Vedanta and Philosophy

Tezz

16:00

@Pandya Oh ok.. btw when I read commentaries and Yoga Sutras then I feel my concenteration power is increasing greatly....

I just go on practicing what Sutras and commentaries say...

@Pandya Oh ok... we will discuss latter then on this topic...

Pandya

@Tezz Btw, regarding to Dhyana, Upanishads/Vedanta briefly preach to Dhyana on Atman and Brahman. It doesn't explain how to deeply.

@Tezz Whereas if one want to learn Dhyana then I think Yoga is what it is about right?

Tezz

@Pandya yes you are right .... however Svetasvatara Upanishad gives somehow information like position of body etc... while performing Dhyana...

@Pandya Yes, Yogic Dhyana helps to give more clear perception to understand Vedantic Brahman...

Pandya

@Tezz now, the question is Can one go through Upanishads only for approaching to Brahman or he should refer to Yoga for learning Dhyana? (As we know Upanishads are purly spiritual and represents Atman/Brahman, it doesn't provide much information on Dhyana, rathet they do describe Param Satya directly)

Tezz

लघुत्वमारोग्यमलोलुपत्वं 
        वर्णप्रसादः स्वरसौष्ठवं च । 
गन्धः शुभो मूत्रपुरीषमल्पं 
        योगप्रवृत्तिं प्रथमां वदन्ति ॥ १३॥ 
The precursors of perfection in yoga, they say, are lightness and healthiness of the body, absence of desire, clear complexion, pleasantness of voice, sweet odour and slight excretions.

As gold covered by earth shines bright after it has been purified, so also the yogi, realising the truth of Atman, becomes one with the non−dual Atman, attains the goal and is free from grief.

Pandya

Html codes and entity don't worth with chat.

Tezz

16:09

It is automatically generated..

Pandya

oh! ok

The Destroyer

@Pandya Yoga helps to expand our consciousness with help of body but Vedanta does it with Knowledge but second one is very slow.

@Pandya Everything procedure we do for mingling (for union) with Brahman is Yoga. Bhakti Yoga, Karma Yoga. it's not mandatory to always to sit in Padmasana in yoga.

Tezz

@Pandya what I think is Yogic Dhyana is needed to perceive Atman/Brahman clearly... although we know "This universe is illusion." But still we do not perceive universe as illusion..so Knowing should actually be experiencing (not just knowing) which is possible through Regular practice concenteration and yoga...

The Destroyer

@Tezz one such method is Jnana Yoga through Upanishads. It is also yoga.

Pandya

@Tezz to be honest I want to clear Upanishadic and Yogic Dhyana for the approach to Param Satya.

The Destroyer

16:13

@Pandya Swami Sivanananda site may help you.

Pandya

@TheDestroyer I know it's not mandatory to sit in Padmasana in Yoga.

Tezz

@Pandya Svet upan. 2.9 also says:

The yogi of well regulated endeavours should control the pranas; when they are quieted he should breathe out through the nostrils. Then let him undistractedly restrain his mind, as a charioteer restrains his vicious horses.

The Destroyer

@Pandya Best way is utilizing Physical Yoga and Vedanta (Jnana). Quick and best as per my opinion, with Karma Yoga.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer yes ... Jnana yoga..

Pandya

@TheDestroyer I'm not looking for resources this time, instead I need fruitful discussion with knowledge person that's why I've said earlier "let me discuss with Tezz" ; don't mind.

The Destroyer

16:15

@Pandya ohh ok. Site has basic intro.

Tezz

@Pandya we can do Pranayamas and Dharanas by yogic method so that we can have clear perceptions and intellect.. and in the same time we can also go with Vedantic teachings... like meditations on Mahavakyas and Brahmavidyas... In this way I think one reaches to Parama Satyam...

@Pandya Gita also says "Mind is the cause of bondage and liberation..." So, any method which helps to control mind are useful...

Pandya

@Tezz Yes. Btw, whay do you think Adi Shankaracharya should had followed Yoga path or not?

@Tezz Yes, thanks for your valuable suggestion.

