@PauloCereda To me, all of that is Greek! At most, it sounds analogous to what happens in first-order logic versus n-th order logic.

@GonzaloMedina And it is. :) Good lambda calculus. :)

@GonzaloMedina yes one talks in terms of propositions the other types but it's the same thing, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositions_as_types

@DavidCarlisle: Hmmm.. Talk about unfair advantage: You copy my code and come up with a simpler solution!! Only problem is that you now have the same mistakes I did. egreg pointed it out for me -- I guess he thinks you should know better!! :-) The $\the\count0\colon 00$ should be \the\count0:00.

@PeterGrill I blame the OP for any formatting errors, I was only answering the about resetting:-) (also I's always use two digits (I think) 01:00 rather than 1:00.

@DavidCarlisle Well it is not really the OPs fault, it is mine as I had done that in a previous answer: Timeline with automatized hours and minutes. Yeah good point about using two digits I will add a comment to my answer for that.

@PeterGrill anyway I have no chance of catching you up now as you leaped well ahead of me and I have this robot to program (first program worked first time yeh! (I wish it was like that at work)

@DavidCarlisle Hey, wait that seems like a trick!! I haven't yet leaped, but working on it. Well you know the rule about when complicated things work the first time -- just means you have not tested it enough yet. :-) So this robot programming is not work?

not exactly work nor exactly my robot:-

Actually I think you'll will easily catch up after this week. I really really really hate doing taxes so I use this site to procrastinate. And that is one thing I am really good at. But after that I can get back to real work and then you will probably easily surpass me

@DavidCarlisle Ohhh that seem like fun!!

@DavidCarlisle I went to a conference in the beginning of the year and one of my friends presented a paper on discovering paths for robots, and he had one of those NXT's. The thing is amazing. :)

Friends, help please...

@KannappanSampath What's up?

I use TeXmaker. I have a local directory, integrated very well with MikTeX.

@KannappanSampath what would you like help with, lego, lambda calculus or cricket?

@DavidCarlisle TeX?!?

@KannappanSampath oh TeX? you're in the wrong room:-)

@DavidCarlisle Ok, know what to get my nephew for xmas, so he can watch me play with it.

@DavidCarlisle LaTeX?

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@PeterGrill LOL

@PeterGrill (for instance, I use my own sty file.)

But, now, I wanted to set up so that all my local bib files are available to the MikTeX.

@KannappanSampath Ok I can help you with tat just \usepackage{}.. Hope you are not going to ask about paths...

Thanks to Paulo, I have learnt to create a basic .bib file. I tried to put it into my local directory and FNDB but yet LaTeX has not managed to find its way to the bib.file.

@KannappanSampath Sorry don't know about path management very well. I tend to use relative paths, and don't know much about .bib files.

@KannappanSampath web2c has a BIBINPUTS variable with the path for bib files but I have no idea how that translates to miktex configuration as I've never used miktex

@KannappanSampath Does Creating a central bibliography help?

@PeterGrill I have followed Joseph's steps... but ... no luck. :(

But, thanks for that link. :)

@KannappanSampath Sounds like this might warrant being a proper question then, as then others can benefit from it as well.

@KannappanSampath just checking but when you say " LaTeX has not managed to find its way to the bib.file." latex itself never looks at the bib file that is the job of bibtex (or biber if you are very modern)

@PeterGrill True... I'm worried.

@DavidCarlisle Sorry; Thanks for pointing out that blasphemy.

@KannappanSampath Worried!! This is TeX you are talking about!! It can do anything!!

I actually pdflatex + pdflatex + bibtex + pdflatex 'd my document.

@Kannappan: I have no experience with MiKTeX, so sorry for the confusion: is your local folder correctly set up and visible through MiKTeX admin app?

@PeterGrill True. But, I am not a good master.

@KannappanSampath ah OK It's always worth checking that, as half the time bibtex problems are caused by not using bibtex:-)

@DavidCarlisle So true. :)

@KannappanSampath Your must have patience. Remember always two there: A master and an apprentice...

@PauloCereda Yes, for instance, I use a Preamble.sty from the local folder. So, it is surely integrated with Miktex. :)

The apprentice always kills the master... oh wait, those are the Sith guys. :P

:)

@KannappanSampath Local tree, you say? :)

@PauloCereda Hah, yes, I think.

@Kannappan: did you try Joseph's suggestion? tex.stackexchange.com/a/38297/3094 Just create the folder structure bibtex\bib\local inside your local tree and put your .bib there.

@PauloCereda Yes, those are the one who use Word. Be wary of them.

