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00:00
it's also interesting to ponder how different polynoimal functions and polynomials are when $R$ is a commutative ring that's not necesasrily a field
hmm I never thought about that
00:17
For integral domain it should be similar I suppose
for infinite integral domain this will be an isomorphism, and for finite this will be a field
00:43
@Thorgott Interesting question: What are rings which are quotients of subrings of fields?
I.e. $B/I$ where $I$ is an ideal of $B$ and $B$ is a subring of a field $F$
@Jakobian every ring
yup
Subrings of fields are integral domains, and any ring is a quotient of an integral domain
by the way, I don't have a good answer for the question I posed
@Thorgott this one?
yeah
as soon as you leave the world of domains, life becomes messy
it's easy to cook up both examples where it works and where it doesn't
a neat tangentially related fact is that any infinite non-domain admits a polynomial with infinitely many zeros
00:58
I know quaternions as the non-commutative example here, with $x^2+1 = 0$ being the whole $2$-dimensional sphere
I'm not really willing to think about non-commutative rings
though the quaternions are worth thinking about for other reasons
me neither but thats because I'm not sure how to define polynomials in general in the non-commutative setting
in the same way as in the commutative one
just the universal property gets worse
but then how do you multiply them
by assuming $x$ commutes with every element?
and then evaluation is taken only with elements of the center?
that's a bit too restrictive
yeah
this is really an issue with the codomain, not the domain though
even if $R$ is commutative, you can only evaluate polynomias in $R[X]$ at elements in an $R$-algebra $S$ that commute with $R$
this makes sense: an $R$-module structure on an abelian group $A$ is the same thing as a homomorphism $R\rightarrow\mathrm{End}_{\mathbb{Z}}(A)$ and extending this to an $R[X]$-module structure is the same thing as picking an $R$-linear endomorphism of $A$ as which $X$ acts
01:35
@RandomVariable: How goes it?
How are you? @robjohn
Okay. Just got back from the park with the dogs.
coolio
how are you?
Fine, thanks.
01:54
@robjohn I've been better. What kind of dogs do you have?
they're both mixes of many kinds. mostly german shepherd and american staffordshire.
02:12
@robjohn I like dogs, but the dogs that live next door to me are crazy. They would attack me if I got too close to them.
@RandomVariable Mine are pretty friendly
@robjohn Something weird is going on in that house that causes the dogs to be hyper and overly aggressive.
02:35
@robjohn According to this post, developers are actually looking at the MathJax wrapping bug on the Activity page. The bug has been around since they changed the Activity page over 2 years ago. I still doubt it will be fixed.
 
5 hours later…
07:43
Hey all! Random question can the problems and solutions of ethics be regarded as a problem in second order logic? (I'm using second order logic in the Penrose Lucas kinda arguments) ... Apologies if this is too vague
07:54
Or maybe third order
08:16
@Jakobian yeah I thought the same. That's a definition of conditioning. I was confused because I misunderstood that $X\in\mathcal{H}$ is an assumption (which is not but rather $E(X\mid\mathcal{H})\in \mathcal{H}$). I can just conditioning on any sub-sigma algebra
@BalarkaSen True but I meant the numbers. There're two numbers I can control for each cusp.
@BalarkaSen Yes I know but it wasn't quite clear to me...
 
2 hours later…
10:02
 
1 hour later…
11:09
Is there a Wieferich-prime $p>2311$ with respect to base $2024$ , in other words a prime $p>2311$ satisfying $$2024^{p-1}\equiv 1\mod p^2$$ ? I found no more upto $9\cdot 10^9$. The only "Intersting" such prime is $2311$ which happens to be a primorial +/-1.
11:51
@onepotatotwopotato It's $(p, q)$, where the Dehn filling slope is $p/q$.
The fact that the two sliders seem to vary over all reals and not just coprime integers I think means that you're looking at some modification of the triangulation in $\Bbb H^3$ which need not necessarily descend to a manifold unless $(p, q)$ are coprime integers.
Hit the button "make manifold" to "smooth it out"
You see the big spherical nodes in the inside view right? Observe that those seem to have some kind of white markings on them which look like lines. If you vary the coefficients the white markings become spirals.
