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00:04
@psie if A and B are linear operators on a vector space and you can prove that for all v in some basis of that space that Av = Bv, then A = B
in context, and there is always context and you should rarely microscope down to the level of individual words because this eliminates relevant context, to say that "the behavior of R on the eigenvectors of T is uniquely determined" is to say that if R and S are positive operators and R^2 = S^2 = T, and if v is an eigenvector of T, the Rv = Sv
i don't think this is particularly good prose on axler's part, and underspecified use of the term "unique" is maybe often even a hallmark of bad mathematical prose and a source of errors, but in context it makes sense
if you know that "a positive operator that squares to T" has to do something specific on eigenvectors of T, and you know that the eigenvectors of T span the space, then you know "a positive operator that squares to T" has to do something specific on the entire space
to say that [some list of things] uniquely determines an object is to say that if A and B are objects [in the relevant universe, which is supplied by context exterior to this phrasing] that both satisfy the [some list of things] then A = B
here the relevant universe is positive operators that square to T and the list of things is the equations that specify what the operator does to eigenvectors of T
00:48
Let $\tilde{M}$ be the universal cover. You can use a transfer argument to show that $H^n(M;R)\cong H^n(\tilde{M};R)^{\mathbb{Z}/2\mathbb{Z}}$ for any ring $R$ in which $2$ is invertible. The superscript here denotes the invariants with respect to the induced action by the deck transformations. However, $H^n(\tilde{M};R)\cong R$ and $\mathbb{Z}/2\mathbb{Z}$ acts by multiplication with $-1$, so this group vanishes. Since $H^n(M)$ is f.g., this observation implies that it is $2$-torsion.
The (rare) cohomological UCT implies that $H^n(M;\mathbb{Z})\otimes\mathbb{Z}/2\mathbb{Z}\cong H^n(M;\math
admittedly, this probably involves more homological algebra tools than the standard argument, but I like it :)
@Thorgott hmm, that is neat, but the students I'd like to explain this to probably don't know about transfer
then they should learn!
I love transfer arguments, they were one of the cooler parts of my bachelors thesis
perhaps exam season is not the right time to learn about transfer
but I'll consider it, thanks!
yeah, that's fair, but I can't think of a more accessible argument using the standard tools than the one in Bredon/other books
I suppose if $M$ is smooth you can do a geometric argument, but I also suppose that's not what you want
it would be par for the course, but I personally do not want it :)
and the geometric arguments in this course are largely deus ex machina anyways
01:01
I mean, geometric arguments are neat (and I wish I knew more), but they're typically suboptimal for algebraic ends (though can be enlightening in other ways)
 
6 hours later…
07:08
Ha, it seems so-called "Schlafli formula" is about geometric interpretation of the integrated mean curvature.
But still the essence of the integrated mean curvature is from the first variation of the area functional of a hypersurface.
 
1 hour later…
08:36
@leslietownes thanks leslie 👍 I think I understand better now.
 
