the time. :)
@cfr That's indeed a good question. :) We would like to translate the application messages: github.com/cereda/arara/blob/master/application/src/main/…
 
cfr
11:44 PM
@PauloCereda How formal do you want the language? There are many grades of formality here...
@PauloCereda Is UTF8 encoding OK? (Accents.)
@PauloCereda LOG_INFO_WELCOME_MESSAGE=Croeso i arara {0}!
 
@cfr: I wanted Cockney Rhyming Slang to appear as well, but things don't look lemon squeesy. :)
@cfr Yes, it is! :) We are supporting direct UTF-8 in localization for the first time! :)
@cfr It's entirely up to the translator. My English is terrible, as it's reflected in the messages. :) The Portuguese translation is also complex because some things said in English are quite different in Portuguese. :)
 
cfr
@PauloCereda I'm serious. In English, it is fairly straightforward. In Welsh, how formal? is a key question. Presumably, not formal-like-the-Bible. But there's formal-like-the-news. Formal-like-an-article. Formal-like-a-talk. ...
 
@cfr What's your favourite, or the one you are most comfortable? :)
 
cfr
@PauloCereda Something like South-Walian informal with a bit of extra grammatical correctness thrown in. Sort of gwdihŵs with some extra treigladau, explicit pronouns and mostly cwmpasog verb forms.
 
@cfr ooh I almost understood 60% of it, I'm sold! :)
 
cfr
11:54 PM
@PauloCereda Which 60%?
 
@cfr Punctuation and some articles. :)
 
cfr
@PauloCereda You have to get Brent to proof-read, though. Or somebody. There's an English word for cwmpasog but I can't remember how to spell it.
 
@cfr We could poke @David too. :) He claims he knows most languages (as long as Google supports it). :)
 
cfr
@PauloCereda Google is less likely to know South-Walian. ('Standard' tends to be North-Walian.)
@PauloCereda No gwdihŵs, perhaps.
 
@cfr: thank you again and sorry if this might be a complex project. Feel free to help us on your own pace, I have a long way to walk. :)
@cfr: Nicola will try to translate it to Broad Norfolk. :)
 
cfr
11:58 PM
@PauloCereda Google says the English for 'gwdihŵs' is 'gwdihws'...
 
@cfr Oh no! :)
 
cfr
@PauloCereda Is it programmed never to admit it doesn't know?
 
I could ask @egreg to provide a venetian version. :)
 
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