Jaami'at StackExchange al-Islamyya

Badger Girl

14:00

@goldPseudo Thanks

Power-Inside

Yay! So with every hardship comes ease! Indeed! :D

Badger Girl

@Ashu Yes, you may invite me. See above.

ashes999

What about the ayah "laa taqraba az-zinaa"?

Dynamic

@Ashu @BadgerGirl If I could just interrupt, according to your profiles, you're on opposite extremes of Eurasia. I hope you have cash for a plane ticket :P

ashes999

and the ayah about lowering your gaze?

goldPseudo

14:02

like i said, right intention, and follow the rules for modesty.

seeking a marriage partner isn't "approaching zina".

Ashu

how do i share a book mark?

ashes999

@goldPseudo right intentions cannot override an ayah though. The means and ends both must be justified.

Dynamic

@Ashu Find the link of the bookmark and share it through social networking :P

Or did you mean something else?

Badger Girl

@ashes999 How can you find a marriage partner then?

ashes999

Plus the hadith prohibiting "khulwaa" or being alone with a person of the opposite gender. Scholars say that being "alone" does not mean physical isolation, but being absent from those who would stop you from doing wrong.

Ashu

14:04

@BadgerGirl arranged marriage

ashes999

@BadgerGirl I don't think you will like this answer, but it depends a lot on your culture. Islam does not predefine exactly the process; it gives guidelines and rules on certain parts.

Ashu

parents uncles aunts etc find one for us

Power-Inside

@BadgerGirl facebook

ashes999

@Ashu please be specific: non-forced, consentual arranged marriage

Badger Girl

@Ashu What if my parents are not muslim?

Dynamic

14:05

@PowerInside :P

goldPseudo

chaperoned dates, or double-dates, would not be considered khulwah except by the most extreme of interpretations.

ashes999

because if you allow dating, that can lead to a lot of sins, not to mention date rape, which is sadly common.

@goldPseudo absolutely, chaperoned is a different issue altogether.

goldPseudo

and i don't subscribe the the notion that something should be haram just because other people might abuse it. something is haram if there's clear evidences prohibiting it.

to me, that's like saying the internet should be haram because it's so easy to download porn.

Ashu

the internet and porno example

oh you already posted it

srry

ashes999

@goldPseudo there is a clear hadith that "whatever leads to haram is haram"

and another hadith says: "what is haram in large quantities is haram in small quantities"

so there's clearly a grounds for it.

Badger Girl

14:08

So is the internet haram?

ashes999

the ends don't justify the means; both must be in accordance to divine legislation.

hahaha

goldPseudo

agreed.

ashes999

@BadgerGirl: that would depend on why you use it. If you use it exclusively for porn surfing, absolutely that would make it haram.

goldPseudo

i'm just saying that, just because it leads some people to haram, doesn't mean it leads everyone to haram, or that it's haram in and of itself.

if you fear it will lead you astray, then avoid it. no doubt about that; that's clear sunnah.

ashes999

@goldPseudo you cannot negate rulings upon yourself by saying "I will do it properly." It doesn't work like that. Islam contains general laws. We follow them, even if we think "it shouldn't apply to me because of X."

Scholars talked about the wisdom behind legislations. Sometimes we know. Sometimes we don't. Often, it's difference of opinion between scholars, and we can't say who is more right.

Badger Girl

14:12

@Ashu I cannot accept anymore, sorry.

goldPseudo

obey God and his Messenger and those in authority over you. Show me that God and his Messenger have prohibited it clearly (rather than prohibiting certain actions that can go along with it), and I'll agree with you.

I read through the wisdom and evidences of the scholars, but I do not consider them to be "those in authority over me".

Ashu

@BadgerGirl cmon!!!

Badger Girl

@Ashu Are you really 17?

Ashu

@BadgerGirl well i dont lie much

u have a prob with my age?

Power-Inside

I've seen a lot of answers with references like "from online chat by asking imam etc etc".. They aren't really welcome right?

Dynamic

14:15

Blog - Stack Exchange: Welcome to the Arqade: Rebranding a Successful Site

Lauren Gundrum on June 26, 2012

Question: What do Stack Overflow, Super User, and Server Fault have in common that most of the sites on our network don’t?