This is because the spherical nodes are the cusp neighborhoods, and the white lines are the slope of the lines getting killed under Dehn surgery.
If it's not rational, you'll get some discontinuous patterns
"Go inside" the cusp neighborhoods by rotating about a cusp to see this more clearly
12:07
For the users having the ability to delete-vote : Please visit the chatroom CURED for an urgently needed action.
12:41
What is meant by Krull sharpening here?
13:13
c) what is the difference between Ran (\phi) and \phi(G)?
a) is false.
b) done
I'll remove white sugar completely from my diet in 2 years.
Dune part 2 is really good. please see it
it's about how a person slowly gets consumed by a prophecy
13:32
is it some distant space movie? I heard about it but haven't seen it yet.
@SoumikMukherjee Before battle, Krull must sharpen his blades.
what's the difference between krill and prawn?
which one is tastier?
Prawns are tastier.
13:50
but they smell :(.
But still I find their taste to be ok. I never had krill.
Prawns and krill when about the same...
I don't think that you would want to eat krill. They are small, and mostly carapace.
Here is an analogy that I just realized.
Chameleons are like $C^\infty$ functions, they can change theirs colors as many times as they want, while squids are like $C^1$ functions.
@Koro yeah the overall setting is like Star Wars
it's a chilling movie
14:13
@BalarkaSen Oh I see. Thanks!
14:36
My search arrived at $48\cdot 10^9$
By looking at the image, can it be said that f is not an immersion?
near p, f seems to be a constant, so Df is 0 locally near p hence not an immersion.
no?
15:07
it looks like an immersion to me
but I don't think the picture is perfectly unambiguous without elaboration
We may assume the image of the left to an open interval in R and the on the right to be in R^2.
Why does it look like an immersion to you?
So it's an immersion but not an embedding
15:26
So its like exponential map from $[0, 1)$ to $S^1$
@Koro doesn't look like its constant near $p$ to me, it looks like we're just moving and then bending, in an injective manner
the fundamental group of a simply connected manifold is trivial. therefore, its abelanisation is trivial
does this mean the first homology group of this is trivial?
thanks..
33
Q: The First Homology Group is the Abelianization of the Fundamental Group.

caffeinemachineI am trying to understand the proof of the following fact from Hatcher's Algebraic Topology, section 2.A. Theorem. Let $X$ be a path connected space. Then the abelianization of $\pi_1(X, x_0)$ is isomorphic to $H_1(X)$. I am having trouble understanding the last step of the proof. Step 1...

the image looks like a loop with transverse self-intersection to me
the way it is drawn, it looks like it's a restriction of the literal inclusion $\mathbb{R}\subseteq\mathbb{R}^2$ in a neighborhood of $p$
and hopefully we are in agreement that has injective differential
15:34
ooh makes sense cuz every loop wud b a boundary of something
@Thorgott self-intersection?
yes, the loop crosses itself at $f(p)$
I thought it never actually approaches $f(p)$ as we move $x$ to the right endpoint of domain of $f$
it could be meant like that, too
as I said, I think the picture is a bit ambiguous
so that the map is injective and looks like injection of $[0, 1)$ into $S^1$
15:37
however, no matter how you interpret it, it's always an immersion at $p$
@Thorgott I think so, because of the arrow
yeah, that's fair
the pic looks like it's from Lee, but I don't care enough to look for it
16:19
@Balarka suppose $X$ is a smooth oriented $n$-cell and $X_1,X_2\subseteq X$ are (closed, codimensions $0$) oriented smooth submanifolds with boundary that are themselves $n$-cells s.t. $X=X_1\cup X_2$ and $X_1\cap X_2$ is a neat codimension $1$ submanifold with boundary of $X$. is $X_1\cap X_2$ automatically an $(n-1)$-cell?
16:31
My search arrived at $70\cdot 10^9$
16:57
@Thorgott Seems to me that $X_1 \cap X_2 \hookrightarrow X = D^n$ is a properly embedded (i.e., boundary of $X_1 \cap X_2$ goes to boundary of $D^n$) smooth codimension 1 submanifold such that the complementary pieces are smooth codim 0 manifold with corners which are $n$-balls. Doubling this $D^n$ then gives an embedded codimension 1 submanifold $S \subset S^n$ (obtained by doubling $X_1 \cup X_2$) such that $S^n \setminus S$ are $n$-balls. Morse theory forces $S$ to be a topological sphere.