The Destroyer

@Tezz @Pandya BTW, best translation of Patanjali Yoga Sutras with Vyasa Bhasya is by Pandit Usharbudh Arya.

Tezz

@Pandya "Adi Shankaracharya should had followed"... ? (I don't understand clearly)...

Rakesh Joshi

@Tezz nice points shared by you (i m in agreement with many of them)

Tezz

16:22

@TheDestroyer Oh... ok..

The Destroyer

@Tezz but I have only Samadhi Pada.

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi Thank you!...

Pandya

@Tezz I mean आदि शंकरचार्य ने योग-ध्यान से परम सत्य को जाना होगा या सिर्फ उपनिषद्-ध्यान से या combination of both?

Tezz

@TheDestroyer do you have Swami Vivekanandas commentary on it ?..

The Destroyer

@Tezz Ganghadar Jha also made a translation but Pandit Usharbudh Arya is best as he explains each sutra very clearly.

Pandya

16:24

@TheDestroyer Do you have it?

The Destroyer

@Tezz Yeah. I have it. I think that is included in complete works.

Tezz

@Pandya I think he knew through combination of both... actually Yoga and Vedanta are intertwined...so one can't say that I do only one...

2

The Destroyer

@Pandya Yes. but i was able to get only Volume 1. I searched a lot for volume 2.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer Oh ok...

Rakesh Joshi

but i want to add that dhyana is integral part of every system. wheter indian or western

further Adi shankaras approach did have yogic and tantrirc methods

there will be certainly activation of chakras / kundalini as it happens during the progress in spiritual path.

even if a moslem or christian , if they advance in the spiritual path, there will be kundalini come into play . though he may or may not be aware of concept of kundalini

The Destroyer

16:26

@RakeshJoshi Yoga is Indian or Hindu Science. Don't say western. Shiva is Adi Yogi.

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi are you initiated in Kashmiri Shaivism.. ?..

Rakesh Joshi

i m saying whoever progresses in spiritual path will surely have these experences

Pandya

@Tezz ok. I'm decided to go with Yoga-Dhyana with Upanishada Preaching. (Combination). Btw, Upanishads are our favourite, we can't forget it's preaching for just a moment!

Rakesh Joshi

i m initiated into yoga (with some tantric injunctions )

The Destroyer

@Pandya I think some Vedantins reject Yoga because of Philosophical differences but Practically Yoga is best.

Tezz

16:28

@RakeshJoshi Oh... I think you know about Shaktipaata ... do you?...

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi who initiated you?

Rakesh Joshi

again shaktipaata is also ESSENTIAL part of GENUINE INITIATION irrespective of religion or cult

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi did you receive Shaktipaata initiation?..

Rakesh Joshi

my guru was not famous in public . he used to live in Kerela . His name Sri Yogi Mohan. 2015 august he left his physical body\

yes if there is no shaktipaat then there is no actual initiation itself.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi There are many charlatans in India who say they do Shaktipata but nothing happens. fraudsters are increasing.

@RakeshJoshi ok.

Pandya

16:31

@TheDestroyer Yes, @KeshavSrinivasan has raised that Yoga Darshana is rejected in Brahma Sutra. That's why I was little confused but I think we can use Yoga in the approach of Parama Satya with basing Upanishadic Preaching - Clear /cc @Tezz

Tezz

@Pandya @TheDestroyer Yoga says Dhyana ia necessary.. Vedanta says knowledge of Brahman is necessary.. now If I do Dhyana on Vedantic teachings (like Mahavakyas and soon)... then we do both: Yoga and Vedanta...

2

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi What is your experience of Shaktipaata?

Pandya

@Tezz Absolutely Right!

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi Isn't Shaktipaata instant enlightenment... ?..

Rakesh Joshi

at present if you want to try then best is mahayoga (siddhayoga) of maharastra

they do distant initiation also (i havent taken but heard its genuine)

Kaka maharaj was of that lineage and quite famous he was for this but he left body recenrly

there is nothing called as "instant enlightenment" if shaktipaat is enough then what is the need of sadhana? this word will hold no meaning then.

