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18:00
always remember that 11d supergravity with m2/m5-branes is obtained from lorentzian supergeometry by unraveling the bouquet of Whitehead towers
@Thorgott that is pure comedy ahahah
hey
@SineoftheTime are you free ?
18:12
$\mathcal{M} = \begin{pmatrix} -2 & 1 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 & 2 \\ 0 & 0 & -1 \end{pmatrix}$

After verifying that it is a diagonalizable matrix, determine the corresponding diagonal matrix $D$ and the corresponding diagonalizing matrix $P$.
I have a doubt about the final part, but I'll write down what I did.
Actually, can I take a photo of my sheet and send it here?
if it's readable, yes
Or is it better if I write the steps in chat?
send a photo
what's your doubt?
18:17
@Thorgott Just a non-related question: does nLab possess a respectable reputation in the math environment?
I have an R studio exam tomorrow :(
R studio is cool
My wife is a physicist, and they has a statistics exam with Excel once
Any ideas which LCH spaces $Y$ satisfy this? Let $Y\to Z$ be a perfect map onto LCH space $Z$, then $Z$ is zero-dimensional
@SineoftheTime More than anything else if this procedure is correct (without checking calculations etc.), and then the choice of the values of the free variables, for example I chose $x=1$, for the 1st system however I was wondering if
@Pizza It would still be fine. The matrix $P$ is not uniquely defined
18:20
That is, theoretically the Matrix P should not have a row of all zeros, since a diagonalizing matrix must be invertible and therefore have full rank.
Yes, the procedure seems ok
So I have to choose the right eigenvectors
there's no "right" eigenvector
what do you mean by the 'right' eigenvectors? you have to choose nonzero vectors, that is baked into the definition of eigenvector
@Claudio yes, to anyone in the relevant fields
18:21
Eigenvectors with different eigenvalues are always linearly independent
other than that there will be no uniqueness, and always at least some freedom of choice
In the first system, you could have choosen $(a\,\, 0\,\, 0 )^T$ for $a\neq 0$
Sorry, I meant that I initially wrote $v_3 = \begin{pmatrix} 1 \\ 1 \\ 0 \end{pmatrix}$
@Thorgott ok, that's good news I guess
Are you referring to the order?
18:22
I'm not sure what you'd be looking for there, though
@SineoftheTime no, by writing v3, like this, then a row of all 0's was formed
but $v_3$ is not an eigenvector relative to $\lambda_3=-1$, is it?
I wrote it before, then I corrected it as in the photo
you get $x=y=-z$
@Thorgott Not me, but there's a user in the hbar whose studies things from there and he usually comes up with the most abstract, weirdest things I've ever heard of and it's absolutely hilarious hahaha
18:24
Yes I basically chose $z = 0$
if you choose $z=0$, you get the zero vector
yeah, that's the impression the nlab often leaves
it's only a good resource for someone who has already acquired a decent degree of maturity
@SineoftheTime Ok but then given that $-z = x = y$ , then if I choose x = 1, also y=1 , so z must be -1, or can I also choose for example z = 2?
Once you choose a value for $x$, the values of $y$ and $z$ are determined
@AlessandroCodenotti I am wondering which LCH (or Tychonoff) spaces $Y$ have the property that if $Y\to Z$ is a perfect map onto LCH (or Tychonoff) space $Z$, then $Z$ is zero-dimensional. For example, if $Y$ is countable, then $Z$ must also be countable, so zero-dimensional.
18:27
So $x=1\implies y=1 \implies z=-1$
$z=2 \implies y=-2\implies x=-2$
@Thorgott lol
@Thorgott sounds like Wikipedia
@SineoftheTime Oh ok, but if for example the variable x doesn't appear in the system, can I assign any value to it, but without creating a row of all zeros?
decent degree of maturity= double Fields medal
nah, Wikipedia is very accessible, it's just not always optimal
18:29
Pedagogically?
@Pizza for example, for $\lambda_1$ you can't choose $x=0$ since you get the zero vector
Oh ok yes that's what I meant
Thanks
So now I have to calculate $P^{-1}$ , or can I just leave it like this?
It depends on the exercise
18:32
to verify $M = PDP^{-1}$
then, you have to compute the inverse and expand the matrix product
@SineoftheTime It wasn't written about this
I bought Dieck, Hatcher and Bredon's books on algebraic topology. Time to learn some more algebraic topology!
@Pizza what do you mean?
