Vedanta and Philosophy

Keshav Srinivasan

01:57

@Tezz I just found an interesting passage in the Shiva Jnana Siddhiyar's refutation of the Charvaka school. One of the arguments Arulnandi Sivacharya makes to show that Pratyaksha is not the only valid Pramana is that information given in Hindu scripture can be verified. He says that predictions made by astrologers and astronomers are later proven correct, and also people successfully find buried treasure using Hindu scripture:

@Tezz I'm not sure what scriptures discuss how to find buried treasure.

Tezz

02:10

@KeshavSrinivasan In the Mahabharata Yudhisthira brings these type of treasures.. by doing certain worship... (from forest I think)...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Oh, do you know what chapter that's in?

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan I'm not sure.. you may check those chapters before Yudhisthira performs Aswamedha Yajna...

He uses those treasures in Ashwamedha Yajna....

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz By the way, it seems that the Shaiva Siddhanta sect really hated Vamachara practices. Arulnandi Sivacharya makes the Charvaka Purvapakshin say that Vamachara people are his friends, because they pursue murder and robbery and consorting with women just like he does:

Tezz

02:25

@KeshavSrinivasan haha... interesting...😀😀

Sree Charan

02:36

@KeshavSrinivasan He is taking on Charvaka sectarians. 1st verse was like a gunshot.

Tezz

@SreeCharan haha...

Sree Charan

2 days ago, by Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan haha lol... Shiva is the name of Vishnu in Vishnu Sahasranaama...

@Tezz ^^^ Not only shiva, there are names like shambhu, rudra, sharabha, sharva.

Tezz

03:08

@SreeCharan yes I know... and the Shiva Sahasranaama also contains name like Vishnu, Hari, Narayana etc... actually these all are attributes of God...

Tezz

06:32

@SreeCharan :

See MB 12.348. p185 and 186. — Sree Charan 2 hours ago

What's there... ?..

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz I just found a really strange statement in the Shivajnana Siddhiyar's refutation of Sautrantika Buddhism. Arulnandi Shivacharya says that if the Buddhist says that intercourse is the cause of the body, that cannot be correct because we observe that there are toads that are inside rocks, and there are worms inside trees, and so they cannot have been produced by intercourse:

Sree Charan

@Tezz In the answer you said, Samkhya school of philosophy is non-theist school. But in the chapter I quoted, I found these statements. What is the meaning of it? @KeshavSrinivasan

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz It reminds me of Adi Shankaracharya's claim that there are female cranes who get pregnant without the participation of males, and Shabara's claim that there are cats and dogs that fast on the 8th day of every month, haha

Sree Charan

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan yes I also remembered the same...

Sree Charan

06:46

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan haha... you are finding interesting quotes in that book...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Haha yeah, it seems that ancient Indians had very different experiences than we do. I don't know how they could have found toads in the center of a solid rock.

Tezz

@SreeCharan Samkhya Darshan doesn't have eternal God.. It only has Prakirti and Purusha...

@KeshavSrinivasan haha...

@KeshavSrinivasan " if the Buddhist says that intercourse is the cause of the body," I don't think Buddhism says this... There are many realms also where being live without name and form also...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Well, if a being lives without name and form then it doesn't have a body. The question is what is the cause of the bodies that do exist.

@Tezz Arulnandi Shivacharya is make that all the explanations that Buddhists propose for what is the cause of the creation of the body are incorrect.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan in any case.. body can be made through miracles also in Buddhism..

Keshav Srinivasan

06:54

@Tezz Haha, so maybe toads were magically produced in the center of solid rocks.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan haha...

@KeshavSrinivasan I have quoted a lot of Buddhist Sutras in my answer there... I'm not sure whether I can do it or not...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Do what?

@Tezz I just found a science journal paper written in 1834 discussing claims of toads being found in solid rocks: books.google.com/…

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan quote Buddhist Sutras.. I'm talking of my answer here: hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/16615/…

@KeshavSrinivasan were those toads living?..

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Yes, you are certainly allowed to quote Buddhist Sutras.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan Ok...!!

Keshav Srinivasan

07:11

@Tezz Yes, they were alive. In fact in one case some quarrymen who found a toad after breaking a block of solid rock kept the toad as a pet, it lived for 11 months, and then after it died they preserved the toad's body to commemorate the miracle.

@Tezz The quarrymen thought no one would believe them, so they swore a legally binding oath promising that they really saw it, haha

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan haha.. interesting...

Sree Charan

@KeshavSrinivasan Are they really alive? How?

Keshav Srinivasan

@SreeCharan Haha, I'm not sure. This was an article written in 1834.

Sree Charan

@KeshavSrinivasan I am skeptical about that. BTW, I answered the question about Venkateshwara called Balaji.