The Destroyer

16:33

@Tezz What made Vedantins to reject Yoga? I only know philosophy of Kundalini Yoga. They also feel world as real and more Shiva oriented. What's exact philosphical difference?

Pandya

Star this; it's Tezananda's Preaching!

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi can one feel movement of energy on chakras like Muladhara etc.. during Shaktipata ?...

Rakesh Joshi

Yes I also hold the view that world is REAL and not ILLUSION. as opposed to vedanta

moreover vedas do not call world as unreal.

Tezz

Haha lol.. @Pandya

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi See Kala Suktha of Atharva VEda.

Rakesh Joshi

16:35

@Tezz yes there is some sensations of energy which can be felt in physical body also

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi well it depends on intrepretations of Vedas which make one think whether World is real or illusion...

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi So you believe in Kashmiri Shaivism? I'm curious, given that you're a Tamil person how did you come to believe in Kashmiri Shaivism rather than Shaiva Siddhanta?

Rakesh Joshi

@Tezz yes but as such no word as jagat mithya etc in the main veda as far as i know

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Not all Vedanta philosophies call the world an illusion. I believe in Visistadvaita, which says that the world is real.

The Destroyer

@Tezz Kundalini raising should be very gradual for stable results. Unfortunately, it became business.

Pandya

16:37

@Tezz actually I would have similar conclusion before starting discussion but by discussion with you, it get more clear and दृढ! Thanks

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi yes but there are statements like "There is in it no diversity"... "This all is this self"... "World kept in time is seen as many"..

@RakeshJoshi did you personally experienced energy in Chakras during Shaktipata initiation... ?..

Rakesh Joshi

i do believe in kashmir shaivism but that is not the ONLY ideology i believe. i m born and raised in chennai i m naively from gujarat

but regions dont matter to me .. as i belive vasudhaiva kutumbakam

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan He is of Gujarathi origin settled in Tamilnadu.

@RakeshJoshi who is your Ista Deva?

Tezz

@TheDestroyer yes it has become business... if you see in Youtube we can find tons of nonsense videos related to chakras...

Rakesh Joshi

yes i did feel but i can share only up to a certain extent.

Yes Vedas do say "self alone exist" "there is only one reality"

but jagat is not unreal because jagat , me , you all are same part of creation . ( its willing manifestation )

Pandya

16:39

Ok. Continue your discussion and Best of Luck to @RakeshJoshi I think you'll surely get some more information/knowledge here.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer "Isochronic tones for chakra activation" full 3 hrs. 8hrs. etc... Lol...😀😀

Pandya

Good-bye!

Tezz

@Pandya Thank you also... I got opportunity to discuss with you...

The Destroyer

@Tezz Kali Demon is happy. 😀😁

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Oh, what other ideologies do you believe?

Tezz

16:41

@RakeshJoshi well I agree with you.. because Jagat is also real for some level...

Rakesh Joshi

yoga , tantra, some eastern thinkers i do follow like lao tzu
in some matters i do have agreement with osho also ..
also i am inspired by kabeer

also veda (not aadi or anta but veda as it is)

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi haha. I think you have bad opinion on Vedanta.

Rakesh Joshi

yes i do

:)

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi What Upanishads did you read?

Tezz

I think Vedanta means conclusion of Vedas not end of Vedas .... @RakeshJoshi

Rakesh Joshi

16:44

if vedanta is conclusion then what is beginning ?

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Oh, I have quite a bit of familiarity with Lao Tzu and Taoism, having read the works of Raymond Smullyan. In any case, what issues do you disagree with Visistadvaita on?

Pandya

Let me quote one thing before leaving:

अध्यात्मविद्या विद्यानां - BG 10.32

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan wait! He first disagrees with Vedanta. We can ask him Visista Advaita later. :P

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi the beginnings maybe Arthavaadas present in Vedas...

Rakesh Joshi

i m reasonably new to lao tzu.. have started recently

Tezz

16:46

Haha.. lol @TheDestroyer

Rakesh Joshi

Ramanujas talks were far more logical than Sankaras .