3 hours later…
11:32
My linear algebra is a bit rusty, so apologies if this is obvious. I'm reading this answer on the polar decomposition of a real matrix. I'm a tiny bit confused by the sentence where the author says $M^tM$ being positive definite and hence has the unique positive semi-definite square root $P=\sqrt{M^tM}$. Isn't it more precise to say that $P$ is also positive definite instead of positive semi-definite?
Let $A$ be a non-empty set. For all $n \in \mathbb N$ let $A_n \subseteq A$ and injective $f_n: A_n \to \mathbb N$ be given. Let $B = \bigcup_{n \in \mathbb N} A_n$. Show that $B$ is finite or countably infinite.
So, we need to find a $g: B \to \mathbb N$ that is injective. So, map $$b_n \mapsto (n, f_n(b_n)).$$ Then we have a $g': B \to \mathbb N \times \mathbb N$ and we know there is a bijection $\mathbb N \times \mathbb N \to \mathbb N$.
Does this argument work?
12:02
@psie I think the answer is positive ;)
12:26
how do some people think about twisted cohomology?
I have a question, is there a continuous surjective mapping $f:\mathbb C^2⟶\mathbb C$ such that the preimage of a point {0} is disconnected?
12:53
@ILikeMathematics can't you have an element that is contained in $A_n$ and $A_m$ for two distinct $m,n$? it's not clear what this maps to under this definition
@hbghlyj sure
I tried to come up with an example $f(z_1,z_2)=|z_1|^2-|z_2|^2-1$
that does not look surjective
yes, so I failed.
start simpler, can you come up with a continuous surjection $\mathbb{R}\rightarrow\mathbb{R}$ such that the preimage of $0$ is disconnected?
13:21
interesting, there is a concept of "higher mean curvature".
13:38
@Thorgott Yes, $x\mapsto (x+1)^3-1$
So, for the original question, $(z_1,z_2)\mapsto (z_1+z_2+1)^3-1$
do you believe natural numbers to be a platonic entity that we are trying to model
like physics models physical entities
this answer gives such vibes to me math.stackexchange.com/a/4676221/445404
nvm only Point A gives Platonist vibes
13:59
@hbghlyj what is the preimage of 0 in this case?
 
1 hour later…
15:06
@SoumikMukherjee It has three connected components $z_1+z_2=0,z_1+z_2=\xi-1,z_1+z_2=\xi^2-1$.
15:45
@psie well, it would be accurate to say that, and it would provide more information to say that. "more precise" almost makes it sound like the person left out something needed to understand the argument, though, which they didn't. it reads like they are implicitly using a result that provides a PSD square root like a black box (i.e. not assuming it to be known a priori that "square rooting" preserves invertibility), and they immediately explain right after why the thing is invertible.
i would file this under, don't expect people to always provide the most amount of information possible at every sentence, or to infer from a phrasing that does not provide more information that more is not true.
as a side note there is an unfortunate amount of variation in terminology in this area. a lot of people i worked with would say just "positive" for "positive semi-definite" and have no special word for the invertible case.
@leslietownes Zero is positive. One is strictly positive. :D
:67048216 Yup. Zero is negative, too.
@hbghlyj I was asking about the real polynomial that you wrote
$+0 = -0 \implies + = -$
$\mathbb{F}_2$ has entered the chat
@BenSteffan Only if you are bad at math.
Yes, I would argue that $\mathbb{F}_2$ is bad at math.
+=- implies I=void
15:53
$\mathbb{F}_2$ is a story of betrayal
at least to the algebraic topologist
@SoumikMukherjee preimage of 0 is 0
And that's not disconnected, right?
For the real variant, we can take $|x+1|-1$
Ok
I have trouble understanding the step

> Consider taking the coefficients of the matrix $\bmod 3$ (treated as elements of $\Bbb Z[\sqrt2]$). This has the effect of simply reducing the coefficient of an element of the form $\Bbb Z\sqrt2$.

