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00:00
yeah dodd-frank me my tax haven in switzerland
dodd-frank me that
coming your way faster than a chinese real estate market crash
youre misapplying, and mixing two unrelated talking points you must have picked up on cnn
like, what is it you're defending? unbridled capitalism?
or letting 10% of your population die from covid?
those aren't fun times
winny the pooh, however
10% of my population did not, in fact, die from covid
a virus, I'll remind you, that most likely leaked out of a military lab in a little town halfway across the world by the name of Wuhan
and conspiracy theory. unbridled capitalism and conspiracy theories
smh
in your worker's paradise
thats right. you got nothing
00:08
^ removed distasteful meme
you got nothing.. :-)
well, moneyless is still more money than 300k of student debt
ayyyy
here's an interesting subject, the college bubble
I like the German system, to some extent here
ah yes, the social democratic party
and their authoritarian roots
particularly I like the vocational training. Not every kid is university material, and there's absolutely no justification to going to college to study pottery at a price tag of $60K/year
youre very difficult to talk to, I have to be frank
00:12
Hi. I'm just going to advertise a now room to replace the room, "Constructive Feedback" - which will be closed soon.

 Helpful Commentary

Do you want constructive feedback for your Mathematics Stack E...
you're the one saying things like communism as authoritarian roots, I'm just saying it again for comedic and rhetoric effect heheh
you really, REALLY, need to open a history book
history is my strong subject, try me
youre also knowingly misapplying and mixing subjects up, making you a very difficult co-conversationalist
sorry, just bantering heheh
00:18
Hi
hello!
Let $\mathcal L^n_+$ the set of all $n$-dimensional nonnegative vectors $\mathbf X = (X_1, X_2,\cdot\cdot\cdot,X_n)^⊤$
let $\mathbf Ψ^{(n)}$ the class of all $C^{\infty}$ functions from $\Bbb R^n_+$ to $[0, 1]$
Then $\zeta(\mathbf X)$ of the vector $\mathbf X$ with $F$ is:
 
3 hours later…
03:56
missing some information there.
no, that's where you pick up the story. it's your turn
04:13
twice upon a time, there was a handsome prick
just returned from a short trip to my country of origin, returned with a head cold, just for old times sake.
This chat room has never been more exciting
Hope it’s not you-know-what. Welcome home!
04:56
Hey. I have the following theorem: Prove the following version of the Mean-Value Theorem: If $f(x, y)$ has first partial derivatives continuous near every point of the straight line segment joining the points $(a, b)$ and $(a+h, b+k)$, then there exists a number $\theta$ satisfying $0<\theta<1$ such that
$$
\begin{aligned}
f(a+h, b+k)= & f(a, b)+h f_1(a+\theta h, b+\theta k) \\
& +k f_2(a+\theta h, b+\theta k)
\end{aligned}
$$
This part: the first partial derivatives are continuous near every point of the straight line segment joining the points $(a, b)$ and $(a+h, b+k)$

Does it mean the partial derivatives are continuous in $(a,b)$?
I am using a similar theorem to prove continuous partial derivatives implies differentiability in $\mathbb{R}^2$ But using the theorem i just wrote above shouldn't work and I don't see clearly why.
05:22
Suppose that there is a field F. Let's say that it is totally ordered (i.e., partially ordered + Trichotomy condition). Can we say that i) $a>b\implies a+c>b+c$ and ii) $a>b, c>0\implies ac>bc$?
The field that is totally ordered and also satisfies i) and ii) is called ordered field. $\mathbb C$ is not ordered.
@Odestheory12 No, continuous on the entire line segment.
But my confusion is: is totally ordered equivalent to 'totally ordered + (i)+(ii)'?
05:39
@TedShifrin Thanks :) I found my question in MSE and woola, guess who answered it :)
1
Q: Different versions of mean value theorem in several variables

schnAccording to Calculus: A complete course by Adams & Essex, a version of the mean value theorem in several variables is given by If $f_1(a,b)$ and $f_2(a,b)$ [notation for partial derivatives] are continuous in a neighbourhood of the point $(a,b)$, and if the absolute values of $h$ and $k$ are...

 
3 hours later…
08:27
@Koro Looks like that your browser is rendering it as MathML. You right click the formula, and select other rendering modes.
@Yai0Phah thanks a lot!! I followed the suggestion and selected 'Common HTML' and deselected 'HTML CSS'. Now mathjax looks normal. :)
08:58
@DannyNiu Do complex numbers pop up frequently in software development? They are not necessarily ubiquitous IMHO, so I wonder your context.
09:53
@Yai0Phah really depends on what kind of software development. The general answer is no but there are areas where they'll pop up.
They're much more common in electrical engineering.
can I ask some matlab question here ?
 
