Vedanta and Philosophy

3:52 AM

@SwiftPushkar i have internet problems during night times..so can't talk here.. i will take new broadband next month and i will join with you guys from next month..

Pandya

@TheDestroyer does internet work fine in day times for you?

The Destroyer

@Pandya Yeah..

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan Are there scriptures that propagate Vishishtadvaita? (let me clear that I don't mean Bhashya or work by Aacharyas, I mean the scripture that propagates the Vishishtadvaita philosophy, like YogVashishta and similar scriptures for Advaita.)

Keshav Srinivasan

4:19 AM

@Pandya Well, first of all I think the Yoga Vasishta was a later creation, not a genuine scripture. Second of all, Sri Vaishnavas believe that Hindu scripture as a whole advocates Visistadvaita.

Pandya

Hmm...

@KeshavSrinivasan Do all Vaishnav belive that Yog Vashishta is not authentic?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya It's not an issue of Vaishnava vs. non-Vaishnava. For one thing, the Yoga Vasishta is not mentioned in any ancient Hindu scriptures.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan Ok; in-spite of it Advaitin support it right? (they should not)

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Yes, Advaitins tend to support it because it supports Advaita, although I'm not sure how the traditional Shankaracharya Mutts feel about it.

@Pandya By the way, if it helps, Sri Vaishnavas believe that there are three kinds of statements in the Upanishads: Bheda Shruiti, Abheda Shruti, and Ghataka Shruti. Bheda Shruti refers to statements that on the surface seem to say that Jivatma and Paramatma are separate. Abheda Shruti refers to statements that on the surface seem to say that Jivatma and Paramatma are the same. And Ghataka Shruti refers to statements that reveal the body-soul relationship between Jivatma and Paramatma.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan yes I know it (I remember we've discussed earlier).

@KeshavSrinivasan by the way how does Vishishtadvaita interpret Mundaka Upanishad 3.2.9 - "He who knows the Supreme Brahman verily becomes Brahman"?

Keshav Srinivasan

4:32 AM

@Pandya I'm not sure, the interpretation may be that a releases soul becomes like Brahman in its attributes.

@Pandya By the way, if you're asking whether there are Hindu scriptures which even secular scholars would say unequivocally supports Visistadvaita, the Pancharatra Agamas and the poems of the Alwars are two prominent examples.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan Thanks for providing it; I know bit about Pancharatra Agamas but don't know about poems of Alwars.

@KeshavSrinivasan Should I ask a question about it (like "How does Vishishtadvaita interpret the verse") on site?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.

@Pandya Do you know who the Alwars are? They're twelve Tamil post-saints famous for their devotional poetry in praise of Vishnu. The most important poems of the Alwars are the poems composed by Nammalwar. You can read the core collection of Nammalwar's poems in English here: ibiblio.org/sripedia/ebooks/tvm

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan ok; Thanks for linking the source. I didn't know about such poems.

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Sri Vaishnavas consider the poems of the Alwars to be the Dravida Veda or South Indian Veda. Nathamuni, who is the one who compiled the poems of the Alwars, is the founder of the Sri Vaishnava sect. He derived the philosophy of Visistadvaita from the Alwars' poems.

Pandya

"The founder of the Sri Vaishnava sect derived the philosophy of Visistadvaita from the Alwars' poems" - Good to know!

Keshav Srinivasan

4:45 AM

@Pandya I discuss Nathamuni in my question here:

8

Q: What is the secular account of the compilation of the Alwars' poems?

The Alwars (also spelled Azhwars) are a group of 12 ancient Vaishnava saints who lived in Tamil Nadu and are famous for their poetry in praise of Vishnu. The 4000 verses of the Alwars were compiled by the Vaishnava Acharya Nathamuni into a book called the Naalayira Divya Prabhandam, which is cons...

@Pandya By the way, here is the Sri Vaishnava Guru Parampara: Vishnu, then Lakshmi, then Vishnu's general Vishvaksena, then Nathamuni, then two other people, then Nathamuni's grandson Yamunacharya, then one other person, then Ramanujacharya.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan can you provide some source for it (I mean Sanskrit verse or something from Vishishtadvaitin)?