in https://math.stackexchange.com/a/1493249/745350). Could someone explain why can one drop $\sqrt2$ from the entries $\pm2\sqrt2$? Is this a ring homomorphism?
@XanderHenderson i refereed a paper once where the author had made a mistake, "proving" a lemma for all positive operators (all "P >= 0") by observing it held for P = 0 and then proving it for "P > 0" (which in context assumes P to be invertible). i.e. forgetting about the case where P was not invertible and also not zero (which as it happens was the only interesting case). it was a relatively easy fix, "happens to the best of us" kind of thing. but very much in this vein
sorry, $|x+1|-1$ is not suitable either, since it is not surjective
15:59
people who work with "operator inequalities" all the time are maybe a little too used to thinking in their own language. another one is, sometimes writing A >= B when A and B are individually not self adjoint but A - B is. there be dragons.
@leslietownes Yeah, there are interesting subtleties there.
@leslietownes Oof... I've never seen that, but I buy it.
I'd do that.
@SoumikMukherjee What about $x\mapsto x\sin(x)$?
@hbghlyj I don't know what you are looking for, but you just ruled out another function because it is not surjective...
or is $x$ complex?
Oh, wait.
You put an $x$ in there.
It is hiding.
Nevermind.
I still don't know what you are trying to do.
The original problem is to a continuous surjective mapping f:C^2⟶C
such that the preimage of a point {0} is disconnected. I got an example $(z_1,z_2)\mapsto (z_1+z_2+1)^3-1$. But @SoumikMukherjee was asking me about another question, is there a continuous surjective mapping f:R⟶R
such that the preimage of a point {0} is disconnected. I got an example $f(x)=x^2(x-1)$.
@XanderHenderson I think the function $x\mapsto x\sin(x)$ is surjective
i think so too
16:08
@hbghlyj It is. I didn't see the $x$.
Note the "Nevermind".
@hbghlyj That was Thorgott who asked you that question, I asked you about the validity of the first polynomial that you wrote.
I consider partitions of n=5, more precisely I consider the partition $\lambda=5$. I consider the young tableau 1,2,3 in the first row and 1,4,5 in the first column. Now I want to compute the row and column subgroup which are the subgroup of S_n with map every {1,...,n} into an element standing in the same row respectively the same column. I got that the row subgroup of this tableau is $P_\lambda:=\{(12),(13),(23),(123)\}$ and the column subgroup is $Q_\lambda=\{(14),(15),(45),(145)\}$
is this true?
16:24
user: those aren't subgroups of S_5. you need the to add the identity element and (132) to your candidate P_lambda and the identity and (154) to your candidate Q_lambda
but the subgroups P_lambda and Q_lambda are certainly generated by the elements you list there
@leslietownes ah I see thanks!
 
