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12:39 AM
Evaluating the Taylor's polynomial of third degree with center in 0 of the inverse of f:R->R defined by f(x)=x+sinh(x), I found out that it is P(y)=y/2-y^3/(3!*8)+o(y^3), however my textbook says that it is P(y)=y/2-y^3/(3!*16)+o(y^3). I checked my calculations a lot of times and I can't find that 1/2 factor that is missing in the y^3 term, can someone tell me if the textbook is wrong or am I wrong because I am going insane?)
 
1:14 AM
i get /(3!*4), so now we have 3 answers.
hooray :)
 
1:36 AM
Hahaha that made me laugh, it was unexpected, thanks for this and the help leslie)
 
2:01 AM
@Sonozaki Do you know what the inverse function of $x+ax^3$ is to order $x^3$?
Try $\left(x-ax^3\right)+a\left(x-ax^3\right)^3$
or $\left(x+ax^3\right)-a\left(x+ax^3\right)^3$
 
2:29 AM
@Sonozaki Checking it numerically, your textbook is right
 
booo
you could have voted for me, akiva. i'll remember this.
 
I think the key is an extra factor of $1/(1+\cosh(0))=1/2$? @Sonozaki
from a chain rule somewhere
I have $x=y+\sinh y$, $~dx/dy=1/(1+\cosh y)$, $~d^2x/dy^2=-\sinh y/(1+\cosh y)^3$
and that last one near $(x,y)=(0,0)$ is around $-y/8$ or $-x/16$
meaning $d^3x/dy^3$ at $x=0$ is $-1/8\cdot dx/dy=-1/16$
Wait
I meant $dy/dx$ etc for all of those
Sorry I was doing the logic with the letters reversed and I decided to switch them at the last moment
but didn't switch them fully
*I have $x=y+\sinh y$, $~dy/dx=1/(dx/dy)=1/(1+\cosh y)$, $~d^2y/dx^2=d/dx(dy/dx)=d/dy(dy/dx)\cdot dy/dx=-\sinh y/(1+\cosh y)^3$
 
3:29 AM
$f(2x)=x+\sinh(x)=2x+\frac{x^3}6$
$f(x)=x+\frac{x^3}{48}$
$f^{-1}(x)=x-\frac{x^3}{48}$
$f^{-1}(x)/2=\frac{x}2-\frac{x^3}{96}$
 
 
7 hours later…
10:43 AM
0
Q: What are some nice topics in undergraduate mathematics to write about?

bumblebeeAs a high school student, I will soon be going on to do the IB(college equivalent). As part of the IB curriculum we are expected to write an Extended Essay(EE) that counts towards our grade. For the EE we are expected to motive a question on a subject, or particular topic, and write a paper answe...

Any suggestions would be great!
 
10:59 AM
@bumblebee "what hill would a ball roll down fastest from"?
 
@bumblebee Axiom of choice.
 
11:18 AM
@CalvinKhor Sorry but I can't go with that. Malpractice.
@Prithubiswasleftmse interesting...let me think about.
 
@bumblebee Maybe that topic is a bit too boring, so I take back my suggestion =(
 
11:36 AM
@bumblebee lol what do you mean malpractice
@bumblebee it was a serious suggestion lol and the answer may surprise you but I don't know good references
 
Hola chat
I'm trying to re-learn Linear Algebra. A quick question:
Say there is a point denoted as $(3,2)$. It can represent a vector, where its tail is at the plane's origin. (If the standard basis is used, then it can represent "the only" corresponding vector on the plane.) So far so good. Now the video I'm watching said that: So the coordinate $(3, 2)$ can be seen as scalars that multiply the basis, and the resulting vector is the result of adding all the vectors together. E.g. if standard basis is used then $(3, 2)=(1,0)\cdot3 + (0,1)\cdot2$.
So, I would like to know more about the part I bolded, i.e. "adding all the vectors together". What does it imply?
By intuition, all components(?not sure about the correct term, for a component I mean either $3$ or $2$ of $(3,2)$) of a given vector are mutually independent
They're independent, but we can add them. Sounds like a contradiction.
@robjohn: Help me...
Sorry for the ping, if it's annoying...
 