Keshav Srinivasan

@SreeCharan In any case apparently ancient Indians were familiar with this phenomenon, and Arulnandi Shivacharya uses this as evidence that bodies are not ultimately caused by intercourse, since a toad found in solid rock cannot have been produced by intercourse.

Tezz

07:19

@SreeCharan yes, I saw it... nice answer!...

Sree Charan

@Tezz Thanks.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - Wht is the story behind name "Kartikeya " , what is mean by the name , is it related to kartik massa

Sree Charan

@SwiftPushkar When Kartikeya was born, He was fed by 6 maidens called Krittikas. Devatas promised them that kumara swami will be called as Kartikeya after them. Kartika masa is named because the moon is in the star Kruttika on the full moon day. Kartikeya uses his 6 heads to drink milk from those 6. Hence the name Shanmukha. Parvati and Ganga and any other devata didn't feed him.

Tezz

Yes, Krittika Nakshatra signifies Kartika month:

3

A: The story behind Names of Hindu calender Months?

These 12 months are derived from the name of nakshtras. As I discuss in my answer here, the names of nakshtras are itself stated in Atharva Veda. In a particular month there is high probability of occurring full moon in particular nakshtra. Of course it may not occur exactly but it occurs near. ...

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - ok :) just curious abt. the name , like ganapati = lord of ganas etc. do you know where this story is ?

Sree Charan

07:39

@SwiftPushkar In Skanda purana chapter 27. But a bit different. These krittikas were cursed by their husbands due to deviation from chastity. They formed constellation Krittika.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - oh , ok , i heard the word krittikas but dont know much abt. them , is this similar to sapta matrikas ..

Sree Charan

@SwiftPushkar I think sapta matrikas is different from Krittikas. I don't know much about saptamatrikas but I have seen them. Krittikas are related to sages later turned to constellations.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - ok , हाँ कृत्तिका नक्षत्र है , सही बात कही , धन्यवाद् , मुझे पता नही क्यूँ , लेकिन महाराष्ट्र में गणपति जादा पूजा जाता है , इसके लिए यहाँ लोगों को कार्तिकेय के बारे में जादा पता नहीं है. इसके इए , आप से पुछा, BLOGS में अलग अलग लिखा होता है , तो कोनसी स्टोरी सही है ते पता नहीं चल पाता. :)

Sree Charan

07:56

@SwiftPushkar Don't use आप please. Because, at a point of time, Kartikeya left kailasa and reached Tamilnadu. So His worship is more in southern states. Yes you couldn't trust blogs.

@SwiftPushkar मैं ने इसलिए "आप" का इस्तेमाल किया क्योंकि आप मुझसे बड़े होंगे. अगर आप नहीं ऐसा नहीं चाहते तो मैं ऐसा बुलाना बंद करूंगा| भाई बुलाता हूँ |

SwiftPushkar

08:10

@SreeCharan - अरे नहीं मुझे कोई भी शब्द से कोई एतराज नहीं है , मै सिर्फ "आप" बुला रहा था क्योंकी हम, एक रिलीजियस फोरम में चाट कर रहें है , सो हमें एक दुसरे को आदर से बुलाना चाहिए. By the way मै तुमको हमारे यहाँ की एक वैष्णव वारकरी परंपरा बताता हूँ - जब भी दो वैष्णव यात्रा या वारी में मिलते हैं , तो वो वो दोनों एक दुसरे को "माउली" कहेके , एक दुसरे के पाँव छुते है , उसमे से एक यक्ति अगर छोटा हो तो भी.

बड़ा वालायक्ति उसके पाँव पड़ता है,

And I like this tradition very well :)

Sree Charan

@SwiftPushkar We also have this tradition. A sri Vaishnav calls other Sri vaishnav "Adiyen" means I am your servant. Then go ahead. I have no objection.

@SwiftPushkar By your chitrahuti question, I assume you are a brahmin. Are you? Which sakha?

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - ok , so I think most traditions are common or the same , only we are not aware abt. those similarities btw. diff. regions or panthas,

@SreeCharan - Shukla Yajurveda , Maadhyandin shakha

@SreeCharan - Do you know anything abt. that question ?

Sree Charan

@SwiftPushkar I bumped it to the top. Here we do parishachana . But I don't know the exact reason.

SwiftPushkar

08:26

@SreeCharan - what is the meaning - parishachana ?परिशाचना is this correct

Sree Charan

@SwiftPushkar We sprinkle water around our plate. It is said that we should not waste the food which is served in our leaf/plate. Shouldn't interrupt the meal. AFAIK To complete.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - i have some books which describes this procedure and the mantras , the name of the book is "Daily Vaidik Rituals " But dont know we can give answer based on that book or not , and the book is in Marathi language also? so i know the answer , will post that later on

Sree Charan

परिश्शाचन in sanskrit. or auposana(alternate name).

