« first day (4181 days earlier)      last day (1137 days later) » 
00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

00:13
I commented. If you know the formula, it would be good to add it to your question.
EM4
EM4
will do it now.
my confusion is how do I get my bounds to use that formula.
 
4 hours later…
04:29
$\sum_{k=1}^n \frac 1k=\int_1^n \frac 1x d[x]=\sum \frac 1{x_k}\times $ jump at $x_k$, where $1=x_1<x_2<...<x_n=n$
hmm, I think that this is correct.
It is a rather gross way of writing the counting measure.
Never mind, found it
But that's correct, right? copper.
$\sum_{k=1}^n \frac 1k=\int_{1^-}^{n^+}\frac 1x d[x]$ was used by Robjohn here math.stackexchange.com/a/3551095/266435.
It is correct, I was thinking Lebesgue integration rather than Riemann Stieltjes where it is an actual function.
I am not exactly sure what the $+,-$ on the limits are meant to signify. The partitions are formed from the entire closed interval usually.
04:49
What $1-$ and $n+$ seem to signify is that we have an interval $[a,b]$ that contains $[1,n]$ such that $a\in (0,1)$ with the assumption that $1/x$ is $0$ at x=0. :(
That's why I wanted to write the version free from 1- and n+.
Could just write ${1 \over 2}, n+{1 \over 2}$ resp.
I have forgotten how the endpoints are treated in RS integration.
I think $(1)$ and $(2)$ in the answer won't be affected at all if we use $1$ and $n$ and lower and upper limits respectively.
I thought you were using the counting measure in a Lebesgue integration as in $\int_{[1,n]} {1 \over x} d|\cdot|(x)$.
Ah, no copper. I don't even know Lebesgue theory yet.
Which is gross, although not as gross as $\int_{[1,n]} {1 \over x} |\cdot|(dx)$.
Measure theory is very useful.
You still need Riemann, but reasoning with the Lebesgue integral is generally much easier.
04:58
and how is mean $0$ useful there in the answer?
Who cares if the mean is not zero?
I know that $\tilde f(x):=\frac 1{b-a}\int_a^x f(t)dt$ is mean of $f$.
But I don't understand why it was used in the answer. :(
It is cute, it allows him to pull the $\log$ out nicely and put the 'discrete' part of the computation to the side.
looks very complicated to me :(
05:14
well, it is not so much complicated as detailed.
05:38
@Koro Since $\mathrm{d}\lfloor x\rfloor$ has a mass of $1$ at each integer, you need to approach from one side or the other to assure that the point is or is not included in the integral.
After an integration by parts, you can drop the direction of approach.
@Koro when the mean is $0$, the integral can be written as a continuous function and that is what allows one to drop the approach direction.
@robjohn professor Rob, how? Can you please elaborate that a little more?
I'm not familiar with it. I think I have never seen mean of a function being used anywhere before except for the exercises that say: "find the mean of this function over [a,b]$, a<b."
Since $\{x\}$ is not continuous, if we simply integrate $\{x\}$, we get a pretty ugly piecewise quadratic function.
However, if we integrate $\{x\}-\frac12$, then we get $\frac12\{x\}^2-\frac12\{x\}$, which is good for all $x$. Note that it is the same at $0$ and $1$
If we consider $[a,a+1],(a$ is integer) interval however, then we get $\int_a^{a+1} \{x\}dt=\int x-a dt= (x-a)^2/2|_a^{a+1}=1/2$
integrating with respect to $\{x\}$ essentially does a summation.
when you integrate by parts, you want to be able to write the integral as a simple function.
@copper.hat no, $\{x\}$ is a sawtooth function
05:51
i mean it is effectively the sum of $n$ integrations written as one.
Oh, you mean $\mathrm{d}\{x\}$
but after integration by parts you have $\{x\}$ on the inside of the integral. Then you integrate it and get an ugly antiderivative, unless you integrate $\{x\}-\frac12$, which gives $\frac{\{x\}^2-\{x\}}2$ (which is good everywhere, not just $[0,1]$).
Then you want to integrate that, and to avoid an ugly antiderivative, you need to add $\frac1{12}$
well, i was being very informal. you are correct.
