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00:29
@psie it doesn't matter that much, but Folland most likely did this to avoid the issue with $1$.
yeah probably
namely if we were putting things in $[0, 1]$ when $A$ is infinite and in $[1, 2]$ otherwise, then $A = \emptyset$ and $A = \mathbb{N}$ would map to $1$
but you can just put things in $[0, 1]$ when $A$ is finite and in $[1, 2]$ otherwise, or just replace $[1, 2]$ with $[2, 3]$
really it doesn't matter
ok, I see, there are a couple of variants of this injection
I suppose so
my favourite one would be just to map $A$ to $\sum_{n\in A} (2/3)^n$
this way you have a bijection from $\mathcal{P}(\mathbb{N})$ to the Cantor set
and - as it turns out, it's even a homeomorphism
ah yeah, I think I've seen this one before
00:36
Yeah and I think it's easy to see that it's an injection
maybe go with this instead?
haha, to be honest I like this way more, but then you have to introduce the Cantor set...and well, that's a new section :)
you don't have to
and it would be, essentially, the same argument
basically if $A\neq B$ all you have to do is consider least natural number which belongs to one but not the other
I see
sorry I wrote it wrong
$\sum_{n\in A} 2/3^n$
If $n$ is now the least such that it belongs to one set but not the other, say to $A$ but not to $B$, then $g(A)\geq \sum_{x\in A, x < n} 2/3^x + 2/3^n$ yet $g(B)\leq \sum_{x\in B, x < n} 2/3^x + \sum_{x\geq n+1} 2/3^x = \sum_{x\in A, x < n} 2/3^x + 1/3^n$
and this shows that $g(A) > g(B)$, so injectivity follows
no Cantor set needed
indeed, nice
 
3 hours later…
03:48
Squared modules :D
Note to self, do not mix pineapple juice with whiskey. Tastes really bad
@Shaun expect update on that ArrowGlue project later on. Just been busy with work stuff, and also have to reconsider things using PEG grammars instead of EBNF, for grammar ambiguity reasons.
 
1 hour later…
05:12
Does anyone have a reference to the proof that the model categories of CGWH and sSet are Quillen equivalent? I can only find the one between Top and sSet
 
3 hours later…
08:15
0
Q: Suppose a die is rolled repeatedly. Let X be the no. of rolls needed to get all the faces appear for the 1st time. Find the probability mass function.

Thomas FinleyLet a die be such that $P(\{i\})=P_i, i=1,...,6.$ Suppose the above die is rolled repeatedly and independently. Let $X$ be the no. of rolls needed to get all the faces appear for the 1st time. So, $\text{Min}X=6.$ Find the probability mass function (pmf). I tried solving the problem as follows: L...

Any suggestions for this will be really very helpful!
08:59
Hii
Does anyone know if overleaf has a function to see the latex text while you write the code, without having to click "Recompile" every time?
@Pizza if you click on the triangle near recompile, there's the option auto compile
09:16
@SineoftheTime Yes, I know that log is a multi valued function.
@SineoftheTime yes, found it thanks
Do i have to set the compilation mode to fast? now it is on normal
up to your preference
I keep it normal
10:19
0
Q: Why am I getting two different answers when the countour integral is performed in two different ways?

Thomas FinleyIf $C$ is the circle $|z|=2,$ taken with positive orientation then show that $\int_C\frac{2z}{2+z^2}dz=4\pi i.$ I tried solving the problem as follows: Let $I=\int\frac{2z}{2+z^2}dz.$ Then, $$I=\int_C \frac{1}{z-i\sqrt 2}dz+\int_C\frac{1}{z+i\sqrt 2}dz=4\pi i.$$ This is because, for any complex n...

This confusion still haunts me :/
@leslietownes and @XanderHenderson Can I get some help regarding this, please? :?)
@SoumikMukherjee Also, I'll be glad if you please take a look at this.