Let $M = X_1 \cup X_2$. This is a smooth manifold with boundary $(M, \partial M)$ such that $M \cup_{\partial M} M = S^{n-1}$. Morse theory should again tell you $M = D^{n-1}$.
Smoothly it's possible something goes wrong. Especially around dimension 4.
It's not known if there are exotic 4-balls.
Ah, wait, one second. It's not true that $M \cup_{\partial M}M = S^n$ implies $M$ is a ball without carefully knowing what is happening near $\partial M$. There are non-ball manifolds $(M, \partial M)$ and a diffeomorphism $f : \partial M \to \partial M$ such that $M \cup_f M$ is a sphere.
Mazur cork
Maybe this can be used to give a counterexample
17:13
@Thorgott Potential counterexample: There is a 4-manifold with boundary $(M, \partial M)$ and an involution $f : \partial M \to \partial M$ such that $M \cup_f M = S^4$ and $f$ extends to a homeomorphism of $M$ (but not a diffeomorphism).

Let $D^5$ be a ball bounding this $S^4$, treat it as a manifold with corners whose boundary faces are the two copies of $M$ and the corner is $\partial M$ where they intersect. Let $X_1, X_2$ be two copies of this 5-ball with corners. Glue $X_1$ and $X_2$ along a pair of boundary face $M$ by the extension of $f$ to $M$. Then this union $X_1 \cup X_2$ seem
Ugh ... Math speak the ultimate way code I can't break :p
Certainly, $\partial(X_1 \cup X_2) = S^4$.
is $\partial M$ a $3$-sphere?
No, it's a homology 3-sphere.
The involution is a smooth involution of this ZHS^3
urgh, this is weird
17:23
I don't know what I was thinking when I said f is constant.
It is not. It is identity.
So usually when hyperlinking books etc in recommended books could we use the publishers website instead of the traditional first Google result? Would this create value?
near p
@Thorgott You get the picture right? I think $X_1 \cup X_2$ looks very close to a 5-ball
@Thorgott I think it self intersects because the text (image not shared here) says that the image on the right with subspace topology from R^2 is not homeomorphic to R.
and @Jakobian
@BalarkaSen yeah, it's very close to the subspace decomposition of $D^n$ into two hemi-disks
17:28
right
@Koro that would be the case either way
Ah, is $X_1 \cup X_2$ above contractible? Because I know $M$ is contractible for a fact
embedded submanifold vs immersed submanifold?
If so then there is a unique contractible manifold with boundary $S^n$ for $n \geq 5$.
regular manifold is fine.
17:31
So it has to be $D^5$
@BalarkaSen it's the union of two contractibles along a contractible, so yeah
Oh great so done
(yadayada the inclusions are all closed cofibrations)
It is an example
@BalarkaSen ah, I didn't know
17:33
@Thorgott Follows from h-cobordism theorem
Delete a small ball from the inside
You get an self-$h$-cobordism of $S^n$, necessarily $S^n \times I$
so immersed submanifold is used instead of embedded in the definition of Lie subgroup to make the following true: Connected Lie subgroups of a Lie group G are in one to one correspondence with the Lie subalgebras of Lie(G).
yeah, I never properly learned h-cobordism sadly
but this is a wild counter-example, thanks
@Koro correct
Great question
Np
@Koro the image is the same either way
I was originally just trying to describe addition in homotopy groups without fixing explicit models for the $n$-cells and their inclusions, but I also didn't need to be as general as in that question lol
17:40
Here's a thought all infinite games are prime factorable in a base independent way
Conjecture 2: Life itself is not
Should I post on math se?
Probably not ... In case anyone has any idea lemme know?
hi. so(3) can be thought of as euclidean metric preserving vector fields on $R^3$ and also as the left invariant vector fields on the projective 3-d ball
what is this idea called when a lie algebra can be identified with different vector fields
Also conjecture 2 refers to the double negation thingy of Nagarjuna and the answer that Buddha is life itself
@RyderRude in my case it's the definition of a Lie algebra associated to a Lie group.
u mean the one on the projective 3d ball?
