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00:54
aww i missed some linear algebra talk
01:54
Where can I see a proof of $\sum\limits_{i=1}^ni^k$ equals to a degree $k+1$ polynomial of $n$?
math.stackexchange.com/questions/1893693/… gives the idea of an inductive proof.\
 
1 hour later…
02:58
@youthdoo I give three approaches in this answer
 
2 hours later…
04:41
hi, can someone help me with a hint: consider a point P in a triangle ABC. Let the feet of perpendiculars from P on AB, BC, CA be M, N, Q. If PM^2-AM.MB=PN^2-BN.NC=PQ^2-CQ.QA then prove/disprove that P is the orthocenter of ABC.
I actually need it as a lemma for solving a math.se problem
 
3 hours later…
07:39
Why is the following true? $2^{\frac{p-1}2}\equiv (2/p) \pmod p$
Here (.) is Lagrange's symbol, and p is an odd prime.
Case 1: 2 is a quadratic non-residue of p. In this case the RHS is 0. That means that p should divide LHS but that's impossible.
Case 2: if 2 is a quadratic residue of p, then RHS is 1 but not sure how the equality follows in this case either.
$(2/p)= (-1)^{(p^2-1)/8}$
@Koro Isn't this simply a special case of Euler's criterion?
Ohh thanks a lot. :-)
I hadn't noticed that before.
In short, you know that $2^{(p-1)/2}$ is $\pm1$ modulo $p$.
Similarly, the RHS is either $1$ or $-1$.
So you simply show that both sides are equal to 1 if 2 is a quadratic residue.
And since in both cases you have exactly half of them equal to $1$ and the other one equal to $-1$, the rest follows.
I guess this is along the lines of the proof given in the Wikipedia article.
08:41
Given that f is a holomorphic function in an open connected subset of C, can it be extended to an entire function?
f has a power series around every point p in the subset.
say, $f(z)= \sum a_n (z-p)^n$ for all z near p.
If I define $\tilde f(z)= a_n(z-p)^n$ for all z in C, then can I say that $\tilde f$ is entire?
I think no, because the radius of convergence of the series may be small.
But I don’t have an example where the extension is not possible.
It's one of the exercise problems in Stein's complex analysis.
08:57
Yeah, I had seen that exercise in the book but hadn’t solved it. Thanks.
Suppose that f has only roots p and q in the subset( one simple and the other being of order 3), then can I say that $ f(z)=(z-p)( z-q)^2 g(z)$ where g is non vanishing in the entire subset.
I think yes but at the cost of ‘holomorphicity’.
Typo: power of z-q is 3.
$f(z)/(z-p)(z-q)^3$ is holomorphic on the same domain (removable singularities) and nonvanishing.
I was thinking of the similar thing. Thanks for confirming it. So we consider $f(z)/(z-p)$, z not equal to p. This quotient is holomorphic on the entire subset except at p. In particular, it is holomorphic near q. So near q, there exists a non vanishing g such that $f(z)/(z-p)= (z-q)^3 g(z)$
Define $\tilde g(z)= \frac{f(z)}{(z-p)(z-q)^3}$, then this $\tilde g$ is holomorphic except at p and at q.
and is actually an extension of g. So by the identity theorem, is the unique extension of g.
So we have: $f(z)= (z-p)(z-q)^3 \tilde g(z)$.
for all z in the subset.
@onepotatotwopotato I know the definition of removable singularities but is there any formula to check directly if a point is a removable singularity or not?
nvm, I got the formula. :-).
But it's not required here, I think.
09:33
Sanity check me: is the unit disc in $\mathbb{R}^2$ an algebraic variety for any system of polynomials? I feel like the answer is "no"
 
3 hours later…
12:30
Let CX be cone of X and * be the cone point. Then CX-*$\simeq X$ is to be proven.
How does one do that?
I know that CX is a contractible space so $CX \simeq p$, a point.
what is simeq here
homotopy equivalence, I suppose.