@Debug Awesome :)
11:07
@ephe isn't the model structure on CGWH Quillen equivalent to that on Top?
nlab seems to say so ncatlab.org/nlab/show/…
11:38
@SineoftheTime 👍
yeah, I tried explaining this a couple days ago (except I then had a minor doubt, but looking back, there was nothing to doubt)
but the Quillen equivalence between sSet_Kan and CGWH_Quillen also follows verbatim for the same reasons as the Quillen equivalence between sSet_Kan and Top_Quillen
if you want a reference, I recommend Chapter 8.6 in Heuts-Moerdijk's Simplicial and Dendroidal Homotopy Theory
(in general, an excellent book to learn about simplicial sets and model categories, you can simply ignore the half of the book concerned with dendroidal sets)
@Pizza you can use TeXstudio if you don't have internet connection
(note that the book uses, as many other sources do, $\mathbf{Top}$ to denote CGWH rather than the ordinary category of topological spaces)
the mere statement (without proof) can also be found in Chapter 7.10 Hirschhorn's Model Categories and Their Localizations (he, too, uses $\mathbf{Top}$ for a convenient category)
12:01
I'm having trouble finding the integration extremes of this integral: $\iint_D x dxdy$ where $D$ is the domain between the bisector of the first quadrant, the unit circle and the parabola $y = \frac{x^2}{2}$
did you draw $D$?
Yes, I'll send the photo
It's this part here
The green part is just the inside
I don't mean the whole green part
you have two options
Do I need to split the domain into 2 parts?
that's the first option
12:06
ok , the second ?
do you see that the first quadrant is divided in $3$ parts?
the part of the first quadrant inside the unit circle
In Folland's text in proving $\operatorname{card}(\mathcal P(\mathbb N))=\operatorname{card}(\mathbb R)$, he constructs a surjection from $\mathcal P(\mathbb Z)$ to $\mathbb R$ by $g\left(A\right)=\log \left(\sum _{n\in A}2^{-n}\right)$ if $A$ is bounded below and $g(A)=0$ otherwise. I don't understand how this is surjective. In particular, why would $\sum _{n\in A}2^{-n}$ cover every positive real number?
@SineoftheTime yes
you can apply the additivity of the integral
yes, you have to compute $3$ integrals, but that does not seem difficult
But isn't the domain just the part between the parabola and the straight line?
do you mean doing integrals outside the domain?
doing three integrals and then subtract
but option one is easier
maybe yes
do you have an idea on how to divide $D$?
@SineoftheTime Yes I have to divide up to the part where the function above doesn't change, right?
I don't know how to explain it well
Like that
12:21
looks good
Ah so I found the intersection points first
did you find the range of $x$?
Yes I found that $x$ varies between $0$ and $\sqrt{-2+2\sqrt{2}}$
(the entire radius of x)
now you're left with the bounds of $y$
I found the first integral: $\int^{\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}}_0 \int^x_{\frac{x^2}{2}} x dydx$
12:33
correct
The other one is instead $\int_{\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}}^{\sqrt{-2+2\sqrt{2}}} \int_{\frac{x^2}{2}}^{\sqrt{1-x^2}} x dydx$
So: $\int^{\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}}_0 \int^x_{\frac{x^2}{2}} x dydx + \int_{\frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}}^{\sqrt{-2+2\sqrt{2}}} \int_{\frac{x^2}{2}}^{\sqrt{1-x^2}} x dydx$
13:04
Revisiting some stuff I haven't looked at in a long time. I wonder, in this definition, do they
a) demand that $a_k$ is nonzero only for a finite number of negative indices $k$ for the sum to converge?
b) why require $a_k\neq B-1$ for an infinite number of positive indices $k$?
@psie how does he define sum over infinite sets. The infinite subsequential series? If so check if this thing is conditionally convergent
Oh wait nevermind
@nickbros123 good question. I have no idea how he defines it :) but note the expression with the log thing and the sum is only defined for sets that are bounded from below.
so I'd assume $$\sum_{n\in A}2^{-n}=\sum_{n\in A_1}2^{-n}+\sum_{n\in A_2}2^{-n},$$ where $A_1$ is a finite set of negative integers and $A_2$ a set of positive integers.