You take a L. group G. You consider the set K of all left invariant vector fields on G. K with the commutator bracket is called the Lie algebra associated to G. (This is the definition of Lie algebra associated to G).
17:46
yeah. this applies to the second vector field. what about the vector field on $R^3$?
K can be shown to be vector space isomorphic to the tangent space of G at e.
this doesn't sound correct to me
there are more isometric flows on R^3 than just rotations
oh
but we can still take the vector fields on $R^3$ that correspond to rotations, right?
and the lie bracket is again the commutator of these vector fields
@Thorgott btw what are these flows
look up "Killing vector field"
oh i think we can flow anywhere on the spherical shells of a constant radius. these wont correspond to rotations along any axis
@Thorgott thanks
i just wanted to know what this idea is called when u take a lie algebra, and associate it to certain vector fields
there seems to be multiple such associations for the same lie algebra
the definition of lie algebra im using is a vector space with a lie bracket
18:02
as Koro said, any Lie group has an associated Lie algebra consisting of left-invariant vector fields on that Lie group
I'm not sure I see the "multiple" in your example
Feel free to ignore as I know this is super long
But what on earth is going on in the last paragraph of this proof? I guess I'll wait to read about $\Bbb Z$ from a more careful source...?
the other vector field association can be : take $R^3$ and associate an element of so(3) to the vector field which points in the direction of the infinitesimal rotation of $R^3$ generated by that element @Thorgott
@EE18 it's written somewhat awkwardly, yeah, I'm not a fan
@RyderRude I guess you can do that
not sure if it's particularly meaningufl
in some parts of the world, can simply connected not have 'connected' in its definition?
https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4881948/expected-number-of-steps-of-either-of-the-two-independent-one-dimensional-random

Can someone check this out for me?
18:17
because I saw- Let G be a connected, simply connected ...
I would reject that
yeah. simply connected = path connected + (\pi_1=0)
The above link I sent is about one-dimensional random walks and expected number of steps before it reaches a point at a distance of a from the origin, given the random walks are symmetric and start at the origin.
@Thorgott Cheers, thanks for letting me know :)
Maybe one last question if possible Thorgott...my book says "It is not hard to see that $r \in \Bbb Q \iff \exists (p,q) \in \Bbb Z \times \Bbb N^\times (r = p/q)$
Two questions about this: (1) By $r = p/q$ they presumably mean $r = pq^{-1}$ where $p$ and $q$ are the elements of $\Bbb Q$ that are also in $\Bbb Z$ and $\Bbb N^\times$ respectively, right? i.e. in the subsets of $\Bbb Q$ which are isomorphic thereto?
In that case, I can see the $\Longleftarrow$ immediately by closure of the field $\Bbb Q$
So my (2) would be how to I prove $\implies$?
what is $r$?
like, a priori
18:27
Ah, you mean the chosen construction for $\Bbb Q$?
no, I'm just asking what $r$ is
A rational number, an element of $\Bbb Q$
Just posting something. Can someone engage with this?
Dang nevermind
then it's very weird to phrase that claim as an equivalence
considering the left-hand side of the equivalence is categorically true
but I take it you're trying to show that every rational number equals an integer divided by a positive natural number
@Thorgott All natural numbers are positive.
18:30
*runs and hides*
in which case, how to show this does depend on how you've defined $\mathbb{Q}$
@XanderHenderson I will find you
If it helps with context, here it is
LOL
I didn't think it mattered because it''s after they say we don't care about different isomorphic copies of $Q$
well, by construction, any rational number equals an integer divided by a non-zero integer
you are hopefully already aware that every non-zero integer either is a positive natural number or its negative is a positive natural number
so you are done once you observe that $p/(-q)=(-p)/q$
The question is: Determine the expected number of steps of either of the two independent one-dimensional walks $R_1$ or $R_2$ on $\mathbb{Z}$ reaching a point $P$ at a distance of $a$ from the origin. The random walks start at the origin and are symmetric. I would guess that it is $a^2$ and it is because of the independence of the two random walks and this thread: https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/288298/symmetric-random-walk-with-bounds

However, I am not entirely sure whether this result works or not because it would imply that the same is true for more than two random walks which
18:33
Your r \in Q is an equivalence class [(a,b)] where a is in Z, b in N^+
@Thorgott Hrm... I don't like that sentence. The definition above gives that $\mathbb{Q}$ is the smallest field containing the integers. The proof is constructive---the authors build a field in the "obvious" way, then show that any other field containing $\mathbb{Z}$ must be at least as a big. But in the construction, a rational number is an equivalence class of pairs of integers.