"I suppose" does not inspire confidence :~(
:(
Actually it is not mentioned in the exercise set I have so I am also not sure 😅
it means being asymptotically equal to. It is the combination of ≈ and =
12:34
@AiraThunberg depends on the notation
But it should be 'homotopy equivalence' because there's an exercise right after this: $S^n$/{p,q}$\simeq S^n ∨ S^1$.
koro is this course built around a textbook? or where is all of this coming from?
homotopy equivalence feels right, i just want to be sure before investing precious energy
And this result holds in case of homotopy equivalence.
and the associated precious time = $
and, for some reason, money
12:37
@leslietownes the teacher has sent some exercise problems. I don't know where he sourced them from.
some are from Hatcher's though.
I went through the 0th chapter of Hatcher's. I have some understanding of some concepts now without proof.
Ask him for definitions of the symbols.
I use $\simeq$ for homotopy equivalence and isomorphisms between algebraic objects. $\cong$ only for homeomorphism.
Without proper definitions of your vocabulary terms you are just left to a guessing game.
it's clearly homotopy equivalence
3
State that^ explicitly.
12:45
Thorgott: the first thing that comes to my mind while trying to prove the above H.E. is that CX is contractible. Am I in the right direction of proving this?
consider that you are removing the cone point to which CX deformation retracts
13:00
@Rithaniel I think this question might be subtle.
$V(f_1,\dotsc,f_n)=V(f_1^2+\dotsc+f_n^2)$ over $\mathbb{R}$, so it suffices to consider single polynomials, but I don't see a contradiction in sight anyway
13:12
Hello
Well, you can express it as an inequality easily enough. But how do you go from $x^2+y^2-1<0$ to $f(x,y)=0$? I don't feel like it's possible, but, as you say, I don't see any immediate reason why not
I have a question
Askaway
open unit disc? wouldn't V(anything) be closed in the euclidean topology?
Yeah, you might be right. Closed unit disc, then
13:15
Simplify(without a calculator):$$2 \left[ \frac{3}{5} \times \frac{4}{5} \right] \left[ \left( \frac{12}{13} \right)^2 - \left( \frac{-5}{12} \right)^2 \right] - 2 \left[ \left( \frac{4}{5} \right)^2 - \left( \frac{3}{5} \right)^2 \right] \left[ \frac{-5}{13} \times \frac{12}{13} \right]$$
i dont know anything about any of this, if the disc is included in the zero set of a polynomial, doesn't taylor's formula or whatever imply that the polynomial is identically zero
full disclosure i dont know what V( ) is
oh lol of course
I completely missed that
the reduction to one polynomial is a cool thing
($V(f)$ is the set of zeroes of $f$)
adding ALGEBRAIC GEOMETER to my business card
13:18
a very surprising fact (to me, anyway, when I first heard it) is that over any field that isn't algebraically closed, the common zero locus of any set of polynomials can always be expressed as zero locus of a single polynomial
wait, what
that feels wrong, is that some weird logic thing
no, it's very concrete
The original question is: if $\sin(A) = \frac{3}{5}, 0 \leq A \leq \frac{A}{2}$ and $\cos(B) = \frac{12}{13}, \frac{- \pi}{2} \leq B \leq 0$, find the value of $\sin(2(A-B))$
Yeah, I'm taking a course on algebraic geometry this semester. I'm still new to this, too. We haven't encountered that result, yet, Thorgott
removing ALGEBRAIC GEOMETER from my business card
2
13:22
But I suppose it's because of the $V(\{f_i\}_{i\in I})=V(\sum_{i\in I}f_i^2)$ result you dropped a few lines ago
that only works over $\mathbb{R}$ (or other totally ordered fields)
Ah, fair
in general, there is a trick. pick $g\in k[x]$ without any zeros. then, $h(x,y)=y^{deg(g)}g(x/y)$ makes sense as a polynomial of two variables and $h(x,y)=0$ iff $(x,y)=(0,0)$, so the common zero locus of two polynomials $f_1,f_2\in k[x_1,\dotsc,x_n]$ is the zero locus of $h(f_1,f_2)\in k[x_1,\dotsc,x_n]$. the cases of more polynomials follow by an induction (and you only ever need finitely many by Hilbert's basis theorem).