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi There was originally a 20-chapter Mimamsa Shastra consisting of the 12 chapters of the Purva Mimamsa Sutras, analyzing the Karma Kanda of the Vedas, the 4 chapters of the Devata Kanda Sutras, analyzing the Devata Kanda of the Vedas, and the 4 chapters of the Brahma Sutras, analyzing the Jnana Kanda of the Vedas. The Devata Kanda Sutras are lost now though.

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Is "World an illusion", illogical for you and main point you disagree with Shankara?

Rakesh Joshi

there is nothing like jnana kanda or karma kanda

it might be a classification as per meemamsakas

for them it will be alright

there are many points i disagree .. if i startt saying then the whole night will not be sufficient :D

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi So there's a progression, first a student studies the Purva Mimamsa Sutras, then he studies the Devata Kanda Sutras, and finally he studies the Brahm sutras. See my post here for details: medium.com/@lugita15/…

Tezz

16:51

@RakeshJoshi haha.. lol..

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Yes, I agree that Ramanuja is more logical. In any case, what do you disagree with in Ramanuja's views?

Rakesh Joshi

not many fellacy in logic of ramanuja

but anyhow there is a need of taking vedas as a whole

there has been only "fighting" and "word wars" in the name of vedanta so far

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Then you shouldn't blame Vedanta. You should blame Vedantists.

Rakesh Joshi

technically you can also start a new school of vedanta if you have logic and well versed in sanskrit

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi haha.. true!..

Rakesh Joshi

16:54

not joking really ...

u have to just comment on some upanishad, geeta and BS

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi But Guru Parampara is also important, though nowadays 21st century people are not considering it.

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi yes, I am also saying it's true... people can come up with new Darshans like Ardha Advaita... Ardha Vishistadvaita... etc.. etc...

@TheDestroyer to start new school one can get initiations even in dreams.. 😀😀 so Guruparampara is also fulfilled...

Rakesh Joshi

some xyz name you say ... whats big deal in claiming guru parampara ?

say some acharya (gaudapada) was born in dwapara yuga and was alive until now and youmet him in himalayas he initiated you and went back to samadhi

when someone can claim that his guru from previous yuga came and initiated him then everything is possible in VEDANTA :)

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi do you worship anyone or only give importance to Yoga?

Rakesh Joshi

i m deovtee of shakti

The Destroyer

17:01

@RakeshJoshi ok. Me too. Shiva Shakti combined.

Rakesh Joshi

@KeshavSrinivasan if you think ramanuja was more logical then what point of justifying sankara?

yo vedAdau svaraH prokto vedAnte cha pratiShThitaH |
tasya prakRRiti-lInasya yaH parassa maheshvaraH ||

means what is there is the vedas is also established in vedanta. . there is no diffrences or classifications .

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi Keshava doesn't justifies Shankara... he is a Sri Vaishnava (follower of Ramanujacharya)...

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi I don't justify Adi Shankara. I completely disagree with him. I'm a follower of Ramanuja, i.e. a Sri Vaishnava,.

@Tezz Haha, we said it at the same time.

Rakesh Joshi

some places i saw you are saying about interpolations against sankara

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan haha...

Rakesh Joshi

17:05

in that sri vaishnava allo there is controversy ... Y shape tilak and U shaped :P

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Yes, I think the Garuda Purana's description of Adi Shankaracharya as a rebirth of Manimat is an interpolation. But I still completely disagree with him.

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi I think that verse means "He who transcends the Vedas and established in Vedanta and he who takes Prakirti in the end time is Maheswara"...

Rakesh Joshi

padma puran says that a brahmin will be born in the era of kali with name sankara and will pollute entire sanatana dharma

Tezz

@@RakeshJoshi but obviously we will have different intrepretations...

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Is Yoga free of controversy and war of words? (Just asking as i don't have much knowledge about Yoga School of thought).

Rakesh Joshi

17:06

transcend vedas ?means beyond jnana ?