@Thorgott It's equal to an equivalence class which includes that pair (a,b) by construction, right?
The notation $p/q$ is a simplification of $[(p,q)]$ (where $[x]$ denotes the equivalence class of $x$).
And they are denoting the equivalence class by a/b,
it's not a notation, it's a post hoc truth
18:34
@Thorgott All natural numbers are positive!
that makes sense because if you take any other representative (c,d) in [(a,b)], then you know that (c,d)~(a,b)
which means that cb=da
so r=a/b=c/d.
they define the multiplication in $\mathbb{Q}$ so that the rational number $[(p,q)]$ becomes a fortiori the result of dividing the integer $p$ (interpreted as a rational number in the way they specified) by a non-zero integer $q$ (interpreted as a rational number in the same way again) in $\mathbb{Q}$
@XanderHenderson I thought it was more notation for $[(p,1)][(q,1)]^{-1}$
I think you are trying to create rationals out of nothing (the empty set).
the notation $p/q$ has a pre-defined meaning
it is $pq^{-1}$, as you've said
18:35
@EE18 That isn't how I read it, but perhaps.
First you may have created N, then by equivalence relation on N, Z and then Q.
it would be amazing to have an equivalence relation on Q which gives R.
is there any?
perhaps not
@Koro Sure. Cauchy sequences.
But you don't build $\mathbb{Z}$ with an equivalence relation on $\mathbb{N}$. You build it from an equivalence relation on $\mathbb{N}\times\mathbb{N}$.
@XanderHenderson right.
yes
Cauchy sequences
there's also an obscure and not particularly useful way of constructing $\mathbb{R}$ directly from $\mathbb{Z}$
@Thorgott Sure.
18:38
what is it?
@Koro no, just by cardinality reasons. But as Xander mentioned you can do equivalence classes of sequences of rationals. Or use subsets of the rationals if you prefer Dedekind cuts
@AlessandroCodenotti No one should prefer Dedekind cuts. :P
Dedekind cuts are not easy to work with. I'll go with Cauchy.
The Dedekind construction gives you the least upper bound property for free, which is nice. And I feel like it also gives you the nested interval property fairly easily (though it's been a while since I've thought about this).
So we take the set of all Cauchy sequences C on Q and define x~y if lim (x-y)=0.
then equivalence classes are real numbers.
18:41
Yes, that is the idea.
I don't remember the details, but the basic idea is that a real number $r$ is uniquely determined by the function $\mathbb{N}\rightarrow\mathbb{N},\,n\mapsto\lfloor rn\rfloor$, so you try and work backwards from that
ah wait, I think I do have to use $\mathbb{Z}$
otherwise negatives don't make sense lol
Negatives don't make sense, anyway.
but you don't need the rationals to do this
though you do need a rationale
All natural (as in naturally occurring) numbers are positiive. :P
Does anyone remember that famous false proof that pi is rational using circle?
I'd shared that image here once but can't find it now.
18:46
@Koro Do you mean this:
@XanderHenderson yeah, thanks a lot :-)
@XanderHenderson grrr
I love Dedekind cuts. Cauchy sequences stop being relevant once you construct the reals
???
complete metric spaces are everywhere
2
@Jakobian You would.
18:56
Can I sneak one last screenshot in?
Dedekind cuts don't generalize much beyond the construction of the reals. Cauchy sequences generalize to all of metric analysis.
oh no, you shouldn't have said that
now we'll get a lecture on how to complete linearly ordered spaces
@EE18 I'd say "we can't stop you", but I guess Xander could
@Thorgott Yeah, but completing linearly ordered spaces isn't super-duper useful other than as a party trick.
