The BBS

Annoying Robot

05:52

0

Pong, the electronic ping-pong game invented by Atari in 1972, was the first really successful video game. In Britain, 'pong' was also slang for a nasty smell, and I remember reading somewhere, a long time ago, that Atari became aware of this and had a discussion about what if anything to do abou...

Annoying Robot

16:00

0

Q: Why does Linux not show you an asterix when you enter a character for a password?

I have enjoyed Linux for about two years now, but I laugh at how hard I failed when I first started my Linux journey. I would try and enter a password and then nothing would happen. I first thought that my keyboard had failed and then I realised, yeah it does not show a star when you enter a pass...

operating-system linux

Annoying Robot

16:51

0

Q: How did early MS BASIC handle "local" variables in DEF FNX(A)?

I'm not conversant enough in Intel assembler to understand what's going on in the early MS interpreters, so maybe someone can help... Generally in MS-derived BASIC an expression would only be semi-"chunked" and in the simple cases would pretty much leave the code in its original ASCII form. For i...

microsoft-basic

wizzwizz4

17:03

I wonder whether anyone would be interested in a Retrocomputing TopAnswers.

@Raffzahn, does TopAnswers solve any of the problems you noticed, e.g. with comments v.s. chat?

Here's a summary of TopAnswers by Monica, with some emphasis on the differences between TopAnswers and Stack Exchange.

wizzwizz4

17:23

Obviously, it couldn't replace SE; the Imgur partnership, HNQ, tag system, etc. that SE provides is invaluable – but there are places the SE model falls down.

Raffzahn

20:03

Well, not sure if I want to monitor another site. But yeah, SE has shortfalls. But none of them so important to abdone the work we've done.

Personally I was rather hoping for codidact.com becoming an alternative service to SE.

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn We'd set up a feed bot here in the BBS; that way you'd only need to check this room.

Bonus: then there'd be somebody else in this room, other than me. :-p

Raffzahn

LOL

wizzwizz4

I was hoping for Codidact too, but they don't really do anything that SE doesn't.

Raffzahn

I'm browsing the site a bit rightnow.

wizzwizz4

(Other than Not Being Stack Exchange™, of course, but that isn't all that much of a problem any more, I don't think.)

@Raffzahn Which? Codidact or TopAnswers?

Raffzahn

20:06

Topanswer - that's what you suggested, didn't you?

wizzwizz4

Yes, it is.

Raffzahn

Not beeing SE is still an important issue - just because the tone came down doesn't change the underlaying issues, which are, IMHO not solved.

The integration of chat is nice, but on question level. Not sure if this is really better than comments. Comments could be weed out to keep important information bits, while chat is way too noisy to ever attempt it.

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn Starring.

Raffzahn

?

wizzwizz4

Good comments can be starred.

It's basically TA's version of upvotes.

Iirc you can choose to show only starred messages?

@Raffzahn The rate of change of badness is negative – at least, that's what the Secret Mod Cabal can see; many of the problems remain, but I expect them to go away soon.

Raffzahn

20:11

Haven't found any comment so far. only questions and answers

wizzwizz4

Sorry, good chat messages.

@wizzwizz4 That is, unless the second derivate of badness is positive…

Raffzahn

Ok, cool, though, cant see that feature, only for answer there is something alike.

StNot sure what you mean with badness or what that's related to (me stupid)

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn Unfortunately, like many of the buttons, it only shows up if you're logged in.

Raffzahn

Ok.

UI wise I'd expect to get more hints :(

SE is rather good in it's minimalist interface.

Which is the next issue I have with TA - looks extreme crowded. Not easy to get an overview ... at least not for an oldtimer like me

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn It's related to Stack Exchange. I was referencing an SMBC comic (about a mathematician-politician who values honesty saying that, if they were elected, make the third-derivative of badness negative), but I can't find it because they're not very searchable.

Raffzahn

20:15

LOL

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn That's an issue I have too. I like its style, because it reminds me of the parts of the web from before the popup ad was invented that still survive, but it's a little overwhelming.

Raffzahn

I guess it's hard to really improve over SE. Sure, there could be better comment management, structuring and maybe some improvements about chat. But they are mostly minor.

wizzwizz4

That's what the Starred view looks like. (When the browser window is larger, the links are less compressed; notificatons is left-aligned and transcript is right-aligned.)

