The Bakery

bngtlrs

00:02

Hm, read it but I don't quite get the point. If success measures in the proportion of actions from outside the community, how can a rule set excluding contributions help with that?

dunsmoreb

It's the same reason that we have the FAQ.

If we allowed anything no matter the relevance to the Pi, we would lose the point of this site.

The reason for having multiple SE sites is to separate content by topic.

Your question wasn't a bad question, it just wasn't a good fit for Raspberry Pi.

Steve Robillard

@dunsmorebdid you see the newest ?

now I don't think there is anty ? it is OT

dunsmoreb

@SteveRobillard Can you please elaborate on your second sentence? Sorry.

bngtlrs

I would not suggest allowing anything. I would just formulate the acid test the other way around: "If you can add 'Raspbery Pi' to a question fom another stackexchange, you should post it in here and discuss the specifics of Raspberry Pi regarding it."

dunsmoreb

What do you mean by allowing anything?

The problem with your acid test is that we are stealing users from other sites.

This is a big no-no with proposals.

bngtlrs

00:10

I meant as in "anything no matter the relevance to the Pi"

dunsmoreb

This is relevant to the Raspberry Pi.

0

Q: How can I get official unbanned from the official forum/site? Posted 3 civil posts and was IP banned

As the title really. Got IP Ban for making observant and passive remarks criticizing moderation techniques in comment threads, now I can't access some of the technical data and its bloody unprofessional of them. I know I could reset my router and have a new one reassigned but I cannot be bothere...

web

You can't just let anything go.

That is why every site has an FAQ that states what questions are on- and off-topic.

Btw, can we retag web => web-browsers?

bngtlrs

No, that is webmasters: webmasters.stackexchange.com/questions/25235/…

(if you subtract the "official Rasberry Pi forum")

dunsmoreb

No. It isn't.

It's a rant about why he shouldn't be banned from the official RPi forum.

bngtlrs

Then it isn't even a question.

dunsmoreb

Technically, it is. It's asking how he can get unbanned.

Steve Robillard

00:17

@dunsmorebmy second sentence was I don't think there is any question that it is off topic

bngtlrs

And on the technical level it belongs to webmasters. Get a new IP and you are fine. The discussion of the case does not belong here at all.

dunsmoreb

@SteveRobillard Sorry, but just to clarify; you think that no question is off-topic on this site?

Steve Robillard

yes we are not the foundation adn have no way of helping him

no I think it is OT

I viooted to close and flagged

dunsmoreb

Ah, I just VTC.

Steve Robillard

why should we get dragged into someone else's war

dunsmoreb

00:20

Btw, what do you think of web => web-browser?

The tag excerpt says its for web browsers.

Steve Robillard

similar to yesterday all browsers are web but not the reverse having said that anything tagged web probably would be OT

dunsmoreb

I'm just saying retagging all those questions as web-browser for now and letting the tag get automatically removed.

Steve Robillard

@dunsmorebno problem with that

dunsmoreb

Cool.

Steve Robillard

playing DA I assume that a question along the lines of I can't access the web would be off topic?

dunsmoreb

00:23

I'm also going to retag chrome => google-chrome.

I would say it depends, if it's

Steve Robillard

like chrom -> google chrome so we don't end up disussing broser chrome

dunsmoreb

> How do I connect to my Internetz.

Then it is off topic.

@SteveRobillard Ya.

But this would be on-topic.

Steve Robillard

even if the issue is hardware related

dunsmoreb

> Why is this <peripheral> not picking up my SSID.

Basically, hardware issues are fine. =P

bngtlrs

Yes, I agree on the hardware-related question, but gaining internet access could be a software issue, maybe using the debian image, that maybe just a RPi-specific version of something on askubuntu or so.

So on the other hand: If you take an question somewhere on SE, it is already a question. So I feel, if you can add "Raspberry PI", do that and discuss the specifics here.

Steve Robillard

00:27

@dunsmorebi can agree with that

dunsmoreb

@SteveRobillard Btw, I copied the tag wikis.

Unless their software issue is an issue because of the RPi components/peripherals then it is off-topic.