@Thorgott the construction
@XanderHenderson completing metric spaces in this way has better alternatives
i.e. construction is useless beyond completing the reals
@Thorgott nah. Waste of my efforts
19:17
So to construct the reals/complete an ordered space, I'll just use Dedekind cuts. To complete a metric space, I'll use Kuratowski's embedding. No need for the Cauchy sequences contruction
And this is better than Cauchy sequences, since you have an isometry of $X$ into $C_b(X)$ with supremum norm (or $C^*(X)$ as I call it)
Historical question, why is it called Zorn's lemma if Kuratowski proved it first?
no idea about specifics, but things are rarely named after who did/used them literally first
@Jakobian You're swatting houseflies with nukes.
@XanderHenderson no. Just accept that your favourite construction of reals sucks
Sigh...
So confrontational.
19:22
Yes, but you were trying to slander Dedekind cuts, so...
@leslietownes Then who are the named after usually? who ever popularized the thing most?
@Jakobian No, I was not attempting to "slander" Dedekind cuts.
I was pointing out that the construction is less generalizable, and less widely used in building other spaces which are commonly studied.
That's very true
soumik: often i think there's no "decision" to name something after someone for any specific reason, it just emerges organically out of how people begin referring to a method or result, which can happen for reasons other than priority as often as it happens for that reason. which is very close to your "who popularized it most," except it doesn't require the named-after person to do anything (e.g. all zorn might have done is published some paper)
But if you go with Dedekind construction for the reals, and Kuratowski's embedding for metric spaces, you have best of both worlds
19:24
The relevant notion of "completeness" in metric spaces is Cauchy completeness, i.e. all Cauchy sequences converge in the space. It is natural to attempt to complete a space using this condition. From a pedagogical and historical point of view, it makes sense to talk about the Cauchy construction. Kuratowski's embedding is (like other embedding results) a very nice and useful result, but it is not generally a useful way of thinking about how to construct / complete a metric space.
and also an improved version of metric completion
soumik: if you want something named after you, i think your best bet would be to publish it in a journal that is likely to be read by a lot of people who publish even more than you do :)
@leslietownes "Baez's Law of Misattribution".
you mean xander's law of misattribution?
@leslietownes Absolutely.
For what it is worth, there are a few of us who are trying to get the notion of the "Lapidus dimensions" of a space into the literature.
19:27
@XanderHenderson "useful way of thinking about how to construct / complete a metric space." Now what does that mean
@Jakobian no
one construction is rarely categorically better/worse than another and it's certainly not the case here
@Jakobian I am really tired of you constantly picking fights with people here, and have no desire to engage with you further on this. I am walking away.
If someone has learned real numbers, continuous functions etc., then one has just as much access to Kuratowski's embedding construction as the other one
So its not less useful in pedagogical sense
Moreover, the naturality of Cauchy sequences construction - is it really that natural?
@XanderHenderson I found Dedekind cuts to be useless and obscuring what's going on.
@leslietownes hehehXD
19:32
Kuratowski embedding is a theorem you need to prove. It gives you a different result, but it also requires more effort.
@Koro As I said above, the Dedekind construction has a couple of really nice features---the most "obvious" being the least upper bound property, which is hard to get at otherwise, and is maybe one of the harder-to-understand aspects of the reals from the point of view of a learner.
@Thorgott it doesn't actually require much effort if you read the proof
unless you mean that you need to prove that $C_b(X)$ is complete as well
but if someone had introduction to real numbers, continuous functions, uniform convergece etc., then there should be no problem in understanding this
@SoumikMukherjee say, you write a paper and name a theorem after your name. What would people think?
There's been a discussion on this here before.
it's not an absolute, but a relative claim.
Like imagine Hilbert calling Hilbert spaces Hilbert spaces.
19:35
I can construct a completion using Cauchy sequences in my sleep. It's a tautological process. I can't prove Kuratowski embedding in my sleep. It requires a non-trivial idea.
@leslietownes Can 'sounds aesthetic' be a reason?