2 hours later…
18:21
@leslietownes but what is $P_\lamda$ if I don't know the young tableau, so if I only know $\lambda=(2,1,1)$
i guess the row subgroup would be a two-element subgroup of S_4 containing the identity and some transposition (corresponding to whatever entries you put in the row with two boxes), but you wouldn't know which one
18:36
ah okey so I ton't know it explicitly
yeah. you would know what it is abstractly as a group, but not know which subgroup of a concrete realization of S_4 that it corresponded to
Thanks
I've been staring at this answer for 15 minutes or so, and I can't figure what the author means by $T_x$ in $\mathrm{Id}_{T_x M}$ and likewise $T_{f(x)}$ in $\mathrm{Id}_{T_{f(x)} N}$. First the subscript is used to denote a set, but I don't think $T_x M$ also means a set. This feels like an IQ test...
18:51
without clicking, T_x M would often denote the tangent space of a differentiable manifold M at the point x (which implicitly and without clicking on anything is an element M)
which is among other things a vector space
and Id_{T_x M} would be the identity operator on that vector space
aha! :D
similarly T_{f(x)} N would be the tangent space of N at the point f(x) of N
where now i can infer that f is a function from M to N
ok, makes sense
clicking in, that seems to be what's going on
they're expressing a special case of what some of us might call the chain rule in notation that some people would use for differentiable manifolds
alright :) I have never really thought about differentiable manifolds before, so hence my inexperience
18:55
that's the world in which "diffeomorphism" has meaning
or at least a world in which that word has meaning
ok 👍 there are many worlds in mathematics to explore
or not to explore
its entirely fine to ignore those questions/answers if you don't know or care what a diffeomorphism is
(as i frankly do not)
Can you have an automorphism of a surface that is not a homeomorphism yet the surface is preserved?
what is an "automorphism" to you?
the answer is yes or no depending on your answer to that question and nothing else
19:12
I have a question about differential forms: Why $\omega=\frac{1}{x_{n+1}} \mathrm{~d} x_1 \wedge \mathrm{~d} x_2 \wedge \ldots \wedge \mathrm{~d} x_n$ is a non-vanishing n-form on $S^n$?
here is an example of an automorphism of a surface (what it means to me): take a plane, $P$ in R^3 equipped with a normal bundle $N$, and remove a line $l$ lying on $P$. This disconnects $P$ into 2 components $P_1,P_2$. Flip the plane $P_2$ s.t. $N$ reverses orientation (formally, $N$ is reflect by 180 deg.). Re-insert $l$. This transformation process is such that the identify map on $P_1$ doesn't match up with the reflected plane $P_2$ negating any sort of homeomorphism in the standard
sense, but the surface at the end still looks like a surface after these transformations
so it must be an automorphism (but not a homeomorphism)...?
well, an example of something is not a definition of something
i'm not sure i can infer from that example what an automorphism might be to you
For my question, I think) Let $P=(x_1,x_2,\ldots,x_{n+1})$ be a point on $S^n$. Then
when definitions are in flux a helpful question is, what difference would it make whether something is an automorphism or not
leslie: there's this exercise in Spivak's Calculus on Manifolds. I'm wondering whether it is stating the same thing as in the link above. $f'(a)$ in Spivak's means the Jacobian of $f$ at $a$.
> Suppose $f:\mathbb R^n\to\mathbb R^n$ is differentiable and a has a differentiable inverse $f^{-1}:\mathbb R^n\to\mathbb R^n$. Show that $(f^{-1})'(a)=[f'(f^{-1}(a))]^{-1}$. (Hint: $f\circ f^{-1}(x)=x.)
What I'm doubting is that Spivak does not require that $f$ be a $C^1$ diffeomorphism, i.e. not continuously differentiable, only differentiable.
19:24
there is an enormous amount of variation from reference to reference in what exactly they assume about their manifolds. i don't see the question posted on main linked above as even being express about that. it kind of doesn't matter, the question is just the chain rule. if you have the chain rule then you have that.
@leslietownes Let me meditate on that for a while
ok, I see
the answerer assumes the smooth context. that is more than necessary for the chain rule to hold, but it is certainly enough, and the asker seems to be basically asking a question that is answered by "the chain rule" whatever the hypotheses may be.
yes, smooth is more than enough probably
i don't mean to imply that definitions and hypotheses don't matter, but at the level of generality that people ask questions on MSE it is often the case that it sort of doesn't matter. i.e. if you aren't asking some question that depends on the details of the setup, then someone can assume whatever setup they like that is compatible with the question, and answer it in that setup, and everybody goes away happy
but again, a running theme in a lot of these questions is, if someone states that X is true in Y context, they usually aren't also stating "and by the way X is never true outside of Y context." that is overwhelmingly not how people write mathematics
"if Y, then X" is not usually not a transmission of secret signals about what happens if not Y
it says nothing about what happens if not Y, and should generally be interpreted as authorial silence without any secret implication whatsoever about what may happen if not Y
20:18
hi :-)
X4J
X4J
Can someone help me find a group $G$ and a subgroup $H$ of G s.t there exists $g \in G$ with $gcd(o(g), [G:H])=1$ whereas $g \notin H$.
I know that for a normal subgroup $H$, one cannot find such an element
@SineoftheTime could you help me with an exercise pls
@mo-_- I don't have much time but write it
ok :-)
Consider the endomorphism $f: \mathbb{R}^3 \to \mathbb{R}^3$ such that:

$$
f(v) = A v
$$

with $v \in \mathbb{R}^3$ and

$$
A = \begin{pmatrix}
1 & 0 & 0 \\
-1 & 2 & 0 \\
-1 & 0 & 2
\end{pmatrix} \in M_3(\mathbb{R}).
$$
determine the matrix associated with the endomorphism with respect to it
i have the system of ind. lin. vectors : (1,-2,1), (1,-1,1),(0,0,1)
i was doing it a way, but its too long
do you know a fast method to do this ?
can i do v1 = (1,-2,1) , v2 = (1,-1,1) , v3 = (0,0,1) and then do
20:30
I'm not sure I understood; $A$ is expressed using the canonical basis and you have to find $A$ when the basis consists of the $3$ vectors you wrote?
After completing the system of linearly independent vectors {(1, −2, 1), (1, −1, 1)} into a basis of R3, determine the matrix associated with the endomorphism with respect to it
its says so
i choose as third vector e3 = (0,0,1)
So what you found should be the new basis both in the domain and in the codomain?
i think so it says f : R^3 -> R^3
yeah then the procedure it's a bit lengthy
yes , but there are more ways to do it , could you suggest the easy method ?
20:35
but it's standard so you can see an exercise and copy-paste but changing the numbers
do you know a sources i can follow ?
any linear algebra book?
no i mean online
@SineoftheTime this
probably it's on the main site
you can find plenty of examples
mmm
20:38
I assume you're familiar with the change of basis matrix
yes
Hi
You can find the change of basis matrix and its inverse and then multiply
@Binky hi
I went through the exercise
Can i show my work?
@Binky really ?
@Binky yes
20:40
I don't know if I did well
see this for instance
@Binky can you send the jpg
mm
@Binky i dont understand here
@SineoftheTime thanks ill take a look
It should describe the procedure I have in mind
20:46
@mo-_- I calculated (A*)^t A
@SineoftheTime but cant i do just f(ei) = c1e1 + c2 e 2 + c3e3?
$f(e_1) = A \begin{pmatrix} 1 \\ -2 \\ 1 \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix} 1 \\ -5 \\ -3 \end{pmatrix}$
$f(e_2) = A \begin{pmatrix} 1 \\ -1 \\ 1 \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix} 1 \\ -3 \\ -3 \end{pmatrix}$
$f(e_3) = A \begin{pmatrix} 0 \\ 0 \\ 1 \end{pmatrix} = \begin{pmatrix} 0 \\ 0 \\ 2 \end{pmatrix}$
Did you read the link I sent?
not yet, but I was thinking about this method
it seems faster than binky's one
$\begin{pmatrix} 1 \\ -5 \\ -3 \end{pmatrix} = c_1 \begin{pmatrix} 1 \\ -2 \\ 1 \end{pmatrix} + c_2 \begin{pmatrix} 1 \\ -1 \\ 1 \end{pmatrix} + c_3 \begin{pmatrix} 0 \\ 0 \\ 1 \end{pmatrix}.$
$\begin{cases}
c_1 + c_2 = 1, \\
-2c_1 - c_2 = -5, \\
c_1 + c_2 + c_3 = -3.
\end{cases}$
and repeat for $f(e_2)$ and $f(e_3)$
$A' = \begin{pmatrix}
4 & 2 & 0 \\
-3 & -1 & 0 \\
0 & 0 & 2
\end{pmatrix}.$
im pretty sure this is correct
21:02
please read the answer I sent since explains what's going on. Once you understand, you'll be able to conclude if your method is correct
21:26
@Thorgott one can condense this down a bit to a point it's actually presentable to people without preexposition to transfer
X4J
X4J
Does it follow by Sylow theorem that any finite group G can be decomposed into a multiplication of disjoint sylow subgroups such that each subgroup corresponds to a disitinct prime number dividing the order of G?
oh, actually you can do this without the orientation covering at all
somehow I missed the argument in Hatcher
X4J
X4J
Oh no probably only when each sylow subgroup is normal
you can distinguish $\mathbb{Z} / 2^k$ from $\mathbb{Z} / 2$ by taking coefficients in $\mathbb{Z} / 2^k$, duh
21:51
I'm reading about the change of variables formula. There's a lot going on in the proof and the author has this auxiliary lemma where they use a so-called "mean value inequality". I would have to type a lot if I'd provide all details, so I try to keep it short by risking missing some details.
We have $C^1$-diffeomorphism $\varphi:U\to D$ on a compact set $K$, where $K,U,D\subset \mathbb R^d$. The author simply says.
> [Fix $\epsilon>0$ small.] Since $\varphi'$ is continuous, the mean value inequality allows us to choose $\delta>0$ small enough so that $\delta<\frac{1}{d} \mathrm{dist}(K,U^c)$ and, for every $u_0\in K$ and every $u\in \mathbb R^d$ such that $0<|u-u_0|<d\delta$ we have $$|\varphi(u)-\varphi(u_0)-\varphi'(u_0)(u-u_0)|<\epsilon|u-u_0|.\tag1$$