Answer: A unique brand.

It’s no coincidence that our three largest sites happen to have their own brands. Unique domain names are more memorable than the subdomains that cover most of our network, which we believe is part of the reason why those sites are so successful. Gaming.stackexchange.com has been growing on its own for a while now: the community is extremely active and it has some of the best traffic statistics of any of the non-trilogy sites. The site has gotten a lo …

Ashu

@Dynamic wats the point?

Dynamic

Interesting post. I'm active on Arqade, but for those of you who don't know...

ashes999

@goldPseudo I'm not going to argue endlessly with you. You choose what to believe, but be warned that Islam is "submission," not "understand and follow what you think is right."

Dynamic

Usually there is an SE blog feed in chat rooms

@ashes999 Can you add that?

Please

ashes999

Proofs are in Qur'an (laa taqraba az-zinaa), hadith (see mentioned proofs above), and statements of various scholars in various fatawa; feel free to look it up. Don't make your own ijtihaad on your own understanding

@Dynamic add what? :/

okay, sure

adding

Dynamic

14:16

@ashes999 A feed for the SE blog

Ok Thanks

ashes999

why do I have this responsibility? lol

Stack Exchange

ashes999 has made a change to the feeds posted into this room

ashes999

done

Dynamic

@ashes999 You can give it to somebody else (wink, wink) lol just kidding

goldPseudo

there is a very fine line between following scholars, and worshipping scholars, and I prefer to stay very far from that line while seeking knowledge.

Dynamic

14:17

@ashes999 Thanks!

ashes999

@goldPseudo you are falling into worshipping yourself -- you are deriving fiqh from rules. That's very dangerous. Imam Ash-Shafiee outlined qualities of a mujtahid (someone capable of doing this), and one of the many requirements is "complete fluency in Arabic language (Fushaa)." Be very careful.

Badger Girl

Oh no, the server is down. Everyone is stressed.

In my company.

Power-Inside

@BadgerGirl lol grab a coffee and ponder for some more questions on islam.SE then

Badger Girl

That's what I am doing, but the sys administrator is yelling like crazy.

I have another question. Is there any restriction on age difference of a married couple in Islam?

Dynamic

@BadgerGirl Not that I know of

Badger Girl

14:26

And should the man be older than the woman?

Dynamic

@BadgerGirl No. The Prophet's first wife was much older than him.

If I'm not mistaken, 15 years.

Power-Inside

@BadgerGirl both must hit puberty and ready for it. Everything else is usually cultural.

ashes999

@BadgerGirl you seem very interested in the topic of marriage in Islam.

Badger Girl

Oh, I didn't know that.

ashes999

@PowerInside there are some requirements for a valid marriage contract, that's not cultural

Badger Girl

14:28

@ashes999 They just told me that I was very interested on diet in Islam a second ago.

Power-Inside

@ashes999 Oh and a few more.. /slaps myself for passing quick blurbs..

Sorry, :|

Ashu

well anybody still interested in the dating topic please see this video

►

Dynamic

@BadgerGirl Let's just conclude that you are interested in Islam. :P

Badger Girl

@Dynamic Yes I am. :)

Ashu

@BadgerGirl good

ashes999

14:29

@BadgerGirl Islam has some very interesting dietary recommendations. But they require a fair amount of willpower :) (the optional ones)

Badger Girl

@ashes999 Really? Do you have any examples of a recommendation?

ashes999

@BadgerGirl yes, would you prefer sources or just off-the-cuff information?

Badger Girl

off-the-cuff :P I trust you

ashes999

okay, I'll try to live up to your expectation

one wife of the prophet muhammad (peace be upon him) said that he used to eat "the two black things" (dates and water) -- that was his primary diet

he used to eat meat twice a year (on the two Eid celebrations); rarely beyond that

he said "the worst vessel a human can fill is his stomach. Eat enough to keep your back straight. If you MUST eat more, eat one-third, drink one-third, and leave one-third of your stomach empty for breathing."

Badger Girl

Doesn't seem so hard. I could totally live with that.

ashes999

14:32

I started trying the one-third thing, and it really taxes your self-control and willpower.

Badger Girl

I love dates.

ashes999

The fruit?