@think_meaning_builds and sometimes substantially
18:34
@SineoftheTime To calculate $P^{-1}$
Oh well, I'll do it anyway
If you have to verify $M=PDP^{-1}$ you can compute the inverse
Or verify that $MP=PD$
Yes, only it wasn't required, I wrote it to find out if it was necessary or I could leave it as it was
That is, It didn't ask me to do this verify
But anyway, I'll try to do it
If during the exam you have spare time, you can check
18:37
this is the kind of thing you should ask an instructor, if you are able. if you are following a standard recipe in this realm, an equality like M = PDP^{-1} will follow from the way you are identifying P and D, without you performing the computation.
the question for the instructor is whether independently verifying that is a part of what you are supposed to do
if someone just popped up out of nowhere and told me to compute that, i would absolutely compute it. in context, it seems like slightly unnecessary work because all of the previous stuff is set up so that that equality will hold.
But isn't this done to see if the diagonalization is correct?
yes, that's the question for the instructor
i don't know. i personally wouldn't ask my students to verify something like this
And so I can do it to check if I did the exercise right
It's like asking: after computing the antiderivative of a function, should I differentiate it to see if the result is correct?
we all have finite life spans and asking someone to manually invert even a 3x3 matrix is a nontrivial investment in that
18:43
So, if I have time I'll do it, otherwise I won't.
Jan 28 at 0:39, by leslie townes
every morning i get up at 4am and diagonalize two symmetric 10x10 matrices by hand #grindset
Since the exercise doesn't even require it
there are 20 users online :O
I just defeated a GM in bullet
18:47
What is the record of online users here?
@SoumikMukherjee Compliments
@SoumikMukherjee you madman :)
soumik, well, you clearly cheated by playing better moves
next time, lose like an honest person
What is the term for a
Which football team do you support?
18:51
what is the term for a math object that can be viewed as being in different categories depending on application?
pretty sure there's on term for this
@leslietownes In the first two games12, I got totally crushed
modular that strikes me as an unusual question, as i wouldn't think of 'being in [x] category' as intrinsic to any mathematical object
@SineoftheTime this is so funny
someone plays Pokémon TCGP?
19:00
no (t me)
I am giving a presentation to some folks on my paper - which slides do mathematicians usually use?
@SineoftheTime Do you have consoles or a PC
I have a PC
and old consoles
Wii and Nintendo ds
I want those slides
@SineoftheTime Ah ok, how many fps is it?
19:07
True mathematicians use blackboard
Otherwise I didn't see anything but beamer in years
And a couple of presentations with handwritten slides
@Binky don't know
@SineoftheTime is It a gaming PC ?
Maybe you have a laptop
yeah
I only use it to study
19:08
@ModularMindset This is beamer
@VladimirLysikov ah perfect thanks
yes, specifically the madrid theme of beamer
@SineoftheTime Oh okay
Anyway
@ModularMindset So email the presenter and ask.
@ModularMindset Beamer.
19:24
why is this not 1/10
i mean if you just visually perceive the blue portion of the square, it's larger than 1/10
@Binky Why would it be 1/10? What led you to that conclusion?
it isn't an accident that all of the candidate answers are in the realm of "gosh, i dunno, about a third? maybe more maybe less?"
Ah but it's 1/3
if you subdivide the square into 9 squares (like a tic tac toe kind of thing) the blue region feels like it's covering at least one of them. that's my argument why it isn't 1/10
putting visual intution to words is always a challenge
or that it has enough area to cover at least one of them, if it doesn't literally cover at least one of them
19:34
So, by recognizing the 2:1 division and the symmetry of the triangles within the square, you can deduce that the shaded area is $\frac{1}{3}$​ of the total area?
Can you? Can you be more specific?
Divide the square into three triangles by looking at the lines AE and BD, which intersect at point F. These lines split the square into three triangles: the shaded triangle ABF, the triangle BCF, and the triangle DEF.
Because CE is twice as long as DE, triangle DEF is half the area of triangle BCF. This means that triangle BCF is twice the size of triangle DEF.

Together, these three triangles cover the entire square. Since triangle DEF is one-third of the area of the square, triangle BCF must also be one-third. This leaves the shaded triangle ABF as the remaining one-third of the square.
It Is clear ?
