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12:01 AM
Should this post be considered an answer? Also, is there anything (besides what's already been requested) that we can ask the OP? Should the question be considered unclear?
 
 
1 hour later…
@pomsky I believe the minimal, server, and old alternate CDs for Ubuntu use debian-installer. (If not, they use something that is very closely derived from debian-installer and is likely to be called debian-installer even if it's technically a fork.) So it being about debian-installer isn't a reason for it to be off-topic.
 
 
3 hours later…
4:03 AM
NAA (maybe spam but I'm not sure)
It's a very Windows-specific answer for an Ubuntu question, and it links to software in a way that looks promotional. I wasn't sure it was spam, but it's not an attempt to answer the question that was actually asked, so I flagged it a NAA and voted to delete it.
Somewhat similar situation here (which Smokey thinks is spam, apparently because that program has been spammed about before).
 
4:28 AM
Both gone now
 
Cool.
So, I'm interested in revisiting the matter of whether or not one of Why should users never use normal sudo to start graphical applications? and What is the difference between “gksudo nautilus” and “sudo nautilus”? should be closed as a duplicate of the other.
 
@EliahKagan I feel it is unclear and the answer is NaA, but perhaps we could interpret it as a very generic question with a verrry generic not very helpful answer :/
I think I'll cast a close vote
I have done but I don't feel very good about it
 
@EliahKagan I recall that no clear resolution occurred back in what I presume to have been September 2017 when I ended up just posting "related" comments on each question, linking them to each other.
@Zanna About the close vote on that question?
@EliahKagan The reason--and maybe some or all of this should get moved to the island but I don't want to start it there because it's related to the issue of what should be done in the future with those questions and answers (which I definitely don't want deleted!) is that I think sudo might start behaving in a relevantly different way starting in 19.10.
ek@Apok:~$ sudo printenv HOME
/root
ek@Apok:~$ lsb_release -rd
Description:    Ubuntu Eoan Ermine (development branch)
Release:        19.10
@Zanna I went ahead and flagged the answer NAA.
@Natty tp
 
@EliahKagan delete voted
@EliahKagan yes
@EliahKagan oooh
 
4:43 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, blacklisted website in answer (178): Filezilla asks for key (which doesn't exist), only in my laptop by Emma L on askubuntu.com
 
I don't think Eoan is at the point yet where a question about how sudo will behave differently in it would be considered on-topic for the main site. I could post a question on Launchpad Answers about it. We've discussed the various questions about that, though (not just those two, IIRC, but also What specific bad things happen when gedit is used with sudo? which at one time was almost wrongly deleted) so I figured you'd be interested.
(In no way do I intend to restrict this to us, though: obviously anybody who sees these messages is welcome to share their thoughts if they're interested and able to do so. So far, I think this is on-topic for the Downboat... most technical off-topic conversations do start this way, though... :) )
 
@Natty tp
(I believe it's spam, too, and I flagged it as such when Smokey mentioned it.)
I have two Eoan systems. One is freshly installed from a minimal CD. The other is a WSL system that I upgraded to Eoan with do-release-upgrade -d. They both exhibit this new behavior, where the HOME environment variable is set to the home directory for root rather than for ek (my non-root user) even when neither -H nor -i is passed.
I guess I should first verify that this actually is new as of 19.10!
I've only ever used 19.04 as a step in the process of upgrading to 19.10. If the change were made in 19.04, I suppose someone would've posted a comment or answer (or proposed an edit) about it on one of those questions or their answers, but maybe not. I wouldn't have noticed the change for the brief time I was using 19.04.
Do you have a 19.04 system?
(unrelated) I think we can consider this question a duplicate.
 
4:59 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +8 more (890): topwellnessblog.com/keto-bodytone/ by gabriella7 on askubuntu.com
 
5:37 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, body starts with title and ends in url, link at end of body, +6 more (691): atozfitnesstalks.com/keto-body-tone-france/ by MitchesHudsion on askubuntu.com
 
@Natty tp
^^^ I think the other two answers on that question (by that same user) are NAA as well.
 
6:45 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted website in answer, potentially bad ns for domain in answer (93): Dual boot MS Surface PRO issues by saddham hussain on askubuntu.com
 
Am I missing something here, or is this post just a question posted as an answer?
 
@EliahKagan VTD
 
[ Natty | Sentinel ] Link to Post Low Length; Low Rep; 0.5;
 
dupe (now closed)
 
7:52 AM
@Zanna I've verified this behavior is new as of 19.10 by comparing the output of sudo printenv HOME run by a non-root user on the ubuntu:19.04 and ubuntu-daily:19.10 LXD images. And my Debian 10 system has the new behavior, suggesting it's not transitory and will be in 19.10 when released. I think the next thing to do is figure out where (upstream? downstream?), when, and why the change was made.
The difference isn't in the default /etc/sudoers. That file is the same in the ubuntu:19.04 and ubuntu-daily:19.10 images.
 