I found some:

Sri Vaishnavism

Sri Vaishnav Sampradaya or Sri Vaishnavism is a denomination within the Vaishnavism tradition of Hinduism. The name is derived from Sri referring to goddess Lakshmi as well as a prefix that means "sacred, revered", and god Vishnu who are together revered in this tradition. The tradition traces its roots to the ancient Vedas and Pancaratra texts in Sanskrit and the devotional love of the divine (bhakti) popularized by the Alvars with Tamil texts, songs and music. The founder of Sri Vaishnavism is traditionally attributed as Nathamuni of the 10th century CE, its central philosopher has been Ramanuja...

sriramanujar.tripod.com/vamsa_vriksham.html

> लक्ष्मीनाथ समारंभाम् नाथ यामुन मध्यमाम् । अस्मदाचार्य पर्यन्ताम् वन्दे गुरु परम्पराम् ॥

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Yeah, here is an excerpt from a work by the Sri Vaishnava Acharya Vedanta Desikan giving the Guru Parampara: gdurl.com/DViX

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan ok; Btw, I've just posted:

0

Q: How does Vishishtadvaita interpret "Brahma Ved Brahmaiva Bhavati"?

From Mundaka Upanishad, Mundaka-3, Khanda-2 Verse-9: स यो ह वै तत् परमं ब्रह्म वेद ब्रह्मैव भवति नास्याब्रह्मवित्कुले भवति । तरति शोकं तरति पाप्मानं गुहाग्रन्थिभ्यो विमुक्तोऽमृतो भवति ॥ ९॥ He who knows the Supreme Brahman verily becomes Brahman. In his family no one is born ignoran...

upanishads vishishtadvaita

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan oh... so what do they think of Indra... Does Indra lives in Swarga..?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Well, just as Mimamsakas were somewhat agnostic about Swarga, they were somewhat agnostic about the gods.

Tezz

4:59 AM

@Pandya oh I thought it was Brahma Vid Brahmaiva Bhavati... (but it's Brahma Veda Brahmaiva Bhavati)....

Pandya

@Tezz I also heard "Brahma Vid Brahmaiva Bhavati" may be from some other source?

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan what do Mimamsaka think of Nachiketa going to Yama Loka...do they think it's baseless story?...

@Pandya Maybe.... (although both mean the same)...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Look at what Shabara says here about the gods: gdurl.com/HxAh The Purvapaksha raises the possibility that the gods are just words, and Shabara responds that he feels no need to refute this possibility, because none of the doctrines of the Purva Mimamsa school would be disproved if the "gods are words" theory was true.

Tezz

@Pandya the corresponding verse in Advaita is:
"सदाशिव समारम्भम् शड़्कराचार्य मध्यमाम् । अस्मादआचार्यपर्यन्तम् वन्दे गुरु परम्पराम् ।।"
However I don't Know who created this Verse....

@KeshavSrinivasan haha...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Yes, Mimamsakas believe that quite literally all the stories found in Hindu scripture are Arthavada. Kumarila Bhatta says that even the Mahabharata's descriptions of how beautiful the Gandhamadana mountain looks are just Arthavada.

Pandya

5:06 AM

@Tezz Yes, advaita-vedanta.org/avhp/advaita-parampara.html and :

Advaita Guru Paramparā

In the Indian religious and philosophical traditions, all knowledge is traced back to the Gods and to the Rishis who saw the vedas. Thus, the advaita guru-paramparā (Lineage of Gurus in Non-dualism) begins with the Daiva-paramparā, followed by the Ṛṣi-paramparā, which includes the vedic seers Vaśiṣṭha, his son Śakti, his son Parāśara, his son Vyāsa, (the famous redactor of the vedas, he is also traditionally identified with Bādarāyaṇa, the composer of the Brahmasūtras), and Vyāsa's son Śuka. After Śuka, we turn to the Mānava-paramparā, which brings us to historical times and personalities. ��2...