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Yes, that is the difference between Thenkalais and Vadakalais, which I discuss here:

11

A: What is the difference between Thenkalai and Vadakalai sects of Sri Vaishnavism?

First of all, these aren't the two main sub-sects of Vaishnavism, they are the two main sub-sects of Sri Vaishnavism. There are other Vaishnava Sampradayas, like the Gaudiya Vaishnava sect that ISKCON adheres to. What distinguishes Sri Vaishnavas from other kinds of Vaishnavas are mainly two th...

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi That chapter is interpolation. It's in Uttara Khanda of Padma Purana. Uttara Khanda of Padma Purana is of Spurious authencity. But SHankara is Shiva as said by other Puranas such as Kurma Purana.

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi here is how is it translated by Swami Vimalananda:

XII-17: He is the Supreme Lord who transcends the syllable Om which
is uttered at the commencement of the recital of the Vedas, which is
well established in the Upanishads and which is dissolved in the primal
cause during contemplation.

@RakeshJoshi another translation can be
"Lord Maheswara is the one who is spoken by Vedas and who is established in Vedantas. He is the one who dissolves the Prakirti unto him finally."

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi We can even interpret Shankara from vedas. In Rudra Namakam and Chamakam, "Vyuptakesha" can be interpreted as Shankara.

@Tezz what scripture is this?

Rakesh Joshi

yes this is what i m saying

Om is the beginning of Veda and Om is the vedanta .. so do not mix with some philosophies and keep it simple

Tezz

17:12

@TheDestroyer it is Taittariya Aranyaka...

Rakesh Joshi

2 puranas say he is demon
2-3 say he is god

but all the later people after him said he is crypto buddhist ( which i agree)

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi what do you think of Buddhist philosophy / Buddhism ?...

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Why do you think Vedantins don't read other part of Vedas? You need to know history to understand why two puranas said him as Demon.

Rakesh Joshi

buddhist theory you can read in mandukya karika and brahma sutra bhashya (sugar coated version) :)

its not that they dont read

but they say this is upasana kandam this is jnana kandam

they just follow 1 specific section
why all this ?

I am not much learned about U and Y shape but i like U shape more .. vedanta desikan

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi Buddhism = No self, No Brahman ....
Advaita = Everything is self, Everything is Brahman... 😀😀

The Destroyer

17:16

@RakeshJoshi Even Yoga follows only 1 specific section. Even Mimaskas. Everyone does that not only Vedantins.

Rakesh Joshi

yoga dont denounce vedas

The Destroyer

neither vedantins.

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Yes, I also agree that Adi Shankara's Advaita is crypto-Buddhism. That is very evident from the Mandukya Karika, which uses a lot of Buddhist terminology.

Rakesh Joshi

then what more discussion you people want ?

it will be better for those who like adi sankara vedanta to get converted into buddhist monk and officially study it

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Also consider historical situations at time of Shankara. Where else can he find logic to defeat 72 different non vedic faiths and unite all vedic faiths?

Rakesh Joshi

17:19

@Tezz but when sankara says everything = creation = doest exist in reality he indirectly says everythig = nothing

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan What is crypto Buddhist?

@RakeshJoshi He doesn't say that actually.

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi Om is everything is already told in Mandukya Upanishad "1. All this is the letter Om. A vivid explanation of this (is begun). All
that is past, present, and future is but Om. Whatever transcends the
three periods of time, too, is Om." But still in the Vyavaharika level these differentiations arise...

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi You should understand with context. Don't say without context.

Rakesh Joshi

what is mean by brahma satya , jagat mithya?

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi The difference between U shape and Y shape is that Vadakalais use a U because they think it represents Vishnu's right foot, whereas Thenkalais use a Y because they think it represent both of Vishnu's feet sitting on a footstool.

The Destroyer

17:21

@RakeshJoshi Only at Absolute level (which is true offcourse).

Rakesh Joshi

these so called levels are sankaras creatuons

does any veda or upanishad mention

vyavaharika satta
paramarthika sattha etc?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Do all statements of Vedas can be understood logically at one level?

