Vedanta and Philosophy

Keshav Srinivasan

01:13

@TheDestroyer Oh, I hadn't heard of any Sanskrit movies other than Adi Shankaracharya.

@TheDestroyer By the way, since you know Tamil, you may be interested in this TV serial about Ramanujacharya:

youtube.com/playlist?list=PLelnUIRHiYy9b_CAoKsekKxHQqFNNFMyn

The Destroyer

04:00

@William Because people now are giving importance to their desires and whims. Kama (lust: not just sexual lust) is dominant in many people. So, they are not following Dharma (Righteousness) and they are trying to earn money and fulfill desires by resorting to unscrupulous methods. So, Purushartha (object of human pursuit) got screwed.

Puruṣārtha

Puruṣārtha (pronunciation: /pʊrʊʃɑːrθ/, Sanskrit पुरुषार्थ) literally means an "object of human pursuit". It is a key concept in Hinduism, and refers to the four proper goals or aims of a human life. The four puruṣārthas are Dharma (righteousness, moral values), Artha (prosperity, economic values), Kāma (pleasure, love, psychological values) and Mokṣa (liberation, spiritual values). All four Purusarthas are important, but in cases of conflict, Dharma is considered more important than Artha or Kama in Hindu philosophy. Moksha is considered the ultimate ideal of human life. Historical Indian scholars...

@KeshavSrinivasan Ok.

Keshav Srinivasan

04:17

@TheDestroyer It doesn't just show the life story of Ramanujacharya, it also shows in the earlier episodes the stories of earlier Sri Vaishnava Acharyas like Nathamuni.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan ok.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer It was written by Karunanidhi, the former chief minister of Tamil Nadu, so it has an anti-caste system bias, but that wouldn't bother you.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Is karunanidhi against caste system?

Keshav Srinivasan

04:34

@TheDestroyer Yes, he is against the caste system. His party, DMK, is an anti-Brahmin party.

@TheDestroyer Karunanidhi is an atheist, but ironically the show does not have an anti-Hindu bias. In fact it portrays the Bhakti of Ramanujacharya and his followers very positively.

@TheDestroyer The whole reason that Karunanidhi decided to write a show about Ramanujacharya is due to his admiration of Ramanujacharya on the issue of caste. The Sri Vaishnava sect is not against the caste system by any means, but Sri Vaishnavas place great importance on Sharanagati, and unlike Bhakti Yoga, Sharanagati does not have caste restrictions. So Karunanidhi admires Ramanujacharya's outreach to low-caste people.

The Destroyer

04:53

@KeshavSrinivasan Atheist? Never thought he was Atheist. ohh. Good. I think for Jnana or Moksha no caste restrictions but Karmas caste system is followed (to be precise Varnasrama Dharma).

@KeshavSrinivasan But i hate them, in fact all regional parties. They loot more. Even he looted more. 2G scam is very famous.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Well, Moksha certainly doesn't have caste restrictions, since anyone can do Sharanagati. But Jnana does have caste restrictions, as Adi Shankaracharya discusses in great detail in his Brahma Sutra Bhashya.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Does Bhakti Yoga have any restrictions based on caste?

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Yes, Bhakti Yoga does have caste restrictions.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan This is bad. I will hate Adi Shankara if he supports Caste System. But i need to study the context and want to make sure if it is Varna by Guna or Caste by birth.

@KeshavSrinivasan I like Lingayats as they have no restrictions on Caste System but they are monotheists.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer He clearly specifies birth. He deduces the caste of Abhipratarin entirely based on ancestry. See Adhyaya 1 Pada 3 Sutra 34 and beyond.

@TheDestroyer Vivekananda criticizes Adi Shankaracharya on this issue.

The Destroyer

05:01

@KeshavSrinivasan it's clear now to me Adi Shankara was not avatar of Shiva. Yeah, i like Swami Vivekananda on this and his Guru RK Paramahamsa who is believed to be avatar of Vishnu.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Well, Vivekananda strongly believed Adi Shankaracharya was an incarnation of Shiva.

@TheDestroyer In any case, I far prefer Adi Shankaracharya to neo-Vedanta figures like Vivekananda. I think they completely distorted Hinduism to remove all the elements of Hinduism that might seem "controversial" to Western sensibilities.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan ohh. Shiva might have shown Maya. He Himself has come as mendicant and low caste fellow. It's sad that many of his Bhaktas are not understanding His appearance or Maya.

@KeshavSrinivasan Why should we appease westerners? They are some statements opposing caste system in Vedas too.

@KeshavSrinivasan I prefer ideas of Vivekananda. I don't say we need to remove Varnasrama Dharma. Varna based on Guna is required for a good society. A Utopian society can never survive.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Well, we're not likely to agree on the caste system issue. In any case, I think the neo-Vedanta movement was clearly trying to appease Westerners. That's why they're systematically against every single aspect of Hinduism that Westerners would find offensive or controversial: the caste system, polytheism, animal sacrifice, gender roles for men and women, etc.