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan so actually they have no problem whether Gods are just words or Real...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Haha yeah. Also they believed that if the gods are real, they don't have material bodies, as I discuss here:

1

Q: Why doesn't Purva Mimamsa accept that someone grasped Indra's hand?

As I discuss in this question, by far the most popular school of Hindu philosophy is the Vedanta school, which bases its tenets on the doctrines laid out in the Brahma Sutras, a work by the sage Vyasa that summarizes and systematizes the philosophical teachings of the Upanishads. (You can read th...

mythology vedas philosophy vedanta indra

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan Yes, I've already seen it...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz It's kind of ambiguous whether they believed in gods or not. There's another part of the Purva Mimamsa Sutras which argues that that gods and rishis are not allowed to Yagnas. So there it seems clear that they do think the gods are real.

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar where did you get the idea that Puranas are updated...? Puranas aren't Updated... If someone keeps something new in Puranas it's not called Updating Purana... It's called interpolating Purana... 😀😀

@KeshavSrinivasan why are Rishis not allowed to do Yajna... we see many examples of Rishis doing Yajnas...

Keshav Srinivasan

5:15 AM

@Tezz The argument is that only people who have three Gotra rishis can do Yagnas. But rishis are the founders of the Gotras, so they cannot name three Gotra Rishis as their ancestors when they do a Yagna.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan didn't Vishwamitra Vashistha Kasyapa did several Yajnas?...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Haha yeah, there are numerous stories in Hindu scriptures where rishis perform Yagnas. But I guess Mimamsakas would dismiss all those stories as Arthavada, haha

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan haha... but Daksha Yajna is mentioned in Vedas itself... he is son of Brahma... and Brahma son of Vishnu... if he considers Brahma and Vishnu also then he gets only two... how did he performed...?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Mimamsakas considered all stories in Shruti and Smriti to be Arthavada. They were crazy.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan haha... they were crazy... but I find their points quite interesting... 😀😀

Pandya

5:21 AM

Btw, from Shvetashvatar 1.6 : "the swan wanders about so long as it thinks the self is different from the Controller" @Tezz correct translation? /cc @KeshavSrinivasan

Tezz

@Pandya It's correct translation... why?

@Pandya the concept of Grace from Ishana face of SadaShiva in Shaivism comes from this verse...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Haha yeah, it's fun reading Purva Mimamsa works. By the way, another thing that's addressed in the same part of the Purva Mimamsa Sutras is the question of whether animals can perform Yagnas. The Purvapaksha makes the argument that animals do perform Yagnas, because we can observe dogs and cats which fast on the 8th day of every month, haha

@Tezz Shabara responds that when dogs and cats have a monthly fever then they have no appetite, it has nothing to do with Yagnas.

Pandya

@Tezz I'm just thinking that does it (may) say advaita of Jiva & Brahman?

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan haha... who observed that animal fasts on 8th day of month?...

@Pandya Vishistadvaita and Dvaita anyway find their way to intrepret in their way...

2

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Yeah, I've never heard of that fasting phenomenon before.

Pandya

5:26 AM

@KeshavSrinivasan what do you think about it?

@Tezz Haha and I'm interested in how they (manage to) interpret.

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya I assume the interpretation would be that so long as someone thinks that the Jivatma and Paramatma are completely separate, they will keep having to undergo rebirths.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan you mean that who thinks that Jivatma and Paramatma are completely separate should know/realize that they are actually have body-soul (Sharira-Shariri) relationship right?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Yeah, that's what I mean.

Pandya

ok

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz By the way, concerning the dogs and cats thing, I'm reminded of something I just found in Adi Shankaracharya's Brahma Sutra Bhashya: sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe34/sbe34164.htm The Purvapaksha argues that it's impossible for Brahman to create the world, because an intelligent beng can only create things with external helps. Adi Shankaracharya responds that that's wrong, because we observe that a female crane can conceive a child without the help of a male.