if $k=\mathbb{R}$, you can pick $g=x^2+1$, yielding $h=x^2+y^2$ with the only zero $(0,0)$ and this recovers the previous trick
Oh, that's slick
it is
13:25
he's a witch! burn him
I was very surprised when a fellow student showed it to me
I wonder if you could take a sequence of polynomials and define a function from the limit of applying this trick to the first n terms
(Probably depends on the sequence)
Hey guys, anyone helping out with my question?
13:41
Just ask; don't ask to ask.
He asked already
he did ask, the question just sucks
Well, your problem is mainly arithmetic, Ajay. Do you need a refresher on how to add/multiply fractions?
Order of operations
Anyways I do know how
13:42
the question! not you
but it's non calc
I can't think of a way to do it without taking forever
there's identities that reduce sin(2x) in terms of sin and cos of x. and then other identities, if x = A - B, that reduce that into other trig functions of A and B
and then there's crap about, if t is in some range, you can get cos(t) out of sin(t) and vice versa
is there more than that? i think we agree that the problem sucks
THe simplification at the end sucks
we might disagree about whether it takes forever or just takes unpleasant amount of time
I say forever because it was on my math test yesterday
13:45
well that sucks
And I couldn't do it
i wouldn't be able to do it under time either
Speed test
Yeah, that's perhaps putting too much weight on speedy arithmetic
13:46
@Rithaniel which is why I believe there is a shortcut or something
Life in the fast lane, surely makes you lose your mind...
i generally disbelieve "if you can pose the problem in 1 second, there should be an answer in 1 second"
Probably. There are a lot of tricky identities with trig functions
even if it's true, it's not helpful
... separate the men from the boys
13:49
@user7269591 Oh, I didn't see that.
np
🙏
The j e e is full of questions like that, unfortunately.
14:26
ANyone made any progress?
I've tried a few things like making the denominators 25 and 169 and tyring to find some factorisation.
I'm scrolling through wolframs way of doing it, but their taking nearly 30 steps
s too much
What do you think about R.P burn Analysis?
@Ajay what's the question? is it that with $\sin (2(A-B))$?
@Ajay You really only need two tools: angle addition formulae, and the Pythagorean identity. Though I am very confused as to how $0 < A < A/2$...
@XanderHenderson I think it should be $A<\pi/2$
14:42
@XanderHenderson Yeah, that's a typo, it should be pi/2
But that's not the problem, the main problem is trying to simplify this: $$2 \left[ \frac{3}{5} \times \frac{4}{5} \right] \left[ \left( \frac{12}{13} \right)^2 - \left( \frac{-5}{12} \right)^2 \right] - 2 \left[ \left( \frac{4}{5} \right)^2 - \left( \frac{3}{5} \right)^2 \right] \left[ \frac{-5}{13} \times \frac{12}{13} \right]$$
Do you guys think I should post this as a question?
@Ajay try with: $\sin A \cos B-\sin B \cos A=\sin(A-B)$ and $\sin (2(A-B))=2\sin (A-B)\sqrt{1-\sin^2(A-B)}$
15:03
@Ajay I wouldn't. Simplifying that is some relatively basic arithmetic. It is not likely to be well received on the main site.
@SineoftheTime I gave your method a shot, I ended up with $\frac{112 \times 33}{65}$ which is wrong
I think I may have made a mistake in my working.
Anyways, it's getting late and I need to sleep. THanks for the help so far though guys
 
2 hours later…
16:35
Hello can anyone tell me how do you prove f is bijective.
I don't have any idea how to prove f is bijective because function maps real to a power set whose element is also set.
I am using this definition of injective.
@NotTfue Are you stuck on the injectivity, then? So you are already convinced that it is surjective?
Suppose that $f(x) = A \subseteq \mathbb{N}$. What does it mean if $j\in A$?