@SteveRobillard Btw, I'm going to leave that one question since it is probably going to be deleted.

bngtlrs

No, the official images are basically a distrubution, so issues with that are relevant to RPi.

dunsmoreb

Look at how many devices are supported by Arch Linux ARM: archlinuxarm.org

Just because a question deals with Arch Linux ARM doesn't mean it deals with the RPi.

Steve Robillard

I would vote this way if pushed if the image included a bug in a software component on target if not off topic

dunsmoreb

Which way?

bngtlrs

00:43

If it is an issue that only occurs with the official (it isn't) distro, then yes. See this answer to a python-specific question, linking to other ressources on the web for answers:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/898669/how-can-i-detect-if-a-file-is-binary-non-text-in-python#
Why not have the specific part on rpi and link to the rest for further explanation.?

*recommend

dunsmoreb

That is okay because the problem obviously affects the RPi then.

bngtlrs

But wouldn't such a question/answer 'steal users' from other sites, if the linked resources were questions/answers somewhere else on SE?

dunsmoreb

If it is a problem with an operating system that affects the RPi then it belongs on this site in the first place.

bngtlrs

That is an opinion, one can also have when viewing the situation from the other site. Who gets the question?

dunsmoreb

The site dedicated to the topic?

bngtlrs

01:03

So, the more-specific one. So in this case RPi gets chosen over the SE for Arch (rejected:area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/39466/… ). What if another equally-specific SE (say for the apc.io) gets accepted?

dunsmoreb

No.

Unless the question is about Arch Linux on the RPi it belongs on Unix and Linux

Questions about APC are off-topic for this site to begin with.

bngtlrs

So close RPi. All OS/Programming-specific questions have place somewhere else, and hardware issues can be handled in electronics.se.com.

dunsmoreb

We are not closing RPi. >-<

bngtlrs

Following your argumentation I see no excuse for it's existence.

dunsmoreb

Well then, that is a fault with your logic.

Because according to my logic my argument is pro RPi-site.

bngtlrs

01:16

Yes, one of us most go wrong somewhere.

What about hardware we agreed on earlier? Shouldn't be discussed on electronics.se.com?

dunsmoreb

I'm just curious how you got, this website should be closed, from my argument.

bngtlrs

Thinking into your excludistic mindset, there is just nothing left, that belongs here.

dunsmoreb

Where did I say that?

bngtlrs

About hardware or RPi?

dunsmoreb

What? You can't respond to a question with an incomplete sentence-question.

bngtlrs

01:22

I meant, if os-stuff belongs to unix/linux, programming belongs to stackoverflow, hardware belongs to electronics.se.com. There isn't anything left about the Pi except branding. - Which in turn isn't worth a stackexchange, on its own.

dunsmoreb

If you had bother to read my arguments, you would have picked up that I said non RPi-specific questions should go on other sites.

bngtlrs

Yes, I read you. But all RPi-specific questions are just non-RPi-specific questions applied on a special device and can be answered in general. - If not, create a StackExchange-request.

dunsmoreb

Yes.

And all toiletry-specific items are just non-toiletry-specific items.

What's your point?

bngtlrs

Of course. At last, it's all a matter of physics.

dunsmoreb

Actually, that doesn't even make sense. =/

bngtlrs

01:31

I think it does. Categories are wrong at their very basis, because they are arbitrary. So trying to keep one clean and separated from others is a hopeless undertaking.

dunsmoreb

You just said all x are just non-x questions. =/

Now you're just trolling.

bngtlrs

^^

No I am not.

dunsmoreb

Yes.

bngtlrs

I said. All X-specific questions are just non-X-specific questions (or just questions).

dunsmoreb

We started off talking about an acid test and you have now transitioned the conversation to how the fundamental human behavior of categorizing objects is useless.

bngtlrs

01:33

And therefore physics, if you will.

dunsmoreb

Yes. You just said x = not x.