Pandya

5:35 AM

By the way, I found one verse that refers to Upanishad itself and says the importance of Upanishad:

> तद् वेदगुह्योपनिषत्सु गूढं तद् ब्रह्मा वेदते ब्रह्मयोनिम् । ये पूर्वं देवा ऋषयश्च तद् विदुस्ते तन्मया अमृता वै बभूवुः ||

^^ From Shvetashvatar 5.6.

> He is concealed in the Upanishads, the secret part of the Vedas.

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz And then the Purvapaksha responds that it's true that a female crane can conceive a child without the help of a male, but that is only because hearing the sound of thunder causes it to conceive a child.

Pandya

or "which is hidden in the Upanishads"

@Tezz @KeshavSrinivasan chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/33080646#33080646 may help to ensure the importance (for Absoulte Truth) of Upanishads. /cc @SwiftPushkar

good-bye!

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz I don't know why ancient Indians would have such a bizarre belief about thunder causing female cranes to have children without reproducing with a male.

Keshav Srinivasan

6:34 AM

@Tezz I just posted a question about the female crane thing:

0

Q: What scriptures say that female cranes can conceive from the sound of thunder?

As I discuss in this question, by far the most popular school of Hindu philosophy is the Vedanta school, which bases its tenets on the doctrines laid out in the Brahma Sutras, a work by the sage Vyasa that summarizes and systematizes the philosophical teachings of the Upanishads. You can read the...

mythology brahma-sutras adi-shankaracharya

Tezz

6:48 AM

@KeshavSrinivasan omg... it crossed the limits of strangeness....

@KeshavSrinivasan I think Shankara argument is very very weak there ... giving examples of female crane being self able has no logic to do with Brahman being fully independent....

If Adi Shankara was born in this age would he Give examples of cloning...?

Also isn't the argument by Madhavacharya failed by cloning technology...😀😀?

SwiftPushkar

7:36 AM

@Pandya - Yes , " तद् वेदगुह्योपनिषत्सु गूढं तद् ब्रह्मा वेदते ब्रह्मयोनिम् । ये पूर्वं देवा ऋषयश्च तद् विदुस्ते तन्मया अमृता वै बभूवुः ||" this also a kind of glorification of Upanishads. 😊💐

@Pandya - wht you think abt the answer i have given abt your question of Ved-stuti वेद ,उपनिषद् स्तृती ? Its a partial answer though , ftom bhagvat puran , i am still looking for more elaborate shloka , I am also very much interested in finding glorification shlokas of vedas and upanishdas.:)

@Pandya - hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/13750/…

0

A: Looking for the Stuti (verses that praise) of Vedas and Upanishads

I am here with providing partial answer of your question with " Praising of Upanishads" (upanishad Stuti , उपनिषद् स्तृती). There is a chapter in Shreemad Bhagvad purana called "Veda Stuti" or Praising of Vedas. See chapter 87 ,Verse 3 , (Gita press Gorakgpur version) in which shree shuka d...

And glorification of vedas also ...:) Your sanskrit verse

@Tezz - yes , you are correct , they are interpolations only and not a updation .But as we can see people have accepted that interpolation part , lots of people are even trading on interpolations only.

Keshav Srinivasan

7:55 AM

@Tezz "omg... it crossed the limits of strangeness...." Haha yeah, I don't know whether this is a situation where ancient Indians were ignorant of science, or what. It's hard to even conceive of a phenomenon that would lead people to think that the sound of thunder makes female cranes pregnant.

@Tezz "I think Shankara argument is very very weak there ... giving examples of female crane being self able has no logic to do with Brahman being fully independent...." Well, he's just refuting the Purvapaksha argument that Brahman cannot create without external instruments because intelligent beings always require external instruments to create. So he's responding by giving numerous examples where intelligent beings create without external instruments.