@PeterGrill LOL

@KannappanSampath: Try C:\Local TeX Files\bibtex\bib\local and put your file there. Refresh the database.

And C:\Please try to avoid\directories with\spaces, they are evil. :)

@Paulo ^^ You see, I had done that... Should I explicitly use the word "local"?

@KannappanSampath Yes. :) Exactly as it is. :)

@PauloCereda I'll rectify that now. Thanks for the hat tip.

@KannappanSampath <3

@PauloCereda Local. Did. It. sigh

Hail The Saviour. Paulo His Name.

@KannappanSampath TeX directory hierarchy. :)

@PauloCereda Intersting I just started on a project and was worried about that, but seem to be ok (at least for my purposes which is \href). What gave me grief was when a file or directory had an & in it, but for that I decided to just change the name rather than try to figure it out.

@PauloCereda Thanks Paulo. :)

Now, I AM HAPPY. Back to TeXing! :)

@PeterGrill Nowadays, OSes handle paths better. We just need to be cautious with possible invalid characters in the path. :)

@KannappanSampath I did nothing. You did. :)

@PauloCereda :)) You keep telling me this. 'tis nay truth.

@PauloCereda Agreed it is just easier to not deal with it, but for some applications spaces make more sense especially with longer file name. Again, I am only really using \href so have been ok so far (and this is on a PC).

I have been using trello, a smart app.

@PeterGrill Ah yes. :) To be honest, I think spaces are not that dangerous. Some real annoyances might appear with a high path depth or invalid charsets. My dad loves folders inside folders inside folders inside folders. And very long names. :)

@PauloCereda I think windows has problems around 255. Am surprised that they made that limit so small.

Friends, I'll be here later. Coffee time. I need to walk a mile to get a tiny little cup of coffee. :(

@KannappanSampath Let me guess: It is uphill, both ways!!

@PeterGrill OK, I won't complain. :)

Bye and Thank you for all your help.

@KannappanSampath Wow. That coffee must have had a lot of caffeine as that was a quick 2mile walk!!

@PeterGrill :) I am so used to this routine.

Also, a quick help: Where's \url{} defined?

Don't know. is it perhaps the url package?

As in, will TeX know without my including any package?

Oh, TeX, sorry can't help you there..

I doubt that that is from TeX as url's were not really know back in the 80s.

Oh, I see. I added that package and it compiles. No Complaints from TeX. So, I assume I am doing fine. Thank you for your help. :)

@KannappanSampath I think if you want click able links perhaps use hyperref, but I am no expert in that area.

I just get things to work and then try not to break them.

@PeterGrill As it turns out, my Preamble.sty is so cruel that hyperref cries every time it counters a new environment I have defined... So, I'd better keep quiet. :) Edit: Corrected Typo

That debugging is perhaps after I have grownup. :P

@KannappanSampath I think hyperref should be loaded almost as the last package. See Best practice on organising your preamble, Sorting preamble packages thematically while accounting for compulsory load orders,

and Packages that need to be included in a specific order

@PeterGrill did you get your hyperlinks sorted out?

@cmhughes Well I accidentally discovered a manual solution (posted in the comments) that worked, bu don't know how to automate it.

@PeterGrill that's good :) do you think the inequality question is similar to

@cmhughes Its related but sufficiently different. There is some issues coming up as he is using paterns and not fill. I haven't used patterns so don't know how to help. I was about to correct his MWE when I noticed you just did it.

Second day of EuroTeX: now Uwe Ziegenhagen: "Professional Business Reports with LATEX"

Leo Arnold is still preparing his talk (second talk today)... "Many versions from one source - LATEX for lecturers and teachers"

@topskip Cool. We do that for the UK-TUG LaTeX training :-)

(I hope you don't mind me spamming this chat with useless info)

@topskip Not at all: it's nice to have a 'live feed'

@topskip Agree with Joseph. Much better that having to go to Twitter.

Never seen this SQL statement before: SELECT "\\documentclass{article}\r\n\\begin{document}"

BTW: here is the program again: ntg.nl/eurotex2012/program.pdf - next will be @TacoHoekwater and Hans with two talks each ("MetaPost path resolution isolated", "Parsing PDF content streams with LuaTEX" and "context: the script", "context: after cleanup")

BTW: some tex.sx users are here as well (Herbert, Taco, Martin Schröder and probably more I don't know)

@topskip Oh my! :) It returns the string. :)

@JosephWright: could you unfreeze our blog room? chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/884 :)

@PauloCereda Done

@JosephWright Thanks. :)

(wifi is overused here, and it sometimes takes forever to log in)

@topskip Peoplez are spamming torrentz. :)

@PauloCereda TeXliffe torrentz of corze

@topskip Indeed. :)

@PeterGrill Thanks for your effort! :) @DavidCarlisle You too :D and @egreg of course.