There is nothing physics about our off topic conversation!

bngtlrs

I said x_RPi.isInstance(x.getInstance(RPi)). :P

dunsmoreb

No you didn't. You said x = not x. =/

We know this because non-x is implied negation.

bngtlrs

You overlooked the part "applied to a special device".

dunsmoreb

That isn't relevant to the equation. =/

bngtlrs

01:43

Yes it is. Because it's more like y = f(x). Like in the RPi-forum question from earlier you can get to the value of y (getting access again) by doing a specific thing f() (asking the mods on that forum) or an general thing, y (changing the IP address).

dunsmoreb

No.

y has nothing to do with this and is to localized.

bngtlrs

I try reformulate: Your RPi-Arch-Question should be moved to a (hypethetical) Arch-se, because it's just arch on a Pi, and that should be moved to a linux-se, because that's just linux in a distro, which should be moved to programming, because Linux is just programming the large, which should be moved to electronic, because programming is just changing magnetic fields on a harddisk. which should be moved to physics, because magnetics is just electromegnetism.

dunsmoreb

Who said the RPi-Arch question should be migrated?

It depends on the question.

bngtlrs

You did.

dunsmoreb

I didn't.

bngtlrs

01:48

Now that'S productive.

dunsmoreb

What is?

bngtlrs

So my point is, if you think, my question about SSH on the Pi does not belong on RPi, nothing really does.

@dunsmoreb your statement

dunsmoreb

No.

Your question is not RPi-specific at all.

bngtlrs

So, gtg, my bed needs me now.

dunsmoreb

READ THE ACID TEST.

bngtlrs

01:50

read it. Think its dumb.

dunsmoreb

Why?

bngtlrs

see you later, maybe

Manishearth

04:50

Ooh, new name... approves

Steve Robillard

05:03

@Manishearth can you take a look at this question I flagged raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/923/…

Manishearth

@SteveRobillard If you want me to take action on it, 'fraid I can't--I'm not an SE employee

But it's off topic

VTC

Steve Robillard

@Manishearthsorry thought you were a moderate and had god like powers

Manishearth

@SteveRobillard I am a moderator

on Chemistry

Which means I have god-like powers on chem.SE

and on chat

Steve Robillard

@Manishearth thanks for the clarification

Manishearth

But, I can fetch an employee for you

One sec

Though really, if you have so many high-reps, you don't need to flag it--wait for the closevotes to pile

Steve Robillard

05:09

@Manishearththanks will do I just hate to see the fights from somewhere else boil over here and sour any chances of building the relationshi between us and ther rasPI foundation

Manishearth

@SteveRobillard Aah

How many close votes does it have right now?

Steve Robillard

@m 3 probably wont rack up any more till the brits wakeup

Manishearth

Aah, like @jivings

Since Jivings has 2k+, he will anyway see the close vote in raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/…

Steve Robillard

@Manishearth yeah not very many americans active around these parts yet

Manishearth

@SteveRobillard Btw, @replies only work if you use atleast three characters

Oh, and happy Independance day!

Steve Robillard

05:24

@Manishearth thanks for the tip Please forive my poor typing I have arthritis which makes it hard to type

Manishearth

@SteveRobillard Oh, no prob :)

Steve Robillard

@Manishearth on behalf of America thank you

Have my headphones on love the qubert style noise in the chat room

Manishearth

You can either stick to three letters (beware, we have two @alex s, and they will both be pinged if you don't include atleast the first letter of their last names)

Or use message replies

@SteveRobillard You're welcome (technically, I'm american too) :)

Steve Robillard

@ManishearthI saw that I thought 1 was going to change their name

@Manishearth technically?

Manishearth

@SteveRobillard OK, not technically, I am american. Born/brought up in Boston, moved to India (Indian Origin)

Btw, @aarthi closed it (I asked her to)

Steve Robillard

05:28

@makes since to me I was born in Florida and spent 5 years living in Montreal

Manishearth

@SteveRobillard :)

Steve Robillard

my Canadian friends have bestowed honoray citizenship on me

Manishearth

Here's how you use message replies:

Hover over a chat message, there should be a row of three icons on the left of it. Click the last one that looks like the return key

It lets you reply to a particular message

good shorthand, as well

Steve Robillard

@Manishearth thanks for another great tip

I will catch you later I am headed off to read and then sleep

Manishearth

@SteveRobillard kk, cya :)

Oliver Salzburg

11:13

Nice timeline :D

finnw

11:25

What should we do if someone posts a question on SO that would be on-topic here? Encourage them to post a duplicate on raspberrypi.stackexchange.com?