SwiftPushkar

8:28 AM

@TheDestroyer @KeshavSrinivasan - Hi 🙋💐

@KeshavSrinivasan - i have seen one documentory on grt indian mathematician "Ramanuja" found it most interesting, How he has got guided by narashimha and namagiri , and the documentory also says abt a term called "Ritumbhara pradnya" or direct cognition of cosmic order. "Aulokika pratyaksha" , that part facinated me :)

@KeshavSrinivasan - " Ramanujan"

@KeshavSrinivasan - here is that documentory - m.youtube.com/watch?v=pzP4HQpzLYM

Keshav Srinivasan

8:46 AM

@SwiftPushkar Vanakkam

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan - Vanakkam :)

Keshav Srinivasan

@SwiftPushkar Yeah, Srinivasa Ramanujan claimed to get all his results from Nammagiri, who is the Lakshmi deity of the Nammakal Narasimha temple which I discuss in this question:

4

Q: What scriptures describe Narasimha turning into a mountain after killing Hiranyakashipu?

The most famous tenple for Vishnu's man-lion incarnation Narasimha, whom I discuss here, is Ahobilam, the place in Andhra Pradesh where Narasimha killed the demon Hiranyakashipu. But there's another temple related to the story of Narasimha, the Narasimhaswami temple in the Nammagiri hill in Namm...

mythology vishnu temples hanuman narasimha

@SwiftPushkar The Nammagiri hill is supposed to be the body of Narasimha. It's sad that there's now a mosque on the hill.

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan - yes , you have covered lot's here :) grt , ohh ,

@KeshavSrinivasan - is namgiri devi , similar to saraswati or diff. form , the picture looks like a fort , whts its modern history?

Keshav Srinivasan

@SwiftPushkar Here's what Wikipedia says: "Over this massive rock, is a fort. The fort over the rock were built by Ramachandra Nayakar, a small king who ruled Namakkal during 16th century. It is believed that Tippu Sultan hide himself in this fort for some time to escape the British. The fort was not built by Tippu Sultan but he occupied it for a brief period of time.Later the fort was captured by British."

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan - ok :)

Keshav Srinivasan

9:00 AM

@SwiftPushkar No, she doesn't look like Saraswati:

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan - ok , whts the object , devi holding in her hands ?

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan " It's sad that there's now a mosque on the hill". It's really sad."

@SwiftPushkar Namaskaraha..

@KeshavSrinivasan Veerabrahmendra Swami said Muslims will occupy tirupati hill..

@KeshavSrinivasan Chinnajeeyar swami told Andhra CM to declare Tirupati as Hindu city...

@KeshavSrinivasan That is due to vote Bank politics of Tamilnadu.. In tamilnadu christian population is increasing rapidly. During recent chennai floods, they put Bible in Blankets and food packets.

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - yes :)

The Destroyer

9:18 AM

@KeshavSrinivasan @SwiftPushkar Again, there is fight between Dwaraka Peetadi pati Swaroopananda and Sai devotees. He is coming to Hyderabad today. Something interesting is going to happen today. Swaroopananda will again say Sai is not God or guru and Sai devotees are ready to tackle him..

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - ohh , one incident of ink throwing on him also took place , seen that in news

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar yeah..

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - but interestingly south has more sai devotees than Maharastra , here very few people are sai devotees , but people just visit shirdi , especially south indian hotel owner's like shetty people are more sai bhakta here.

@TheDestroyer - people here are more interested in visiting " Tirupati Balaji" :)

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar Andhra people are more sai devotees.

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - one thing i also noticed that , when people from south india migrate to MH or north , they seems to forget our hinduism deities and only keep photo of sai baba in bussiness places etc.

The Destroyer

9:29 AM

@SwiftPushkar Yesterday i saw a TV debate.. there Hindu Parirakshna Samiti member supports Sai.. These people need money.. other Guy gets angry when he listens Sai name.. He says Sai chanted name of "Allah". But Hindu Parirakshna Samiti member supports saying Allah is Shiva-Shakti and name of God.

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - ohh , ok , here the issue is not that serious. but shirdi has now turned such a worst place , due to huge crowd that lots of other non religious things happen over there eg. its like a amusement park for people now :)

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar But my myself confused whether to believe him or not. In Sri M books, he unites all religions gurus, Sri M saw Moinuddin Chishti (sufi saint), a buddhist monk, Maheshwaranath babaji, jesus standing around Sri Mahatavar Babaji (Lord Shiva) in Kailasa..

@SwiftPushkar yeah..