2 hours later…
11:28
hi everyone, in quadratic programming, the general form of the objective function is
Is Q a symmetric matrix?
and why there is 1/2?
12:25
@Goku This was not a general question, but to understand the context that they raise the question about the ubiquity of complex numbers, which cannot be answered without specific motivation.
@CroCo Usually Q is symmetric, but it is not necessary, since you can replace any non-symmetric Q by (Q+QˆT)/2.
 
1 hour later…
13:41
@Goku Sure. Doubling the cube is one of the classic unconstructible problems. "the nonexistence of a compass-and-straightedge solution was finally proven by Pierre Wantzel in 1837. [...] the degree of the field extension generated by a constructible point must be a power of 2"
> but even in ancient times solutions were known that employed other tools.
The search for proofs that cube duplication and angle trisection are unconstructible eventually led to more general questions about polynomial roots, which led to Galois theory.
Here's a little diagram that illustrates that $\tan^{-1}(1)+\tan^{-1}(2)+\tan^{-1}(3)=\pi$ and $\tan^{-1}(1)+\tan^{-1}(1/2)+\tan^{-1}(1/3)=\pi/2$.
14:26
@PM2Ring I've encountered several special cases of this diagram where the central angle is some multiple of 15
14:54
@Goku Ok. Of course, 15° is easy to construct. Annoyingly, 1° requires trisection, but 1.5° is constructible. Generally, if the trig ratio is nice, the angle is ugly, and vice versa, except for the handful of well-known cases.
OTOH, we can easily find nice relations of the form $\tan^{-1}(1/c)=\tan^{-1}(1/a)+\tan^{-1}(1/b)$, where $a,b,c$ are integers. These are useful to compute pi from the Taylor series for arctan.
In the old days, when people did this stuff by hand, or using primitive calculators, it was less work to compute arctan of integer reciprocals because all the numerators in the series are 1. It's still kinda handy on computers if you want to compute lots of digits of pi, although there are other ways to do arctan, especially if you have cheap sqrt.
I guess some of those constructible polygons aren't so well-known. Gauss did some impressive work on the Fermat prime polygons when he was still quite young, which established him as an outstanding geometer & mathematician. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructible_polygon
But getting back to arctans, let $c^2+1=df$. That is, $d,f$ are a factor pair of $c^2+1$. Let $a=c+d, b=c+f$. Then $\tan^{-1}(1/c)=\tan^{-1}(1/a)+\tan^{-1}(1/b)$
Using the sum of tan identity, $c=(ab-1)/(a+b)$
machination.eclipse.co.uk has a huge collection of such identities. It writes $\tan^{-1}(1/x)$ as $[x]$. In that notation, my diagram illustrates $[1]=[2]+[3]$.
Let $c=2$. Then $(d,f)=(1,5)$. Thus $[2]=[3]+[7]$
15:25
@PM2Ring Define "nice". I kind of like $\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{1+\sqrt{2}}$. (or whatever) :D
Nested radicals get a bit messy after a while. But I agree that the trig ratios of 15° & 75° are ok, and deserve to be more well-known.
A few months ago, a visitor to this room (or maybe just the main site) wanted cos(56°). Pity they didn't want cos(57°).
@PM2Ring Years ago, I designed a worksheet for a precalc/trig class which walked students through finding trig ratios related to $\pi/5$. It was fun. I like that construction / argument.
@PM2Ring D'oh!
I've spent a lot of time playing with the trig ratios related to the pentagon & dodecahedron... :)
A moderately interesting question which I have never really had time to think about in any detail: if you can only approximate trig ratios using dyadic multiples of $\pi$, $\pi/3$, and $\pi/5$, how quickly can you get approximations to converge?
@PM2Ring I've spent time thinking about trig rations related to the pentagram! HAIL SATIN!
(Yes, satin. It is so soft and comfy.)
15:36
I tend to use the pentagon a lot for angles that are multiples of 6
I made that in 2006. :)
In fact a lot of mg favorite geometry/angle chasing problems are solved by inscribing the triangle into a Pentagon
@XanderHenderson Well, you can easily get 3°=30°+45°-72°. If you want finer granularity you need bisection. I suppose there will be optimal strategies, but I haven't spent much time looking for them, compared to the time I've spent messing around with Machin-like identities.
@PM2Ring Right, that's why I specified dyadic multiples.
And the rate of convergence is what interests me, i.e. how quickly can you use bisection to approximate $\sin(\theta)$?
In any event, I need to get on the road. Later, all. I may or may not be around much for the next couple of weeks.
@XanderHenderson Understood. I expect that it's a messy problem. Like a quadratic version of Egyptian fraction decompositions.
@XanderHenderson Happy trails!
15:53
@PM2Ring Yeah, that's exactly my feeling about it.
Anywho, I am gone.
*smoke bomb*
OTOH, there's an efficient way to do arcsin, using the arithmetic-geometric mean.
You can use that algorithm with Newton's method to compute sin.
2 weeks back I did a factorisation for a problem, and had noted down the result of it (which at that time felt obvious to me) and today, when I re check the results and try to re factorise it, i wasnt able to do it, and the idea clicked a few 10 mins later
But it didn't feel obvious
Is this sign of me becoming dumber?
who cares about being dumb just do the math
16:08
Something that I found obvious 2 weeks back doesn't seem so now isn't that alarming
@nickbros123 Not really. When you looked at it today, your brain didn't have the same context that it had when you worked on the factorisation two weeks ago. Writing notes can be helpful to remind you of the context. Similarly, programmers write comments to provide context for tricky pieces of code.
Can anyone help me see why $\int \psi(\mathbf x)dF(\mathbf x)=E\psi(\mathbf X)$?
$\mathbf X$ is a random vector and $dF(\mathbf x)$ Steljies notation where $F$ is a CDF and $\psi(\mathbf x)$ is a measurable function from positive reals to $[0,1]$
here's what i know: $\int x f_X(x)~dx=E[f]$
and $\int \psi(\mathbf x) f_{\mathbf X}(\mathbf x)~d\mathbf x=E\psi(\mathbf X)$
 