BTW: I've showed tex.sx and Leo Arnold has done some advertisement for this site as well. Let's see if we get more TeXies here

Dear bloggers (@JosephWright, @AndrewStacey, @StefanKottwitz, @MartinScharrer, @HarishKumar, @egreg, and the others): I've posted some ideas in our blog room. When you guys have some time, could you take a look at them? chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/884

@PauloCereda I don't belong to that room :P

so I flee

@percusse Nooooo!

@percusse: Go back there, you are now a blogger! :)

Yep, I knew this would happen.

@percusse tex.blogoverflow.com/wp-admin

Then ping Joseph. :)

I think that instantfun has a memory leak :) I hope you see this because I don't

Ah we're back

This is regular screenshot it was 500MB for FF :)

@percusse It happens to me too. :)

Quick help, how do I make a line break in \GenericWarning?

@tohecz Use two of them ?

@percusse you get an empty line in between

@tohecz I'm done then :)

@tohecz \MessageBreak

@DavidCarlisle seems not to work well

@DavidCarlisle sorry it works

@tohecz I blame the user, It must work brilliantly:-)

ahh see:-)

if only I were able to write Brake correctly

@tohecz well of course that is one of the benefits of the English language that you can have multiple pronunciations for the same spelling and multiple spellings for the same pronunciation. It's revenge for making us learn all those funny accents.

lol, yeah

and even then we're not 100% bijective

consider (two existing words) "objet" and "oběd"

or "být" and "bít"

Hi folks… quickie: How can I have "o not render as ö by default?

Probably due to \usepackage[ngerman]{babel}, but I'd rather not want to remove that.

@slhck \shorthandoff?

@JosephWright Ah, nice one. Thanks!

(eurotex) Now Hans Hagen with two ConTeXt talks (more will follow)

@topskip Great

@DavidCarlisle How did the lego go?

@AndrewStacey M built the first "starter" robot design with no bother at all (but with 8.5 man years of lego practice fitted into 9 years of life that wasn't a surprise) then with a bit of help from me we got the first program (in a lego customised labview environment) written that activated the colour sensor to turn the robot round if it saw red. worked first time! (then well past bed time so had to stop:-) Tonight's plan is stage two: to make it shoot balls at anyone who comes close

@DavidCarlisle Sounds good. I have the old mindstorms back in Norway, but had to use NQC to program it as I don't have (or wouldn't load) Windows, so we never really worked on the programming aspect. But now that I have a Mac, we were looking at the new Mindstorms for my nearly 9yr old so I'm curious as to your experiences.

@tohecz Etymologically different, though. The "y" used to be a different vowel (similar to the Russian yery) and it doesn't cause palatalization of the preceding consonant. Also "objet" and "oběd" are different words that became to be pronounced similarly because of a common phenomenon in almost all Slavic languages (final consonants are devoiced): when you use terminations after "d" it changes pronunciation, doesn't it?

Guys, I always forget. foo~\cite{bar}. or foo\cite{bar}.?

@PauloCereda Is there a rule? Doesn't this depend on style/typography rules and what \cite expands to?

@Qrrbrbirlbel I don't think there's a rule. :) I think when \cite{bar} expands to [1], the ~ is a nice use. :)

Sorry, I'm still not used with my enter key. :)

Exactly, if you get [1], I'd use ~, too. But when it is [CER12] a normal space would be better, wouldn't it?

@Qrrbrbirlbel Yes, I think so. :)

(EuroTeX) Now a MetaPost tutorial by Mari Voipio

I wonder if they will talk about arara in EuroTeX. :)

@PauloCereda @MarcoDaniel should come to a EuroTeX conference!

@topskip We can ping him, I bet he will drive to Breskens. Give him 5 - 10 minutes. :)

Germans. <3

yay! I get to post xsl to tex.sx we need more xml here.

ah but I just deleted it as Daniel S had posted the identical code in the meantime

Oh no, BitBucket was redesigned!

@PauloCereda From Hamburg to Breskens only 638 km: two and a half hour trip for Marco. :)

Oh, no! 200 km are in the Netherlands and Belgium. Speed limit! Three hours.