Example:

2

Q: Gnustep on Raspberry pi fails 'make check'

I've been trying to compile gnustep-base on my raspberry pi (running arch) and I have ./configure working without errors. It checks a thousand things, most of which mean nothing to me, so I have a hard time seeing if something is going wrong. After compile, I ran the make check and got 31 'dashed...

arm archlinux gnustep raspberry-pi

Jivings

I think we need to avoid looking as if we're poaching questions.

It's still on-topic for stackoverflow.

If it doesn't get any answers then perhaps we could suggest that it might find more interest over here.

finnw

I think we only need to avoid poaching from the official forum...

It's not poaching if it's already on the SE network

I like this one... Some earlier questions could be merged into it:

3

Q: How do I install an OS image onto an SD card?

I have just ordered my Raspberry Pi, and I want to prepare my SD card. How do I install an OS image onto an SD card?

operating-systems sd-card setup

Jivings

@finnw Is that how it's seen?

finnw

e.g. raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/q/19/54, raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/q/2/54

(I've already VTCed those two for other reasons)

Jivings

Okay, wait until we get some mods and we can arrange these things.

Alex Chamberlain

11:31

Which mods migrate?

The source site, or the destination?

finnw

@Jivings: I'll be very surprised if you are not appointed as a mod

@AlexChamberlain: the source.

They don't need to be a mod on the destination site

Jivings

@AlexChamberlain I meant merging.

@finnw Thanks. We'll see. (hopefully soon as we're starting to need some moderation over here)

finnw

@Jivings: btw you are definitely not the Jon Skeet of the RasPi :-)

Jivings

Haha

There have been a few issues recently, I've tried to address them over in this meta discussion:

finnw

(because Jon Skeet was not a beta tester and declined to be a moderator)

Jivings

11:34

1

Q: What should our site maxim be?

Currently, we don't have a centralized set of rules or general rule that we can refer to if a question is off-topic or not. While we do have the proposed FAQ, not a lot of people link to it or use it when discussing why a question is on- or off-topic. Which is why I'm proposing that we have a sit...

discussion questions

@finnw Yeah, I thought he must have.

finnw

Is anyone actually selling preloaded SD cards yet?

RS weren't when I ordered mine (I bought a blank one from them)

Alex Chamberlain

Farnell are I think

Jivings

Anyone here into graphic design?

Alex Chamberlain

@Jivings I'll update that answer in a couple of hours... need to pop out. Bye

finnw

11:51

Just noticed that glockenspiel-playing robot on the foundation blog

Jivings

@finnw ?

finnw

raspberrypi.org/archives/1471

The robot is actually a lot older than the Pi: thebox.myzen.co.uk/Hardware/Glockenspiel.html

Reminds me of this: youtube.com/watch?v=1ZgPx37vT1g

Jivings

That is awesome.

Manishearth

12:14

@Jivings having site overlap issues? Site overlap isn't a problem

Do not ask for an old, upvoted question to be migrated to your sites--it skews the site (let it grow organically)

Jivings

@Manishearth The only issue we're having is overzealous close voting I think.

Manishearth

Site overlap is fine--here are a few general rules for overlaps:

Usually you can see which site a question belongs on by the tone

If it is in a true overlap region(where it is 100% fine on both sites), then leave the question where it is

That's about it

@jivings overzealous close voting? Tell me more...

Jivings

@Manishearth I really don't think there is a problem with site-overlap...

Manishearth

Ah, see the meta post

Jivings

@Manishearth Just not enough thought going into votes I think.

Manishearth

12:18

Kk, I just saw that you guys were confused about overlaps above

Btw, it's not "poaching"

Jivings

In that meta post I was trying to explain that a site maxim doesn't need to be all encompassing and that questions need to be evaluated case-by-case.