I often see memes and jokes about $\sqrt{-1}$ not being "real". I've seen part of the movie The Well 2 (Netflix), the fat dude is a mathematician that was troubled about $\sqrt{-1}$ not being real and stuff... I can't take this anymore
complex numbers don't exist :D
Why people care so much about $\sqrt{-1}$ when ALL numbers are "imaginary"? (just abstract concepts without any concrete/material reality? Counting is also abstract, etc nothing real about it)
19:42
because you learn about $\mathbb{R}$ in school (to some extent), but not about $\mathbb{C}$
and also because $\mathbb{C}$ does behave differently in important aspects to $\mathbb{N}$, $\mathbb{Z}$, $\mathbb{Q}$, and $\mathbb{R}$
They did a scene with the fat guy writing $\sqrt{-1}$ on the wall inside the prision, and then crossing it with an "x" mark, like "not real" lol so cringe
this is very niche marketing for an obscure film on netflix
@BenSteffan Yeah, but like, all number sets are created so solve some problem. Of course $\mathbb{C}$ is more sofisticated, but they are all abstract, from the very beginning ($\mathbb{N}$)
I'm a non-mathematician. I don't know what a set is.
that is a fair point, i am not sure two exists
19:45
I know what a number is, intuitively
It's things like 2, or $-5$
or maybe $3/7$
or maybe $\pi$, which people in school told me was a number
@BenSteffan hahaha Neither do I, and I think I don't care. I just need to know what I can "do" with sets and elements, not what they "are"
you're missing my point by a mile
a what? :)
a kilometer, sorry :)
@leslie townes No! Two doesn't exist. Otherwise, show me where it is.
19:47
not sure that exists either
@BenSteffan I don't know what a mile is lol
sure it does! pulls out a very long yardstick
kilometerstick, if you want
@BenSteffan Well, that won't be "two". It can have two meters for example, but it's not two.
Two is the abstract concept inside our heads, and it is only there, nowhere else.
go stare at shadows on the cave wall plato :^)
they have two in a hall in france, under glass
you can see it
19:51
No! That's the point! There is no platonic world where math concepts lie. Waiting to be discovered. They're just "in our heads", like, we create them, but they don't really exist
@Derso Lies!
Three is a very real number.
One and two, also.
I'm not so sure about anything else.
@leslie townes I would love to see two! lol
@XanderHenderson that's the number of my braincells
you have to pay more than two euros to get in, that's the worst joke of all
Jun 23, 2018 at 20:31, by Xander Henderson
Personally, I am three-ist. I don't believe that there is any number larger than 3.
19:51
@Xander Henderson If humans didn't exist to count them, would three still exist?
@Derso I don't think that real requires some reality outside of human culture and cognition.
Rather, I think it comes down to the level of cognition.
I see
do you believe in the 2nd dimension?
One, two, and three are subitizable for nearly everyone. They are, like, lizard brain math. Beyond that, it gets hard.
@Derso This is also true of cars.
(say)
in that sense mathematics is very real
19:54
@BenSteffan But cars are created, right?
yes
it is also true of trees
So...
Of course, I joke a bit when I say that I am a three-ist, but I think that there is a nugget of truth there. And I think that it is helpful, when teaching, to help students to see this.
or of stones
no, cars are discovered
19:54
haah
Honestly, once you have accepted the "real" numbers, complex numbers are easy.
What the hell is a real number?
A Dedekind cut? What's that?
@leslie townes Cars are clearly discovered lol
An equivalence class of Cauchy sequences of rational numbers?!
WTF?
@Xander Henderson Exactly! Now, are you going to tell me the Dedekind cuts can be found out in nature? C'mon...
cars were invented
19:56
Math is helpful, but it's not out there
@Derso It's in your head.
Yup
I've saw the number 2 walk on the sidewalk just the other day. You're telling me math is not out there? I saw it with my own two eyes
@Jakobian Just how drunk were you?
Or maybe that fake sugar you were worried about yesterday really was a problem...
19:58
When I see those pictures, about golden ratio everywhere, I also get so annoyed, because it's so "forced"(? I don't know how to say this in English)... I mean, it's aproximated, not exact so... It's simply not there
he's smoking it
I wonder if more people would have been platonists if they have near-death experiences in which they saw the "math world"
he took my advice
@leslietownes I guess he took your advice.
Drat... too slow.
don't cook coffee kids
19:59
@Derso golden ratio is a really good marker. if you're watching something and somebody says "golden ratio" you just switch away
2
that and fractals
@BenSteffan Really, anything people don't understand well.
there's nothing intrinsically special about fractals
@BenSteffan "Oh, there are circles everywhere in nature" No, there are not!