12:10 PM
@linear_combinatori_probabi $\vec{x}$ and $\vec{y}$ are dependent if there are constants $a$ and $b$, not both $0$, so that $a\vec{x}+b\vec{y}=\vec{0}$.
They are independent otherwise.
I see no contradiction by saying that if two vectors are independent, we can add them.
 
Thanks for your explanation. I need some time to think about this.
I was implementing a machine learning model, and each input of the model can be represented by a bunch of vectors. More specifically, these vectors are column vectors. Thus, each batch is now represented by a matrix.
Let me pick an example, possibly nonsense, but anyway:
Say the dataset is about cats. A cat has many features: height, weight, color of skin, etc.
So we can use a vector $(1,0,2,3,...)$ to represent all the features of a cat, given that each category is mapped to a non-negative number for each feature.
For me, it's no meaning to "adding all the vectors together", when I was considering my statement above.
Which leads to my confusion.
 
Say you want to compute the "average cat". Then you would add all the vectors for all the cats together, then divide that vector by the number of cats.
 
12:28 PM
That's reasonable. But how about each vector itself when it can be represented as "adding all the (coordinate) vectors (each scaled by a scalar)"?
 
$3\begin{bmatrix}1\\0\end{bmatrix}+5\begin{bmatrix}0\\1\end{bmatrix}=\begin{bmatrix}3\\5\end{bmatrix}$
 
Sorry that my cat example might be not easy to generate some examples. This question might be a bad question too.
But this kind of confusion always there in my head when I was learning math...
 
could someone cleverer than me explain why all the mice can't just be unrelated ibb.co/Yh8tx88 ?
in other words, how does this puzzle make sense?
 
So, by adding $\begin{bmatrix}1\\0\end{bmatrix}$ and $\begin{bmatrix}0\\1\end{bmatrix}$, independent things/objects are added. While the result is "one vector", it doesn't actually combine anything. It just "organize" indepent things decently.
 
@linear_combinatori_probabi what do you mean by "combine"? it looks like there are two vectors being combined here.
 
12:42 PM
a vector of "A cat has two ears", adding one "A cat has four legs", resulting in one vector "A cat has two ears and four legs". But it's strange to use the word "add" on legs and ears
 
is it just really obvious?
 
@linear_combinatori_probabi you are confusing the vector with the interpretation of the data represented by the vector. A vector is simply a collection of numbers, interpretation can be given to those numbers, but a vector does not have anything to do with any of those interpretations.
Just because I say that the pressure is 14.7 psi, does not imbue the number 14.7 with any given units. I can add 14.7 to 4.2 as they are just numbers.
 
I think I worked it out
 
Yes, reality has restricted my imagination.
 
@graffe Is there some assumption not given in that passage?
 
12:47 PM
@graffe Sorry for ignoring your question, let me take a look now
It looks like a question that intended to be solved pigeon-hole theorem
@graffe I got exactly same question as you pointed out
I think the word "colony" should resolve this confusion(? or not)
Wow, this question is actually interesting to me.
$a_1\dots a_{n+1}$ has provided ${n+1\choose 2}-n$-many mice satisfying (a).
 
1:04 PM
@robjohn that's the whole question
@linear_combinatori_probabi thanks!
 
OK, I need to take out the trash first, then I will be back to try solving this question
 
@linear_combinatori_probabi cool
 
1:16 PM
@CalvinKhor I have seen the animations of balls moving down different shaped lines before. Sorry, I didn't mean to say malpractice. I've just been warned against getting research questions from external parties. The person who warned me called it malpractice.
@Prithubiswasleftmse DON'T TAKE IT BACK! I don't think it's boring, I just mean't that I wanted a few more options to consider before choosing! This is the problem with chatting online, it's hard to judge tone.
 
1:45 PM
Observation: both 4'20" (aka 5'8") and 69' (aka 5'9") are relatively normal heights for a person to be
@bumblebee Perhaps discrete differential geometry
^a good source
Questions like: how to define and measure things like mean curvature and Gaussian curvature of polyhedra?
 