Manishearth

A better idea, though, is to comment on that post "Have you heard of raspberrypi.se? You may find it interesting"

Jivings

@Manishearth No? I think someone on SO argued with me because I tried to 'poach' a question.

@Manishearth I agree with this, that was what I tried to suggest.

53 mins ago, by Jivings

If it doesn't get any answers then perhaps we could suggest that it might find more interest over here.

Manishearth

This question seems fine on stackoverflow, but if you are a user of th Pi you may find the new SE site for Raspberry Pi useful :) — Manishearth 24 secs ago

@Jivings never listen to commenters on SO--most have no clue about sitewide policies, regardless of rep. Though note that the poaching thing is just my opinion

Yep, case by case is good

Jivings

It appears there was a big hoo-hah about this question:

2

Q: Are there step by step tutorials for beginners on things like setting up bluetooth or SSH?

Possible Duplicate: Bluetooth keyboard/mouse for surfing internet on my TV Is there a step by step for using a bluetooth keyboard and mouse with RasPi? Or SSH? I've seen the forum posts regarding using BT, and they are not complete enough for someone like me, who is very new to Linux....

setup tutorial

Manishearth

12:25

Brb

Back

Jivings

Hi

Manishearth

As a bicycles.se mod, he ought to know better than to amputate the possible duplicate header

And to get into an edit war

Jivings

Oh well...

I was nothing to do with it, but am still trying to resolve...

Manishearth

I generally don't like "gimme links" questions, though not everyone shares that opinion

Let me read through the transcript, its pretty long :S

Jivings

@Manishearth Yeah, that was the problem.

But it was closed for the wrong reason.

I'm finding it difficult to figure out what he wants.

Manishearth

12:38

Good job calming him down, though :)

Note that CW is no longer considered a way to ask such questions

Jivings

Which?

Manishearth

Blog - Stack Exchange: The Future of Community Wiki

Grace Note on August 19, 2011

When you mark a post community wiki on a Stack Exchange site, that means …

this post can be edited by anyone with 100 reputation

this post does not generate any reputation for anyone when upvoted or downvoted

The main advantage of community wiki — more editing — was nerfed when we introduced suggested edits. With suggested edits, anyone, even an anonymous user, can edit anything — so long as another experienced user reviews and approves their edit.

This leaves many wondering — what’s the point of Community Wiki? …

They haven't specifically mentioned it, but that includes recommendations

Not exactly, actually

Jivings

ok

Manishearth

Even though I don't like "gimme links" questions, I think that it would be OK if he asked for tutorials

Its really borderline, up to the community to decide

If it will garner too many answers--bad

If it will get max five different answers--ok

I know nothing about the topic, so it can't comment further on it

Jivings

Essentially, the question is asking for links. Which to me, seems non constructive.

Manishearth

12:47

Yeah

Jivings

If I wanted links I'd use Google.

Manishearth

Aah right, general reference--so we have two reasons it could be closed

Completely forgot about that

Actually, such questions ought to be redirected to chat

Jivings

Eventually that did happen.

Manishearth

In a roundabout way, yes :)

dunsmoreb

14:18

Hey.

Alex Chamberlain

15:09

Cool story: raspberrypi.org/archives/1515

dunsmoreb

17:02

This looks interesting.

kickstarter.com/projects/1986127174/…

Jivings

What's he put a fan on it for?

Steve Robillard

I would love to see one with a vesa mount on the bottom so I could mount it to the back of my monitor - may just have to get some plexi and dremel out my own

Jivings

@SteveRobillard Great idea.

dunsmoreb

@SteveRobillard It actually has screw mounts on the back it looks like.

Just put some nails in your wall and hang it up like a landline.

Steve Robillard

@dunsmoreb I saw that

whats a landline

Jivings

17:07

@SteveRobillard Phone line.