@TheDestroyer "I like Lingayats as they have no restrictions on Caste System but they are monotheists." I'd like to see the Lingayat commentary on the Brahma Sutras, to see how they interpret the Sutras which say that low-caste people are not eligible for Jnana.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Vivekanda is not against Polytheism. I think we are not strictly Polytheists.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Unfortunately I haven't been able to find an online version of the Lingayat commentary on the Brahma Sutras, known as the Shrikara Bhashya.

The Destroyer

05:12

@KeshavSrinivasan i'm ok with Animal Sacrifice as it least they move them to higher lokas from Animal form bypassing Human form.

archive.org/details/…

Pandya

@KrishnShweta ok; don't mind; no-problem.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer On the issue of polytheism, see my answer here:

3

A: What is the difference between God and Devi-Devta or are they same?

The question of “god” is a complicated one in Hinduism, and depending on how the English word “god” is translated into Sanskrit, different ideas will emerge. If the word “god” is translated as “deva,” which refers to an individual deity, then there are literally millions of gods in Hinduism, most...

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/32227994#32227994 ...

15 hours ago, by Pandya

> However, the cryptic nature of aphorisms of the Brahma Sutras have resulted in the formation of numerous Vedanta schools, each interpreting the texts in its own way and producing its own commentary.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Yeah, I'm also OK with animal sacrifice, at least Vedic animal sacrifice. I'm not in favor of Tantric animal sacrifice, but unfortunately Tantric animal sacrifice seems to be the only animal sacrifice that is being done these days.

@TheDestroyer Yes, that is volume 1 of the book I'm looking for, but volume 1 is just the introduction. Volume 2 is the actual translation of the Shrikara Bhashya, but I can't seem to find volume 2 online at all.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Virasaivism was born from downtrodden people. Even Virasaivism rejects Caste System. Lingayats also do the same.

Keshav Srinivasan

05:19

@TheDestroyer Virashaivism is just another name for Lingayata.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Devi Purana mentions those animals which are sacrificed to Devi go to abode of Devi.

@KeshavSrinivasan I think they go to Kailasa.

abode of Parvathi.

@KeshavSrinivasan ok.

@KeshavSrinivasan ViraShaivates and Shaiva Siddantins some times create fuss at Srisialam Temple over traditions.

@KeshavSrinivasan Each sect wants its dominance over temple.

@KeshavSrinivasan Was Kulothunga Chola Veera Shaivate?

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Well, you know my feelings about the Devi Bhagavatam. In any case, the reason I'm opposed to Tantric animal sacrifice is that it's a well-established principle of Mimamsa that when the Vedas state a general rule, you can only violate that role under the specific exceptions laid out in the Vedas. The Vedas make clear that the general rule of Ahimsa can only be violated under certain specified circumstances, in particular Vedic Yagnas.

@TheDestroyer So I'm only in favor of Vedic animal sacrifice. But there doesn't seem to be any Vedic animal sacrifice going on for at least the past few hundred years. The last Ashwamedha Yagna was carried out in the 1700's.

@TheDestroyer No, the Lingayat sect didn't even exist in the time of Kulothunga Chola. He belonged to the Shaiva Siddhanta sect.

Pandya

I've Devi Bhagavatam but haven't read yet. :(

By the way, while talking about Vedanta, which is better?:

1. Philosophical Spirituality

2. Spiritual Philosophy

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan In Dashavataram movie Song " Parama Vaishnavas don't get frighten seeing Veera Shiavas".. I think lyricist used adjectives "Veera" and "Parama" just to mention their valor.

Pandya

I think 2nd should be more suitable.

The Destroyer

05:32

@KeshavSrinivasan Ok. I support it as you know i believe in Devi Purana. But people now-a-days are doing this more especially in Villages.

@Pandya Yeah. 2nd one is Good.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer The line from the Dasavatharam song is "Veerasaivargal Munnal Engal Veeravainavam Thorkathu". The terms "Veerashaiva' and "Veera Vaishnava" has another meaning unrelated to specific sects, namely "philosophical Shaivites" and "philosophical Vaishnavas".

Pandya

@TheDestroyer yes, just implemented here.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer That's the meaning that's being used in the song. The song isn't talking about the Lingayat sect.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan In Telugu he used Parama for veera, " Veera Shaivula bedirumplaki Parama Vaishnavam longadule".. Yeah. I know it was propagated by Basava.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Yeah, the Lingayat sect was propagated by Basava. By the way, did you know that some Lingayats don't consider themselves Hindu? That's because some of them reject the Vedas and only believe in Shaiva Agamas.

The Destroyer

05:38

@KeshavSrinivasan I think they rejected Vedas as they thought they supported caste system. But i don't follow Aagamas.

@KeshavSrinivasan North Karnataka has more Lingayats. Many Lingayats visit Srisailam temple.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Yeah, their rejection of the Vedas is related to their anti-caste views.

@Pandya The Brahma Sutras are foundational to the Vedanta school. Other schools of Hindu philosophy also use the Upanishads to support their position, like the Samkhya school. But what distinguishes the Vedanta school is that it argues that the Upanishads describe a systematic philosophy concerning Brahman. That is the project carried by the Brahma Sutras.