:(
I don't understand :(
05:58
@Koro Are you comfortable with RS integration?
If not, this is not the place to start.
Yes, I know RS-integration and I also know that $\int_a^b f(t) d(u(x))= \sum f(x_k)\times $ jump at $x_k$, where $a=x_1<x_2<...<x_n=b$ is a partition and $u$ is a unit function. having jump $1$ at $x_i$'s.
Try integrating $\{x\}$ over more than one unit interval. You will see that it is ugly to write out.
$\int_0^x\{t\}\,\mathrm{d}t$
@robjohn I'll do that. Perhaps that will make me understand.
whereas, we can write $\int_0^x\left(\{t\}-\frac12\right)\,\mathrm{d}t=\frac{\{x\}^2-\{x\}}2$
actually, i don't the difference between integrating wrt $\{x\}$ and wrt $\{x\}-{1 \over 2}$.
shifting the $g$ in $\int f dg$ should make no difference surely?
06:05
Integral is $0$ over an integer interval?
Aren't we shifting $f$?
@copper.hat there is no difference between $\mathrm{d}\{x\}$ and $\mathrm{d}\left(\{x\}-\frac12\right)$
$\int_0^x\{t\}dt= \int t-[t] dt=\int_0^x t \, dt -\int_0^x [t]\,dt=x^2/2 -\int [t]\,dt$
Ted, no. That integral is 1/2 over an integer interval.
When you shift it?
That's robjohn's whole point, I believe.
indeed
Occasionally I get his point. :)
06:07
The point is that $\{x\}-\frac12$ has a nice antiderivative
Because it's periodic with integral $0$ over a period.
beating dead horses
it's needed sometimes
Gordon Elliott would agree
06:08
otherwise the dead horses just lie there
Continuation: $x^2/2 -(0+1+...+[x])=x^2/2-\frac {[x]([x]+1)}{2}=\int_0^x\{t\}\,dt$
Robjohn, does the expression above look ugly?
while it might be true, you've lost the $\{x\}$
Once again, @Koro stubbornly ignores what we're talking about. sigh
8 mins ago, by robjohn
whereas, we can write $\int_0^x\left(\{t\}-\frac12\right)\,\mathrm{d}t=\frac{\{x\}^2-\{x\}}2$
@TedShifrin He is doing what I asked, which is to integrate $\{x\}$
I think that we can get it back $\frac {x^2-[x]^2-[x]}2=\frac{\{x\}(x+[x])-[x]}2$
06:14
Without doing the shift?
Ted: Robjohn said that the said integration looks ugly and I wanted to see how.
yes. to see how ugly it gets
Oh, I see. I will shut up now. Apologies to Koro.
I'll go back to writing my interview report.
@Koro do you see that $\int_0^x\left(\{t\}-\frac12\right)\,\mathrm{d}t=\frac{\{x\}^2-\{x\}}2$?
if you use these polynomials (Bernoulli Polynomials) of $\{x\}$, the antiderivatives are also Bernoulli Polynomials of $\{x\}$
$\frac{\{x\}x+\{x\}[x] -x-[x]}{2}=\frac{[x]^2+2[x]\{x\}+\{x\}^2-[x]^2-[x]}2$
06:20
We don't want to use $\lfloor x\rfloor$
Rob: I'm getting rid of that shortly.
seems impossible, lol.
@Koro $\lfloor x\rfloor=x-\{x\}$
hang on a sec...
yeah, I used that and ended up with $\frac{\{x\}^{2} +2x\{x\}-2\{x\}^{2} -x+\{x\}}{2} =\frac{2x\{x\}-\{x\}^{2} -x+\{x\}}{2}$
I was expecting cancellation of some more terms.
Oh no, the evaluation of the integral was wrong.
I should have $\int_0^x [t]\,dt=0+1+2+...+([x]-1])+\int_{[x]}^x [t]\,dt$
$=\frac {([x]-1])[x]}{2}+[x](x-[x])$
Since $\{x\}=x$ on $[0,1)$, we know that $\int_0^x\left(\{t\}-\frac12\right)\mathrm{d}t=\int_0^x\left(t-\frac12\right)\mathrm{d}t=\frac{x^2-x}2=\frac{\{x\}^2-\{x\}}2$ for $0\le x\lt1$. However, the integral of $\{x\}-\frac12$ over $[0,1]$ is $0$, we get that the antiderivative is also periodic: $\frac{\{x\}^2-\{x\}}2$.
my calculation is still wrong.