Thanks Akiva. I'll take a look
 
I suppose it's helpful if you learn what mean curvature and Gaussian curvature are for smooth surfaces first
I don't remember if it's in the series or not (probably is)
This one probably goes into it
 
@bumblebee here are some comments/ideas. Hope you don't mind the inundation 1) RSA and public key cryptography. Not super original here but an interesting topic with a lot of resources. 2) square the circle/double the cube/ Galois theory. Some really old and famous questions proved ~100 yeah ago that are interesting.
I have like 8 more but they length capped me. Let me know if you want them
 
Please do share Nico!
 
3) Knot coloring and other simple knot/link invariants. This is a fun topic with results you can definitely grasp but that are still meaningful (I.e. taught in medium level college courses). 4) Fibonacci numbers, identities, and different definitions. Again not original but interesting and with a lot of room to grow as a mathematician. There are tons of definitions of the Fibonacci numbers that are different and allow you to see them in a new light+ tons of simple theorems.
5) same as the last but Catalan numbers. Probably more creative and just as interesting with easy resources. 6) Basics of Combinatorial Game Theory. If you don’t know what that is, that’s totally normal. Look it up on Wikipedia and see what you think. There are a lot of ways to take it, Trina deep dive into a game like chess to a general overview of a certain type of game. If I had done one it would have probably been on something like this.
7) Poker/games of chance. Combinatorial game theory is games of no chance. Have a game of chance you like? Look into the strategy. 8) non-Euclidean geometry. Yeah not creative as a topic but again a lot to explore+ history. Could focus on Euclid’s fifth postulate or something like that. 9) Bertrands paradox. Now been on numberphile twice so might not be original. If you have any interest in probability this could be interesting.
10) Russell’s paradox and foundations of math. Could look at different “solutions” to the problem (I. E. Intuitionism, ZFC, other axiomatic systems…). As a note, axiom of choice is definitely a good choice too, but may not be quite as motivated for a high schooler. Just depends on how much experience you have
 
1:52 PM
I can also recommend knot theory
Knot Knotes is a good place to learn about it
 
Thank so much you guys! ☺️
 
Suppose we have a diagram of a knot or a link (a loop or multiple loops), colored in three colors (above: blue, orange, and white) such that at every crossing, there are either three colors or only one color. As a knot or link moves in space, its diagram (projection onto a plane) can change. How does that sort of transformation affect its coloring?
If two knots have a different number of ways they can be colored (with the above rule), can they be the same knot?
@bumblebee Hilbert's third problem is also a fun topic. I think Numberphile's done a video on it? Basically: it turns out that of I give you any two polygons with the same area, you can cut one into pieces and rearrange it to get the second polygon. (They are called "scissors-equivalent".) Is the same true in 3D? Can, for example, a cube and a regular tetrahedron of the same volume be cut and rearranged into each other? Turns out, no! The proof is pretty fun.
Another thing (you're gonna be drowning in topics, sorry) is Niven's one-page proof that pi is irrational. It's a very condensed proof, and an expanded explainer could be nice. It does require calculus, though - I don't know if you know it already or not.
 
@bumblebee well I dont see what the difference is between what I did and what prithu did ._.
 
@CalvinKhor wdym?
 
Another idea: the Mercator projection. What is it (formulas, properties, history)?
For example, it is the only projection that preserves angles and such that north is always up.
 
2:04 PM
@AkivaWeinberger If you don't mind, could you continue to spoil me with more ideas. Thanks.
 
(If Google maps used a projection that doesn't preserve angles, if you zoom into your city you might find that rectangular buildings become parallelograms!)
If you know about complex numbers, this sentence might make sense (don't worry if not): the Mercator projection is the complex logarithm of the stereographic projection.
You can also talk about other map projections and their properties.
 
@bumblebee I was suggesting an idea like your Q asked for, but its "warned against getting research questions from external parties" for my suggestion and thanks for the other suggestion. But whatever, its not important
 
Fun fact: in 2D, there's a lot of angle-preserving projections, but in higher dimensions (from hyperspheres), there's only a small family of angle-preserving projections (basically just stereographic from different points). There is no hyper-Mercator
 
@CalvinKhor Forgive me.
 