@Pandya And by the way, the different commentaries on the Brahma Sutras don't disagree with each other as much as you might think. They do disagree on the Sutras that deal with the core issues like the relationship between Jivatma and Paramatma, but on other issues most commentaries are in agreement with one another. (Other than Madhvacharya, who disagrees with everyone on just about everything, because he's Madhvacharya :-))

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Lol. " just about everything, because he's Madhvacharya".

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Haha

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan This year Srivari Brahmotsavam is celebrated from oct 3 to oct 11.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Madhvacharya is by far my least favorite commentator on the Brahma Sutras, because his interpretations are so far from the clear meaning of the Sutras, and essentially all of his scriptural quotes are untraceable.

@TheDestroyer Oh, are you going to go?

The Destroyer

05:50

@KeshavSrinivasan No. we want to see at least once but i think it's difficult to get. We may visit after my sister marriage.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer oh ok

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan When is your next trip to India?

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan I just wanted to discuss that If there had no Brahma Sutra work done on Upanishads, then what would have Adi Shankara, Ramanuja done?

@KeshavSrinivasan Btw, It looks like you've read Madhavacharya's commentary on Brahma Sutra right?

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan If you want to watch live events in Tirumala, you can watch from this site.

svbcttd.com/English.html

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Yes, I've partially read all of the commentaries I linked to in that question you edited.

@TheDestroyer I'm not sure, it's possible that I'll go in December but that's up in the air.

The Destroyer

05:56

@KeshavSrinivasan ok.

Keshav Srinivasan

@TheDestroyer Thanks for the link

@Pandya I've partially read the following commentaries on the Brahma Sutras: Adi Shankaracharya's Brahma Sutra Bhashya, Ramanujacharya's Sri Bhashya, Madhvacharya's Brahma Sutra Bhashya, Baladeva Vidyabhushana's Govinda Bhashya, Srikantha Sivacharya's Srikantha Bhashya, and Nimbarka's Vedanta Parijata Saurabha.

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Now. you can watch live darshan of many temples.

@KeshavSrinivasan Just visit their sites. I think few south Indian temples have this facility.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan ℰ𝓍𝒸ℯ𝓁𝓁ℯ𝓃𝓉

@KeshavSrinivasan And what about commentaries on Bhagavad Gita?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Are you using some fancy characters? Your message appears like this in my browser: ℰ𝓍𝒸ℯ𝓁𝓁ℯ𝓃𝓉

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan you're right.

Keshav Srinivasan

06:04

@Pandya And earlier I gave you a list of list of commentaries I want to read in future:

Sep 8 at 4:56, by Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Here are some of the commentaries I'd like to find in English: Bhaskara's commentary advocating Aupadhika Bhedabheda; the Shrikara Bhashya, which is the Lingayat commentary advocating Shakti Visistadvaita; Srinivasa Dikshitar's Vaikhanasa commentary advocating Lakshmi Visistadvaita; Vallabhacharya's Anubhashya advocating Shuddhadvaita; any Swaminarayan sect commentary; and any Ramanandi commentary.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan yes I remember. (we've tried to search Anubhashya in English but hasn't succeed)

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya "And what about commentaries on Bhagavad Gita?" Just the commentaries given at bhagavad-gita.us

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan that includes most of commentaries; 𝕰𝖝𝖈𝖊𝖑𝖑𝖊𝖓𝖙

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya "I just wanted to discuss that If there had no Brahma Sutra work done on Upanishads, then what would have Adi Shankara, Ramanuja done?" Well, if Vyasa hadn't written the Brahma Sutras, then someone else would have to do the hard work of analyzing the Upanishads using the principles of Mimamsa and elucidating the philosophy of Brahman described in the Upanishads.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan I think you've read Mukhya Upanishads. And Sri Ramanujacharya hasn't written commentary on it. Have you read any commentary on Mukhya Upanishads?

Keshav Srinivasan

06:11

@Pandya Yeah, I've partially read most of Adi Shankaracharya and Madhvacharya's commentaries on the Mukhya Upanishads.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan 𝔼𝕩𝕔𝕖𝕝𝕝𝕖𝕟𝕥 ; influenced. I think you (Keshavacharya) can give (own) commentary on Brahman Sutra! (or Sri Bhashya is the correct/suitable enough?)

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Haha yeah, I've thought about making a humorous Meta post at some point titled the "Keshava Bhashya" where I list the questions I've posted about each Sutra of the Brahma Sutras :-)

@Pandya But yeah, I think the Sri Bhashya is correct.

@Pandya By the way, Ramanujacharya's father was named Keshavacharya.

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan I think it is the fortune of Hinduism.SE that we've perfect representative of Ramanujacharya - KeshavSrinivasan (Keshavacharya). (When I talk/discuss with you, it feels like I'm talking with Ramanujacharya or at-least whom is closer to him!)

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya Haha

Pandya

@KeshavSrinivasan Haven't know aobut Ramanujacharya's father.

I've some work; good-bye! @Keshavacharya!

The Destroyer

06:25

@Pandya This is good. "Keshavacharya".

Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya It's because Ramanujacharya's family was devoted to the Adi Keshava Perumal temple, which I discuss in my question here:

Krishn Shweta

@Pandya OK

Keshav Srinivasan

1

Q: What scriptures describe Vishnu freeing the Bhutas from the curse of Shiva?

I just came back from a trip to India, and one of the places I visited was Sri Perumbudur. As I discuss here, it is the birthplace of the famous Sri Vaishnava Acharya Ramanujacharya. But my question about the Vishnu temple here, the great Adi Keshava Perumal temple. The story of this temple is...

@TheDestroyer Haha

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan i read that question.

@KeshavSrinivasan I heard of Sriperambadur when i was in Chennai but never visited that place.

Tezz

@All Hi Everyone...

The Destroyer

06:31

@Tezz Welcome back! How was your exam?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Hi, long time no see

Tezz

It's fine...

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan Astalaksmi temple in besant nagar beach is famous.

ashtalakshmitemple.tnhrce.in/index.html

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan yes, nearly 1 month...

The Destroyer

@KeshavSrinivasan According to temple info, Mahavishnu married Mahalakshmi there. So, Churning of ocean happened in Bay Bengal near Chennai.

Keshav Srinivasan

06:37

@Tezz There's a whole bunch of questions of mine that I've wanted to show you, like this:

Aug 16 at 18:31, by Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz @TheDestroyer I just posted a question related to the Vaikhanasa belief in "Garbha Vaishnavas", which I was discussing with you two earlier:

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan Ok thanks.. I'll look them one by one...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz And this:

Sep 2 at 15:35, by Keshav Srinivasan

@Pandya @Tezz I just posted a question about Adi Shankaracharya's Brahma Sutra Bhashya:

@TheDestroyer The temple website doesn't say the churning of the ocean or Vishnu's marriage to Lakshmi happened there: ashtalakshmitemple.tnhrce.in/history-mahalakshmi.html It just says "It is befitting to have a temple constructed and consecrated on the shores facing the sea for Goddess Lakshmi whose birthplace is the sea."

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan search of 'Tantra' in Bhagvatam doesn't show that verse...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz I think it's possible that there's more than one recension of the Srimad Bhagavatam, just like other Puranas have multiple recensions.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan it might be... but I think there aren't recensions of S.B...

Keshav Srinivasan

06:50

@Tezz I just found this:

exoticindiaart.com/book/details/…

@Tezz "I chanced to come across a rare palmleaf manuscript of Bhagavata in Subrahmanya Mutt at Subrahmanya, A cursory reading of the book ensured me that there were so many readings which differed from the printed and normally accepted readings. Thereupon I collected two more palmleaf manuscripts of Bhagavata from Subrahmanya Mutt and two others from Pejavara Mutt. I tried to collate all the different readings"

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan Oh so there are recensions...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz In any case, I hope Srinivasa Dikshitar didn't just make up a verse. I've often suspected that Madhvacharya just made up his scriptural quotes, since almost none of them can be traced to actual scriptures. But hopefully Srinivasa Dikshitar had better morals than that, considering that he was the chief priest of the Tirupati temple.

Tezz

Post Panini Sanskrit literature has abandoned the लकार altogether and uses the लकार instead

It writes same..

@TheDestroyer @KeshavSrinivasan I thought churning of ocean happened in Svetadwipa...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Yes, it did happen in the ocean of milk surrounding Shwetadvipa. I think @TheDestroyer just misinterpreted what the temple website was saying.

@Tezz Oh, I guess the author made a typo in the Devanagari

@Tezz By the way, here's another question I wanted to show you:

Aug 17 at 5:50, by Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz I just posted a question about the love story of Shyavashva Atreya:

Tezz

07:09

@KeshavSrinivasan haha... you got deep interest in Rishi Shyavyasa just after hearing his name.... may be some Karmic Connections.... Haha....

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Haha, it's just such a beautiful love story.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan haha...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Oh, and here's another thing I wanted to tell you:

Aug 19 at 20:24, by Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Earlier I told you about how Mimamsakas believe that all the stories given in the Vedas, Puranas, Itihasas, etc. are mere Arthavada, fictional stories which glorify actions like the performance of Yagnas. Well, here is an example of that from Kumarila Bhatta's Tantra Vartika: http://gdurl.com/iXSx He says that the stories of wars described in the Mahabharata are not actually true, they'e just meant to encourage kings to be courageous.

Aug 19 at 20:26, by Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz And Kumarila Bhatta says that even Mahabharata passages that don't describe anyone doing an action, like descriptions of what the Gandhamadana mountain looks like, are also not true, they're just meant to please the mind of the reader so that he'll continue reading the book.

Aug 19 at 20:27, by Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Mimamsakas were crazy.

Krishn Shweta

@KeshavSrinivasan @Tezz Hello.

Keshav Srinivasan

@KrishnShweta Hi

Tezz

07:15

@KeshavSrinivasan haha... it's interesting... by the way I'm now interested in Mimamsakas....

@KrishnShweta Hi... how are you?...

Krishn Shweta

@Tezz I'm good. Thanks and you?