06:35
you see how hard doing that way is? Now try it my way :-)
The key observation: If a function is periodic and its integral over a period is $0$, then its antiderivative is also periodic.
A very important thing to understand!
@robjohn I understand that. :)
Great!
So $\{x\}-\frac12$ is periodic and its integral over $[0,1]$ is $0$
It is easy to compute the antiderivative in $[0,1)$ where it is $x-\frac12$, then continue periodically.
I've been checking in on you periodically, as well.
The antiderivative of $x-\frac12$ is $\frac{x^2-x}2$
So the antiderivative of $\{x\}-\frac12$ is $\frac{\{x\}^2-\{x\}}2$
@TedShifrin punny ;-)
06:44
As you should well expect.
@Koro so the next step is to note that $\frac{\{x\}^2-\{x\}+\frac16}2$ has integral $0$ over $[0,1]$
what is the antiderivative of $\frac{\{x\}^2-\{x\}+\frac16}2$?
@robjohn $\frac 12 (\{x\}^3/3-\{x\}^2/2+\frac 16\{x\})$
right ?
yes
the point of the Euler-Maclaurin process is integrating by parts, and we are using these antiderivatives at each IOP
On the intervals far from $0$, we are basically substituting appropriately to get to $[0,1)$.
yes, so these functions are nice and bounded
what is the integral of $\frac 12 (\{x\}^3/3-\{x\}^2/2+\frac 16\{x\})$ over $[0,1]$?
$\int_0^1\left(\frac16\{x\}^3-\frac14\{x\}^2+\frac1{12}\{x\}\right)\mathrm{d}x=\frac1{24}-\frac1{12}+\frac1{24}=0$
so we don't need to add a constant here, and the antiderivative is $\frac1{24}\{x\}^4-\frac1{12}\{x\}^3+\frac1{24}\{x\}^2$
06:59
Ah, so periodicity + integral is 0 over [0,1]= evaluating integrals on [0,x], x>1
:)
it simplifies things a lot
we get nice periodic functions.
@Koro on the other hand, it looks never ending (in the sense of getting only two terms at the end)
not sure what you mean
I meant that the difficulty arises (as you said, that it gets complicated) if I simplify further the expression that I got without using any periodicity.
27 mins ago, by robjohn
The key observation: If a function is periodic and its integral over a period is $0$, then its antiderivative is also periodic.
@Koro Does it now make sense why I wanted the mean, hence the integral, over a period to be $0$?
actually in the explanation of $(3)$ in this answer, I do mention that the integral of $\{x\}-\frac12$ is periodic.
and now in the explanation of $(2)$ in this answer
@Koro: thanks for questioning this. I have improved that answer because of it.
07:32
Professor Rob, sorry for my delayed response.
@robjohn Yes, it makes sense to me now. :)
good. The Euler-Maclaurin Sum Formula will probably make more sense, too :-)
Yeah, actually I'd read that recently as an application of writing a sum as RS integral.
There are two ways I like to look at it: the RS integral and inversion of $1-e^{-D}$
And continuing as in your answer, we can get more terms of the asymptotic expansion of the harmonic series.
yes. I think I do that in some answer...
07:37
In the answer, the terms have been calculated upto $-\frac 1{12n^2}$.
I feel that in the answer, it should also be mentioned that IBP is (in RS sense): $\int_a^b f d(g)+\int_a^b g d(f)=(fg)|_a^b$
this answer has more terms
I don't yet know digamma :(
This answer also calculates more terms.
Thanks a lot professor Rob. Things are clearer to me now. :)
That is one of the things mathSE is about
$$H_n\sim\log(n)+\gamma+\frac1{2n}-\frac1{12n^2}+\frac1{120n^4}-\frac1{252n^6}+\frac1{240n^8}-\frac1{132n^{10}}+\frac{691}{32760n^{12}}-\frac1{12n^{14}}$$
@Koro there are more terms :-)
@Koro digamma is just the derivative of the log of Gamma
it is also $H_{x-1}-\gamma$ (see $(12)$ of this answer)
08:04
I want to create statistics for streaming data, do u think most of the statistics can be performed in streaming way ?
you can so some, but not all. hard to give a quantitative answer.