Note, $\varphi'(u_0)$ is a matrix. I think $(1)$ is just a restatement of the definition of what it means for $\varphi$ to be differentiable, but what is meant by the "mean value inequality"? I've tried to look this up, but haven't found anything sensible (nor do I really understand how the author is using it).
22:02
$K$ is a compact subset of $U$, by the way.
it is not helpful to divorce things from the references they are in, but if i just heard in a vacuum the terms 'mean value inequality' i'd assume it was something like, |f(x) - f(y)| <= [something involving a derivative of f] |x - y|.
the one variable MVT is that if f is nice enough then f(x) - f(y) is literally equal to f'(c) (x - y) for some c between x and y. this stops being true very quickly in the multidimensional context but once you start putting on norms and relaxing literal equality to inequality you still get useful stuff.
yes, but there is no mean value inequality for vector valued functions of a vector variable, as far as my understanding on my search on the internet has taken me
well your internet search should take you further, or perhaps you should read further into the reference that said "mean value inequality" without comment. i don't know.
rudin's PMA gives an example of something worthy of being called a mean value inequality although i forget if it is in the body of the text or the exercises.
@leslietownes it's theorem 5.19 I think
there is no literal mean value theorem for vector valued functions of a real variable, generalizing the 1d MVT in the literal sense i mentioned above. you should perhaps reassess your views as to the rest of what you just said.
i dunno. i don't have rudin's PMA nearby or on this device.
there absolutely are multivariable statements that generalize things that would be consequences of f(x) - f(y) = f'(c) (x - y) if something like that were known to be true as it is often known to be true in the 1d context.
22:10
@BenSteffan I mean, taking coefficients in Z/2 already gives you the 2-torsion component is Z/2, but by which argument are you excluding non-torsion and p-torsion for odd primes p?
I'm using a theorem of hatcher which says that if $M$ is not $R$-or. then $H_n(M; R) \to H_n(M, M \setminus \{x\}; R) \cong R$ is injective with image $\{r \in R \mid 2r = 0\}$
@X4J if this is the case, the group is in fact isomorphic to the direct product of its sylow subgroups
which, in my defense, I wasn't aware of earlier
but that's homology, how do we get cohomology?
$H^n(M) \cong \operatorname{tors} H_{n - 1}(M)$ and $H_n(M; \mathbb{Z} / k) \cong \operatorname{Tor}(\operatorname{tors} H_{n - 1}(M), \mathbb{Z} / k) = {}_k(\operatorname{tors} H_{n - 1}(M))$
+ that a non-or. manifold $M$ is $R$ orientable iff $R$ has characteristic 2
22:16
isn't that just the argument from Bredon tho at this point?
well it's not too far off I suppose
Bredon just bathes all of this in a heap of notation I don't care to parse through
I might still present the transfer argument because I can make that self-contained :)
that's fair, Bredon can be heavy on notation, but it's the same argument once you unwind it
Bredon proves generally that $H_n(M,M-A;G)$ is isomorphic to the compactly supported sections of the orientation sheaf with coefficients in $G$
@BenSteffan of which this is a consequence
yeah, I realize
YTM is in Stockholm this year
maybe I should go...
managed to draw this in tikzcd, only took an hour
oh, that's sick
22:28
I do feel sick after doing it
(especially the part where I temporarily broke my TeX installation cause I hadn't updated it in two years, but needed to so that I can get the package that draws the triple arrow)
@BenSteffan sounds fun
there's also this newton.ac.uk/event/ehtw02
but that probably requires you to pack as suit so
Blumberg as organizer
I should read his equivariant homotopy theory notes at some point
look at the poster
hmm why is Connor Malin listed as notre dame
I haven't figured out how this attribution system works I guess
that's where he did his phd, no?
it is, but now he's here at the mpi

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