17:01
@XanderHenderson Sorry for late reply. I am not convinced it is surjection but I was thinking if I know how to prove it is injection then surjection will be not that hard to do so.
That is, essentially, the definition of "is an element of". I am asking what it means for $j$ to be an element of $A$, in terms of this function you have defined.
It means if d_{-j} is 2 then j is in the set.
No, that is not what I am asking. Suppose that $f(x) = A$ (remember, $f$ is set valued). Now suppose that $j$ is an element of $A$. What does that say about $x$?
Ah that was same thought that I thought at first and couldn't come up with answer.
But somewhat I think is related to uniqueness of decimal expansion.
Well, figuring that out is likely to be important.
17:08
Yeah and then the next step will be trivial.
@XanderHenderson because every decimal number is unique so if 0.d_{-1}d_{-2}...=0.e_{-1}e_{-2} then d_{-n}=e_{-n}?
@NotTfue I mean, that is relevant, but it isn't an answer to my question. It is kind of the next step, after you answer my question.
@XanderHenderson it indicates coefficient of decimal expansion is 1 xor 2.
17:46
hello
Why are polynomials so common in Mathematics?
hello
i want to prove that $\lim_{n\to+\infty}\frac{n!}{n^n+n-2}$ using epsilon definition but what is the idea to do the majorations
algebraic geometry, that is all about polynomials, isn't it?
$n!=n(n-1)(n-2)...2.1$ but how to continue?
17:49
@PolineSandra Have you seen Stirling's Approximation?
I don't know if I need to think about induction...
it only say 1 xor 2 is coefficient of decimal expansion
@PolineSandra $\frac{n!}{n^n}=\frac nn\frac{n-1}n\frac{n-2}n\cdots\frac1n$
What does that say to you?
@XanderHenderson can you give me some hint. I think I don't know.
that lim \frac{n!}{n^n}=0
17:55
A value varies from $x$ to $x+y$, assume $y=15$ and that the variation is $6%$. Evaluate $x$ and $x+y$. I tried this: the variation is $(x+y)-x=y$, and it is both $y=15$ and $(x+y)-y=6x/100$. Hence $15=6x/100$, so $x=250$. Finally, $x+y=265$. Is this a correct reasoning?
@MatsGranvik Are they not basically the simplest sorts of functions you can imagine (other than constants or step functions)?
@Poline So can you finish now?
Greetings @robjohn; I hope you're recuperating nicely.
but i must have that $n^n +n -10 >n^n$
@TedShifrin two steps forward, one step back, but progressing.
Well, I'm sorry it's not more efficient. All healthful thoughts to you.
@PolineSandra Well, what can you say when $n>10$?
@PolineSandra you're computing $\lim\limits_{n\to\infty}$
18:00
yeah, polynomials arise pretty naturally in the function context. if you know about a function f, and you know about adding and scaling and multiplying (and constant functions) as operations, you know about polynomials in f. if f is the identity, you know about polynomial polynomials.
yeah, you don't need that pointwise inequality, although you certainly have it if n is large enough.
@TedShifrin All in all, it is a positive slope.
Well, I'm in the queue to see a back surgeon ... first appointment in June.
@TedShifrin Is this your preferred surgeon? Is there a way to check out another that might be available sooner? I had to do that with urologists. It meant 2 months sooner for me.
yes i compute the limit when n goes to +\infty
Well, I saw one two years ago. This one comes extremely highly recommended by a close friend who's had other surgery and then this guy's. I'm hoping not to have surgery just yet, anyhow. I imagine yours was an urgent issue.
18:09
@PolineSandra use one sided limit
@Poline ... So when $n\to\infty$ isn't it $>10$?
@NotTfue never gonna give yup up never gonna
We're no strangers to love
You know the rules and so do I (do I)
@MatsGranvik without polynomial you will not have phone to make meme
good night :)
I have embraced my Eire descendancy.