:P

Badger Girl

Haha, yes. I was talking about that.

Meat twice a year seems harder...

Does fish count as meat?

Ansari

@ashes999 not to nitpick but the Prophet (saws)'s personal eating habits aren't necessarily recommended for us unless he explicitly said so right (ref. the meat twice a year thing)

there were weeks going by in his household as well when "no fire was lit" meaning no cooked food

ashes999

Not sure @BadgerGirl; it's mentioned in the Qur'an as "the best meat," not sure in the hadith

Ansari

14:35

but that's not an optional recommendation for us

ashes999

@Ansari nitpick away, the one-third thing is a general hadith from what I understand; for all of us to try to apply.

Ansari

i was only nitpicking about the meat twice a year thing

ashes999

@Ansari I believe there are statements of early generations (Abdullah ibn Umar specifically) who mentioned similar implementation

oh okay

@Ansari see hadith about: dates and water

Ansari

see, or dig up? :P

ashes999

that pretty much implies no meat. Or anything else.

@Ansari do you want a reference? I can look it up for you inshaAllah.

Ansari

14:36

no no it's cool

ashes999

don't take this trust thing too far, everybody makes mistakes :)

Ashu

well im late but how is water black?

ashes999

@Ashu call it a translation thing. It's described in the hadith as "two black things," but the meaning of it is water and dates. (Dates are brown, yeah, I know.)

Ashu

well i get black dates in india

ashes999

@Ashu really? I like those brown, juicy Algerian ones. I'm not really into dates.

Ansari

14:40

apparently the word in the hadith is al-aswadain at-tamri wa al-ma'a

Power-Inside

@ashes999 I think it must have been olives and/or dates.. I think there was some speculation regarding the prophet's diet on olives and stuff..

ashes999

are you sure "at-tamri wa al-maa'a" @Ansari is not an addition of a narration?

Ansari

sunnah.com/urn/50380

and a couple more as well

mention dates and water explicitly

ashes999

awesome

Ansari

anyway it sounds weird

but arabic is a poetic language

ashes999

14:42

yeah

Dynamic

@Ansari ooetic?

Oh sorry

Ansari

they have a special phrase structure for "two things"

ashes999

duals, we call them

Ansari

just add an "ain" or "aan" to the singular

Dynamic

@Ansari Kinda like adding an "S" in english

Ansari

14:43

still wondering how water is "black" though

Dynamic

I'm more accustomed to "slang arabic"

Ansari

maybe when you drink it out of a waterskin it appears black?

Dynamic

or filahi

ashes999

@Ansari if the container is dark, it looks dark too, I guess.

@Dynamic which regional dialect of Arabic is that?

Badger Girl

Do you all speak native Arabic?

Al Ummat

14:44

I do

ashes999

nope, just bits and pieces

Power-Inside

Maybe it was water with fennel seeds? Black seeds? (for enrichment?)

Dynamic

@ashes999 Well we call it filahi. It's a Palestinian dialect

If that's what you'd call it

I'm really not sure.

Badger Girl

@AlUmmat Where are you from?

ashes999

@Dynamic that's interesting. It's sad that every Arab country has their own dialect. If everybody spoke fushaa, even foreigners like me who learn it could travel in the Muslim world and get by okay in communication.

Al Ummat

14:45

@BadgerGirl syria

Dynamic

@ashes999 I understand fushaa, and read it, but I have a hard time speaking it.

Oh and I write it

refhat

@AlUmmat: Are you chatting from Syria right Now

ashes999

@Dynamic that sums up the problem very nicely :) nobody speaks it much anymore, except in media and university.

Stack Exchange

0

Q: A right answer getting downvoted without any special reasons

I see wherever this user, it's has got downvoted (sometimes, heavily) without any comments mentioning what is wrong with it. I mean more the situations where they are valid ones. I wonder if it's because of the past impression users got by his/her answers. I think this is not a nice thing to se...

Dynamic

@ashes999 Well, then again, I was born and raised in America.

So there aren't many arabic speakers

Al Ummat

14:48

@refhat no no I am currently living in the usa

Dynamic

@ashes999 I used to go to an Arabic/Islamic school at a masjid every Sunday. They taught fushaa which is how I learned it.