 
2 hours later…
10:11
For the sake of completion of an integral without using mean value of $\{x\}$:
\begin{array}{l}
\int _{0}^{x}\{t\} dt=x^{2} /2-\left(\int _{0}^{1} +\int _{1}^{2} +...+\int _{[ x] -1}^{[ x]} +\int _{[ x]}^{x}\right)\\
\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ =\frac{x^{2}}{2} -\left\{0+1+2+...+([ x] -1) +[ x]( x-[ x])\Bigl|\right\}\\
\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ =\frac{x^{2}}{2} -\frac{([ x] -1)[ x]}{2} -[ x]\{x\}\\
\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ =\ \frac{x^{2} -[ x]^{2} +[ x] -2[ x]\{x\}}{2} =\frac{\left( x^{2} -[ x]^{2} -2[ x]\{x\}\right) +[ x]}{2}\\
@robjohn I see. I didn't know that. :)
I realize now the power of integral of periodic function being $0$ over an interval with length equal to its period. :)
Are you integrating a sequence?
Or what $\{t\}$ is? Floor function?
I'd go about it the other way, $\int_0^x\{t\}\,\mathrm{d}t=\int_0^x\left(\left(\{t\}-\frac12\right)+\frac12\right)\,\mathrm{d}t=\frac12\{x\}^2-\frac12\{x\}+\frac12x$
@Odestheory12 $\{x\}=x-\lfloor x\rfloor$
fractional part
Oh I see, interesting.
Thanks
@Koro you need to learn the align environment
@robjohn yeah, I never really understood it. :(
Sometimes my equations in Latex become so lengthy in a straight line and don't load fully so I use \\ to add new lines or try to write the equations the other way (so that the equations fit in one one line or so).
10:31
Hi everybody, does anybody have access to Mathematica and RUBI?
I have sage but it doesn't have a rule based integrator
To the best of my knowledge
$$
\begin{align}
\int_0^x\{t\}\,\mathrm{d}t
&=x^2/2-\left(\int_0^1+\int_1^1+\dots+\int_{\lfloor x\rfloor-1}^{\lfloor x\rfloor}+\int_{\lfloor x\rfloor}^x\right)\\
&=\frac{x^2}2 -\left\{0+1+2+...+(\lfloor x\rfloor-1)+\lfloor x\rfloor(x-\lfloor x\rfloor)\right\}\\
&=\frac{x^2}2-\frac{(\lfloor x\rfloor-1)\lfloor x\rfloor}{2}-\lfloor x\rfloor\{x\}\\
&=\frac{x^2-\lfloor x\rfloor^2+\lfloor x\rfloor-2\lfloor x\rfloor\{x\}}2\\
&=\frac{\left(x^2-\lfloor x\rfloor^2-2\lfloor x\rfloor\{x\}\right)+\lfloor x\rfloor}2\\
@Koro that's what yours looks like using the align environment
Wow!!
Ahh, I think I know that. I saw it in one of the answers and I'll start using align environment more and more now.
And if you want to level up from align there is also split for multiline equations :p
It's a little bit counterintuitive though, because the ampersand appears to exit the group somehow
I'm not sure if they \aftergrouped it or hacked it in some other way
10:47
@Koro why is the vertical bar at the end of line 2?
That's a typo and it was too late to edit it by the time I noted that. :(
11:36
Hi! I'm trying to prove the convergence of the series $\displaystyle \sum_{n=n_{0}}^{+\infty} \frac{1}{(\log \log n)^{\log n}}$ for all $n_{0}\geq 2$. I know as we can solve the problem using the comparastion test with $\sum 1/n^{2}$, for that reason the series converge. But can we use the Cauchy condensation's test?
I know the Cauchy condensation's test says that $$\sum a_{n}<+\infty \iff \sum 2^{n}a_{2^{n}}<+\infty$$ only if the sequence $(a_n)$ is a non-increasing sequence.