@TedShifrin yes
good then so you know where you are wrong
I am always right
18:14
If you're writing an $N$-$\epsilon$ proof, you just want to make sure that $N>10$, @Poline.
but in the school , we do $|\frac{n!}{n^n+n-10}|<\varepsilon$ after that we found $n_0$
So, proceed.
How did you do $\lim\limits_{x\to 2} x^2=4$?
@CuriousMind Not funny. ;_; I thought I got answer.
@TedShifrin $|x^2-4|=|x+2||x-2|$ we do a local study
Don't you make some sort of preliminary assumption like $|x-2|<1$ in order to bound $|x+2|$?
This is the same thing we're doing here when we require that $N>10$.
18:19
yes we call it a local study after that we take the minimum of the considered delta
@TedShifrin ok i will do that
Thanks for the replies @TedShifrin and @CuriousMind
leslie replied as well :)
Thank you Leslie.
thanks ted
thanks obama
18:29
I think that most often in chat when we don't ping someone, our messages go unnoticed.
well, here goes nothing. @Obama thanks obama
smacks @shin
that shed tifrin guy is so full of himself, he won't read anything that he isn't tagged in
Rolls 3.14... eyes
That's not very many.
18:31
ok 22/7
i don't think it's allowable to roll a rational number of eyes
i would like to recall everyone that reality is composed of numbers with finite decimal representations
Personally, I always try to transcend reality.
@shin That is apparently your notion of reality. Not mine.
I abhor decimals.
2 - 1.999... =?
can't be, otherwise the achilles never gets to the tortoise
18:35
Who said he ever did?
The tortoise as he was stepped on.
I guess one has to discuss time and not just distance.
d=rt
Well, Achilles gets tired and runs slower and slower each time unit.
there is a smallest quantum of time, because our brains have a determinate rate of update
18:39
Does he ever stop?
@TedShifrin for sure!
Oh, wait, I shouldn't have responded.
I was thinking that :D
18:54
@leslietownes and replacing it with what
nothing. it's just my name now. not even clear that it's a business card.
@leslietownes you've officially declared war against @Ted
well, i sure wasn't expecting snitch tagging. i thought we were all above that.
it is a siine of the times
and as is well known in the math chatroom, snitches get stitches
19:03
post pandemic times
has brought us all down a couple of notches
ugh. editing to get rid of that unfurl.
the REM song "exhuming mccarthy" has "it's a sign of the times" as a lyric.
that's all.
they're also from athens, georgia. not a lot of people know that ted shifrin is sometimes credited as the unofficial fifth member of REM
0
Q: Continuity of adjoining inclusion to family of embeddings

MathematicallyInterestedAssume $X$ is a locally compact, Hausdorff, locally connected space and $Y$ is locally connected metric space Suppose we have a continuous family $g_y:U\rightarrow X$, of open embeddings where $U$ is open in $X$ for $y\in Y$. Now fix $y'\in Y$. Define $G:Y\times U\rightarrow Y\times X$ by $G(y,u)...

i don't know, but i'm guessing that some of this will be buried in the definition of "continuous family . . . of open embeddings"
This means that $F:Y\times U\rightarrow Y\times X$ given by $F(y,u)=(y,g_{y}(u))$ is continuous
and each $g_y$ is open emebdding
There’s a typo in there.
19:20
where?
If I consider the map $\gamma:\Bbb{R}\rightarrow \Bbb{R}^3$ defined by $\gamma(t)=(t,e^{-1/t^2},0)$ if $t<0$, $\gamma(t)=(0,0,0)$ if $t=0$ and $\gamma(t)=(t,0,e^{-1/t^2})$ if $t>0$, then I got that $\gamma''(t)=\left(0,-\frac{(6t^2-4)e^{-\frac{1}{t^2}}}{t^6},0\right)$ for $t<0$, $\gamma''(t)=(0,0,0)$ for $t=0$ and $\gamma''(t)=\left(0,0,-\frac{(6t^2-4)e^{-\frac{1}{t^2}}}{t^6}\right)$ for $t>0$.