But when we would talk to the teacher, we always talked kind of "slang".

Power-Inside

@StackExchange sigh...

Badger Girl

Is Arabic very hard to learn?

Dynamic

@BadgerGirl Well, what language(s) do you know?

Badger Girl

@Dynamic Spanish, English, German and Portuguese

Dynamic

14:50

@BadgerGirl For you, probably not. Spanish is somewhat similar to Arabic.

For an English speaker, it gets a lot harder

Al Ummat

because of 800 years of occupance of Arabs in spain

Dynamic

At least, spanish is similar when it comes to talking. Reading/writing may take you some time.

@AlUmmat Exactly. During the Middle Ages.

Al Ummat

yes

refhat

@AlUmmat glad otherwise your country is in big turmoil.

@BadgerGirl: Hello

Al Ummat

@refhat Yes, But I am told by my friends that in Damashcus it is not that bad but it is getting worse

Ansari

14:54

going back to the reddit thing - i too would suggest initially not publicizing on reddit r/islam or anywhere else

the non-trolls will probably hear of this otherwise anyway

i'm actually scared of the reddit trolls

refhat

@AlUmmat hope everything becomes peaceful soon.

Ansari

they're, like, professional trolls

Dynamic

@Ansari Hmmmmmmm... Reddit gets other sites tons of publicity though.

ashes999

+1 @Ansari, Reddit and Digg have very professional trolls

Badger Girl

@refhat hello

Ansari

14:56

yes but r/islam and r/exmuslim have a particular "love" for islam

they show up and next thing you know

a perfectly nice topic has 3 chains with 20 messages back and forth on a totally tangential topic that does no good to anyone

Power-Inside

@ashes999 Digg is better.. its a lot decent.

Al Ummat

@refhat Insha'Allah, i pray and pray

Dynamic

@Ansari We'll have lots of publicity opportunities elsewhere.

Ansari

exactly

i mean eventually r/islam will hear of it

and so will r/exmuslim (loud sigh)

ashes999

hopefully we'll have our diamond mods by then

Ansari

14:58

but i'd like to build up some moderators before that happens so we can effectively deal with the trolls

Power-Inside

anyways, good luck to y'all.. brace for impact. :)

Dynamic

@ashes999 My favorite job: crushing trolls :-)

Ansari

prepare to spend time obsessively on this site then @Dynamic

ashes999

I hope so @Dynamic, I hope so.

Dynamic

@Ansari Schedule cleared :-)

ashes999

15:00

@Ansari you mean we're not already? ;)

Ansari

@ashes999 speak for yourself :P

Badger Girl

What is the mechanism for handling trolls?

Dynamic

@BadgerGirl Search and destroy :-)

Power-Inside

@BadgerGirl classified

ashes999

hey, lets get into those interesting meta questions again: should I be commenting on questions and saying "Did you research this yet?"

refhat

15:00

@BadgerGirl wassup, I saw your blog a couple of days ago

Ansari

if it's clear it's a troll, flag, delete, move on. don't engage

if it's not clear, ask to clarify, leave a comment for others to not feed the troll

Dynamic

No, actually we close questions. If they are repeat offenders, we suspend their account. If they do it again, we ban their IP.

Badger Girl

@refhat Heh, thanks.

Ansari

i'd rather delete vandalism questions than close them

refhat

@BadgerGirl what do you code actually

Dynamic

15:02

You know, we might need more than 3 mods just to deal with trolls, let alone flags and such.

Badger Girl

@refhat Right now Android.

refhat

@BadgerGirl cool, do you use java?, what is your experience in web development

Badger Girl

@refhat Yes java, I do web development too, php.

refhat

@Ansari: Can I get into your topic, what are you talking about

@BadgerGirl cool and you are from Germany

Ansari

well we were discussing publicity on reddit then moved on to how to deal with trolls

Dynamic

15:04

@refhat Search and Destroy Episode 5: Trolls

Badger Girl

@refhat No, mexican working in Germany.

Reddit is where the trolls live.

And 4chan.