13:19
Oh yeah, this is just binary representations, kinda i guess? Every real no between 0,1 has a binary representation (may not be unique) that is a sum of this form $\sum \frac{1}{2^k}$. So every real has a non empty inverse map under this map g
Real between 0,1 that is
Oh wait u can extend this to any real also
Since negative indices allowed
yeah
any positive real
Yh right
 
1 hour later…
Mad
Mad
14:29
@Mad just like that :)
What is the difference between MO and MSE?
@TheEmptyStringPhotographer MO is for research level mathematics
MSE is for everything else
@Mad not but really what's the issue? the rhs is obviously contained in the lhs and for the converse you use density of $\mathbb{Q}$
14:36
Note that MSE stands for Meta Stack Exchange, and Math SE is for the math site. You'll confuse some people using MSE to refer to Math (or, at least, you will confuse me).
@psie this condition not only ensures convergence of the sum (if you cared about that), but tracks what we usually think of as decimal expansion. e.g. while you can certainly consider 'bi-infinite' sequences of digits 0-9, the sequences that represent real numbers have finitely many [nonzero] digits to the left of the decimal point
@XanderHenderson really
I've never seen anybody use MSE to refer to meta
huh
good to know
@BenSteffan You probably don't get out of the Math ecosystem very much, then.
14:37
that would be correct
Ben is an interior point of MSE
@psie i see no requirement that a_k not be B-1 for infinitely many indices, only a name for when this does happen. the likely intent is just to establish language for talking about the situation where two different base b expansions represent the same real number. one will be "proper" and the other one won't
@SineoftheTime haha, yes
e.g. 1.0000... and 0.999.... arise from different sequences of digits, and happen to represent the same number, the first one is proper and the other one isn't
I always use MSE for math stackexchange
14:42
@Thorgott Oh yes the explanation was very clear. I just wanted to add a reference to this to the report I am writing and the sources I could gather only show it for Top. But now that you mention that they use Top to mean CGWH, maybe that's what they do in the sources I have. Thank you!
Mad
Mad
@BenSteffan I do not understand how to use the density to show the left is in the right
oh i mean i think iactually do
Thanks
@Mad pick an element on the left, say $y_1$; this will be greater than $a - g(y)$ by definition, so there is some $r \in \mathbb{Q}$ with $y_1 > r > a - g(y)$, so it's in the right, qed. :)
welcome
@ephe yeah, using Top for CGWH is very typical in this area
if your source ever says geometric realization preserves finite limits (or just products), it's working in CGWH
@Thorgott ooh okay I see, that makes sense. thanks again
15:13
@XanderHenderson ☠️ oh no
That means I am so wrong for so long
@leslietownes ah ok, makes sense. So in the "proper" expansion, the representation is unique, whereas in the "improper" one, we'd have duplicate representations of some numbers. Grazie!
15:32
psie: well, you will always have the issue of duplicate representations (for some numbers anyway). the notion/language gives you a way of talking about it, and getting uniqueness if you want it. (e.g. you could just as easily make expansions unique by choosing the non-proper expansion when you have to choose)
ah ok, I see
this nonuniqueness issue, and the arbitrariness of the choice in making a representation unique, are at least one of the background unconscious vibe reasons why most analysis books and other math books do not deal with decimals all that much, outside of one-off exercises
in particular, you don't commonly find books defining real numbers in terms of digit expansions, although you could certainly take that approach. you end up having to spend a lot of time proving that what you're doing isn't meaningfully affected by either the lack of uniqueness or the choices you make to enforce uniqueness
and once you're "identifying" elements of a large space of sequences with one another, you might as well just use all cauchy sequences, so you can e.g. define the arithmetic more easily :)
15:51
cool :)
I am quite confident that the set $B:=\{x=(x_1,x_2 \cdots) \in \ell_2: |x_j|<\frac{1}{j} : j \in \mathbb{N} \}$ is not open. (It definitely is not closed im sure) How do I show this
nick: the sequence of all 0s is in B, yes? given epsilon > 0, can you find an element of ell^2 within epsilon of (0,0,0,...) that is not in B?
rightt, given epsilon>0 we find 1/j<epsilon and set that jth coordinate to be 1/j?
