Vedanta and Philosophy

Pandya

04:47

@KeshavSrinivasan @Tezz what would be your view/answer on this

@KeshavSrinivasan @Tezz @TheDestroyer @AnkitSharma Should we close How to Read Hindu Scriptuires as duplicate of Start reading Hindu Vedas and/or How to start reading Bhagavad Gita?? In other words, How to handle these?

The Destroyer

@Pandya i think they are partial duplicates but not sure how to handle these question.

@ChinmaySarupria if you encounter any "Bavji", then ask them where is "Pitru Loka"? :P :)

Pandya

Btw, found one useful book "The divine messages of Veda" (Language-English):

Part 2 - pdf

Part 3 - pdf

Part 4 - pdf

May useful for users.

@TheDestroyer Resource : some useful books from Gayatri Parivar site: literature.awgp.org/english/book

Also check out some small books for your language : literature.awgp.org/language1

In brief ; Resource : Literature from Gayatri Parivar : Books, Magazines & Articles.

Pandya

05:20

One example : Rigveda Hindi : literature.awgp.org/book/rigveda/v1.1 (only for reading)

Tezz

07:23

@ChinmaySarupria we do not have concepts of Bavji here... but Gods (devatas) do possesses many persons here... for eg. In every persons Family deity worship /Dewali many people are possessed...

@Pandya I'm planning to answer it.... but I do not have enough time to prepare for the answer....

Pandya

09:05

@Tezz Hmm.. I know comprehensive answering requires more time. I've spend much time for preparing this...

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar good dp :) Any special?

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - oh thanks , nothing spicial , this photo is from our home , so just put that as DP :

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar ohh..good pic

SwiftPushkar

Pandya

@TheDestroyer I've recently recognized that the samhitas that vedpuran.net provides are actually copied from literature.awgp.org. For e.g You can get original Samaveda from literature.awgp.org/book/samved/v1 (Read online). (If you've downloaded any Veda from vedpuran.net then let's check).

The Destroyer

09:18

nice pic of Vamana

@Pandya ohh..i didn't know. But i don't use Vedpuran site

Pandya

@TheDestroyer So, do you've any Samhita? (Hard-copy purchased or soft-copy)

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan @Tezz @TheDestroyer @Pandya - this is "Vaman" avatar of shree Vishnu , but why he is holding the umbrella ? Do you know the reason ? Or is there any story associated with umbrella?

The Destroyer

@Pandya I downloaded from Vedic reserve

Pandya

@TheDestroyer only Sanskrit or with Hindi or English translation?

The Destroyer

@Pandya only sanskrit

vedicreserve.mum.edu

Pandya

09:25

@TheDestroyer Hmm.. Then, have you read any Veda-Samhita yet?

The Destroyer

@Pandya No. i actually want to learn them from a knowledgeable person.

@Pandya I'm learning sanskrit now

Pandya

@TheDestroyer good idea!

@TheDestroyer Appreciable. Best of Luck!

The Destroyer

@Pandya Thank you :)

Pandya

@SwiftPushkar no, I don't know any specific about Umbrella symbolism

SwiftPushkar

@Pandya ok, see found this while searching "The Deity of the month of Ashadha is Sri Vamanadeva. " May be thats the reason

bvml.org/SBBTM/vamana.html

Pandya

09:35

@SwiftPushkar Hmm.. by the way you can post a Q/A on site asking/describing the reason/purpose/symbolism of carrying/holding an Umbrella by Vamana.

SwiftPushkar

@Pandya - Yes :)

Chinmay Sarupria

12:42

@Pandya The texts on Vedpurana might have been copied from other site but what is original to vedpuran.net is the user submitted texts. Scroll on that page and you will find tons of other text by people from all over the country.

Keshav Srinivasan

13:43

@SwiftPushkar "this is "Vaman" avatar of shree Vishnu , but why he is holding the umbrella ? Do you know the reason ? Or is there any story associated with umbrella?" The wooden umbrella is part of the traditional garb of a Brahmachari, which is what Vamana is supposed to be.

The Destroyer

16:29

@KeshavSrinivasan He again posted spam

xiguai211

1

mahabharata

Chinmay Sarupria

16:44

@Tezz Who are the gods that possess them? Well I have seen such thing in one Jain temple - Nakoda, Rajasthan, there at the time of every aarti, either 1 or multiple people get possessed. And the one who possesses them is believed to be Bhairav, the deity of the temple. I don't really believe in Gods possessing people because first what they want to do can be done without possessing and second, human body is not a public playground where anyone can come anytime.

@Tezz Gods know that possessing someone is not a good idea so they would never do it. So either its a ghost or someone like Bavji, I strongly believe that devatas could never do it.