Ansari

i think 4chan is their birthplace

lil baby trolls learning the ways

Dynamic

@ashes999 @Ansari What do you think about starting the mod nominations tonight/tomorrow so that we can get them ASAP?

refhat

@Dynamic: what do you mean. I am noob in this

Ansari

feeding on lulz

Dynamic

15:06

@refhat About what?

ashes999

@Dynamic I don't know. I missed out the whole process last time. I bow out to people of more experience about this.

Badger Girl

But yeah, they are so good that their questions might seem legitimate.

ashes999

(last time = PM.SE when I was obsessing there)

Badger Girl

And they work in groups too.

Ansari

yeah i think getting pro tem mods up now would be a good idea

refhat

15:07

@Dynamic you said, Search and Destroy Episode 5: Trolls, what does this mean

Dynamic

@ashes999 I've done this three times :-)

Ansari

@BadgerGirl yes i remember the whole flap about mormons and magnetism

man ...

Dynamic

@refhat Oh. it was a joke

ashes999

@Dynamic then you tell me, what do you think about doing the election tonight or tomorrow?

refhat

@Dynamic to whom were you referring. I just joined the thread

@BadgerGirl Are you a Muslim

Badger Girl

15:08

@Ansari I do too.

@refhat No, I am not.

Dynamic

@ashes999 It's not gonna be an election. We nominate people who we think would do a good job (we can nominate ourselves), and SE picks who they think the best are out of the nominations.

refhat

@BadgerGirl I have seen your lots of questions. Any liking for Islam

Dynamic

I'd say post it tonight. SE takes about a week to decide. I'm sure if we nag we can get them faster.

Ansari

in that case why not start now

Badger Girl

@refhat Yes, I have a lot of interest on Islam.

Ansari

15:10

and nag in a few days if the trolling gets much

refhat

@Dynamic what are you asking to post

Dynamic

@Ansari Have to wait till Public Beta

@refhat The mod nominations

Ansari

oh ok

no i mean it's just a post on meta right?

refhat

@BadgerGirl You are very lucky, Allah sends this siprit to selected ppl in universe to acknowledge truth

Dynamic

@Ansari Yeah

Ansari

15:11

looks like @goldPseudo is getting some work done :)

Power-Inside

@Dynamic I can't wait to earn my badges after I vote.. :D

refhat

@Dynamic who will nominate moderators

Dynamic

@PowerInside No election. We're not voting.

@refhat Stack Exchange.

refhat

@Dynamic and what is the criteria. Am I eligible

Dynamic

Blog - Stack Exchange: Moderator Pro Tempore

Robert Cartaino on July 27, 2010

There’s a bit of a leadership vacuum inside the new Stack Exchange communities in public beta. We’ve put a lot of responsibility on each group to take ownership of their own site. The Stack Exchange team can act as guide, but we don’t always have the domain knowledge to understand the needs of each group. As the Network expands, this stretches our ability to assure that each community’s issues are properly addressed.

That’s why I am in the process of identifying and organizing a team of provisional Moderators from within each community (about three per site, starti …

For anybody who cares, read that.

@refhat Read the post

refhat

15:13

@Dynamic wow I would love to be the mod of islam.SE if I apply will you support me

ashes999

@Dynamic that's interesting. There's a hadith that "we don't give people who want leadership, reins of leadership" -- an Islamic concept.

Dynamic

@ashes999 There is a good reason why. But mods aren't really leaders of the site. They are more of a link between the community and SE.

And they can do some really cool things

:-)

refhat

@Dynamic @ashes999 mods are the guys who have additional responsibility, they are in o way leaders of SE sites. The take care of guys who spam, advertise and ask irrevelant stuff

Badger Girl

Rather than leaders, they work for us.

Dynamic

@BadgerGirl Exactly

Ansari

15:20

aren't all leaders supposed to "work" for their people? :)

Badger Girl

@Ansari That too. :)

Dynamic

@Ansari Emphasis on "supposed to"

Ansari

well, no reason to deviate from idealism (yet)

Badger Girl

I would say, the leaders are the most active members since they set the tone of the site. But mods usually have a good reputation. So mods are a subset of leaders.

refhat

Actually they are the guys who drive traffic to wards SE

Dynamic

15:23

@BadgerGirl I'd rather not have our high rep users me mods.

Less time to give good answer.