Speaking of spheres, you could do some spherical geometry
Like this thing
Pentagramma mirificum (Latin for miraculous pentagram) is a star polygon on a sphere, composed of five great circle arcs, all of whose internal angles are right angles. This shape was described by John Napier in his 1614 book Mirifici Logarithmorum Canonis Descriptio (Description of the Admirable Table of Logarithms) along with rules that link the values of trigonometric functions of five parts of a right spherical triangle (two angles and three sides). The properties of pentagramma mirificum were studied, among others, by Carl Friedrich Gauss. == Geometric properties == On a sphere, both...
 
2:07 PM
@bumblebee no worries m8 keep on keeping on
 
and the fact that if a sphere has curvature $k$ (defined to be $1/R^2$ where $R$ is the radius), the area of a triangle is completely determined by its angles: $kA=\alpha+\beta+\gamma-\pi$ where $\alpha,\beta,\gamma$ are the angles in radians
 
Any ideas @CalvinKhor
 
(This technically works on the plane, too, with curvature $k=0$.)
 
you mean besides the calculus of variations problem?
 
Graph theory could be fun. On any connected planar graph, #vertices-#edges+#faces=1 ($V-E+F=1$). This is Euler's formula. It also has uses in topology (on a sphere you get $2$, on a torus you get $0$)
 
2:11 PM
@CalvinKhor yup!
 
oh, do you know any probability? random graphs are cool
 
Or number theory. Start with modular arithmetic and Fermat's little theorem (not to be confused with Fermat's last theorem), try to see if you can build up to something like the AKS primality test
 
@CalvinKhor only GCSE/IB probability. That doesn't matter though. I have a whole year to research and learn.
 
Another topic: Penrose tilings and related things like Ammann bars (two 'n's) and the Gummelt decagon
 
@Prithubiswasleftmse share some ideas too!
 
2:15 PM
It's an "aperiodic tiling", meaning it never repeats. Despite that, it has "quasi-10-fold rotational symmetry", meaning if you're dropped on a random part of it and can only see a finite neighborhood around you, you can only determine your orientation up to a tenth of a turn
(and also true 5-fold rotational symmetry from one point. You can't have 5-fold rotational symmetry from multiple points, though)
 
theres a cool proof method where you prove something exists by showing it happens with positive probability, but without any way of finding it
The probabilistic method is a nonconstructive method, primarily used in combinatorics and pioneered by Paul Erdős, for proving the existence of a prescribed kind of mathematical object. It works by showing that if one randomly chooses objects from a specified class, the probability that the result is of the prescribed kind is strictly greater than zero. Although the proof uses probability, the final conclusion is determined for certain, without any possible error. This method has now been applied to other areas of mathematics such as number theory, linear algebra, and real analysis, as well as...
 
You can talk about things like computability theory, the halting problem, and the Church–Turing thesis
 
@bumblebee or perhaps you could discuss why a drunk man will eventually find his way home, but a drunk bird will be lost forever (almost surely)
 
> The concept 'computable' is in a certain definite sense 'absolute', while practically all other familiar metamathematical concepts (e.g. provable, definable, etc.) depend quite essentially on the system to which they are defined. - Gödel
 
@AkivaWeinberger @CalvinKhor Things are probably gonna get very crowded here. I might also end up losing track. If you do have any more ideas, please share them here: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/136459/ajay-personal-room
@TedShifrin Do you have any interesting ideas?
Haven't talked to you for a while now.
 
2:33 PM
haha ok :) @bumblebee
 
Jam
3:25 PM
consider the polynomial with roots $i\sqrt{3}$ and $1+i\sqrt{3}$ $f(x)=x^4 -2x^3+7x^2-6x+12$. does there exist a Q isomorphism that send $i\sqrt{3}$ to $1+i\sqrt{3}$ ?
i know the rest roots are the conjugate numbers
and my polynomial splits at $\mathbb{Q}(i\sqrt{3})$
which is a 2 degree extension so there are 2 Q automorphisms
one is the id
why the other cant it be the one that is beeing asked for?
does there exist Q-automorphism**
 
but isn't the other complex conjugation? long time since i studied any of this.
the main site has a few questions like this every couple of months. might be worth looking for others of this type. it isn't easily amenable to search terms, but maybe 'splitting' 'automorphism' 'root' or the like.
 