For that reason we can apply the test for the series $\sum \frac{1}{(n\log n)^{2}}$ since the the sequence $a_{n}$ is non increasing for $n$ sufficiently large.
But what's about the sequence $n\mapsto \frac{1}{(\log \log n)^{\log n}}$ can we apply the Cauchy condensation's test?
12:35
I think we cannot apply this criterion because the sequence does not satisfy the monotony hypothesis, is this correct?
If the problem were $\sum_{n=2}^{+\infty}\frac{1}{(\log \log n)^{\log \log n}}$ I think we can use the Cauchy condensation's test.
13:39
@Alex To apply Cauchy’s condensation test, you should also say that all $a_n$‘ s are eventually of the same sign.
if $\{x_{3n}\}$ is convergent, does it imply $\{x_n\}$ is convergent?
Nop it does not I think
jay
jay
13:59
Hello! I am trying to show that $\int_{\mathbb{R}^d} f(|\nabla f|^2+ \nabla f \cdot \nabla g) dx\geq 0 $ where $f,g: \mathbb{R}^d \to \mathbb{R}$, $f$ is a probability density, and $g$ I am free to choose some assumptions ( obviously choosing $g$ constant gives the result immediately) .
Also can someone help me get mathjax to render in this chat forum ? is that possible?
your asking if a sequence is convergent then is every subsequence also convergent ?
@Odestheory12
Uhm i think its the other way around, $\{x_{3n}\}$ is a subsequence of $\{x_n\}$
jay
jay
yes it is
your right sorr
sorry
then answers definitely no
And no, the answer is clearly no
Yep
jay
jay
i.e there exists divergent sequences with convergence subsequences.
Yeah, nah there must be more assumptions i am missing.
 
3 hours later…
16:41
@jay Look at the top right, there should be link explaining how to manage that (called $\LaTeX$ in chat)
jay
jay
thanks Astyx
@Astyx
glad to help
jay
jay
did you see my previous message?
which one?
jay
jay
I am trying to show that $\int_{\mathbb{R}^d} f(|\nabla f|^2+ \nabla f \cdot \nabla g) dx\geq 0 $ where $f,g: \mathbb{R}^d \to \mathbb{R}$, $f$ is a probability density, and $g$ I am free to choose some assumptions ( obviously choosing $g$ constant gives the result immediately) .
16:46
$|\nabla f|^2 +\nabla f\cdot\nabla g = \nabla f\cdot \nabla (f+g)$
jay
jay
yep
beyond that idk what you're looking for
jay
jay
some bound above 0 after placing assumptions on $g$
17:00
Hii guys, for multivariable calculus , the book by stewart vs spivak. Which would be better?
17:13
Better for what?
This is comparing apples and oranges, or apples and ice creams.
Question: is there an analogue concept of a pseudovector (axial vector) but for matrices?

The motivation is something like this:
A vector field F(r) transforms under a "rotation" g via gF(r) = (gF)(g^{-1}r); a pseudovector does the same, but incorporates an additional factor det(g).
A "matrix field" M(r) transforms similarly like gM(r)g^{-1} = (RM(g^{-1}r)R^{-1}), with R denoting a matrix-representation of g.
Now, if I have a matrix field that has an additional factor of det(g) that then seems very analogous to the pseudovector concept.
@TedShifrin ohh. Ah for learning multivariable calculus
to be specific without mastering single variable
to prove things part
You will not learn multivariable calculus from Spivak. And you have to learn single variable first, regardless.
okay. I know the theorems and I can solve questions, is it needed to learn to prove?
I mean due to covid tests are mcqs and so was not able to learn proof writing in detail
17:30
A reasonable compromise is Apostol’s calculus. You need linear algebra to do multivariable correctly. He includes that.
ok
How are partial sum formulae computed?
@Koro The series needs to be monotonic eventially as well to use Cauchy Condensation
@robjohn of course, I meant in addition to what Alex had already said. :)
@Koro well, monotonic and tending to $0$ sort of imply eventually single signed
17:40
yes of course :).
I'm watching a movie about S. Ramanujan. I'm at an emotional scene where Ramanujan decides to go back to India and tells prof. Hardy that he's received the tickets to go back to India. Hardy says that the vehicle he arrived in had a boring number on it 1729. To that, Ramanujan replies that it's the smallest positive integer that can be written as sum of two cubes of positive integers in two different ways.