@Koro If I were teaching a class in which it were necessary to build a model of the reals from some other place, I would want students to know both Dedekind's and Cauchy's approaches, and to be able to show that they are equivalent. I would also want students to be able to articulate the useful things we get from both constructions.
and, as I was saying earlier, there are contexts in which you explicitly want the Cauchy sequence construction
@Thorgott which contexts are those
(e.g. the existence of limits is obtained "for free" from the Cauchy construction; arithmetic is kind of the same-same difficulty either way; etc).
19:36
You mean something ring theoretical?
@Koro They would think that you are an arrogant @$$hat, and ignore you. :P
@Koro They would think "Who is this random guy? this theorem is probably wrong"
constructing the completions of valued rings/fields, for example
@XanderHenderson I think one advantage is that understanding DC does not require sequences.
if you suggest an algebraist to construct $\mathbb{Q}_p$ via the Kuratowski embedding theorem, they will rightfully laugh at you
19:37
@Koro What about marvel?
@Thorgott Shoot, I'm an analyst who works in $\mathbb{Q}_p$, and I'd laugh at you.
yeah. Okay I agree the Cauchy construction is useful
In the book, where I studied them, the DC were before chapter on sequences.
same in Rudin's.
This room now has more than 3.6 million messages.
soumik: we should hold a contest to find the insightful one. offer some kind of prize
19:41
a mathstack hoodie
@Koro one way in which Dedekind cuts are useful is that any ordered archimedean field embeds into $\mathbb{R}$
You can prove that every element of this field is determined uniquely by a Dedekind cut
people also study when fundamental group of a topological space can be ordered
@SoumikMukherjee Zorn's lemma was 'proven'?
@leslietownes I already have one in mind:P
embeddability results of ordered groups, etc.
19:51
@Koro Yes, assuming AC of course
There are 4 or 5 things related to it that implies each other; AC, Zorn's lemma, Zermelo theorem, and two other things
they're all equivalent.
Silly question, but how does one show that if $a \in \Bbb Z$ then $\sqrt{a}$ exists in $\Bbb Q$ only if $a$ is the square root of a natural.
I thought to derive a contradiction from $\sqrt{a} \notin \Bbb N$ but am getting nowhere
write \sqrt a =p/q with gcd(p,q)=1.
Oh never mind, I think I'm meant to use an earlier corollary which says that if $a \in Z$ and if the equation $x^n = a$ has solutions in $Q$ then $x \in Z$
20:00
then recall how you prove \sqrt 3 to be irrational.
How to prove this?
If I apply Ad on both sides, then lhs= Ad(exp(sX))o Ad(exp(tY)
because Ad is adjoint representation and that's a homomorphism.
not sure how to take it from here.
20:24
try following the hitn?
@EE18 you mean, $a$ is a square of a natural
@EE18 sure you can use that for $x^2 = a$
@Jakobian I do indeed, thanks for catching that
20:48
If $0\to K\to N\to M\to 0$ is a SES of modules, $M$ is finitely presented, $N$ is finitely generated, then $K$ is finitely generated. My interpretation of this result is that if we try to write a finitely presented module $M$ as a quotient $N/K$ where $N$ is finitely generated, then that forces $K$ to be finitely generated as well.
which doesn't sound like a big demand
its a reasonable theorem under that interpretation
A binary relation $R$ on the set $A$ is called an equivalence relation in $A$ if it is reflexive, symmetric and transitive.
Could someone give me an example, pls
$xRy \iff x = y$, where $x, y\in A$
equality is the prototypical example of equivalence
the other prototypical example is x R y iff f(x) = f(y), where f is some fixed function from A to somewhere else
literal equality, and equality after applying a function
in other words, equality is the set $R = \{(x, x) : x\in A\} = \Delta_A$, also called the diagonal of $A\times A$
@leslietownes in fact, all examples are of this form
if you say so
20:57
I was saying that for Pizza
I thought you already know
i did, my if you say so was mildly sarcastic (i will indicate this in the future with an italicized MS at the end)
alright, that will be helpful
@Jakobian How can it be transitive?
@Pizza Transitivity says that if $xRy$ and $yRz$, then $xRz$
so in here it will say, if $x = y$ and $y = z$, then $x = z$
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