with 0s everywhere else? yes, something like that would work (you could also put a value like that in any 'later' coordinate)
if you fix some number less than epsilon (whether it has the form 1/j or some other form) and look at the sequences you get by having 0s everywhere except in one coordinate, where you put that fixed number, all of those sequences will be within epsilon of (0,0,...), but at most finitely many of them will be in B, in particular, there will be a lot of them that aren't in B
as a generalization of your idea
yh this works, thanks
16:07
note that while your example is certainly enough to show that B isn't open (because it shows that B has a single point, (0,0,0,...), that is not an interior point), you could use a very similar idea to show that B has empty interior
i.e. you can do a similar thing starting with any point of B, not just (0,0,...)
16:56
@leslietownes nice!
what's the proper way of saying an iterative function "indexes" over some set? Or is that okay?
like $\bigcup\limits_{n=1}^{\infty}$
Hi 👋
does it make sense to say it's indexed over $\mathbb{N}$ or it "iterates over $\mathbb{N}$"?
obliv: that example doesn't make it fully clear. what is an example of a situation where you'd want to use that language? could you not just use series when you use series?
obliv: i might refer to that union as being "indexed by" the positive integers, or as a union that employs the positive integers as "an index set"
but your use of the term "iteration" maybe suggests that there might be more going on here than just indexing, however, hence my follow up questions
ah okay, that makes sense.
Well is an iterative function indexed over a set by definition?
I was just trying to remain general, not pointing to a specific type.
17:07
Can anyone help me with this integral? $\int \frac{x}{\sqrt{1+x^4}} dx$
hint: $x^4=(x^2)^2$
yeah, i'm not sure what work "iterative" is doing in that question. just in the specific context of union, i think of union as something that might be a binary operation in some contexts (where you union a pair of sets), or might accept an arbitrary set (perhaps regarded as a family of sets, but in any case, not necessarily a set with two elements) as an input in other contexts
i don't see the definition of union is being inherently 'iterative' in any informal sense
although i guess when you're indexing a union over positive integers, there's a natural enough notion, pun intended, of "well, first you could union sets 1 and 2, then add in 3, then add in 4, then add in 5, ..."
i don't see that being baked into what a union is
I see $\bigcup\limits_{n=1}^{\infty}$ of some indexed set, say $A_n$ as the iterated union $A_1\cup A_2\cup\dots\cup A_{\infty}$
if M is a set, \bigcup M is, by definition or something close to it, {y : exists x in M, y in x}. if M is a set of the form {A, B} then this definition of \bigcup M specializes to the usual definition of A union B. if M is a set of the form {A_1, A_2, A_3, ...} it's what you might write \bigcup M as bigcup_{n=1}^infty A_n
but the ordering of positive integers or the idea of taking increasingly big members of a set of subsets of the positive integers is just our own mental layer on top of that
it's not like \sum_{n=1}^{infty} a_n (for a sequence of real numbers a_n) where the ordering and the sequence of partial sums "really matters" to the definition
@SineoftheTime Thanks I tried this way, is it correct? $u = x^2, du = 2x dx, x dx = du/2$
17:16
the union operation doesn't care about that
I see what you mean
do you know the antiderivative of $\frac1{\sqrt{1+t^2}}$ ?
arcsinh(t)?
@leslietownes Actually, I don't quite grasp what you mean by $\bigcup M$ being that definition you wrote. Maybe it's a bit too abstract for me to see
17:18
this is actually a good counterpoint example because if you want to define sums of arbitrarily indexed sequences of real numbers, you very much do have to add structure that gives you orderings on the index set, or some exhaustion of the index set by subsets, to have that general notion specialize to the usual one of series convergence
@SineoftheTime So the result is $\frac{1}{2}$ arcsinh(x²)
if you don't add that structure in, the notion you will likely arrive at will likely specialize to the notion of absolute convergence
@Obliv maybe worth having a think about this! if not now some other time. it can sometimes be a useful perspective
How to write it in LaTeX?