2 hours later…
18:29
I hate when I start writing an answer and after 10/15 minutes of writing OP deletes it
18:52
yeah, that happened the last time i tried to answer something. bleh
Or somebody else posts the answer using the same method as you because you weren't fast enough
This is why I almost never answer new questions
19:09
Those sound like crummy excuses to me.
19:28
in ted's day, only one person could hold the clay tablets at a time, so these issues of the OP deleting the question while it was being answered didn't come up.
@TedShifrin You won't like the real reason. I'm too lazy. I have "saved" about 50 geometry questions that I know for sure I can answer easily. Why haven't I? Too lazy.
the issue of OP deleting basically does not come up if the question is more than a few days old. that can be a useful filter.
exchange OP deleting the question for OP never accepting the answer
I figure I have several hundred answers that have never been accepted.
some of us have a higher need for acceptance than others. you can guess about mine.
19:40
Munchkin accepts you.
her acceptance of me often depends on whether i'm letting her do whatever she wants.
And you always do.
a lot of the time, yeah.
clears throat
I don't know what Munchkin is
And at this point I'm too afraid to ask
19:44
its my daughter's legal name.
Ohh
it is also a type of cat
they're funny looking because they have short legs
I'm telling you right now Math.SE is secretly a cat cult. We just operate as an innocent looking math Q/A site on the surface
My cat is currently "hiding" in my top desk drawer.
I wonder what percentage of Pets.SE users are also part of Math.SE
19:54
I've never looked at Pets.SE.
I looked at anime/manga.SE. Now I regret it
20:13
a while ago olivia accidentally trapped herself in my dresser by jumping into an open drawer with such momentum that it closed by itself. i didn't find her for about 20 minutes.
Maybe she didn't want to be found.
yeah, i only began looking when i heard meowing. maybe she took a 15 minute nap
20:36
in The h Bar, Nov 27 at 3:34, by PM 2Ring
@JohnRennie There's a fairly new Greg Egan short story, available free online. https://www.gregegan.net/BIBLIOGRAPHY/Online.html https://clarkesworldmagazine.com/egan_04_22 (although financial contributions to Clarkesworld are welcome). Dream Factory is set in the very near future. It involves YouTube, Bluetooth, and cats.
@Goku Unless they say exactly the same thing you can just post you answer. What about writing 3 paragraphs and see "this question has been deleted" pop up? :P
And then there are the people who post questions and delete (lest they be discovered to be cheating) as soon as a comment or answer helps them out.
This is an interesting probability question.
20:53
> Where are mathematicians buried?
The Symmetry.
 