Rakesh Joshi

these levels have been created to delude people

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi Brahman Satyam Jagan Mithya means "The phenomenal world is illusion and it is Brahman which is inside the world which is true"... one should understand "Sarva Khalvidam Brahman" before one says it.. apparently they seem contradictory...

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi At one point, Vedas say Narayana is Supreme and at one point they say Rudra is Supreme and at one point they say Indra is Supreme.

How do you explain them?

Keshav Srinivasan

17:23

@TheDestroyer Cryptobuddhism means "secret Buddhism", i.e. a philosophy which on the surface seems to be one thing but in reality is a disguised form of Buddhism.

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi Vedas Upanishads directly do not mention it .. but we can find concepts indirectly in the Vedas...

Rakesh Joshi

if sankara is talking of phenomenonal world .

then all the acharyas after him were dumb they did not understand it ?

@TheDestroyer ekam sat vipraah bahudhaa vadanti

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi Shankara cites numerous scriprures to prove his point... saying that previous sages before him also told the same.... for eg. He cites statement of Krishna from Vishnu purana as:

अविद्यामोहितात्मानः पुरुषा भिन्नदर्शिन ।।

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Shakara even says the same. Everything is one (but at absolute level or in reality).

@Tezz good statement.

Tezz

"He who sees difference is the Purusha deluded by Avidya".. @RakeshJoshi

Rakesh Joshi

17:27

then we are also quoting scriptuires ... everyone after him who refuted him also has quoted scriptiures

explain me about the birth of gaudapada and how come he is linked with this parampara

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi they are quoting which are from Vyavahara level.. and it's also avaliable in scripture...

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi See logic too.

@RakeshJoshi Yes. How can we apply Vyavahara level to Paramarthika level?

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi very less information is avaliable about Gaudapada.. so we can't say anything with certanity...

Rakesh Joshi

how is it possible that his guru was living since the previous yuga ?
what logic can you give?

how many thousand or lakh years he did ?

what was his role ?

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi which Guru..? are you saying about Suka?..

Rakesh Joshi

17:31

why no scripture has talked of him? if he was a pupil of Gauda

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Do you believe changing things as real? Seasons come and go. Our body changes and perishes. Do you consider all these changing entities as real?

Rakesh Joshi

everything is real .. change is not making you unreal

i m talking of gaudapada and shuka both

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi if they are real, why aren't they eternal?

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi why should scripture talk if one is pupil of Gaudapada..?

Rakesh Joshi

when 3 puranas talk sankara as god

not even 1 scripture talk of shuka devas student ?

Tezz

17:34

@RakeshJoshi first of all it is possible that one can live 1000s of years.. eg Jamvabanta... also Sukas father Vyasa is also living... however Shuka had already attained Moksha long ago in the Mahabharata...

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Not three as per Kanchi Kamakoti. Kurma Purana, Markandeya Purana, Aditya Purana, Shiva Purana and Linga Purana.

kamakotimandali.com/advaita/avatarita.html

Rakesh Joshi

so gaudapada lived from dwapara till 1000 AD ?

The Destroyer

All of them Say, Shankara is Shiva.

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi So, I can't reconcile meeting of Shuka and Gaudapada as Suka had already attained moksha...

Rakesh Joshi

then how you claim guru parampara from shuka if gauda never had met shuka?

Tezz

17:35

@RakeshJoshi I don't know whether Gaudapada lived in Dwapara or not..

Rakesh Joshi

see if shuka was the guru of gauda then they should have met right ?\

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi one way is Adi Shankara is Sakshat Shiva... and Shiva himself is Adi Guru...

Rakesh Joshi

vedantin say that shuka met gauda in during dwapara

more than us . the acharyas who came after him have researched his works

and criticized and abused him heavily

@KeshavSrinivasan and others please see gosai.com/writings/…

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Are you Mandana Mishra reincarnation? :P

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Yes, I agree with that link.

Tezz

17:38

@RakeshJoshi Madhaviya Shankara Digvijaya talks of Meeting with Gaudapada as:

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A: Was Gaudapada a guru or grand-guru of Adi Shankarachrya?