Jam
well since it will be a group of two elements makes sense the other one to be to the conjugate
so applying the map again i get the id
well it has to be a root of the minimal polynomial i used
which doesnt have root the 1+isqrt3
so ok thats it
is short 1+isqrt(3) and isqrt3 are not the roots of a single minimal polynomial
but my theory says it permutes the roots of my polynomial not the minimal necessary
 
The polynomial fails to be irreducible, so the Galois group won't be transitive.
 
it is no surprise that ted remembers this stuff.
i even still have my galois theory book/notes, both undergrad and grad version. survived all USPS mishandling. for all the good it did me.
 
3:43 PM
I did all my galois homework following algorithms with virtually no understanding :') and got a pretty good score. Didn't push through to taking the exams..
 
Jam
Can i use the argument that the splitting field of the minimal polynomial with roots +-isqrt3 is the same as the splitting field of the given polynomial then a Q-automorphism must take a root of the minimal to root of the minimal again so i cant have such a Q -automorphism
cant find the transitive condition on the galois group on my notes
 
there were a few months in around the year 2000 when i understood the basics and even some stuff about extensions that are 'bad' for the basic theory. had MSE existed i could have answered those questions.
i don't want to blame it all on 9/11, but it didn't help
 
@Jam $i\sqrt3$ satisfies $t^2+3=0$. $~1+i\sqrt3$ does not. Therefore no automorphism of $\Bbb Q$ sends one to the other
 
Jam
thanks i think i got it
 
Sometimes I think writing $\sqrt{-3}$ rather than $i\sqrt3$ is clearer, in this sort of thing
 
3:56 PM
@graffe Did you solve it? I fell asleep.
 
In Galois theory, at least, I don't particularly care what the real and imaginary parts are, but I care about its algebraic properties (it squares to $-3$)
 
Jam
how to prove $Q(\sqrt{2})$ and$ Q(\sqrt{3}) $are no Q-isoimorphic using the fact they are splitting fields of $x^2-2$and $x^2-3$
 
akiva: yeah. any 'ambiguity' seen in the notation is reflected in, well, there's a Q-automorphism sending one to the other. i read a smart thread on either MSE or MO about this once.
it's not hard to do that 'bare-handed' by showing that Q(sqrt(2)) doesn't have anything that squares to 3, or vice versa. that may not be the most illuminating way of doing the exercise.
 
Jam
there must be a theorem saying again a Q isomorphism would take sqrt2 to itself or negative and since it is a linear map should take a basis to a basis so it cant map any element to sqrt3 ?? maybe i dont know
 
i feel like that would have made a certain lightbulb in me flicker if the wires joining it to mains didnt already decay years ago
 
4:06 PM
@Jam You need to show $(a+b\sqrt2)^2\ne3$ for all rational $a,b$
 
Jam
ya thats one way
i wanted to use the machinary with splitting fields and extentions
extensions*
 
I think there isn't, because $\Bbb Q(\sqrt2)$ and $\Bbb Q(\sqrt8)$ are isomorphic and so you need something that works for your case but not these
It turns out that $\Bbb Q(\sqrt a)=\Bbb Q(\sqrt b)$ ($a,b\in\Bbb Q$) iff $ab$ is a square in $\Bbb Q$
 
Jam
i think i can say there are at most 2 Q isomorphisms
 
I think
 
Again: Any $\Bbb Q$-auto sends a root of an irreducible poly to another root.
 
Jam
4:10 PM
ok nice and sqrt2 doesnt belong
 
as ted notes, we may be ignoring that the automorphism is a Q-automorphism.
 
Jam
to my second field
ok thanks Ted
 
@Jam You don't know that. You claim $\sqrt2\notin\Bbb Q(\sqrt3)$ but it's not obvious
 
Jam
Akiva you are right ofc ill prove it
you cant write sqrt2 as a+bsqrt3
 
The key is that $2$, $3$, and $6$ are all not squares
 
4:11 PM
you're not a square.
 