Though I think Mandelbrot has a lot to answer for vis-a-vis the popular misunderstanding of fractals.
@XanderHenderson yes, but for some reason when it comes to math it's often one of these two
20:00
is there anything special about fractals?
Abstract circles are perfect. In nature we have just some figures that induces the notion of a perfect circle, but it is not there
@ModularMindset No.
abstract circles are ugly!
In fact, it can reasonably be argued that a generic set is fractal, and non-fractal sets are special.
I like my circles with corners
@XanderHenderson yes, but only if you have a proper definition of "fractal"
20:02
honestly I've become very anti-fractal over the years. Maybe that's because I just don't see eye to eye with them
to your average joe a fractal is something "self-similar" (in a further unspecified sense)
It can be reasonably argued that a generic function is nowhere differentiable, and a differentiable-somewhere functons are special
@BenSteffan Sure. But that's useless.
@Jakobian Yes.
One doesn't even have to argue that.
It is a simple fact.
Anyway, independent on the belief, people should just stop bullying $\sqrt{-1}$. It is as real (or not) as any other number
@Derso It isn't as real as 2.
But it is just as real as $\pi$.
20:04
@XanderHenderson Why?
The next number is always just a field extension away.
Real numbers are not real
@Derso Because 2 is a lizard-brain number, and $\pi$ is not.
I guess romans (if I'm not mistaken) also didn't want to accept zero as "real"
@BenSteffan The quaternions would like to have a word with you.
20:05
The next number is always just a ring extension away.
@Derso And the Greeks didn't really accept $\sqrt{2}$.
And negative numbers are a problem, too.
@BenSteffan Here come the octonions...
tbh I find calling the quaternions "numbers" a bit of a stretch
@XanderHenderson But it is in the mind of the lizard! It needs to be processed by a brain anyway, in order to "exist". So...
that's cause you can't have negative things in the real world. Show me a negative cow
Still as real as $i$
20:06
@Derso I already addressed this argument.
14 mins ago, by Xander Henderson
@Derso I don't think that real requires some reality outside of human culture and cognition.
@Derso so does literally anything else lol
What is "real" (as far as I am concerned) is encapsulated by the distinction between what is subitizable, and what requires further construction or cognition at a higher level.
@Ben Steffan Yes! We can't tell anything to be real, just to be real as we perceive things, through our cognition. We will never really know anything
1, 2, and 3 are definitely real. 47 and -8 and $\pi$ definitely aren't.
There is some fuzziness around 4.
@Derso Picking up Husserl would do you good, kid
20:08
@XanderHenderson Counting from 1 already involves the sofisticated concept of bijection. It is not that simple
I've given a definition of what I consider to be "real", and explained the consequences of that definition. But you seem to be attempting to impose your idea about what is real on me.
It's actually amazing that a lizard can do it
@Derso Who said anything about counting?
@Derso this is straight up false
you do not need a concept of bijection to count
@BenSteffan Yes, you do.
20:09
no you don't lol
How not?? lol
burden of proof is on you. why do you need it?
I wonder if you both mean the same thing by "counting"?
I wonder that, too
and by "bijection"
you don't need to know how to count to perceive distinct objects
20:11
How does the shepper count the sheeps? You guys probably know this fairy tale
Personally (and it pains me to say this), I think I agree that counting fundamentally does require some kind of one-to-one correspondence.
The whole idea of counting is to compare the sizes of groups, which contains an implicit one-to-one correspondence between these groups.
@XanderHenderson Of course it does!
Natural numbers are not trivial at all
@ModularMindset No, but counting is about more than just "perceiving distinct objects".
@XanderHenderson Exactly, "one stone for each sheep"
But then, the shepper got tired of collecting stone and started to giving names for different "collections" of stones
20:14
lol
Exactly. A fish, fish, fish; fish, fish, fish.
Then just saying six is so helpful. But you need to invent this "name"
This word, concept, whatever
20:32
my brain hurts, what do you think they mean here
afaik order doesn't matter when quantifying over the same things
i.e., $\forall a,\forall b,\exists c:$ is the same as $\forall a,\exists c: \forall b$
@Obliv delta does not depend on the point
Is that wrong
@Obliv Totally
In order to be continuous, given an $\epsilon>0$, you need to find a $\delta>0$ such that around the point $x$, something happens. For uniform continuity, this $\delta>0$ can be "uniformly" chosen, i.e. it fits for every point, not just around $x$.