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan I like the way they deal with Eternity of Sounds....

@KrishnShweta My mind is thinking now that I'm also fine...

Krishn Shweta

@Tezz Cool.....

I will join later.

Tezz

Ok...

@KeshavSrinivasan Arya Samaj people are modern day Advaitins...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Yeah, they believed that there is an eternal connection between sound and meaning. That's an issue that Purva Mimamsa and Vedanta are in agreement on.

Tezz

07:21

@KeshavSrinivasan In the Mimamsa Sutra I have read only that part which deal with authority of Vedas... and eternity of Sounds...

I find them highly logical...

@KeshavSrinivasan So Mimamsaka believe that Vyasa wrote Itihasa and Purana just to encourage kings...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Yeah, and they think he described what mountains look like just to encourage kings to keep reading so that they read the battle scenes, haha

Tezz

Haha.... it's funny..m

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz So Kumarila Bhatta argues that all the descriptions of mountains are false.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan actually Mimamsakas should grow now... It's nearly close to atheism...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz "In the Mimamsa Sutra I have read only that part which deal with authority of Vedas... and eternity of Sounds... I find them highly logical..." Yeah, on many issues they are in agreement with the Vedanta school. The only major issues where they're in disagreement are on the role of the gods, the purpose of Atma Vidya, the existence of Brahman, the creation of the world, and the truth of Hindu stories.

@Tezz Apart from that, they're in agreement on lots of issues, especially the nature of Shabda Pramana.

Tezz

07:31

@KeshavSrinivasan I tried to read further parts also... but I didn't find other parts worth of reading...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz The parts dealing with specific rituals are all boring.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan yes, I think they were highly useful in previous time...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Yeah, their main purpose was to resolve ambiguities in the instructions for the performance of different Yagnas.

@Tezz The parts dealing with the nature of gods are interesting though. Like look at the quote from the Shabara Bhashya at the end of my answer here:

2

A: Was the Purva mimansa an atheist school?

Purva Mimamsa was a school of philosophy founded by the sage Jaimini whose central dogma was that the Vedas were Apaurusheya or authorless. Other schools also believed that the Vedas were Apaurusheya in the sense that they had no human author, but Purva Mimamsa went one step further in saying th...

@Tezz See this journal paper for more Mimamsaka quotes about the gods: gdurl.com/HxAh

@Tezz By the way, rather than reading the Purva Mimamsa Sutras linearly, you can use this book to navigate to specific philosophical topics that you find interesting: archive.org/details/PurvaMimamsaInItsSourcesDr.GanganathJha

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan ok I'll see them...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz By the way, how much of Adhyaya 1 Pada 1 of the Purva Mimamsa Sutras did you read? Did you read Shabara's long commentary on Adhyaya 1 Pada 1 Sutra 5, relating to the reliability of Pramanas and the nature of the Atma and all that?

Tezz

07:45

@KeshavSrinivasan I have read few portions on realibility of Pramana... like if a story of Smriti contradicts Sruti it should be rejected... but if it neither contradicts Sruti nor is the story present in Vedas... then it should be preassumed they were in lost Shakha of Vedas...

@KeshavSrinivasan and other pramanas too...

@KeshavSrinivasan I haven't read about Nature of Atman though... what's it about?..

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz But did you read the portion that talks about the reliability of Pratyaksha Pramana and dreams and all that?

@Tezz See my question here for more information on what the Mimamsa Sutras say about the Atma:

2

Q: Does anyone agree with the Mimamsa interpretation of this Upanishad verse?

As I discuss in this question, by far the most popular school of Hindu philosophy is the Vedanta school, which bases its tenets on the doctrines laid out in the Brahma Sutras, a work by the sage Vyasa that summarizes and systematizes the philosophical teachings of the Upanishads. (You can read th...

philosophy vedanta upanishads atma brihadaranyaka-upanishad

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan No I haven't read... I want to read it... from which Adhyaya Pada it starts...?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz My question here is also related to the Mimamsa Sutras' discussion of the Atma:

5

Q: Where in the Brahma Sutras does Ramanujacharya think Upavarsha is referring to?

As I discuss in this question, by far the most popular school of Hindu philosophy is the Vedanta school, which bases its tenets on the doctrines laid out in the Brahma Sutras, a work by the sage Vyasa that summarizes and systematizes the philosophical teachings of the Upanishads. You can read the...

philosophy vedanta sri-vaishnava brahma-sutras adi-shankaracharya

@Tezz The stuff about Pratyaksha and dreams and Atmas and all that is all found in Shabara's commentary on Adhyaya 1 Pada 1 Sutra 5.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan I think incomprehensible in that verse means incomprehensible to mind... what do you think?...

@KeshavSrinivasan Ok I'll read that...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Well, Jaimini argues that your own self is comprehensible to your mind, but other people's selves are incomprehensible to your mind, and vice versa.

Krishn Shweta

08:51

@Tezz 1 small question...

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz Hartly welcome again man , I am so happy you joined again 💐

Krishn Shweta

Can we read any of our Holy Book by lying on the bed? (sorry for being such Lazy)

Tezz

@KrishnShweta ok ask....