Tezz

16:56

@ChinmaySarupria they are possessesd by Kula Devata...

And they do not do any harm to them...

Actually they do not feel pain when they are possessed... They are hit by bells... some even dip hand in boiling oil....

@Pandya yes I had read that answer... It's very informative....

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria For a very minute seconds, chakras get activated (and bad karmas make body to wobble) and due to residual karma, chakras deactivate immediately. So, when chakras are in activated state, Devas talk through us. But many people who do this are Charalatans. Could be ghosts also.

@ChinmaySarupria @Tezz Even in South, Grama Devatas would possess but now a days, such people are frauds

Tezz

@ChinmaySarupria here we celebrate Dewali festival which is worshipping of Kuladevata in a Year... in specific time... only some people are possessed at that time... we call it as "Devata Chadhne"... They shiver and jump uncontrollably... and began to speak without control... They are called Dhami.....

@TheDestroyer Yes Kaliyuga is filled with Fraud peoples...

The Destroyer

@Tezz haha..yeah

Chinmay Sarupria

@Tezz @TheDestroyer Well my point is that devata is a high spiritual being who knows that possession is the worst thing so he won't do it so the one who does it cannot be called devata.

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria No. Grama Devatas do that. But Shiva and Vishnu would come in dreams. But in villages they do possess normal people. Not all people may believe such dreams. So, i think based on temperament, they contact people in different ways.

Chinmay Sarupria

17:11

@TheDestroyer Are grama devatas normal people who lived there before?

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria Most of them are fierce aspects of Shiva and Devi

@ChinmaySarupria They are Sapta Matrikas, amsas of Devi

Tezz

@ChinmaySarupria what I perceive about Devata is Devatas are under Satva Rajas Tamas... (and not like Bhagvan)... so all Devatas can't have Samadrishti... Actually some devatas can also show weird behaviour... like not allowing women... even if we see Devatas like Indra Agni etc... they did bad activities many times....

The Destroyer

or Adi Para Shakti

Matrikas

Matrikas (Matrika singular, Sanskrit: mātṝkā, मातृका "mother"), also called Matara (Sanskrit: mātaraḥ plural, मातरः) and Matri (mātṛ, मातृ singular), is a group of Hindu goddesses who are always depicted together. Since they are usually depicted as a heptad, they are called Saptamatrika(s) (Sanskrit: saptamātṝkāh, सप्तमातृका:, "seven mothers"): Brahmani, Vaishnavi, Maheshvari, Indrani, Kaumari, Varahi, Chamunda and Narasimhi. However, they may sometimes be eight (Ashtamatrika(s): ashtamātṝkāh, अष्टमातृका:, "eight mothers"). Whereas in South India, Saptamatrika worship is prevalent, the Ashtamatrika...

@Tezz What is difference between Bhagavan and Iswara?

Chinmay Sarupria

@TheDestroyer If they are aspects of Shiva and Devi then why doesn't Shiva and Devi stop them from possessing people? Also being an aspect of Shiva, they must be knowledgeable enough to know that possession is not a good idea.

Tezz

@ChinmaySarupria I think Devata is a Yoni which one gets by doing highly Virtuous Karmas... like Manushya Yoni... but it isn't necessary that they will all do good Karma in Deva Yoni... although most of Devatas are good by nature (Prakirti Swabhava)....

Chinmay Sarupria

17:16

@Tezz What I think happens at the time of festival and aartis is that people who are thought to be possessed have actually reached the state of ecstasy and as a result behave abnormally.

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria i think you have some prejudice on possession. This is not bad at all. It's like expanding consciousness temporarily but in weird way. Their health won't get affected.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer some sect regard them as same... while in my View Ishwara is witness of everything either Dharma or Adharma or anything or Paapa or Punya...(like Atman)... while Bhagvan tries to uphold Dharma....

Chinmay Sarupria

@TheDestroyer Well I read somewhere, Complete Works or Swami Sivananda's works that never ever allow anyone to possess your body.

Tezz

@ChinmaySarupria haha... as I don't have Pratakshya Pramana I can't assert anything conclusively... however I have a friend who gets possessed and he says it happens automatically....

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria It's like the same way why Kalabhairava helps tantriks, being aspect of Parameswara.

SwiftPushkar

17:19

@Tezz @TheDestroyer @ChinmaySarupria - 😊🙋 Namaste :)

Chinmay Sarupria

@SwiftPushkar Namaste!

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar 🙏🙏🙏

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar Namaskaram

Chinmay Sarupria

@TheDestroyer Yeah but whatever help Kalabhairava wants to give to tantriks, he is capable enough to do it without doing anything sort of possession.