The idea of uniform continuity is that it gives a uniform delta. Usually, to show that a function is continuous, you show that it is continuous at each point in its domain. To do that, for each point in the domain, you show that, given some epsilon, you can find a delta such that blah blah blah.
But the value of delta corresponding to a particular epsilon may depend on the point being studied.
A function is uniformly continuous if, given some epsilon, it is possible to find a uniform delta which makes all the good stuff happen, independent of any particular point in the domain.
20:37
Just take a simple statement like for all a, for all b, exists c such that c>a+b. This is true. But if you change the order it will be false.
a,b,c are reals
So is it like continuity but for the whole domain of the function & its image
@SoumikMukherjee good example
I forgot I actually learned that last year, whoops
oh wait
uniform continuity implies function is linear or constant?
@Obliv No, impies it is continuous
This part of the graph if uniformly continuous
But if you go ahead, this $\delta$ won't work anymore
the delta neighborhood has to be $\forall \varepsilon >0$ though
20:49
Oh, no.
Given an $\epsilon>0$, then bla bla bla
You must find a $\delta = \delta(\epsilon)$ for the uniform version. In the (only) continuous definition, we have $\delta = \delta(\epsilon,x)$
I'm not disputing the definitional differences b/t continuity & uniform continuity (anymore), I just mean that for a nonlinear/nonconstant function don't we have $\delta$ dependent on $\varepsilon,x$
@Obliv Not necessarily, no.
$\cos$ and $\sin$ are uniformly continuous.
(for example)
hmm ill have to think about it i gotta go to class now ty for the help
And any continuous function on a closed interval is uniformly continuous.
closed and bounded for those, like me, who play lose and easy with intervals.
20:55
Ah, yes. Indeed. Boundedness is important.
Why don't we just say "compact". :D
Compactness is, really, the underlying reason, anyway.
21:43
If we have two incomplete measures $\mu$ and $\nu$, associated to two measure spaces. Is it always the case that $$\overline{\mu\times\nu}=\overline{\overline{\mu}\times\overline{\nu}}?$$Here overline denotes the complete measure.
@psie Well, what do you think?
Well...
@XanderHenderson I guess the question boils down to; is a complete measure (or measure space) unique?
Okay...
That is kind of an empty statement.
You want to show that two measures are the same (or different). How do you do that?
What are the elements of $\overline{\mu\times \nu}$?
Sorry... not that question...
(Not quite, anyway---let me formulate a more correct question...)
Sure :)
The difference between $\mu\times \nu$ and $\overline{\mu\times\nu}$ is, fundamentally, that $\overline{\mu\times\nu}$ is defined on a larger sigma-algebra.
Otherwise they agree.
Ditto $\mu$ and $\overline{\mu}$; $\nu$ and $\overline{\nu}$; etc.
So, first question: what sigma-algebras are these measures defined on?
(which is what I meant by the above)
If the sigma-algebras are different, then you know that the measures are different.
21:55
@XanderHenderson Ok, so let us define $(X,\mathcal M,\mu)$ and $(Y,\mathcal N,\nu)$. So for $\overline{\mu\times\nu}$, the domain is $\overline{\mathcal M\otimes\mathcal N}$ and for $\overline{\overline{\mu}\times\overline{\nu}}$ it is (I think) $\overline{\overline{\mathcal M}\otimes\overline{\mathcal N}}$.
You should probably spend some time deconstructing those sets, and understanding how they are defined.
Right now, you are just kind of parroting back definitions.
What is $\mathcal{M}\otimes\mathcal{N}$? What is it's completion? How are they different?
Get your pencil out, and do some stuff.
 
2 hours later…
23:43
Is there a general guiding principle for taking a geometric object and letting the object be a point in some space?
for example say my geometric object is a cube with different colored faces and each lattice point in a 10X10 grid is a specific configuration of the cube at this point.
there is nothing stopping anybody from defining whatever you want, the hard part is proving useful results about whatever 'spaces' that result from that
the challenges you run into are very subject and purpose specific
it isn't inherent in math that interesting properties of one thing be a model for 'nearby' or 'similar' things of the 'same type,' although a lot of stuff maybe could be regarded as trying to make that happen with limited success
23:58
I was thinking along the lines of the objects on the grid form discrete groups, so I can use geometric group theory to study the grid as a Cayley graph, where each point represents a group element or cell. Transformations of geometric shapes in the grid then correspond to group actions, which could potentially lead to a moduli-like space with group-theoretic structure
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