Does the triangle inequality hold for negative values? E.g if $a_n, b_n > 0$ and $\lim a_n = L$ can I conclude that $|a_n-L+(-b_n) \le |a_n-L| + |b_n|$?
@Koro The man who knew infinity? :P
No. The movie I'm watching is different and is in Hindi.
@robjohn so in this case can't we use the Cauchy condensation? Because the sequence is non increasing?
I meant $|a_n-L+(-b_n)| \le |a_n-L| + |b_n|$
@Alex which case?
17:52
Isn't $|{-}b_n|=|b_n|$, Odes?
@Odestheory12 Triangle inequality is $|x+y|\le|x|+|y|$ $x$ and $y$ can be any sign
@robjohn In the series $\sum a_n$ with $a_n=\frac{1}{(\log \log n)^{\log n}}$.
@Koro What's the movie name? Sounds interesting.
@TedShifrin Yes, but since its called "triangle inequality" I thought the numbers had to be positive
@Alex that is decreasing
17:53
Uhm
cauchy condensation works
Actually, for there to be a triangle, these are actually vectors, not real numbers!!!
If the numbers are positive, @Odes, then $|a+b| = a+b = |a| + |b|$, and it's pretty boring.
But, yeah, this is interesting because it holds in more dimensions.
The opening scene of the movie was so funny. Teacher: If we divide a number by itself, we get 1 just as when we divide 20 apples to 20 people each gets one. Kid Ramanujan says: if we divide 0 by 0, we should get 1 just like when we give 0 apples to 0 people each should get one apple.
haha
Teacher then says: 0 is nothing.
Kid Ramanujan: How can that be nothing? If you put 0 to the side of 1, you get 10 and append one more 0, you get 100 etc.
The teacher gets shocked. :)
17:56
That movie motivates a lot :P
@Alex question?
I wonder if he really saw his formulas on his dreams as the film says
@robjohn I was thinking about how to prove that it was decreasing using the definition. Is decreasing for an $n$ sufficiently large, correct? For some reason I thought it wasn't decreasing and so the test didn't work.
23 mins ago, by robjohn
@Koro The series needs to be monotonic eventially as well to use Cauchy Condensation
@Alex note "eventually"
Ah I see. I doubt YT would have such a thing. I think they only had Ip Man because uh... reasons?
18:00
I was editing the message and by mistake clicked delete.
Highly recommend Ip Man. Very good.
Could use some editing for modesty, though.
This is the title on YT: Ramanujan Full Movie | Mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan Biographical Movie
I have to say I'm not a fan of sensationalized biographies in film format. I think it's fair to attempt to recreate the character and play back a story but being overly dramatic is retarded.
I don't need this every 5 seconds in a movie: youtu.be/MOekdbB8b_k
@AMDG ah, I don't think that kind of sound is there in the movie :)
Sure, but I'm sure you get what I'm saying. Those kinds of movies.
Gordon Ramsay kitchen nightmares sfx.wav amirite
18:06
I have seen that in some movies. They use that sound to highlight some stuff like jumpscares etc. :)
Well the former is a vine boom effect and the latter is from a reality TV show or whatever category it's called.
ted were you ever the chair of your department? my wife now is, and is doing meetings all day. i understand the purpose of about 20% of them. the rest is just like, i don't remember me or anybody i know needing to bother people about this.
No, I was associate department head for 8 years. Close enough. There are meetings with the dean and other things that come up, but I suspect that these sorts of things may be worse the lower the level of the institution.
that makes sense. a lot of it seems to be one-on-one, or near one-on-one, meetings with people with grievances or wanting reasons for something that is not really anything that a chair can fix.
her department is 'interdisciplinary' which increases the likelihood of unpredictable and unproductive crosstalk.
Oh, you meant meetings with people in the department? I assumed you mean external such. ... I handled all sorts of student complaints and dealt with all course scheduling issues, but ultimately the department head was the recourse of those who were dissatisfied.
The least fun part of my job was course transfer credit issues. I had some pretty violent parents with that ... oy ...