17:20
latex does not have the command for arcsinh
does mathjax do \operatorname
actually, the expression "arc"sinh is not fully correct
it does
$\arcsinh(x)$ $\operatorname{arcsinh}(x)$
@leslietownes Yeah, we're just doing very handwavy beginner things in this intro to real analysis course. Though to be honest, I doubt we'll cover convergence, orderings, set theory, to any appreciable depth.
17:21
@SineoftheTime whomst amongst us is fully correct, we are all imperfect people navigating the ruined remnants of a fallen world
I feel like I'm always right between things being too simple/I've seen it before and something on the other side of that.
I know it's necessary, but I'm not a fan of the handwavy arguments and things we just assume to be true, without any rigorous proving.
Like how limits work
obliv: one useful aspect of the union (however defined) is that the union of a sequence of sets doesn't depend on the ordering of those sets, even if we naturally think of the objects involved in the union (and/or the union itself) as the result of some iterative process
@Obliv why's it necessary?
So we cover all of the topics deemed necessary in this 1 semester intro course
17:25
a fun integral to do in the spare time: $\int_1^{\infty} (x+2/t)\frac{e^{-tx}}{t^2}dx$
You can spin your wheels very quickly if you get into the nitty gritty of proofs and logic.
@leslietownes Iterative processes. It always makes me wonder: there's no "passing of time" in math. A sequence, it's already there, the whole sequence. It's our thing to think as $x_1$ comes first, then AFTER we have $x_2$, etc
You can cover a fair amount of ground in a semester, however
even rigorously
Is $\int{\dfrac{x}{\sqrt{{x}^{4}+1}}}{\;\mathrm{d}x} = \frac{1}{2} \operatorname{arcsinh}(x^2) = \dfrac{\ln\left(\sqrt{{x}^{4}+1}+{x}^{2}\right)}{2}$?
for an example, in this problem set, we have $\bigcap\limits_{n=1}^{\infty}(1-\frac{1}{n},1)$ which should be $\varnothing$ but idk what the justification is supposed to be because I never learned it.
17:28
$\sinh^{-1}(x)=\log(\sqrt{x^2+1}+x)$
@Pizza don't forget $+C$ :D
@Obliv but to justify this you only need the definitions...?
@BenSteffan yeah not really in undergrad, for most schools.
@Obliv I have no problem telling students "This things is true, but proving it is beyond the scope of this class."
obliv so, baked into the definition of \bigcap, we see that an element of that intersection would be a real number x satisfying 1 - 1/n < x < 1 for all n. so far so good, but specifically why that can't happen might well depend on how you axiomatize real numbers
How can we justify $\lim\limits_{x \to 0}(1-x,1)\cap$ (for example)$(0,1)$ is $\varnothing$ and not $\lim\limits_{x \to 0}(1-x,1)$ or something
17:31
if your course's treatment of reals assumes or proves that the reals are 'archimedean' that is where i would look for an explanation
In an elementary calculus class, it is generally not possible to give a rigorous treatment of the real numbers, so the extreme value theorem kind of needs to be taken on faith (since it relies on the least upper bound property). I also don't have a problem completely skipping epsilon-delta definitions for limits (though I think that if you talk about the epsilon-N definition for sequences, you can give a rigorous treatment).
The key is to be clear about what the omitted results are. It shouldn't be "hand wavy" so much as "[this] is out of scope, you are going to take the statement of the theorem on faith".
okay nvm, I see what you mean. If we take $\lim\limits_{x\to 0} 1 - x = 1$ then yeah, that follows. I just don't ever know when it's okay to "simplify" limits or whatever.
@leslietownes i don't know the treatment yet.
very early in an analysis class you will find yourself assuming or proving that 1/n goes to 0 as n goes to infinity. that is basically what you need
the non existence of a goofy "real number" W with the property that 1/n > W for all n and yet W > 0
I was just thinking of a purely set theoretic definition of $\mathbb{R}$ and all of its relevant properties, which I've heard isn't fun to do (by Ted)
@leslietownes You mean that Woe-mega is not a real number?!
17:36
I'm not convinced that any of this is out of the usual even for a rigorous course. Finding your way around tools and definitions is often left to the exercises.
At least that's the case here.