Adi Shankara told Nirvana Shatakam on being questioned by Govindapada. Here is what Madhaviya Shankara Digvijaya tells: Meeting with Govindapada and accepting Sanyasa (89-96) Travelling a long distance, that young Sannyasin; with staff in hand and wearing new Kashaya dress, arrived at the...

Rakesh Joshi

oh keshaw .. instant agreement :P

some positively is still remainign in you

gauda was grand guru .. but they claim him as disciple of shuka that is my question

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Haha

@RakeshJoshi By the way, tell me this: do you believe that the supreme being is both the efficient cause and the material cause of the Universe?

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi He follows Visista Advaita. Obviously he disagrees with Shankara and agrees with anything that critizes Advaita.

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi personally I'm skeptical that Gaudapada met Suka as Suka had already attained moksha... however I see two possibilities 1) Suka manifested to teach Gaudapada as he had entered the whole creation and became self of all...

2) That Suka is actually Chhaya Suka of Vyasa which always remains around Vyasa (although I'm not sure whether Chhaya Suka can speak or is just illusion)...

Rakesh Joshi

then this is the only problem i have with vedanta... how can they claim false lineage?

had shuka initiated gaudapada then somewhere it would be mentiooned at least one line

Keshav Srinivasan

17:43

@TheDestroyer Haha, I don't agree with everything that criticizes Adi Shankaracharya. Like I think the Manimat thing is utterly ridiculous.

Rakesh Joshi

like this i can also claim that shuka manifested and initiated me ..

everything which criticize sankara is truth

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi No doubt. you are Mandana Mishra reincarnation :P :P

Rakesh Joshi

its all false stories .. not worth believing

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi if that line was mentioned then it would be considered interpolation... so Vyasa might not have bothered to write it... 😀😀

Rakesh Joshi

? i ddint understand how interpolation ?

The Destroyer

17:45

@KeshavSrinivasan Adviata not Shankara.

Rakesh Joshi

there is aq lot of mention of shuka in many puranas why cant vyasa write about his son

The Destroyer

@RakeshJoshi Devi Bhagavatam has info about his son. What exactly do you want?

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi "everything which criticize sankara is truth" haha lol... maybe you can call it Neti Neti...

The Destroyer

But Devibhagavatam belongs to different kalpa not Sweta Varaha Kalpa.

Tezz

@RakeshJoshi anyway.. you are pronouncing the name "Shankara" to criticize him... and also meditating upon the Mahavakya "everything which criticize sankara is truth" and you are earning merit... (just as Ajamila earned merit by pronouncing 'Narayana' which was his son's name).....

Rakesh Joshi

17:57

ha ha yes merit

i think masny memers left

Tezz

masny memers ? @RakeshJoshi

Rakesh Joshi

many *

in this room

Tezz

Oh yes..

Rakesh Joshi

hmm

what els

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi Can you answer the question I asked above: Do you believe that the supreme being is both the efficient cause and the material cause of the Universe?

Rakesh Joshi

18:08

what is different between both

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi The efficient cause of an event is what causes an event to occur. The material cause of an object is the material the object is made of.

@RakeshJoshi So for instance, the efficient cause of a clay pot is the potter who shapes it, and the material cause of the clay pot is the clay it's made of.

@RakeshJoshi So the question is, do you believe that the supreme being is just the one who runs the Universe, or do you think that the supreme being is also the substance that makes up the Universe?

Rakesh Joshi

everything ... both

Rakesh Joshi

18:31

why

Rakesh Joshi

18:48

hello @SwiftPushkar

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi OK, both is what I also believe.

@RakeshJoshi Now can you answer me this: do you believe that the supreme being dwells within your soul, or do you believe that the supreme being is your soul, or do you think that the supreme being and your soul are completely separate?

Rakesh Joshi

soul is supreme being

where r u swift

Keshav Srinivasan

@RakeshJoshi OK, so you and I disagree on that. I think the supreme being is the Antaryami or inner self of your soul, I don't think they're the same.

Rakesh Joshi

means soul has one more substance inside it ?

Vengayam

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