18:18
it's mostly unhappy faculty, but there's also stuff with deans and provosts. i haven't seen student focused stuff. i don't know what a provost does. the one she's working with isn't raising money. that has come up. i hope that isn't part of their job.
Provost = VP for Academic Affairs, typically, so "in charge" of the teaching mission.
my view from 30,000 feet is that tiny liberal arts schools hire people with less professional experience than i have for administrative positions to do [?????? huge blank here] and then they underperform and are thrown out.
this may be reflective of the level of institution my wife is working with
I cannot speak to that.
Maybe munchkin should take some of the meetings.
i think the smaller the school, the more something can evolve in such a way that it is incomparable to other things, and you have to be inside it to understand why it is the way it is.
i do think munchkin could run a better meeting. her default criticism when she's done with something is "I DON'T WANT THIS" and slapping the screen full of the things she doesn't want.
Can I post here something I wanted to prove? Not sure if the statement is correct at all since I took it implicitely from a book i am following.
18:23
How do you take a statement implicitly?
Say what the book says, precisely!
Yeah but the way the said it it looks trivial, and it doesn't look that trivial for me :(
I think they mean to say that they took the statement for granted at first and now they are trying to prove it.
Exactly
Well I am trying to prove it :P
OK, let's just see the precise statement, not your interpretation of it.
ODE: i would post whatever you want to post. for context, this is nominally a chat about math, and the comments immediately preceding your question are about my daughter hitting a laptop.
but yes, verbatim is preferred to summary.
18:25
Yeah, its the precise statement.
Assuming $S_n = \displaystyle \sum_{k=1}^{n} a_k$. If $\lim \{S_{3n}\} = L$ and $\lim \{S_{3n} - S_{3n-1}\} = 0$ and $\lim \{S_{3n} - S_{3n-2}\} = 0$ I want to prove that $\lim \{S_n\} = L$ Can I proceed as follows? We note that $S_{3n} - S_{3n-2} = a_{3n-1} + a_{3n} $ and $S_{3n} - S_{3n-1} = a_{3n} $. Given $\epsilon > 0$ and an $m\in \Bbb N$ we have that $|S_{3n}-L| < \epsilon/3$, $|a_{3n}|<\epsilon/3$ and
$|a_{3n-1}|<\epsilon/3$. Hence $|S_{3n-1}-L| =|S_{3n}-L- a_{3n}| \le |S_{3n}-L|+ |a_{3n}| < 2\epsilon/3 $ and $|S_{3n-2}-L|=|S_{3n}-L- a_{3n}-a_{3n-1}| \le |S_{3n-2}-L|+ |a_{3n}| + |a_
how are you Leslie?
Maybe I had to give it some format
It looks a bit weird
koro: thanks for asking. i think my daughter has the newest covid variant, she has a very ugly-sounding cough and her school is closed because a classmate and some staff had it. but she is not in any distress. and we haven't bothered to find tests to make sure.
Do you know the theorem that if $a_n\to\ell$ and $b_n\to m$, then $a_n+b_n\to \ell+m$ (proved with $\epsilon$s)?
18:27
i may also have it. i feel "off" but not too off.
@TedShifrin Yes
So, rather than reproving the result each time, do you see how to apply that in your case?
That is a very important skill to learn in mathematics. Reduce a question to something you know, rather than starting at the beginning every time.
10
@leslie Fever? I think that's still something one is supposed to be checking.
her temp is normal. all we have is this lingering, awful cough. she sounds like someone who smoked 3 packs a day for 50 years.
Oh I see what you mean, I can say directly $\lim \{S_{3n}\} = \lim \{S_{3n-1}\} = \lim \{S_{3n-2}\} = L$ because of that
@Odes, yes, that's my intention, but how do you get it correctly?
18:30
Because if $\lim \{S_{3n} - S_{3n-1}\} = 0$ then both sequences have the same limit
ODE: Let me state a version of what you're trying to prove: If A and B are infinite subsets of $\mathbb N$ such that $A\cup B=\mathbb N$ and $A\cap B=\emptyset$ and it is given that the subsequences $(x_{a})$ and $(x_{b})$ both converge to the same limit L, then the sequence $(x_n)$ converges to L.