@XanderHenderson Woe-mega is a real pain in the neck sometimes, but is not a real number
@SineoftheTime yep!
$$ \int \frac{1}{\text{cabin}} \,\mathrm{d}(\text{cabin}) = \text{house boat}. $$
that's famous
17:43
is it common to use superscript C to mean complement of a set in $\mathbb{R}$?
@SineoftheTime I don't claim it's original.
I recall that in the intro to math reasoning class I took we used overlines to mean complement of the set in the relevant universal set.
@Obliv That's the established usage
well, perhaps it's better to say that if you write $A^C$ then the set you're taking the complement in is understood from context
which would be the case if you e.g. started out with "let $A \subseteq \mathbb{R}$ be a subset such that..."
18:01
there certainly isn't a universal (pun intended) convention for set complementation
i've seen superscript C before, dunno how common of a choice it is
it's fairly common where I go to school
but I think most people prefer to write it out as a set difference
@Thorgott you wouldn't happen to know of a reference for a modern treatment of Atiyah duality, would you?
I must admit I've never even heard of Atiyah duality
I see
it's a fun little statement proved by Atiyah in '61 that allows one to prove a version of PD for extraordinary cohomology theories
basically it says that $M^{-TM}$ is equivalent to $DM$, the Spanier-Whitehead dual of $M$ whenever $M$ is a closed smooth manifold (here $M^{-TM}$ is the Thom spectrum of the virtual bundle $-TM$ over $M$)
18:19
hmm, that sounds almost like it should be true by definition
Atiyah's proof is relatively short
but it is geometric
ah, I suppose it's not so clear when $M$ is not stably framed
I have no idea how this particular sort of thing is supposed to translate into the modern setting
for a start, what's a smooth manifold
that's not a homotopy invariant notion
I mean, there's an $\infty$-category of smooth manifolds alright
but idk what Spanier-Whitehead duality really is
oh, it's just $F({{-}}, \mathbb{S})$
internal mapping spectrum into the sphere spectrum
well that's the modern perspective
the old perspective is a little more... varied in definition
18:39
@BenSteffan neat
my understanding of spectra is still pretty stuck in the 60s
you should be able to set this up even in the 60s
using the only tool available for such things in the 60s: brown rep theorem :)
on an unrelated side note I learned from the green book that apparently people even set up things as basic as products of spectra via brown rep back in the day. the classical setting really doesn't sound fun to work in
Just trying to get a sense of first impressions from people: what does the word "formula" mean?
@XanderHenderson car racing
(Don't think about it, don't look it up in a dictionary, just give a gut reaction.)
xander: you don't want anything from me because i've been coopted by the establishment and go to the conclave, but i think of "symbolic expression" when i hear that absent context
18:44
@BenSteffan Funny.
Useless, but funny.
thank you :)
more seriously, first thing that comes to mind is "equation"
@leslietownes Coopted by the establishment is fine. :D
Would anyone object if I claimed that a formula is a mathematical model, expressed in notation? (@leslietownes I think that this aligns with your idea of a "symbolic expression", with a bit of "well, okay, but an expression of what?").
"mathematical model" sounds so grand
In other words, a formula is a symbolic representation of some (appropriately approximated) real world phenomenon.
I don't think that matches 100% with how people use it
18:49
@BenSteffan Can you explain where you think the differences lie?
my hunch is that people do use it as a synonym for equation at least some of the time
@BenSteffan yeah, I could probably do it, I just haven't
@XanderHenderson you wouldn't say this of all equations, because they can be "math internal"
@BenSteffan Well, I disagree here, in that a formula usually expresses the idea that it is an equation which means something. I wouldn't call $3x + 7 = 2y - 8$ a formula, for example.
you wouldn't, but other people might
is the point
18:51
@BenSteffan Honestly, I don't think so?
I suppose any equation is a formula, but I also wouldn't consider $3x+7=2y-8$ an equation (hot take)
a general fact, rule, or principle expressed in usually mathematical symbols
@Thorgott Nonsense. :P
It has an "=" in it. It's an equation!
"Formula" seems to connote something more than mere "equation".