Steve Robillard

@Jivings oh yeah I had one of those 10 years ago

lol

Jivings

haha

Steve Robillard

have you seen this one i.imgur.com/wKcVY.jpg

Jivings

Haha awesome

dunsmoreb

@SteveRobillard Haha. We still have landlines. =P

Link plx? =P

Alex Chamberlain

17:33

@SteveRobillard shapeways.com/model/526473/…

@SteveRobillard modmypi.com/shop/raspberry-pi-cases/raspberry-pi-case-white

^^ Couple of VESA mounted cases

Steve Robillard

@AlexChamberlain looks like I will be ordering one of these 2 go with the new pi

@AlexChamberlainlike that the prices are becoming a little more reasonable - some of the early cases were selling for more than the Pi

Manishearth

20:15

@steve @alex @duns @jivings Since you have an overlap with Unix.SE, why not create a community ad on their site? See meta.unix.stackexchange.com/questions/814/…

Jivings

@Manishearth Interesting idea, thanks.

Manishearth

Pinging so many of you since I'm not sure who is good at such stuff :p

Jivings

We don't have a logo though :(

@steve @alex @duns anyone any good at graphic design?

@oliv

Manishearth

How does that make a diff? Make yourself a logo ^.^

Oliver Salzburg

@Jivings I have peons to do that :D

Jivings

20:20

Useless!

Get them to do it? :)

Oliver Salzburg

I put up 2 ads here:

31

Q: Community Promotion Ads - 2012

We're opening up the new Community Promotion Ads for Super User, in time for the upcoming year! As well, we're also changing the cycle system - these will now run on a yearly basis, not by halves. What are Community Promotion Ads? Community Promotion Ads are community-vetted advertisements that...

discussion community-ads

Manishearth

meta.chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/131/… <--the jelly benzene is something one of our users created

Create a quirky image (need not be what you want as a final logo) and make an ad

@oliver nice :) No RPi ad, though (then again, I doubt it belongs there. Then again^2, there's a chess.se ad already)

Jivings

6

Q: What should the logo look like?

The Raspberry Pi logo is trademarked by the foundation, so when deciding a logo we should be careful to respect their IP. Also, what design elements and theme could make this site stand out? What should site and logo look like? Trademark Rules There are a few posts expressing hope that the fo...

discussion content design

Manishearth

We(chem) haven't even had that post yet :)

dunsmoreb

Oh god.

Manishearth

20:30

?

dunsmoreb

Lots of text! D=>

Manishearth

On the logo post?

dunsmoreb

No here.

But nobody likes my pictionary logo! D=>

-2

A: What should the logo look like?

How about a Raspberry in the middle of a pie? Kinda like pictionary! Note: This is merely a prototype.

Jivings

Nah

dunsmoreb

@Jivings Nah what?

Jivings

20:31

That's because it's awful.

Manishearth

Na

Jivings

haha

dunsmoreb

It was a prototype thank you very much. Humph.

Jivings

Hehe,

Manishearth

Anyway, time for bed. You two enjoy :)

Jivings

20:32

I have a marketing friend. I'll speak to him about a few logos tomorrow.

dunsmoreb

And then people were like.

> This is not an acceptable logo because it uses a Raspberry Pi trademark.

Jivings

heh

dunsmoreb

And then I was like.

> Do you really think I would advertise a logo with pictures I got off the Internet?

Jivings

And they were all like.

> Yeah

dunsmoreb

No. And they were all like.

> Chirp. Chrip.

Jivings

20:34

dunsmoreb

See! pictionary!

Well, I really need to work on the site. Adios! =D

Jivings

Laters

Oliver Salzburg

1

Q: Are there any good 7" or 10" monitors for Raspberry Pi?

I would like to connect Raspberry Pi to some small and portable monitor, are there any models you can suggest?

hdmi

What was our stance on product recommendations again?

Jivings

8

A: Should we adopt StackOverflow's policy of disallowing recommendation questions?

I'm going to play devil's advocate here, and disagree with the norm. I think that we should allow product recommendations, but only for peripherals (devices that are designed to extend the capabilities of the Raspberry Pi, such as a case/extension board). We should not allow supplier recommend...

> Allowed:

> Q: What's the best X for Y?

Never seen this tab before. It's awesome.

stackexchange.com/users/95447/oliver-salzburg?tab=reputation

Transcript for