Note: $(x_a)$ and $(x_b)$ are often called complementary subsequences of the sequence $(x_n)$.
If you know both limits exist? How do you get around assuming what you're trying to prove?
@Koro ... Let us finish, please.
i've had some breakouts of hives and stiffness in the legs, both of which are anecdotally associated with omicron. nothing respiratory.
Professor Ted: sorry for the interruption. I stated one result that ODE can take a look at, if they want after your discussion. I didn't mean to interfere in the discussion.
My skin is a mess throughout, @leslie, nothing to do with covid, I believe. It's a combination of lichen planus, from which I suffer, and bad reactions to cat bites and scratches.
18:33
good point. i do think olivia is responsible for all of this.
@leslietownes I'm sad to know that. I hope the child is fine now.
@TedShifrin What do you mean? Am I asumming both limits exist before hand?
@Odes: Here's what you're trying to do (with easier notation). If you know $\lim a_n=\ell$ and $\lim(a_n+b_n) = m$, then how do know $\lim b_n$ exists and how do you find it?
At my office also, many seem to have contracted the new variant and are in home isolation now.
koro: she's more than fine. she manages to achieve a lot of mischief while she is coughing.
18:35
@TedShifrin Uhm But to apply that result I think I need to know that $a_n$ and $b_n$ are convergent sequences.
Leslie: good to know that :)
No, that's my whole point. It is perhaps a trick the first time you see it, but this is an important technique. How do you get $b_n$ from $a_n$ and $a_n+b_n$?
The common sense tells me to just substract :P
Correct.
Now do you see the proof? :)
By the way, @Koro, your general statement doesn't apply here. You still have to see the other subsequences have the same limit. That's the whole point I'm working on here.
Yeah. Not sure why I always take the toughest way.
I still need to prove that $\lim S_{3n} = \lim S_n$ right?
18:39
So, using what I just showed you, what do you deduce immediately?
Given $\lim S_{3n} = L$, what do we now conclude?
We can conclude that $\lim \{S_{3n}\} = \lim \{S_{3n-1}\} = \lim \{S_{3n-2}\} = L$
Correct.
And hence that three sequences describe the whole sequence $\{S_n\}$, we are automatically done I guess
And, now, as Koro wanted you to see earlier, how do you argue that $\lim S_k = L$?
Just taking $n\ge3m$
18:41
Well, here officially you would have to take $N=\max(N_1,N_2,N_3)$ appropriately to be super pedantic.
I consider that part easy once you've understood what we've done.
Yeah, that's trivial.
The point was to get there.
OK.
So, yes, try to see how to use well-known facts that you know when you can, rather than starting at the beginning of the argument each time.
I think I focused a lot in the theory such that I forget that the limit of a sequence is the same than the number of what the sequence converges.
18:42
Well, having a picture in your mind of what's going on always helps (except for leslie, who refuses pictures).
Yeah that's one of my bad habits. I don't usually have a good picture of the object i am dealing with.
one of your GOOD habits.
sends munchkin to bite leslie
I tried to avoid that when I started to study series a week ago, and here i am asking myself every step i do :P
Leslie: some people in my office contracted the new variant, it seems. And they told that their symptom was high fever.
18:45
koro: it's gone through my office, too. and most people are feverish. we're not. i don't know what to make of it.
normally i only break out in hives if i overdo it and get adventurous with my consumption of cheese.
The equivalence between $x \le y$ and $x<y+\epsilon$ still shocks me.
Quantifiers matter. FOR ALL $\epsilon>0$.
I mean I can't believe I didn't notice that until yesterday (even if I was using it unconsciously)
This is the statement that there is no "infinitesimally small" positive real number. :)
@TedShifrin But the statement takes care of the subsequences. :)
18:53
@TedShifrin I deleted that concept when I started to re-study math again :P
I prefer to work with $\sup$ and $\inf$ instead
Sure, so why does it shock you?
@Koro: The hard part, as I said, was to justify the fact that the subsequential limits are equal.
jay
jay
Anyone have any clever/insightful/funny comments to make about $\Gamma-$convergence?
Never hoyd of it.
00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

« first day (4181 days earlier)      last day (1137 days later) »