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - yes , i have read sai charitra , and havent found anything Wrong , he is giving messages of unity , and afterall ,since from ancient times sanatan dharma accepted everybody's good thoughts , and even not harshly objected to that , so i think the issue is not that serious , and won't interfere in core hindu beliefs much , afterall its personal choice of people whome to pray.

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar but Shankaracharyas get angry on Sai

They say Sai is destroying Sanatana Dharma but Sai is not mentioned in any Puranas, even Bhavishya purana.

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - although i am not sai bhakra at all , but don't refuse him also , i simply worship our main deities , so MH people are trying to avoid that conflict , due to donation reason also , money power

The Destroyer

9:40 AM

@SwiftPushkar me too. I pray Shiva, Durga and Venkateswara..

@SwiftPushkar yeah. I know. Shirdi is doing lots of business. Many people are living by tourism. People do visit Nashik, Aurangabad from Shirdi.

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - sai sansthan is one of the richest one , so MH gov. Is not saying anything :)

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar even though Shirdi has luxurious hotels still it is panchayat not even Municipality. Politicians are lobbying hard.

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - Yes , they do not want that , cause then lots of restrictions will be there , so ... Nobody cares and give serious attention of grampanchyat work , and lots of subsidies to grampanchyat also...

@TheDestroyer - Yes , they do not want that , cause then lots of restrictions will be there , so ... Nobody cares and give serious attention to grampanchyat work , and lots of subsidies to grampanchyat also...

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar No. hotel owners have to pay taxes if it becomes municipality. So, they are not upgrading it to Municipality even though it is qualified to become Municipality.

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - ya , thats exactly my point , just missed the right words :)

The Destroyer

9:51 AM

@SwiftPushkar when we visited Shirdi, My parents had darshan of Baba for 4 consecutive days as they found less people in Queue. Myself slept in room other 3 times..haha..

@SwiftPushkar when they asked me, "why aren't you coming?", i said i had darshan of Trayambakeswara which is more than enough..

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - ha ha , yes , on gurupunima and holidays , we see lots of rush , but casual visitors in normal days , but still substantial everyday , lot more than other temples , like astavinayaka , mahalaxami etc. Cause people from all of india simply come to visit shirdi and go back after that , without visiting any other place in MH

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar in Triyamabakeswar, they didn't allow us to touch Linga and also they don't allow women to enter the Garbha Gudi or Sanctum sanctorum.

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - one thing is clear , that people are not sai devotees , very less , but they visit for money , fame , love and all the material things and for miracle's , but people do not visit other places temples for material gain etc thats the diff. Between shirdi and other temples

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar Not only Shirdi, now people only visit temples for material gains.

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer -yes agree , but our county is poor also , lots of people won't even get enough to eat , lots of misbeliefs abt god still there among poor and village people , espicially , hard working community etc so they have to depend on somebody's miracle's for money , growth... people are innocent , but the situation forces them to do such things ..

@TheDestroyer - will talk to you in eve😊👍

Tezz

4:00 PM

@SwiftPushkar but we can't seperate interpolation of Puranas... we can only say it is likely to be interpolation... or it is 99.99% interpolation... but we can never say it's 100% interpolation...

Actually I think there are some Daivi reasons for Puranas/scriptures being interpolated...

@KeshavSrinivasan but if we examine closely there will always be external agency to happen all these phenomena... even mass is increased in body by taking food from external source only...

The Destroyer

@Tezz @KeshavSrinivasan but why does Brahman need external help when He Himself is everything? I think Adi Shankara got deluded by Maya when writing the commentary.

@SwiftPushkar or else we can reject interpolations by applying Kalpa Bheda but some interpolations are easy to find. And, i think by "analyzing Sanskrit sentences" we can find interpolations.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer he is not saying he needs external help... he is just refuting the points which say Brahman needs external help...

The Destroyer

@Tezz ok. Sorry! didn't read completely.

Tezz

4:16 PM

@TheDestroyer ok...

The Destroyer

4:31 PM

@SwiftPushkar we must ask "Dhaarmika material gains" to God. Yes, what you said is true.