But now if $K$ is the curvature of $\alpha$ I get that $K(0)=0$ and $K(t)\neq 0$ for $t<0$ but in my opinion $K(t)\neq 0$ for $t>0$ is wrong since one can take for example $t=\frac{2}{\sqrt 6}$ and
19:36
Are you working with an arclength parametrization
@TedShifrin sorry, but we can say that for $n\geq 1$ we have $|n^n+n-10|>n^n$
no.
And why do you even consider that?
because in the definition we need the absolute value
@TedShifrin no do I need it?
How do you define curvature?
19:41
then i say for n\geq 1, $\frac{n!}{|n^n+n-10|}\leq \frac{n!}{n^n}<\varepsilon$
@TedShifrin ah right $\gamma$ needs to have unit speed right?
Yes …
Think about a particle moving with uneven speed on a straight line.
@TedShifrin do I then really need to find a prarametization or is there a simpler way to show that $K(0)=0$ and $K(t)\neq 0$ for $t\neq 0$?
@PolineSandra What you said is false and, as I’ve said five times, unnecessary anyhow.
ok thank you so it is for n> 10
thank you
19:44
Use the chain rule instead of reparametrizing. See my diff geo text if you don’t know how.
@TedShifrin sorry which text?
It's freely linked in my profile.
Ah okey found it and which chapter exactly?
gorgeous morning here in the sf bay area
Section 2 of Chapter 1 ... where curvature of curves is defined :)
We're having lots of rain, but it seems LA got the brunt of the So Cal storms/snow, although the mountains a bit east of here do have serious snow.
19:49
any help?
sunny pause in the rain right now.
I looked at it, monoidal, and the notation was wrong and the question made no sense to me. I don't see how you can randomly pick $y'$ and expect anything to be reasonable.
I think I have given up on trying to use Safari on my (somewhat elderly) iMac. It just hung up the computer repeatedly. Everything seems copacetic using Firefox. I ran all the utilities to check the disk, etc., and it seemed fine.
@TedShifrin but we haven't defined the torsion yet
Don't worry about the torsion. Just look at the computations of curvature.
@TedShifrin in the end i must choose $N=\max([\frac{1}{\varepsilon}]+1,10)$
19:52
I specifically discussed and did examples of using the chain rule.
There you go, @Poline.
In fact, you don't need the $+1$, but why bother with thinking about it !
@TedShifrin ah so you mean I need to use the fact that $\gamma''(s)=K(s)\cdot N(s)$?
@TedShifrin thank you very much
With $s$ the arclength parameter, yes. The definition of $K = \|\gamma''(s)\|$ only works with arclength parametrization.
You're welcome, @Poline.
Okay what about the following argument: Let $u\in U$. $(y',u)$ for any $u$. Assume we have an open set $V$ in $B\times X$ such that $(y',u)\in V$. Shrinking $V$ if necessary, we may assume $V=V_1\times V_2$, for open sets $V_1\owns y$ and $V_2\owns u$. Since $g_y$ is a continuous family, the map $F:Y\times U\rightarrow Y\times X$, given by $F(y,u)=(y,_g_y(u))$ is continuous. So by continuity, there exists open sets $B_1,V_1$ such that $(y',u)\in B_1\times V_1$ and such that
$F(B_1\times V_1)\subseteq V_1\times V_2$
@TedShifrin ah okey so this does not work in my case since I don't have arclength?
19:57
This is why I'm telling you you need to use the chain rule. Read.
So, the map $G:Y\times U\rightarrow Y\times X$ as above satisfies $G(B_1\times V_1)\subseteq V_1\times V_2$
Doesn't that show $G$ is continous?
@monoidal So this nonsense about defining it specially for $y=y'$ is gone? I don't know what you're now trying to prove.
What is $G$? What is the definition of a continuous family?
50 mins ago, by leslie townes
i don't know, but i'm guessing that some of this will be buried in the definition of "continuous family . . . of open embeddings"
see reply to that
@TedShifrin I said above, $G$ is $G:Y\times U\rightarrow Y\times X$ given by $G(y,u)=(y,g_y(u))$. $g_y$ is a continuous famiy if $G$ is continuous
I am totally lost.