@refhat Mods to more janitorial work then anything (closing, editing, etc.)

Gotta go guys. BBL. Salam

refhat

@Dynamic Agreed everywhere, but still I would love to be a moderator for Islam.SE

ashes999

Great discussion...

Badger Girl

@Dynamic Byee

Ansari

also @ashes999 there's another angle to the leadership thing

the example of joseph (as) when he nominated himself for the job

when he feared that no one else was as capable as him

ashes999

@Ansari past nations are not a source of proof for legislation ;)

Ansari

15:30

and the task was ultra sensitive

well this isn't legislation

ashes999

Isn't it?

Ansari

but i remember in a tafsir course i took the instructor mentioned this

ashes999

I dunno bro.

just sayin'.

@Ansari he probably had this as a secondary proof

Ansari

:) let me look it up

might even ask a question then

Badger Girl

@ashes999 sometimes you scare me, but in a good way

ashes999

15:31

@BadgerGirl what do you mean?

Badger Girl

@ashes999 I don't know, you always have good arguments.

ashes999

@BadgerGirl not always. I keep saying "Islam is built upon knowledge." I see a lot of questions I know the answer to, but not in details with proofs, so I let others handle it...

Badger Girl

Is betting allowed in Islam?

refhat

@BadgerGirl No way

gotta go guys

Salaam

Byee

Badger Girl

Salam

ashes999

15:36

ws

Ansari

man today is a baaad day to launch a public beta :S

refhat

Thanks badger Girl

I lke that

Badger Girl

@Ansari Why is that?

refhat

@Ansari why I will join you again in about 1 hour

Ansari

redditors are all fired up for their "war on Islam" (not my term)

refhat

15:36

I need to hit the road and travel to home

goldPseudo

i can advertise on 4chan if we want more traffic.

Ansari

gee thank you @goldPseudo

good to have you back

goldPseudo

there'll probably be plenty of people willing to "help" us out.

Badger Girl

@goldPseudo Oh, why didn't I think about that.

Ansari

yes 4chan that fount of altruism

Badger Girl

15:37

Let's recruit mods there.

ashes999

@BadgerGirl he's being sarcastic...

Ansari

(lol @ashes999 she knows)

Badger Girl

I do. :P

ashes999

I wasn't sure myself :/

Badger Girl

20 minutes and I'm free...

ashes999

15:45

@BadgerGirl what is it about Islam that interests you to participate so much here?

(if I may ask)

Badger Girl

@ashes999 Many things, let's just say that the muslims I've personally met give Islam a very good name.

ashes999

I hope we haven't dropped that good name yet.

Badger Girl

Not at all... all the people here are very helpful.

goldPseudo

God willing, the site is not going to break down sectarian lines. most of the active users seem to be using their votes responsibly so far.

Hopefully it will be enough to counter the occasional spite-DV.

Dynamic

YAY! First silver badge!

goldPseudo

15:53

gratz

Dynamic

@goldPseudo You were the first one to get the badges though :P. [convention]

goldPseudo

that's more because i talk a lot than anything else.

Dynamic

:P

Ashu

@ashes999 adding of the SE blog uses up precious space in the community bulletin. Please revoke your actions

Dynamic

@Ashu That wasn't @ashes999 fault.

He doesn't have power over the bulletin.

That's mandatory by SE

Ashu

15:58

i know but it is still using up space

we need that space for more imp stuff

ashes999

@Ashu I'm just "the people's servant," you guys fight it out and decide what you want

Dynamic

@Ashu But we can't change it.

Badger Girl

I will leave you now guys, salam :)

ashes999

wa'alikum as-salaam @BadgerGirl

Ashu

@BadgerGirl bye

Dynamic

15:58

@ashes999 Wait. You can change the community bulletin?

@BadgerGirl wa aliakum assalam

Ashu

we can?

ashes999

What is this "community bulletin" thing you speak of?

Dynamic

@ashes999 Home page. Right side

Top

ish

@ashes999 He thinks you can change it

ashes999

that's SE code, I don't have any tools for that

Ashu

ashes999

15:59

saw it, thanks @Ashu

Dynamic

@Ashu Yeah. He can't change that. Only a mod/SE can

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