8:32 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, body starts with title and ends in url, link at end of body, +2 more (588): Derma RPX Coming the segment by jocenamax on askubuntu.com
 
 
1 hour later…
9:55 AM
@Natty ne
 
10:52 AM
@EliahKagan seems like an improvement :)
sorry for my absence
unexpected housework necessitated by uninvited 4 footed long tailed guest
 
@Zanna Definitely not a problem!
 
:)
 
@EliahKagan hope they will post a new question - looks like it could be useful
 
Indeed.
@Natty tp
 
10:55 AM
I'm still using 18.04
 
[impact] sudo does not set HOME to the target user's HOME [test case] ddstreet@thorin:~$ sudo printenv | grep HOME HOME=/home/ddstreet [regression potential] this is a significant behavior change. As mentioned in comment 11 (and later, and other bugs duped to this, and the mailing list discussion, etc) users of Ubuntu so far have been used to running sudo with their own HOME set, not root's HOME. Therefore, it's inappropriate to change this behavior for existing releases; this should be changed starting in Eoan, and only the sudo and sudoers man pages changed in previous releases to indicate the actual behavior of sudo in those releases. [other info] Shortly after upstream changed the behavior, the patch to keep HOME as the calling (instead of target) user was added in bug 760140. For quick reference to anyone coming to this bug, the pre-19.10 behavior (of sudo keeping the calling user's $HOME) can be disabled by running 'sudo visudo' and adding this line: Defaults
sudo (Ubuntu)
Medium / Fix Released
Apparently it's pretty much Ubuntu (and its derivatives) in which sudo has preserved $HOME by default in recent years, and I just haven't used Debian enough (until just lately) to notice.
According to that bug report, Ubuntu is going to work like other OSes and no longer patch sudo to preserve $HOME, starting in 19.10.
 
I didn't bring my other laptop to India. There is a customs rule about bringing 2 laptops. So the heavy one with the dodgy keyboard stayed at my parents' place. So I only have the one that doesn't like Ubuntu. Around the time I was wanting to intall 18.04, the USB ports all totally stopped working, so I had to do-release-upgrade from 17.10 before it went EoL, hoping it would work out. After a few days, the USB ports started working again without me doing anything.
But otherwise this laptop is feeling rickety. Things are temperamental. The keyboard is unresponsive (probably too much dust in there). So I have not upgraded. Trying to be gentle with it. My mind was also elsewhere
 
Is the one you have with you the one that has a strange kind of EFI?
 
yes :)
@EliahKagan wow, interesting thread
I guess I had never really thought about why this was an issue on Ubuntu
enlightening stuff
 
Can you think of any good reasons for sudo to preserve $HOME by default? In hindsight, I cannot, at least not at the moment.
 
11:11 AM
no... I can't imagine what they thought when they did it
but noticed a comment there about users being potentially upset by the change
 
:)
The use case described in the comment about wanting editor configuration to be used automatically by root seems bad, because that's also the situation where things go wrong due to running sudo without -H or -i. If a new configuration file ends up being created, it will be owned by root.
 
yeah!
 
Also, people should use sudoedit.
 
I am thinking that the only reason you could want that would be if you always use a particular editor when you want to be root for some reason, but why not use sudoedit for that?
 
I don't know why people don't use sudoedit but years ago I was one of those people, misunderstanding how it worked.
 
11:17 AM
maybe they don't know about it
 
@Zanna I'm skeptical of the wisdom of automatically having root's editor configuration be the same as that of another user.
 
yeah...
 
The alternatives are more complex, though. Except sudoedit.
Some people may prefer to run editors directly as root. But if so, presumably that's because they want an environment that belongs to root and isn't influenced unexpectedly from the outside.
So for that, I think the better solution would be to keep editor configuration files in source control. Then root can get the new versions by merging, and can undo it if something goes wrong.
 
@Natty tp
Or if the configuration never actually changes, then just make a copy. Or seed it in /etc/skel before creating users (or before most users). Or put it somewhere users can read but only root can write (if it's really never to be changed).
 
11:29 AM
source control?
 
Like Git. Or Bazaar.
 
oh right
yeah
 
11:45 AM
It will be interesting as answers on Ask Ubuntu are updated to account for the sudo change in 17.10. Ubuntu 16.04 remains supported until April 2021. Ubuntu 19.10 is planned for release in October of this year. So, starting in a couple months and going for about a year and a half, there will be:
(a) an officially supported release that still has gksu officially packaged (which used to be, and for that release still is, the best way to run graphical programs as root, if one must do so), 16.04 LTS
(b) a couple supported releases for which the current guidance is pretty good, mainly 18.04 LTS, and
(c) another for which most of the guidance about why running graphical programs as root using sudo without -H or -i causes problems is no longer accurate, 19.10.
 