Is the nonsense with $y'$ still in there?
20:01
No, the 'nonsense' is not gone.It's contained in showing $F(B_1\times V_1)\subseteq V_1\times V_2$
What is the difference between $F$ and $G$?
You had nonsense in the original post, so I have quit thinking about it.
I said above. G(y,u)= (y,g_y(u))$ for $y\neq y'$. And is $(y',u)$ for $y=y'$
So if you pick a random $y'$ and change the definition of $G(y',u)$, how can it possibly be continuous?
Change the definition to what? I'm just substituing $g_{y'}$ and putting inclusion. 'Identifying' $g_{y'}$ with inclusion, if you will.
And your question is what i'm trying to prove
@TedShifrin I'm a bit confused with your notation since we used the same letters for different objects. I understood your idea as follows, if I take my $\alpha$, I know that there exists a unit speed reparametrization $\beta$ such that $\beta(s)=\alpha(\phi(s))$ for $\phi$ some diffeomorphism. But then $\beta'(s)=\alpha'(\phi(s))\cdot \alpha(\phi'(s))$
20:05
This is a past exam question in my topology course
for context. It's not something I come up with
Write down the easiest example. Say $Y=X=\Bbb R$, and $g_y(x)=x+y^2$. Now choose $y'\ne 0$, say $y'=1$. Write down explicitly the mapping you're talking about and tell me it is continuous.
@user1294729 Your chain rule is not correct.
@monoidal Your first instinct should always be to try simple examples to understand things.
sorry it should be $\beta'(s)=\alpha'(\phi(s))\cdot \phi'(s)$
Error from copy paste
There you go.
But now what does this helps me?
Are you more comfortable with Leibniz notation? If so, look at the top of p. 13.
Even if not, look there anyhow. Then read Example 2.
20:10
But I don't see how you get $K$ from the formula $\beta'(s)=\alpha'(\phi(s))\cdot \phi'(s)$
so where does it appears?
You differentiate again.
You want $\|\beta''(s)\|$ if you want curvature.
I prefer differentiating $\beta'(s) = \mathbf T(s)$, as in the text.
ah so $\beta''(s)=\alpha''(\phi(s))\cdot \phi'(s)^2+\alpha'(\phi(s))\cdot \phi''(s)$?
If you want to think of it your way, look at p. 14, above Prop. 2.2.
Th $G:\mathbb{R}^2\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^2$ is given by $G(y,x)=(y,x+y^2)$ for $y\neq 1$ and for $y=1$, $G(y,x)=(1,x)$ is not continuous right?
Right. The awkwardness with this, is that you'll need to differentiate $\phi'$ (which is the speed).
That's what I'm suggesting, @monoidal, yes.
So the question makes no sense if $y'$ is truly chosen at random with no further assumptions.
20:14
But $\phi(t)=\int_0^t \|\alpha'(u)\| du$ right? but would you recommend to compute it?
You don't want to compute that, but its derivative is not bad. It's just the speed.
That's the whole point (if you actually read my text). You need arclength parametrization for theory, but in practice you avoid it and apply the chain rule immediately.
But sorry I then still need to compute the second derivative of $\alpha$ and put $\phi(s)$ into it?
Does the following make sense: Suppose $g_y:U\rightarrow X$ for $U$ open in $X$ and $y\in Y$ are open embeddings such that $G(y,u)=(y,g_{u}(y))$ is continuous. Fix $y'$ in $Y$ and identify $g_{y'}$ with the inclusion $U\hookrightarrow X$. Then for $y$ sufficiently close to $y'$, $g_y$ lies in any open set containing the inclusion.
isn't this really ugly
My issue is how is the identification there plausible? if you don't substitute $g_{y'}$ with inclusion?
20:18
@user1294729 Why don't you take 5 minutes and actually read the pages I suggested? You actually want to compute everything with the $t$ derivatives, and never put in $\phi$ explicitly.