@egreg Yes, if there's an end-of-word or another consonant after "d", we pronounce it "t"

similarly "z"->"s"

@egreg ooh! :)

@tohecz Is the genitive "obědu"? If so, has it a "d" and not a "t"?

yes. Nominativ oběd [objet], Genitiv obědu [objedu]

The funny thing is: "objet" = "go around", "objedu" = "I will go around"

in the verb "objet", the change t->d appears even in the written form

ugh

everything looks out of place if I try to replace default fonts for web :s

@egreg haha, 333 km from Paris the only 3 pitiful things are 1) no car, 2) no vacation, 3) a virosis...

installing tex live on new machine :s

@Gnintendo Yay!

:D

oh goodness, this is going unfathomably slow

Wait a minute, I can listen to radio within iTunes?! OMG!

:O

mind=blown

bbl ;)

@PauloCereda I spoke to Nicola today about her book. The bird was originally meant to be a canary, but came out as a parrot-of-sorts :-) Next book will have the same picture with a mortar board on the parrot!

@PauloCereda Hmm, a bit odd

@JosephWright Oh my! :) It looks like a parrot (and it shares some similarities with an arara too). :) Well, I don't know if she knows about araras. :P

@JosephWright I'm completely lost.

@PauloCereda Original drawing by a friend of hers, then converted to vector format

@JosephWright Ah! :) Well, barbara mentioned that my cute duck isn't actually a duck at all. :P

Some sort of generic bird. :)

@PauloCereda My next task to to get lots of people to buy her book :-)

@JosephWright We can write a blog post here too. :) And lure her to register. :)

@PauloCereda I've tried, honest

@PauloCereda Nicola is in the small set of TeX people I really do know (i.e. I've met her!)

@JosephWright: do you know if she has any plans of translating the book to other languages? :)

@PauloCereda Well, it's GPL so anyone could do it

@JosephWright hmmm interesting. :)

@JosephWright I don't know any TeX guy personally. :(

@Joseph: Can I send an email to you later on today? I'd like to ask for some enlightment. :)

@PauloCereda Sure

@JosephWright Thanks. :)

Please TikZ help: how can I make a rectangle node "tight" around its contents?

\node[fill,color=red,rectangle] (c) at (1,1) {\tiny\sffamily\color{black}text};

@tohecz inner sep=0pt ?

@TorbjørnT. great, thanks!

what package is better to add color to tables?

@leo colour the text or colour the background

@DavidCarlisle the background

I remember 2 packages

well colortbl is the usual one can't say if it's best or not since I wrote it:-0

colortable

and that one!

@DavidCarlisle I see :-)

EuroTeX: just finished a "conference proceedings folder folding workshop" and tomorrow: an excursion

duh... there is no colortable package!

@leo Some years ago it was customary to use package names consisting of at most eight characters, because a well known software house's masterpiece could only manage file names up to that limit.

@egreg I see. I didn't knew that

@egreg also ISO format CDROM

@leo I don't know if it's still the same, but until a few years ago, the masterpiece used a translation table, so the "long names" actually corresponded to mysterious internal file names.

@egreg still the same:-)

@DavidCarlisle Why did ISO decide to allow at most eight characters? :)

I have a suspect. :)

The High Sierra format was adopted in 1988, when most operating systems allowed file names longer than 8 characters; but it would have been too difficult for the best software house in the world to change from 8+3.

Yay, now I have a widget to tell me the weather without the need of me looking outside the window! :)

@PauloCereda I have benn having that for years, and I consider it one of the top lazy gadgets :D

Another TikZ help needed: how do I draw an arrow head in the middle of a line?

@tohecz :)

@PauloCereda Sunny, 32 degrees. :)

Here it's rainy, 19.

@egreg Indeed. :) The widget is very cool. :)

@egreg Oh. :(

@PauloCereda It's autumn, after all.

@egreg Indeed.

@tohecz With a decoration:

\documentclass{report}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usetikzlibrary{decorations.markings}

\begin{document}

\begin{tikzpicture}[decoration={markings, mark=at position 0.5 with {\arrow{stealth}}}]
 \draw [postaction={decorate}] (0,0) -- (3,1) ;
\end{tikzpicture}

\end{document}

Here goes for installing TeXLive on a Raspberry Pi. Got the size down to under 400Mb by being ruthless.

@AndrewStacey Yay!

@GonzaloMedina thanks, it works!

@egreg: ^^ :)

@PauloCereda It says different things from mine, while it's the same widget!