Raffzahn

I see

wizzwizz4

On SE, I often notice people having the same conversations about the question's topic spread across the question and two or three of the answers.

TopAnswers might do that better, maybe?

Raffzahn

20:22

The UI has some appeal. Still, too much for casual reading. And I do often handle RC.SE only with half an eye.

Yes, that is soething a single chat does improve

wizzwizz4

There are no downvotes on TA, which is an interesting decision.

But you get points for chat message stars (= upvotes), like you do with answers.

Raffzahn

I do not mind downvotes. they can be constructive. And onquestions they arereally important to keep less than desirable stuff in check.

Hmm, maybe here is one change I would really like to have: It would be quite helpful if downvotes _must_ include a commend explaining the whereabouts. In my experience only few downvotes are really about what was told or its quality. Mostly there seem to be two reasons:
- general dislike of the Answer as it does not sing the fan song
- dislike of the author
both are rather rare and the later are tied to one, maybe two people.

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn That's been raised on SE, and shot down repeatedly.

I'm sure you've read those discussions, though.

Raffzahn

No. I do not care about joining that area. Too many people with not fully thought thru opinions.

I hardly watch meta on RC

wizzwizz4

I remember it making sense at the time, but I can't actually remember the rationale behind not making that mandatory; I'll quickly check.

I enjoy being able to down-vote posts I don't care for without worrying about retaliation. And I really enjoy being able to leave honest comments without worrying that they'll be justifiably interpreted as evidence that I've down-voted. I would not like to see the two systems linked. — Shog9 Jun 28 '09 at 19:36

The so-far-insurmountable problem is preventing users from just keyboard bashing "aassdgfd" if forced to type something. — bananakata Jun 30 '09 at 12:16

Raffzahn

20:31

If he doesn't mind, he has no point against. and ASDF is the same as with any other comment.

wizzwizz4

@jjnguy: The problem isn't with downvotes. The problem is with unexplained downvotes. It's easy to sit in the cheap seats and moan "this sucks". But if someone is going to randomly penalize someone, they should stand behind their opinion. — Joel Etherton Oct 6 '10 at 19:26

Raffzahn

But this brings up one real downpoint for SE - the almost impossible direct contact - like a private messaging system. Chat is no real replacement.

Jup, my point.

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn Mods can already private-message people; I see no reason to implement this. [closed]

:-p

Raffzahn

I have no problem with critics in any way. In fact, I love if people tell me their real opinion.

wizzwizz4

The “no direct messages” thing is, iirc, supposed to stop SE going the way of LinkedIn.

“Stack Overflow isn't Facebook” was the slogan.

Raffzahn

20:34

I know, and tehre are good points to leave it out, but SE is a social media, and withotu some DM, it simply lacks a much needed way of interaction.

wizzwizz4

I actually think I'm with you on the downvote comment thing, now.

Raffzahn

And that [closed] is eventually were I get most upset - too much moderator intervention ... then again, that's not SE specific but will come with each and every site.

wizzwizz4

Downvotes should usually require either upvoting an existing comment or posting a new one.

@Raffzahn TopAnswers doesn't implement question closing.

Raffzahn

Naa, I think it should require - or at least strongly suggest - a new comment, as each may give a new facet about what is considered wrong.

Ugh. bad idea. Non fitting and simply crappy questions need to be closeable.

wizzwizz4

You're assuming anyone posts questions in the first place.

Raffzahn

20:38

Serious. I see RC.SE as serving two masters - direct answer to a question asked to help the OP, but as well creating lasting knowledge. And there need to be housekeeping done to keep noise down.

2

wizzwizz4

Is that why you sometimes answer and vote-to-close questions?

Raffzahn

Not really, I for example don't have many - or if I intend to, I usually solvet them when doing basic research before posting.

wizzwizz4

Because they're off-topic, but still answerable?

Raffzahn

Yes.

Or because bad question but still answerable.

Many of them - much like that asterisk one - are't bad questions, they simply don't belong here.

wizzwizz4

The keyboard one or the password one?