@SwiftPushkar I think you can.

Post the answer if you have the reason. Others will quote from scriptures based on that.

Will be back in 15 min. Have some work.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - ok , we also sprinkle water 3 times , but have not mentioned that , because of one modern argument that the water sprinkling is Associated with , keeping away the insects and bugs , ants etc. so just written the food part .

SwiftPushkar

08:54

@SreeCharan - I dont know you have seen this question or not , but since you are from shree vaishnava tradition , i think you will find it Interesting.

4

Q: What are the 32 auspicious traits of Narayana or Lord Vishnu?

Shree Narayana is the Vedic Supreme God according to Vedas, Itihasas, Bhagavata Purana and Other Puranas (including his different avatars ) in Hinduism. He is also known as Vishnu and Hari and is venerated as Purushottama. See More While reading more about him , I came to know that Shree Na...

Sree Charan

09:05

@SwiftPushkar Good find. This is similar to the characteristics of Sri Rama explained by Hanuma to Sita in Sundarakanda. In the characteristics, 16, 31,32 have typos. Fix them. Who is asking to tell the attributes of the lord?

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - We can a pole in front of all south indian temples , whats that is called , whts the purpose , here you can find a stone structure called "deepmala" for lamps. Yes Thanks , just found that while searching for an answer from GP :) ok will fix typos

@SreeCharan - Many thanks , spelling mistakes corrected :)

@SreeCharan - Garuda is asking and Shree Krishna is explaining these traits to him.

Sree Charan

@SwiftPushkar Deepmala is not a part of temple. Many temples don't have it. It is built for devotees convenience to light lamps. Some temples are provided with a metal stand. Dhwaja sthambha (flag pole) is there in most of the temples. (But there are some temples without dhwaja sthambha)

@SwiftPushkar OK.

SwiftPushkar

09:22

@SreeCharan - oh , so that is dhwaja sthambha , ok , :) here that is generally placed at the top of the dome of temple

@SreeCharan - you got a new answer ..

Sree Charan

@SwiftPushkar Deepmala and dhwajasthambha are different.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - yes , know that :)

SwiftPushkar

10:17

@SreeCharan - what i think is here ---> vedabase.com/en/sb/10/64/3 shreemad bhagvatam is talking about Chameleon lizards , whose body is curved as a mountains and are green , so the shape is resembling to mountains ...

SwiftPushkar

10:36

*hill

sakthi

10:58

@SwiftPushkar i need an answer how to find my varna

SwiftPushkar

11:11

@sakthi - I can't answer your this question , you have ask your relatives , or see your "Janmapatrika" or Kundali . But the answer is given in Shreemad bhagvatam How to identify ones varna , according to habits or karma or behaviour

sakthi

@SwiftPushkar my relatives are not educated they have only short history we are allowed inside all temples and many of our temples we show deepa to god but how to identify a sudra

SwiftPushkar

@sakthi - see the shloka SB 7.11.35 vedabase.com/en/sb/7/11/35

@sakthi - No I have no idea about this

@sakthi - have you got the meaning of the shloka ? ie. varnashrma system is flexible . one can go up or down.

sakthi

11:31

@SwiftPushkar so if a sudra has bramanic qualities can he read veda

Tezz

@sakthi anyone can surely read English translation....

sakthi

@SwiftPushkar ANYONE means without qualty or with quality

@Tezz can sudras read bhagavat gita and other gitas

Tezz

@sakthi anyone means everyone... as reading in English doesn't generate Vibrations as it does while reciting in Sanskrit...

sakthi

@Tezz do you have any scriptures assuring it ?

Tezz

@sakthi I think Smritis and Itihasa can be read by Sudras also...

And Bhagvad Gita is inside Itihasa...

sakthi

11:39

@Tezz what is the vibration caused of differnce in english reading and sanksrit reading i am not aware of it?

Tezz

@sakthi actually Sanskrit letters are called Akshara.. which means imperishable.. so they bear certain vibration... so when you pronounce Om.. or Shiva or Vishnu or anything... vibration of specific combinations are generated...

2

As Sanskrit letters are imperishable.. actually they come from Damaru Of Shiva... and body of SadaShiva is also made up of letters...

And is called Shabda Brahman..

sakthi

@Tezz what is the relation between vibration and varna or quality of a man

Tezz

But English is not such language..

@sakthi I think the vibrations of Vedas may cause effect in people having low quality/ Sudra Guna... or it may be due to the fact that Sudra Guna people might misinterpret Vedic verses..

@sakthi also a Sudra can become a Brahmin through Austerities... see my answer here:

7

A: Can a Sudra become a Brahmin in 'this' birth?