@monoidal What does "identify $g_{y'}$ with the inclusion" actually mean?
Because you big $T$ is confusing and it is defined using some N(s) and all that
That's my exact question @TedShifrin. THe only thing I came up with is the problem I mentioned
@user1294729 I suspect your course that gave you this exercise taught you something rather than giving this exercise out of the blue.
So if you're assuming $g_{y'}$ is the inclusion map, then the exercise is mere tautology. What do you mean by "$g_y$ lies in any open set containing the inclusion"? Are you doing the topology on the function space?
Yes, compact open topology
Ah. OK.
So is this just not asking: If $G$ is continuous, then $G(y,\cdot)$ is close to $G(y',\cdot)$ in the compact-open topology if $y$ is close to $y'$?
20:22
So I have seen the definition for curvature for a unit speed curve and also this representation with $\phi$ I wrote above. But then I need to derive the representation twice and then I don't see how further
Because in you second example you apply the formula from above but I don't see how you found formula.
Yes, that is correct @TedShifrin . But the only thing I don't understand is how does one 'identify' $g_{y'}$ with inclusion for it to make sense to say for $y$ close enough to $y'$, $g_y$ is close enough to inclusion
Well, I have no idea what they mean.
@TedShifrin is this the answer for my comment? and if yes what do you mean by "they"?
No, that was to monoidal.
Okay so I think my question is: If $g_y$ is continuous and for none of the $y$, $g_y$ is inclusion. Is there a way to construct a continuous family $h_y$,which contains each $g_y$ and the inclusion?
because if $g_y$ is already continuous family and for some $y_0$, $g_{y_0}$ is inclusion then the result is clear
20:28
@user1294729 I am not going to do your work for you. If you do not want to understand the way I suggest, then just do your chain rule stuff carefully and follow your formula. I would recommend you try a simpler example first.
@monoidal No. What I suspect they want you to do is compose with the inverse of $g_{y'}$ in the appropriate way so that you then get the inclusion. But you really need to ask the person who wrote the question, not us.
@TedShifrin no I don't want you to do the work for me. But I want to understand if I have the formula for $\beta'(t)$ as I wrote above what does it helps me because I don't see this formula in your script and therefore I'm confused
Yeah, the person that wrote the exam is no longer at the uni and I asked the one teaching the course and he said he'll get back to me, but it's been 3 weeks now
Then I suggest you work on a different problem and let this one go, @monoidal.
Okay Ted. I think that's what I will do.
thanks
for your help. Really
That formula appears, as I said, on p. 14, @user1294729, except I differentiated $\alpha$ rather than $\beta$ because that is physically more natural. $\phi(s(t))=t$ is the connection and so you can differentiate by the chain rule to get $\phi'(s(t))s'(t)=1$. $s'(t)$ is the speed and is the meaningful thing to think about physically, rather than the inverse.
20:35
So would you recommend to read example 2 or page 14
and is your s(t) my \phi(s)?
No. Did you read what I just typed?
Your $\phi$ is the inverse function.
and where do I see this connection? I really have no pre knowledge, we only had one lecture.
I am really lost, I read your pages but I don't see any connection to my knowledge because you use this freemen formulas also on page 14 and we also have not seen those yet @TedShifrin
Are scalar triple products necessary? Surely there's other ways to compute the volume of a parallelepiped right? Why did I learn it? This math ain't mathing
@user1294729 I defined $\alpha(t)=\beta(s(t))$ and you defined $\beta(s) = \alpha(\phi(s))$. Compare those equations carefully.
Hades: Nothing is necessary. If you know about determinants in 3D, then feel free to compute the volume that way. It turns out it's identical to using the scalar triple product.
Physics uses scalar triple products all over the place.
I'm gone for now.
@TedShifrin are the questions you assigned your students for webwork mainly the computational questions from your text?
20:50
@TedShifrin Now I get it. Its just fancy determinants. Should've known when I first saw and heard the name "parallelepiped"
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