Jam
the elements of that field are of the form a+bsqrt3 so i can prove there doesnt exist rationals a,b such that sqrt2 is a combination
ye probably ill square the equation
and get to something impossible
 
That just says the fields are different. Why could they not be isomorphic?
 
Jam
as you said x^2-2 is irreducible and sqrt2 must be mapped to itself
or negative
wait i know Q automorphism permutes roots does that hold for Q-isomorphisms
 
Define the words automorphism and isomorphism for me
 
Jam
i mean the the target field is the same
on autos
 
4:16 PM
Oh, right, sure
 
Jam
but i think Q isomorphism permute roots also
so we good
it works ^_^
 
Yeah as long as you're both subsets of some larger field like $\Bbb C$ you're good
 
Jam
would like a nice counterexamle on that
i think it works between any Fields containing Q . A Q-isomorphism will permute a root of the minimal of the one field
 
akiva: this reminds me of a moment in a class on this subject where our professor had a field diagram with two different extensions of a ground field and said: "although we're just drawing this part, remember that they're all contained in [context field]. they're not just flapping in the breeze."
that stuck in my head forever.
far longer than the reason why it mattered that they weren't just doing that
 
Jam
$f(\sigma((a))=0$ for any $\sigma$ Q isomorphism from E to L fields containing Q and $f$ minimal polynomial of E so $\sigma(a) $ also a root
do i need them to be subsets of some algebraic closure?
 
4:25 PM
@Jam If we have $\Bbb Q(\alpha)/\langle\alpha^2=2\rangle$ and $\Bbb Q(\sqrt2)$, in the former the roots of $x^2-2$ are $\alpha,-\alpha$ and in the latter the roots are $\sqrt2,-\sqrt2$
The elements of a field don't have to be (complex) numbers, they can be whatevers, as long as we have a rule for addition and multiplication
 
Jam
is this a counterexample? trying to keep up
these 2 fields are isomorphic but a root doesnt go to a root?
 
A root goes to a root but it's not a permutation
'cause the starting and ending sets of roots are different
 
Jam
do you mean Q/<x^2-2> ?
so one has classes as roots and the other real nbumbers
but they are the same
i think i got it so i have to keep in mind they live inside a common bigger field
good example i have in mind the one with the ponynomials Q/<x^2-2> works too right?
ponynomials hahaha thats cute
 
4:54 PM
hey there chat
sanity check: if $K/k$ is a field extension with transcendence basis $S$, then $K/k(S)$ is an algebraic extension
is this correct?
 
today's field theory day
 
You going to have a field day?
 
@leslietownes I wish. I'm studying this transcendence basis stuff superficially because I need it to prove stuff about rational maps of algebraic varieties
(varieties over alg. closed $k$ + dominant rational maps) $\cong$ (category of finitely generated extensions of $k$)${}^\text{op}$. cute
 
5:20 PM
ahh! varieties
 
6:02 PM
I don't really know what a transcendence basis is
 
akiva: you need them to prove stuff about rational maps of algebraic varieties
 
Start by adjoining (independent) transcendental elements to your field.
 
6:35 PM
you can also stop there.
 
6:57 PM
What does integration really mean in $\Bbb R^2_{\gt 0}?$ From what I understand you're using an additive linear operator in a multiplicative space. Whereas you could just use the geometric integral. What does it mean to mix this additive operator into this multiplicative space? Or is there really nothing to understand?
 
lots of ways to view integration but if you're talking about real valued functions on a space X, you can do something like that as long as X has a sufficiently nice notion of numerical size of subsets of X. it's fine if X has other structure but integration doesn't need to know that. any more than integrals of functions over subsets of R need to care about intervals with only positive numbers vs. those that might contain negative numbers, although that difference might be significant elsewhere.
 
okay
 
 
4 hours later…
11:05 PM
So analytic continuation doesn't work for functions that are in a quasi analytic class
 
For which n is the group $(\mathbb{Z}[i]/n\mathbb{Z}[i])^\times$ cyclic?
 

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