Raffzahn

20:41

keyboard?

wizzwizz4

I assume you mean this one.

Raffzahn

yes.

It belongs on a linux site, as it's about linux. Not history nor anything else.

wizzwizz4

The keyboard one is this one.

@Raffzahn To play devil's advocate, that behaviour predates Linux, and was present in OSs that are on-topic.

Raffzahn

Similar this gcd question a few days ago. it's a generic programming question and belongs on the SE mainsite, not RC.

But it doesn't ask for any of these, it asks about Linux.

And it asks about a behaviour still perisent today and why it exists, not how it came to existence - the later would be on topic.

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn Because the author only knows about Linux – but virtually every Linux behaviour is inherited from an older UNIX (or UNIX-like, or UNIX contemporary), so chances are a “why does Linux do X” is on-topic.

@Raffzahn Good point. I'll edit?

Raffzahn

20:45

I see no reason to edit.

wizzwizz4

The focus of the question can be changed to make it on-topic while remaining useful to the original author and without invalidating any existing answers.

Raffzahn

I know, you got a habit of trying to make as much questions as possible to fit. But while this may have been an acceptable idea in the early days, it's less positive by now. We do not need to claim every question possible, we have worked this site to stand on its own feet.

It is better to focus on genuine RC topics.

wizzwizz4

Would it be better to migrate it to Unix & Linux, then?

Raffzahn

I would have done so instead of answering. Didn't go that way as I expected one of the usual fruitless discussions. So I decided to answer it with a generic reply worded abut history.

SO by now, I say let it be.

Speaking of questions I like to close: Think about that sprite question yesterday. It is essentially total crap - over all iterations - I did try hard to understand what he might have intended to ask, and maybe I did hit it, but the whole question is still crap, and not helpful to any future reader.

But yeah, I guess I'm ratehr on the restrictive side.

hmmm...

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn The SO model is designed for closure to be temporary.

That's why they renamed it “on hold”.

It can't really work that way for us, because there are only enough active high-rep users to VTC a question after two days – but the intention of SE's architects is for such questions to be closed as “unclear”, edited by the OP and then re-opened once they're clear.

We could ask to get the limit lowered to 3 votes.

Raffzahn

20:58

NOO WAY. Rather raise the reopen limit. In our case cloes questionsare usually bad questions.Think about that sprite question yesterday. It is essentially total crap - over all iterations - I did try hard to understand what he might have intended to ask, and mybe I did hit it, but the qhole question is still crap, and not helpful to any future reader.

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn The sprite question is open, though.

Oh, I see. It was closed.

Raffzahn

Because it got edited - but not really making it any better. I think I tried really hard to giva a solution (and feel that the second Answer may be what he was looking for, but tehre was no feedback).

I tried to get in a conversation to gain more insight what he wants, but it didn't work out - which brings another problem, especially with new users like him.

Language

Communication with people owning a lesser degree of English is a real issue. Not just for first time users. Here it would be helpful if we could encurage that they add their location/background to the user entry. After all, knowing what is the native language of a poster helps a lot to dechiffer his English writing

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn It got re-opened because it was mod-hammered open, because we mods tend to patrol the queues to make up for the lack of active high-rep users. We wouldn't feel the need to do that as much if the close vote limit was lower.

Annoying Robot

-1

Q: How were console games ported to DOS?

Many popular DOS games were ported from video game consoles: Earthworm Jim Mega Man The Lion King The Lost Vikings Turrican 2 Rayman Oscar Zool Video game consoles generally have wildly different hardware than PCs. They have different CPU architectures, graphics modes, and specialized chips for...

ms-dos programming gaming game-consoles ports

wizzwizz4

And I do think it's clear enough to answer now – even if it's still not a good question.

I don't have enough subject matter knowledge to fix the question, or answer it, though – which makes me a poor judge, which is kind of my point.

Raffzahn

21:06

No, IMHO it's still not clear, as I still can give several fitting answers.

wizzwizz4

You're almost certainly right.

Raffzahn

And again no, editing a question until it makes sense is something I would never do or want to have done. Only the OP can say which of many interpretations is the one he really wanted to ask.