@SwiftPushkar Thank yoU!..

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz How's ya ? Wht abt exam?

Tezz

@KrishnShweta yes we can read...

SwiftPushkar

08:57

@KrishnShweta Hi :)

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar It's fine...

Krishn Shweta

@Tezz Thanks ^.^

@SwiftPushkar Actually Bye..... ^.^

SwiftPushkar

@KrishnShweta ok khana khana hoga na :)

Krishn Shweta

Doing some work. So Bye bye @Tezz @SwiftPushkar

Tezz

@KrishnShweta ok...

@SwiftPushkar ok so how are you...?

SwiftPushkar

09:01

@Tezz - बस बढ़िया है , कल ही गणपति विसर्जन हुआ , 5 दिन बहुत अच्छा लगा. अभी नवरात्रि की तैयारी :)

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar तो ठिक है ।।

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - है है :) like tht 😊

Tezz

@Pandya I have Sarva Vedanta Sara Sangraha.. Sanskrit quote with hindi translation.. which verse you want to translate in English..?

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - I am reading upanishdas now a days , and a question came into my mind abt that. "upanishadas is pure philosophy or we consider them as part of adhytma(spirituality) .

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar Upanishads are part of Veda...

For eg. Brihadaranyaka Upanishad is a part of Satapatha Brahmana of YajurVeda..

SwiftPushkar

09:16

@Tezz - ok :)

@Tezz - i will join u@night , bye for now :)

Tezz

12:33

@TheDestroyer can you send me Shiva Purana with Sanskrit text which you have send me before... I accidentally deleted that while clearing files....

The Destroyer

@Tezz Ok.

@Tezz you can still access that folder.

@Tezz i sent you.

Tezz

12:53

@TheDestroyer ok thank you...

But I can't access it... I tried it before...

@TheDestroyer also I need Brahmanda Purana part 4..

Tezz

13:44

@KeshavSrinivasan above is Rishi part of chapter 31 Vajasanei Samhita...

Pandya

@Tezz that which is used here

The Destroyer

@Tezz Sent you Brahmanda Purana volume 4

Tezz

@TheDestroyer thank you..I just received it...

@Pandya 1st verse is:
And thereby the Yogi gets which is (called by) Agochara of Vaani, which is Sunya of Sunyavadi and Brahman of Brahmavadi.

@Pandya next verse:

.... which is the Vijnana of Vijnanavadis, Mala swarupa of Malinachittas, Purush of the Sankhya Sastra and Ishwara of the Yoga Sastra..

Pandya

14:06

@Tezz Thanks; Btw, I forgot to quote verse 782. Need English translation...

more precisely for Shiva of Shiva-Shastra and Kal of who believes in Kal.

@Tezz Btw, I wrote this post. How about it? If any suggestion. (I'll probably elaborate Advaita and Vishishtadvaita soon).

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Oh, thanks for the screenshot.

@Tezz By the way, here is Shabara's commentary on Adhyaya 1 Pada 1 Sutra 5, which contains discussion of Pratyaksha, Anumana, Shabda, dreams, Atmas, etc.: gdurl.com/m1AQ

Tezz

14:21

@Pandya:
.... who is Shiva for followers of Shaiva Agama, who is Kaala for Kaalavadis, who is principle of every doctrine, who is situated in hearts of everyone, who is omnipresent, who is the true reality; that Yogi in the Videhamukta state establishes himself in the same state....

@KeshavSrinivasan ok Thank you!... I'll read it...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz The reason why the commentary on Sutra 5 is longer and more detailed than his commentary on other Sutras is that Shabara quotes from Upavarsha's Vritti. That's the part of Upavarsha's Vritti discussed in my question here:

5

Q: Where in the Brahma Sutras does Ramanujacharya think Upavarsha is referring to?

As I discuss in this question, by far the most popular school of Hindu philosophy is the Vedanta school, which bases its tenets on the doctrines laid out in the Brahma Sutras, a work by the sage Vyasa that summarizes and systematizes the philosophical teachings of the Upanishads. You can read the...

philosophy vedanta sri-vaishnava brahma-sutras adi-shankaracharya

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan did Kumarila Bhatta wrote Mimamsa Bhasya..?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Adi Shankaracharya claims that Shabara took his arguments for the existence of the Atma from the Brahma Sutras, and that Upavarsha's Vritti on this Sutra defers discussion of the existence of the Atma to the Brahma Sutras.

@Tezz Yes, Kumarila Bhatta wrote three commentaries on the Mimamsa Sutras: 1. The Shloka Vartika, covering Adhyaya 1 Pada 1 of the Mimamsa Sutras 2. The Tantra Vartika, covering the rest of Adhyaya 1 as well as Adhyayas 2 and 3 of the Mimamsa Sutras 3. The Tuptika, covering the rest of the Mimamsa Sutras.

@Tezz Kumarila Bhatta's works are actually sub-commentaries on Shabara's Bhashya.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan omg.. how many questions you have asked in that same question... I was lost in reading the questions...