2 hours later…
22:29
So this is a probability question which I keep confusing myself with. I start in one of two states 0, 1 with equal probability. If I start in state 1, I then change to state 0 with probability p and otherwise remain in state 1. What is the probability that, with certainty, I can deduce which state I started in?
I think it should just be p/2. But when p=0, neither state changes and I can always deduce which state I start with.
How can you possibly be certain? And saying "I" everywhere is confusing. You know which state you started in. You mean an uninformed observer.
What if you start in state 0?
This is badly written.
I literally am typing on my phone, so deal
LOL ... you deal.
22:36
But I’ll try again. I have two coins, one which only gives heads and the other which is unfair: heads with probability p and otherwise tails. I put one coin in each hand and have someone pick between them. I then flip that coin and reveal the result. What’s the probability they can deduce which coin they picked?
OK, this time there's a bit more information.
"deduce" is a weird word to me here. aren't they always just guessing (maybe according to some rule hopefully maximizing the probability of being right), and you're asking the probability they guessed right?
No, deduction. If they get tails, they definitely picked the unfair coin. But if they get heads, they may have picked either coin. So that would lead me to (1-p)/2. (I think I mixed up p vs 1-p in my original formulation.)
Originally he asked for "certainty." It seems to me the only time there's certainty is if $p=0$.
Yeah, I forgot the word certainly here
22:40
There's certainty only if you toss tails. I don't get it.
Are you asking for the probability that you toss tails?
That’s certainly what I think it should be. But if p=0, then the observer can tell which coin I flipped regardless of the outcome
Which will not be the probability to get tails
I don't follow. Does the observer know $p$ and the situation a priori?
Yes. I guess I should have said that I tell them about the coins ahead of time
As I said, this is all badly written.
Then you are right and I was wrong. But I think I'm done.
I am translating this from a quantum problem so it’s a bit annoying
23:28
can someone explain to me why you need orientability here?
4
A: Manifold as zero locus of smooth functions

ThomasLocally this is always true. If you have an embedded $k$ dimensional submanifold of $\mathbb{R}^n$ then you can write the manifold locally as a graph over it's tangent plane, i.e. $$M\cap U = \{(x_{k+1} , \dots, x_n) = (f_{k+1}(x_1, \dots,x_k), \dots, f_{n}(x_1, \dots,x_k)\}$$ where the coordinat...

What is your question, precisely?
well, I'm trying to prove that every $n-1$ dimensional orientable smooth submanifold in $\mathbb R^n$ is the zero locus of a smooth function
Compact or not necessarily?
not necessarily
And are you trying to prove that 0 is a regular value of said function?
23:38
well I have the result locally due to the implicit function theorem
Without compact, you need orientability. What about an (infinite) Möbius strip?
what is an infinite mobius strip?
If 0 is a regular value (which is the usual set-up), then the normal bundle will be orientable, so the submanifold has to be orientable.
I want a Möbius strip that's got no boundary but is still a closed subset.
Actually, as it's stated it's totally false.
what definition of manifold are you using?
Back up. Your statement is false with any definition.
What I was just talking about shows you why.
Forget smooth. What about zero locus of a continuous function?
23:42
oh but we only need the function to be defined in a neighborhood of the manifold
Well, you're changing the game as we go along. Still, level sets are (relatively) closed subsets.
And you need to answer my question about 0 being a regular value.
no the professor didn't ask to prove that 0 is a regular value
Well, any set at all is the zero set of a smooth function.
Any closed subset.
my intuition for this manifold stuff is terrible
I can't respond to that.
Do you know about partitions of unity?
23:49
yes I do, in the previous exercise I just proved that they exist
but no I can't figure out how to use a partition of unity to get this result
especially the orientability stuff
I believe your professor does want $0$ to be a regular value because otherwise there's nothing special about a submanifold. Next, orientability is required to glue together local functions and make sure you still have $0$ as a regular value for the resulting sum.
he forgot to write that down, clearly, which is typical
What book are you using?
Spivak Calculus on Manifolds
Terrible book for beginners.
23:53
this is a differential forms class actually
So it assumed you knew multivariable analysis to start with?
yeah, on $\mathbb R^n$ but I think you aren't expected to know anything about manifolds at the beginning of the semester
Strange choice of textbook for such a course.
Anyhow, partitions of unity is the whole point. Glue together local functions. The question is: Why do you get $0$ only along the submanifold?
Try it even with curves in the plane, so you can draw clear pictures.
I thought if I had a function $f:A\to R$ and $g:B\to R$ I could use the function $f(x)\phi_1(x)+g(x)+\phi_2(x)$ or something like that to get a function on the union of $A,B$ but that doesn't use the orientability so it must be wrong

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