The Destroyer

4:53 PM

@Tezz BVP says Shiva is satvic..

Tezz

@TheDestroyer oh it's interesting...

Rudra possess all Satwik Rajasic and Tamasic Guna.... while Shiva is beyond all three Guna...

The Destroyer

not exactly, spotless, truthful and foremost of vaishnavas.

Tezz

शिवे त्रिगुणसम्भिन्ने रुद्रे तु गुणधामनि ।
वस्तुतो न हि भेदोऽस्ति स्वर्णे तद्भूषणो यथा ।।

There is absolutely no difference between Shiva who is beyond the three gunas (satva, rajas and tamas) and Rudra, possessing all the gunas, in the same way as there is no difference between the gold and the gold ornaments.

The Destroyer

Shiva and Vishnu are Satvika..

@Tezz which purana?

Tezz

@TheDestroyer can you also give verse 23 and 24... I'm interested what names does it give....

@TheDestroyer It's from Shiva Purana ....Koti Rudra Samhita chapter 42....

The Destroyer

4:58 PM

@Tezz ok.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer it says "as spelt in Vedas"... but I have never heard such names of Rudra in Vedas...

The Destroyer

@Tezz haha.. me too

Tezz

@TheDestroyer haha... maybe they were present in lost Shakhas...

The Destroyer

@Tezz ohh..

@Tezz i have downloaded more puranas in English and Sanskrit

Tezz

@TheDestroyer oh... which Puranas?.... do you have Kurma Purana?...

The Destroyer

5:07 PM

@Tezz Yes.

All possible "Sanskrit and English" Puranas on Indian Scriptures site.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer ok... I'll ask you to send me latter... as I don't have wifi now....

The Destroyer

@Tezz You can access that folder.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer ok... so send me...

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz @TheDestroyer - 🙋

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar Namaskaraha..

Tezz

5:12 PM

@SwiftPushkar🙏

The Destroyer

@Tezz your name is already on sharing list..

Tezz

@TheDestroyer Ok...

SwiftPushkar

@TheDestroyer - Namaskara :) vandan वंदन :)👍

Tezz

I'll download when wifi becomes avaliable...

The Destroyer

@Tezz how do you scan Devanagari through mobile?

Tezz

5:14 PM

@TheDestroyer I don't scan... I type them...

The Destroyer

@Tezz oh. good.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer nowadays I feel good only when I read translations along with actual Sanskrit verses... so while writing answer also I prefer to provide both...

The Destroyer

@Tezz Even that's the reason i'm learning Sanskrit now. We should see Sanskrit verses.. some translations are dumb like Vishnu's height..

Tezz

@TheDestroyer yes... also reading in Sanskrit makes a scripture hypnotizing... it makes us to read more and more....

The Destroyer

@Tezz haha..

Tezz

5:20 PM

@TheDestroyer do you know scriptual refrence for Diwali...?

The Destroyer

@Tezz not sure. We celebrate for Narakasura vadha..

Narakachaturdasi..the day on which he was killed and next day Amavasya Deepavali

Tezz

@TheDestroyer we celebrate for Bali sinking in Patala and Vishnu giving boon to Bali Raja...

But don't know any scriptual refrences...

The Destroyer

@Tezz ohh..

Tezz

@TheDestroyer do people play Deusi and Bhailo there ?...

The Destroyer

@Tezz what are they?

Tezz

5:25 PM

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhailo

The Destroyer

@Tezz No we don't sing.

Tezz

@TheDestroyer there we also say "Haami tesai aayeka hainu... Bali Raja le Hamlai Pathako"... which means "We haven't come without any reason. We are sent by Bali Raja"....

@TheDestroyer oh...ok

SwiftPushkar

@KeshavSrinivasan @Tezz @TheDestroyer - GN /GD , Bye TC 😊

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar Good night... Be merged with Brahman...😀😀

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar What bro? Hi and Bye messages only?

Tezz

5:31 PM

@SwiftPushkar Hmmm... ^^^

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar Bye! GN