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Haha

Tezz

14:32

@KeshavSrinivasan all are avaliable or some lost now...?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Tell me if there's anything you don't understand in that question.

@Tezz All are available.

@Tezz You can read the Shloka Vartika here: archive.org/details/slokavartika015341mbp

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan ok... let me read it two three times more.. I shall try to understand.. haha

@KeshavSrinivasan oh Thanks... I finally understood your question...

Keshav Srinivasan

14:49

@Tezz By the way, the translation of the Tantra Vartika comes in two volumes. Here's volume 1: gdurl.com/VjD0/download And here's volume 2: gdurl.com/e8Ry/download

@Tezz As far as I know the Tuptika has never been translated into English, but you can read it in Sanskrit here: archive.org/details/tuptikak00kuma

Tezz

@Pandya I too just answered that question:

Worshipped in what form so ever by people as ordained in their respective scriptures. He assumes that form and takes the devotee on to the next higher step,

0

A: Why isn't there one Absolute Reality?

Absolute reality is one but as it beyond level of mind several philosophy try to discuss it in their own way so there arise many interpretations. Actually this question is addressed in Suta Samhita of Skandha Purana Yajna Vaibhava Khanda, Marga Pramanya Nirnaya Chapter. Why there are Many Paths...

@KeshavSrinivasan ok... but I think there is no use of reading them...

@KeshavSrinivasan why is it named Tantra Vartika..?

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Well, there are some parts that are interesting. What I'd recommend is using this book to navigate to philosophical topics you find interesting: archive.org/details/PurvaMimamsaInItsSourcesDr.GanganathJha Then read Shabara's commentary on that topic, and then if you want more information you can consult Kumarila Bhatta's commentaries.

@Tezz It's called the Tantra Vartika because Kumarila Bhatta discusses in part the scriptural authority of the Agamas.

@Tezz The Purva Mimamsa school believed that Agamas were not valid scriptures. That's why Yamunacharya wrote the Agama Pramanya, to refute them.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan so he accepts or rejects authority of Agamas?....

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz He rejects it.

Tezz

Oh ok..

@KeshavSrinivasan what is his main argument to reject....?

@KeshavSrinivasan some people tell that Ramana Maharsi was rebirth of Kumarila who is incarnation of Skandha... what do you think?...

Keshav Srinivasan

15:11

@Tezz I don't remember the Purva Mimamsa school's arguments, but their arguments are discussed extensively in Yamunacharya's Agama Pramanya.

@Tezz Well, I'm skeptical of the idea that Kumarila Bhatta himself is an incarnation of Kartikeya.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan oh ok...

@KeshavSrinivasan this question is dangerous:..

1

Q: Are married women allowed to fast religiously(vrata)?

In India a lot of women(both married & unmarried) fast for religious purposes. Many Vratas are there all throughout the year viz:- Varalakshmi Vrata,Mangala Gowri Vrata,Rishi Panchami Vrata(specifically done by ladies)etc. But i found the following surprising sloka from the Parasara Smriti whic...

scripture women fasting smriti parashara

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Oh, I've never heard of married women fasting being a sin.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan I think there are number of chapters in Puranas validating Vrata for married women...

@KeshavSrinivasan which one is higher authority... Parasara Smriti or Puranas?....

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Both Dharma Shastras and Puranas are Smritis, so they have equal authority.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan do you know any Upanishad which endorse fasting?..

Keshav Srinivasan

15:22

@Tezz No, I don't. The Brahmanas and Aranyakas prescribe fasting before certain Yagnas.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan oh ok...

Krishn Shweta

15:41

@Tezz that question is really dangerous...

Tezz

@KrishnShweta haha... yes...

@KrishnShweta I think that is interpolation.... or got corrupted during transmitting from generations...

Krishn Shweta

Hmm..... I think you are right.

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz I just found an interesting passage in Kumarila Bhatta's Tantra Vartika: gdurl.com/bNbd Kumarila Bhatta is discussing the fact that practices of good men are a Pramana, since good men naturally make sure that their actions are in accordance with the Vedas.

@Tezz But then an objection is raised that Hindu scripture gives examples where good men sometimes violated Dharma, like Arjuna marrying his maternal cousin's sister, Draupadi marrying five husbands, Dhritashtra conducting as Yagna even though he's blind, etc. So Kumarila Bhatta responds by trying to show that all those examples are actually consistent with Dharma.

@Tezz Like he suggests Subhadra wasn't Krishna's sister, but rather Krishna's distant cousin. And he suggests that there were five women named Draupadi who married the five Pandavas. And he suggests that Vyasa gave Dhritarashtra sight magically whenever he performed a Yagna, etc. It's really funny.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan hahaha.... It's limit of Funny...

@KeshavSrinivasan I think the English translation of Purva Mimamsaka is Pre Conspiracists... Haha...

Keshav Srinivasan

15:57

@Tezz Haha

@Tezz I don't know why he goes to such great lengths to defend the characters of the Mahabharata, when elsewhere he says that the Mahabharata is just a fictional work.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan however I liked his explanation on Indra and Ahalya... word play...