@egreg Uh-oh! :)

My Macs speak English. :)

@tohecz The "it works" makes me wonder if you doubted it would work ;-)

@egreg The forecast is colder in yours. :)

@egreg No Italian? Blasphemy. :)

@GonzaloMedina There seem to be troubles with different things in TikZ when you're a beginner

@PauloCereda The language used in localizations is often quite disputable.

btw: do you like my scheme? tohe.wz.cz/www/dl/untitled-1.pdf

@egreg Agreed. :)

@PauloCereda Not the ones in arara, of course. :)

@egreg Oh yes! Those are a true capolavoro! :)

Speaking of translations, I once tried Dictation (a new feature from 10.8) just for the fun of it. I'm afraid that either my accent is bad or the recognition software is not good. :)

@PauloCereda Dictation knows you.

@egreg Too much, apparently. :)

@PauloCereda or both :p

ok, first true experience with TikZ, and it seems that it can be useful :p

now, I should go to bed

is there a longtable analogue to tabularx?

longtable with a width argument

@leo have a look at tabu

@tohecz thanks :-)

I've never used tabu so I'm not sure about its features

@tohecz LOL

@leo Be prepared to have nightmares tonight, after having seen the "typography" of the manual.

@egreg I haven't see it yet, so I'm safe, by now :-)

@leo I can't talk more about that nightmare; the radio has the finale of K551, that is, Mozart's last symphony.

@PauloCereda well, you claim yourself that your accent is bad, and we all know that the voice recognition doesn't work well yet.

what's wrong with this:

\documentclass[12pt,
               letterpaper,
              ]{article}
\usepackage{amsmath,amssymb,amsopn,amsthm,wasysym}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\usepackage[
			,textwidth=15cm
			,centering
		    ,ignoreall
           ]
           {geometry}
\usepackage{multirow,tabularx}
\usepackage{ifthen,calc}
\newcommand\fila[1]{%
	\ifthenelse{\isodd{#1}}{%
		\rowcolor[gray]{.8} a &b&c&d	}{%
		a &b&c&d%
	}
}
\begin{document}
\begin{tabular}{cccc}
\fila{1} \\
\fila{2}
\end{tabular}
\end{document}

@leo A command such as \ifthenelse cannot contain \rowcolor, that must be the first thing on a tabular line. It does assignments, so \rowcolor is seen after them and can't do it's work or, better, it raises an error.

I know. I don't have loaded colortabl :-S

\newcommand\fila[1]{%
  \ifodd#1
    \rowcolor[gray]{.8}%
  \fi
  \circled{a} & \circled{b} & \circled{c} & \circled{d}%
}

@leo It's not sufficient, as I explained before.

@egreg noted

You have to use a primitive conditional, which doesn't have the limitation of \ifthenelse. So \ifodd works.

@egreg why \ifthenelse doesn't work like the TeX standar \if? I thought that \ifthenelse was an attempt to give us userfriendly conditionals or something like that

What does it even exist?

@leo It's a bit complicated. It has to do with how TeX manages tables; some items must appear in specific positions. SInce \rowcolor uses \noalign, it must appear between rows. However the workings of \ifthenelse cause unexpandable tokens to be used and they start a new table row, so when \rowcolor is seen, it's too late: the \noalign is not between rows any more, but inside one. Hence Misplaced \noalign.

@egreg I always saw recommendations to avoid use TeX primitives, but they are needed! almost always

when you want to do something useful, at least to you. You always need conditionals, loops an so on

@leo You can use \ifnumodd of etoolbox

\newcommand\fila[1]{%
  \ifnumodd{#1}{\rowcolor[gray]{.8}}{}%
  \circled{a} & \circled{b} & \circled{c} & \circled{d}%
}

Requires \usepackage{etoolbox}

Dear @Peter, I am not nitpicking, but there is a very minor typo in your answer: here.

doen -> done... :)

@egreg what is I need some while construct? I guess \whiledo of ifthen package is not a good choice. It must be inside a tabular/tabularx

@KannappanSampath hello!

@leo Hello! I think we have met each other on SX no? :)

@leo Loops and tables don't mix very well. It might be a topic for a good question.

@leo How are you doing?

@KannappanSampath indeed, in mathSE

@KannappanSampath fine trying to do some things in LaTeX

@egreg I'll prepare something to ask in the main site

@egreg Hmm. How true. Many people allow 0 in their multiplicative set and allow pathologies while just politely asking 0 to keep away will keep the exposition straight. :) (talking about localisations)

@leo Cool! Have fun. :)

@KannappanSampath It's not so big a problem, IMO. The zero ring is quite easy, isn't it? :)

What I always require is that 1 is in the multiplicative set.

@egreg yes, but you see, it does not have a maximal ideal. :) (Edit: The language was unnecessarily confusing.)

@KannappanSampath I'm having! :-) but I wish some more loops around there

@KannappanSampath Oh, that? Just decree that it has one. :)