Yes, it is possible through the power of Panchakshari Mantra. As already discussed in question Mantras can have wonderful powers. Similarly through the power of Panchakshara Mantra even a Shudra can become a Brahmana in this very birth. Panchakshara Mantra is "Namaha Shivaya" or "Om Namaha Shivaya"

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz- Nice explanation 😊👍 chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/34538570#34538570

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar 😀😀✔✔

SwiftPushkar

11:47

i still don't know how to give replay to someone's previous message , pls.do tell me how to😀

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar I don't know.. as I'm using from mobile..

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - ok , you got a STAR frm. me

ok all see u after sometime , signing out for now ....

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar haha.. nice!... ok .. bye ...😀😀

Sree Charan

16:54

@SwiftPushkar Hello again.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - Yes , 😊👍👍

Sree Charan

When you hover on some one's message, to the right most part beside star, there is an arrow. Click that the message will be automatically replied even if you don't type the name.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - I have found out the source of ChitraHuti question , that book says , it's in Shukla Yajurveda , BhojanPrayoga , The mantras are in book , only i will need a link now😀

Sree Charan

@SwiftPushkar Oh that's great. I am waiting for the answer. May be tomorrow will also be fine.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - Yes , now i am writing those sanskrit mantras and description , i am having shukla yajurveda pdf. just need to find those mantras in pdf.

Sree Charan

17:06

@SwiftPushkar You can post by taking photographs too. Later you can convert them into pdf or ocr.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - BTW.which is your shakha?

Sree Charan

@SwiftPushkar Now do you know how to reply to previous message? Shukla Yajur Veda, Apasthambha sutra.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - yes 👍👍,

Sree Charan

@SwiftPushkar We belong to the same shakha.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - I am finding more about one interesting claim abt.Madhyandin Shakha , that , people from this Shakha are not brahmins at 12 o clock AM &PM. do you heard abt.such a thing.

Sree Charan

17:16

@SwiftPushkar I know my veda shakha upto Shukla yajur veda only. I don't know about Madyandin shakha. Is it again sub branch?

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - there are two branches 1) Madhayandin & 2)Kanva , you must be from these 2 , Apashambha is not a branch i think.

@SreeCharan - there are two branches 1) Madhayandin & 2)Kanva , you must be from these 2 , Apashambha is not a branch i think.May be you are from krishna yajurveda , apasthabha shakha

@SreeCharan - Sorry , the connection

Sree Charan

@SwiftPushkar Apasthambha is a grihya sutra. We say pravara while doing abhivadam. We say our pravara rushis, gotra, sutra shakha,

No problem.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - my gotra is Gautama , Kanva branch is mostly found in MH only & in some parts of Karnataka

Sree Charan

Here is my pravara Vasishta, Maitravarana, Kaundinyas thrayarsheya pravaraanvitha Kaundinyasa gotrah Apasthambha sutrah Yajushhakhajyayee Sree Charan sharmanah ahambho abhivadaye.

SwiftPushkar

Gautam Gotra utpanna , angaris , avatathya , gautameti pravarnvita , pushkar sharmana ..😀 i know uptil this only , & see my profile for rest Location etc.

@SreeCharan - I don't know which sutras we follow , may be yagnavalkya smiriti

@SreeCharan - ok , it's really nice to talk with you , U know much more than me 😀👍👍.I am just a new commer in all this .Bye GN , TC , 👍👍💐🌛😴

Sree Charan

17:40

@SwiftPushkar Good night. TC. :) You must be kidding. I don't know much. Still learning.

SwiftPushkar

@SreeCharan - No i am not kidding , i also just started 😊👍👍 but IMO you know more than me ..

Sree Charan

18:25

@TheDestroyer Yama, Bheema, nakula sahadeva etc., cannot be considered as avatars. They are humans born by the grace of the respective deities.

The Destroyer

@SreeCharan Avatar is someone who descended. So, they can be considered as avatars of those divine beings. Generally, Devas do take Avatars to help Vishnu.

Sree Charan

People like yudhishtira, nakula, karna etc., are not avatars. They have an amsha of the respected deities. but this is different in case of Arjuna(nara), Bhishma(Vasu).

The Destroyer

Amsa Avatar.

Sree Charan

@TheDestroyer Let us continue tomorrow. I need some more clarity on amsa avatar and currently disagree with you. :/ ;)

The Destroyer

@SreeCharan ok.

Sree Charan

18:37

Good night. Sleep well. stay Healthy.

The Destroyer

Good Night.

Keshav Srinivasan

23:47

@SreeCharan The Apastamba Grihya Sutras are associated with the Apastamba Shakha of the Krishna Yajur Veda. So if you say Apastamba Sutraha during Sandhyavandhanam then you must belong to Krishna Yajur Veda, not Shukla Yajur Veda.

Transcript for

Vedanta and Philosophy