This 'mod-hammering' is exactly one of my concerns. We do have a rather active core group, and if ther aren't enoug reopen votes, then it might not need to be reopened - after all, there were enough people caring to close in the first place.

I dosometimes editquestions for readability or to add links, but I try hard to avoide any content changing - even if the OP mentions it in a comment.

Speaking of stupid questions which are in addition not RC related - have you seen the one that came just in?

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn Thanks for letting us know! (cc: @Chenmunka @MattLacey)

The official mod guidance says we should stop doing that as much when the site's moving out of beta, but it's designed for Super User-sized sites.

Raffzahn

(after all, each mod is as well a user with enough privilege do cast his vote as a peer, isn't it?)

wizzwizz4

@Raffzahn We can't vote without hammering.

I've requested the feature a lot.

Raffzahn

21:12

Oh, ok, didn't know that. That makes anotehr poit that should be changed.

I assumeds mods are users with benefits :))

wizzwizz4

We have automatic Gold Tag Badges on every tag, effectively.

Raffzahn

Moving out of Beta might be the most important issue to change right now - and one that should be doable.

wizzwizz4

There's internal SE politics going on. I'll ask Catija to add us to the list next time I talk to her.

But the list is reasonably long at the moment.

Also, I don't think we meet all the requirements for graduation yet.

1708

Retrocomputing – retrocomputing.stackexchange.com

Beta Q&A site for vintage-computer hobbyists interested in restoring, preserving, and using the classic computer and gaming systems of yesteryear.

Currently in public beta.

Questions per day is too low.

Raffzahn

Please do so. We excel at any point except for questions per day - which, IMHO is a stupid metric, as Retro is simply a smaler topic than like programming in general.

And we do so since years.

Not to mention that there are many mature site that receive less questions.

Also, IIRC, these are only criteria for automatic 'maturity' other sites smaller than RC have been graduated before.

1708

Retrocomputing – retrocomputing.stackexchange.com

Beta Q&A site for vintage-computer hobbyists interested in restoring, preserving, and using the classic computer and gaming systems of yesteryear.

Currently in public beta.

wizzwizz4

In three years we'll meet the age requirement.

Raffzahn

21:20

Oh, there is one?

wizzwizz4

As of August last year.

485

Q: Congratulations to our 29 oldest beta sites - They're now no longer beta!

If you're a user on a long-toiling beta site that's been waiting 7-8 years to get out of beta, this may be the post you've been waiting for. The 29 Beta sites that are 7+ years old no longer have the "Beta" label! I'm on record as saying that we need to ditch the "beta" label for our older site...

discussion beta-sites announcements site-lifecycle full-sites

Raffzahn

Not sure if I want to wait another 3 years. Originally I just peeked in and got teased to do an aswer - the question was just too simple :))

Hmm

THis looks like a second class graduation, independent of activity. I still think RC.SE is ahead of most of them due it's comparably good activity stats.

wizzwizz4

The top answer is about us.

103

A: Congratulations to our 29 oldest beta sites - They're now no longer beta!

As an avid user of a site in a similar situation that is not seven years old, I'm very pleased to see this. I do not share the worries expressed in other answers here that similar but younger sites may find this bad in some ways. I too think that the 10 QPD criterion isn't a good one. Retrocompu...

Raffzahn

To continue on languages - it would be nice if we could get users to give that information as it allows better interpretation of questions - just think of Leo B. His English is quite good, still, I do really understand some of what he want's only because I had basic exposure to the way Russians word their ideas

Anyway, I hope you and your beloved will make it thru this time and have a fine holliday.

wizzwizz4

21:40

@Raffzahn And you. ☺

@Raffzahn The usual way of solving this problem on SO is for somebody who mostly understands the question to edit it for clarity, then ask the OP whether that's what they meant.

This works off Cunningham's Law.

But it requires the OP to be active.

Raffzahn

21:54

True.

Annoying Robot

22:22

0

Q: How were the NES's RNGs seeded in the 2020 CTWC?

The 2020 Classic Tetris World Championship was, due to the pandemic, being held via Twitch streams from the player's homes. I am currently watching the playlist on the YouTube, and noticed that in every match both players get exactly the same Tetris pieces. The rules state the following about thi...

gaming nes

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