Prajapati and Dawn explanation is also nice...

Keshav Srinivasan

16:15

@Tezz I think he interprets those two examples metaphorically due to the Purva Mimamsa's skepticism about the gods.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan also why he tells "Buddha was pleased to find faults and Arguments against Vedas"..

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz But then again he uses the fact that Draupadi is an incarnation of Lakshmi to excuse her behavior in marrying five husbands.

Tezz

Did Buddha did Veda Khandana?...

I think he just rejected them....

Considering they are not in pure form...

Yes he calls she is Superhuman...

@KeshavSrinivasan Also uses example Krishna calls sixth for Karna...

@KeshavSrinivasan @KrishnShweta @SwiftPushkar @Pandya few weeks ago I had read Vaishasika Sutras and I found some interesting concepts there... I had written some concepts in my answer here...

1

A: Are there any references to Gravity in Hindu Scriptures?

Due to the dominance of Vedanta school in present time, Sanatana Dharma (Hinduism) is often seen only in the light of Vedanta. If we go with respect to doctrines, Vedanta is only a small part of philosophies of Sanatana Dharma. Sanatana Dharma is mainly represented by six philosophies like Vedan...

Keshav Srinivasan

16:30

@Tezz Oh, that's interesting

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan yes, there are other interesting concepts as well...

SwiftPushkar

17:05

@Tezz - तेजस्वी नमस्ते :) i am back , it's very nice that you are reading वैशषीका सूत्र :) :)

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar नमस्ते।। how are you...

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - Very fine man , just finished food , what's abt you ?

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar I'm also fine....

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - I have also given one answer abt maharshi Kanad & vaishasika surtras , i found rhem very fundamental to life.

3

A: What do our scriptures say about Parmanu and Maharshi Kanad?

Maharshi Kanad ( महर्षी कणाद) was born in 600 BC in Prabhas Kshetra (प्रभास क्षेत्र) near Dwaraka (द्वारका) in Gujarat, India. He is also known as Kashyap Rushi (कश्यप ऋषी) Once Kashyap Rushi was on a pilgrimage to Prayag when he saw thousands of pilgrims lettering Rice grains and flowers ...

*them

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar Yes, I had already read your answer...

SwiftPushkar

17:12

@Tezz - :) 👍

Tezz

👍👍

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz By the way, the verse you were discussing with Pandya reminds me of the following verses from Gaudapada's Mandukya Karika, along with Anandagiri's explanation of those verses: wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/mandukya-upanishad-karika-bhashya/d/…

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz -. What do you think about our ancestors knowing abt evolution? They must had been realised and mentioned it somewhere , i think , whts your views

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan ok Thanks for link... They sound similar...

@SwiftPushkar in my view first creation took place just as Vedas describe... then from other creation rise as cause and effect of first creation... thus evolution is evident and must in latter creations... we are in 51st year of Brahma and about 51×360= 18360 creations have passed just in this life of Brahma...

SwiftPushkar

17:33

@Tezz - Yes , agree , you know wht i think , they have realised concepts like human traits and named as papa& punya, they must be knowing even abt some unknown force diving life eg. Genes etc. I mean they must have senced it.

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar And Aitreya Upanishad states:

From ether came air, from air came fire, from fire came water, from water came earth, from earth came plants, from plants came Animals.

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz 👍

Tezz

So, Hindu texts do recognize that Animals come from Plants...

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz -. Nepal me navaratri manate hai kya? Hum log ghar me khet( little farm) karte hai , aur devi ko usme bithate hai :)

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar NavaRatri is the Greatest festival in Nepal...

Schools are closed for 1 month....

It's a actually RastraParva...

SwiftPushkar

17:44

@Tezz ohh i was not knowing abt that , it's very nice, all is exactly same here & there :)

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar oh so there also you get 1 month vacation...?

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz - no just for vijayadashmi 1 day only

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar oh ok... I think Deepawali is greatest there...

SwiftPushkar

@Tezz Yes , dipawali is most imp everywhere , for hindus :) you know wht i like most , Vasubaras (cow&calf pooja) & tulsi vivaha

@Tezz - i like both conecpts , they are unique to hinduism

Tezz

@SwiftPushkar oh ok... Crow, Dog, Cow, Bull, Brother are worshipped....

SwiftPushkar

17:55

@Tezz - wht do you think abt crow , i mean how crow got associeated with ancestors spirit etc. Whts reason , is it because it's annoying bird

Keshav Srinivasan

@Tezz Wow, one month holiday for Navaratri? That's amazing.

The Destroyer

@Tezz Each state has its own festival. For Andhra, Sanskranthi is most celebrated festival and next most is Vinayaka Chaviti.

Tezz

@KeshavSrinivasan actually it's from Dashain to Tihar... From Ghatasthapana of NavaRatri to BhaiTika....

The Destroyer

@SwiftPushkar Skanda Purana gives explanation of crow and ancestors.

Tezz

But called Dashain Vacation...

SwiftPushkar

17:58

@TheDestroyer - ohh ok :)

Tezz

@TheDestroyer what does Skandha Purana Says?...

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