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria Many Tantriks misuse them... That's the reason many philosphers rejected Vamachara..

SwiftPushkar

17:21

@KeshavSrinivasan - "The wooden umbrella is part of the traditional garb of a Brahmachari, " oh ok , can you pls. give me some more info abt.that tradition as i don't know abt that :) 👍😊💐

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria But still Kalabahirava comes .. when do some procedure and say.. "KalaBhaiarava avahayami"..

SwiftPushkar

Yes all 😊👍

Chinmay Sarupria

@TheDestroyer But he can come in a physical form?

Tezz

@ChinmaySarupria I think most people do not have enough good Karma to get darshan of Kaalabhairava Physically...

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria Not sure but helps them and they misuse his powers. this is more dangerous that possession.

@Tezz @ChinmaySarupria Kala Bhairava is actually good.. but idiots term Him as bad..

Tezz

17:24

@TheDestroyer yes... KaalaBhairava is protector of Kashi...

Chinmay Sarupria

@TheDestroyer He must be good, after all, he is the head of 64 bhairavas and came directly from Maha Bhairava.

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria Who is Maha Bhairava?

Chinmay Sarupria

@TheDestroyer Rudra

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria ohh.. ok.

sanskritdocuments.org/doc_shiva/…

[Rare] Maha Kalbhairav - Yam Yam Yam Yaksha Roopam (lyrics)

►

Sorry Bhairava only

Chinmay Sarupria

@TheDestroyer Yeah it's for Kala Bhairava because first verse does includes "Kshetrapalam"

The Destroyer

17:29

@ChinmaySarupria yes..it says.. Bhairavam Kshetrapalam.. but listen that song..it's very good..

@ChinmaySarupria What scriptures mention more info about Bhairavas?

Tezz

And the last verse clearly says "Kashika Kshetra Paalam" ....

Chinmay Sarupria

@TheDestroyer Even I am interested in knowing more about Bhairava.

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria yeah. me too.

Tezz

Bhairava is considered very important in Nath Sampradaya...

The Destroyer

@Tezz How?

Tezz

17:33

He is one among the main 8 deities... and he comes earlier among those 8 also...

Read that book "Philosophy of Gorakhnath." @TheDestroyer

The Destroyer

@Tezz ohh..ok.

@ChinmaySarupria Where did you read this 64 Bhairavas thing?

Chinmay Sarupria

@TheDestroyer en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhairava

agasthiar.org/AUMzine/0014-kb.htm

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria ok.thanks!

Chinmay Sarupria

@TheDestroyer khandro.net/dakini_the64.htm Also contains Ashta Matrikas

@TheDestroyer forminformation.blogspot.in/2014/08/… Contains name of all bhairavas along with 64 yoginis

The Destroyer

@ChinmaySarupria last one says ganas as bhairavas.

They are shiva ganas. may be called bhairavas also

SwiftPushkar

18:02

Hey all GN Bye , will sleep 🙋😊💐🌛 👍

Keshav Srinivasan

20:15

@Tezz "Bhairava is considered very important in Nath Sampradaya" That's interesting because the Kashmiri Shaivite sect also gives great importance to Bhairava. I think that's because both the Nath Sampradayam and the Kashmiri Shaivite sect trace their origins to the Shakta Agamas, which tend to emphasize Bhairava.

@Tezz I think that also explains why Naths and Kashmiri Shaivites are Advaitins. (Although they don't follow Adi Shankaracharya' philosophy of Advaita Vedanta.) To a first approximation, the Shakta Agamas preach Advaita, the Shaiva Agamas preach Dvaita, and the Pancharatra Agamas preach Visistadvaita.

@Tezz What I mean by that is not that those Agamas agree completely with those Vedantic philosophies (in fact followers of Shaiva and Shakta Agamas often reject the Vedanta school). Rather, what I mean is that those Agamas agree with those philosophies on the question of the relation between Brahman and the world.

@Tezz The Shakta Agamas say that the world is an illusion just as Advaita says, the Shaiva Agamas say that Ishwara and Prakriti are completely separate just as Dvaita says, and the Pancharatra Agamas say that Brahman is the material cause of the Universe just as Visistadvaita says.

Krishn Shweta

21:16

@KeshavSrinivasan Hi.....

10

A: Do we have experts here?

I'm a Sri Vaishnava (an Iyengar to be precise), and I've done extensive reading in the Vedas, Puranas, Ramayana, and Mahabharata, as well as numerous scholarly books on Hinduism.

@KeshavSrinivasan just seen that. So have you read all the 4 vedas?

Transcript for

Vedanta and Philosophy