That will be fun :)
 
@Natty tp
 
 
1 hour later…
@Natty tp
 
2:55 PM
I think this question can be closed as a duplicate.
@Zanna I'm pleased that they posted a question.
 
@EliahKagan +1
 
dupe (assuming it's on-topic)
 
@Natty tp
 
@EliahKagan added the canonical post ...*put Windows back on* as a target
 
3:08 PM
Thanks.
 
Idk why the formatting broke there, I think I need a space after the ellipsis, but I don't wanna ping you again trying to fix it
 
@Zanna Feel free to ping me again! :)
(If you like.)
I am always curious to learn the details of the many subtly different dialects of Markdown used throughout Stack Exchange.
 
Haha thanks :) looks like it's too late now, but I guess most readers of this room can render markdowns mentally XD
...*test*
... test
 
[ Natty | Sentinel ] Link to Post Ends with ?; Low Length; No Code Block; One Line only; Low Rep; 5.0;
 
4:08 PM
@Natty fp
@Natty tp
@Zanna Sorry, I said 17.10 when I meant 19.10. I did that in AUGR too. Ugh.
 
4:41 PM
@EliahKagan no worries
 
^^^ Is the last sentence of that post a workaround?
(unrelated) Clearly not addressing the main thing being asked for in the question (to avoid the large size).
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Username similar to website in answer (57): How to get notified (run script) on every SSH connection? by Saud Iqbal on askubuntu.com
 
 
2 hours later…
6:35 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +7 more (988): health-body.org/just-keto/ by cuxaju on askubuntu.com
 
7:09 PM
@EliahKagan Bionic prints /home/kulfy :o
 
7:58 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer, potentially problematic ns configuration in answer (81): ImportError: No named '_tkinter', please install the python3-tk package by jitendra kumar on askubuntu.com
 
8:15 PM
@Natty tp
Spam in fact
@EliahKagan I think so. I feel the author of the post is not satisfied with this workaround and is looking for help rather than offering though. Still, I'm not sure what to do and will probably skip
 
8:31 PM
@EliahKagan I had my doubts, thanks a lot for clarifying.
Should this be reopened? This one's about pinning specific files to dock (e.g. spreadsheet) whereas the target is about pinning folders. Answers are related, but slightly different.
 
@pomsky Yeah, I think it should be reopened. You might want to comment. I think you can explain the issue better than I can (especially since you wrote both the top-voted answers). I've voted to reopen it.
@Natty tp
 
9:04 PM
@EliahKagan Post already reported
 
Is this post an answer? I don't think the problem is the absence of instructions on how to install KDE. Does KDE do what the OP wants? Is the author of this answer trying to say it does?
@Kulfy Yeah, the change is as of 19.10.
 
@EliahKagan I feel more like a generalised "GNOME sucketh, KDE rulez" kinda comment, not about the specific question (maybe not, but OP didn't leave any justification). It's deleted now.
 
Is KDE more like Windows than GNOME is, these days?
 
9:22 PM
Probably, at least if you compare with older Windows versions (e.g. XP), not sure about newer Windows versions (haven't used in ages). For example GNOME got rid of taskbars with a list of open windows, an appliction-menu button (something like the Start button in Windows) etc..
 
9:40 PM
Is this a standalone answer? Looks like a comment on the other answer (disclaimer: by moi). OP also seems to have raised some points, but TBH I couldn't make out what they are trying to say.
 
I'm not sure, but I'm more comfortable letting possible NAA sit a while on meta than on the main site, even in the tag. Or, rather, I'm less comfortable removing things as NAA there. Unlike on the main site, on meta questions don't always have to be asking something and answers don't always have to be providing solutions, which doesn't mean NAA isn't a real thing on meta (it is, especially in ), but it does make me less comfortable doing moderation actions.
Is it reasonable to edit the insight in this comment into the answer? When no .inputrc exists in a user's home directory, they'll automatically use /etc/inputrc, so it's not actually the case that "If you have these in /etc/inputrc, the file needs to be included from ~/.inputrc".
 
@EliahKagan Yeah, for the same reason (i.e. being a meta post) I didn't take any action.
 
@Natty tp
But is it actually true that "The apt-get update command is run by the system regularly by default "? This seems to be drawn from that source which actually says "Therefore it basically calls the command `apt-get update" [emphasis mine].
Is there a good link (perhaps to a post on Ask Ubuntu, but it wouldn't have to be) for commenting on the many, many answers that recommend to run apt-get dist-upgrade or apt dist-upgrade (or even those things with -y!) without mentioning that they can remove packages?
On this answer I posted a link to that but I'm not sure it's best. Maybe something stating explicitly that you can just use apt upgrade these days?
 
10:30 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, pattern-matching product name in body, potentially bad keyword in body (196): egotistic remarks about their items by Worythe90 on askubuntu.com
 
10:59 PM
 

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