@XanderHenderson I read that to support my position over yours :P
let me put it like this: a formula is anything that expresses two things (predetermined, though possibly parametric) are equal
18:53
@Thorgott Right---it expresses a relationship between two or more variables. Symbolically.
It... models... that relationship.
@XanderHenderson so this is a formula, then?
it does precisely this
express a relationship between two variables
the thing is that $3x+7=2y-8$ is not really a well-defined mathematical expression if $x,y$ are not some things that are already defined
@BenSteffan I don't like it as a formula, because $x$ and $y$ have no meaning.
and if they are already defined, it's a formula
if it's not, you're really just abusing notation to talk about $\{x,y\vert 3x+7=2y-8\}$
@Thorgott Yeah, something like this. A formula contains more information than just an equation.
18:55
my internal conception of a formula, no context, would probably exclude equations from being formulas
either side of an equation can be a formula
now here's a hot take
@leslietownes Ah, that is interesting. So the formula for the area of a circle is not $A = \pi r^2$, but simply $\pi r^2$?
I mean, $F-E+V=2$ is also an equation
but it's certainly a formula
@XanderHenderson yes, exactly
and to thorgott, no, very much not
@leslietownes Interesting.
18:56
this is just my own headspace we're talking about
@leslietownes I think that my own thinking runs kind of along those lines. A formula is whatever comes after the "=" when you write $f(x) = \ldots$.
Maybe that is why this book is bothering me.
like, there's the quadratic formula, and it's the right hand side of that shit, not the whole shit
(This book defines a formula to be a "general rule or principle stated mathematically".)
if you will pardon my french
I think that I am going to avoid the word "formula" in this section. I don't like it. It doesn't have a very precise meaning in mathematics, and the book's use of the word doesn't even seem to be very consistent.
They give 9 examples of the form $y = f(x)$, then finish with $\alpha + \beta + \gamma = 180^\circ$ (the angles of a triangle add to two right angles).
I think that I'll just teach the whole thing as "models".
Or "relationships". Or something.
Thanks for the input. It helped to clarify my own thinking.
 
3 hours later…
21:53
I posted about this recently, but in proving $\operatorname{card}(\mathcal P(\mathbb N))=\operatorname{card}(\mathbb R)$, one can construct a surjection from $\mathcal P(\mathbb Z)$ to $\mathbb R$ by $g\left(A\right)=\log \left(\sum _{n\in A}2^{-n}\right)$ if $A$ is bounded below and $g(A)=0$ otherwise.
I have doubts about whether or not $A\mapsto \sum _{n\in A}2^{-n}$ is well-defined or not. Call this map $f$. I recognize $f$ as the binary expansion of a real number, but it was some time ago I looked at this stuff. Basically I want to verify that for the pairs $(A,r_1)\in f$ and $(A,r_2)\in f$, we get $r_1=r_2$. What are some ways I can do this?
I don't see what's there to have doubts about, you have unambiguously defined the action of $f$.
true :D I'm just worrying about stuff like 1.000... and 0.999....
but maybe I shouldn't, since these are equal
If there was a set that mapped to 1.000... and 0.999... and, in some universe, maybe far far away, 1.000... was not equal to 0.999..., then we'd have a problem.
22:16
@psie The problem is that $1.000\ldots$ and $0.999\ldots$ are just symbols. They are both defined in a particular way (in terms of decimal expansions, which are in turn defined by series), and those definitions ultimately require that they are equal to each other. So this "other universe" of yours would simply require that the notation $1.000\ldots$ and $0.999\ldots$ be defined in a different way.
22:27
ok, fair. I need to go back to the definitions. The definitions. My kingdom for a definition!
22:48
@psie you said well-defined. Any series of non-negative real numbers has a sum (possibly infinite), no matter the way you order them, equal to supremum over finite sums
you don't need to concern yourself with decimal expansions and what-not
you've written down a well-defined sum and that's that
decimal expansion is not real and it cannot hurt you :^)
@BenSteffan Decimal expansions are very real. But they needn't be rational, and are often quite un-natural.
boo 👎
@leslietownes Aw... I thought my comment was rather transcendental.
22:53
at least they're not too complex
@BenSteffan It does help that you don't have to use your imagination.

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