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01:19
@Bob at the risk of mse wrath i added an answer.
The point to emphasize is that least squares is just a straightforward linear algebra exercise.
my wife is cooking enchiladas tonight. i love enchiladas.
Bob
Bob
01:47
@copper.hat thanks for the help. However, your solution is not really complete. I hope to have values for $A$ and $B$ soon.
Just solve the $2\times 2$ system of linear equations, Bob.
02:15
I got $\inf\{|s_n|\} + \epsilon > |s_\delta| \geq \inf \{|s_n|\}$ and $|s_\delta| > |s_{\delta + 1}|$. Is there an algebraic way to get $\epsilon > |s_\delta - \inf\{s_n\}|$?
i can do the argument with words but feel less cool
Bob
Bob
Ted that is easier said then done
I am posting my updated solution now.
03:13
@Bob you need to do some work. not a turnkey answering service.
03:32
@Bob You’re making this way too hard. Actually plug in the $x_i$ and $y_i$ values as soon as you have copper’s equations.
03:50
@shintuku your question is a little vague. try $s_n = (-1)^n {1 \over n}$ for $n \ge 0$. then $\inf |s_n| = 0, \inf s_n = -1$. pick $\epsilon = {1 \over 2}, \delta = 3$. then $0 + \epsilon > {1 \over 3} \ge 0$ but ${1 \over 2} < |-{1 \over 3}+1|$.
not sure how an argument with words would change the truth of the statement!
hm right, I figure I need to choose $\inf\{s_n\}$ or $\sup\{s_n\}$ according to the sign of the sequence
I was hoping there was a way to prove it converges to some limit without doing the positive and the negative case individually
i just did it the boring way with each case separately
i'm not sure what you are doing, but without more constraints the above is not correct.
makes sense, I did it for the monotonic case
04:18
hm, but for the monotonic case, is there a way to prove it without doing the positive and negative cases separately?
without using the monotone convergence theorem
to get some sort of $\epsilon > |s_\delta - L|$ from $\inf\{|s_n|\} + \epsilon > |s_\delta| \geq \inf\{|s_n|\}$
04:34
i am missing something. unless you change the setup the counterexample above still applies, so you can never prove it.
since it is monotonic it cannot oscillate I think
it excludes sequences of the form $(-1)^na_n$, I think
@shintuku MS-DOS was mid-80s. First public version was 1983. And orange and beige?? I don't remember much of that, unless you have a bunch of faded posters.
yeah you caught me on that one hehe
@shintuku monotonic? Do you mean that all the $s_n\ge0$? If so, why all the absolute values?
04:49
either increasing, decreasing, nondecreasing or nonincreasing
i think it allows either positive or negative sequences, let me check
from Bruckner et. al.'s Elementary Real Analysis p67. but then again i just picked some random recommendation from MathSE to learn analysis so I don't know if this is this is standard
i really like the book so far though
@shintuku i still do not know what you are trying to prove/do?
Let $\{s_n\}$ be a monotonic sequence s.t. $\forall n: |s_n| > |s_{n+1}|$ and s.t. it has both an infimum and a supremum. Prove it converges
I was trying to do the proof without doing the positive and negative cases individually
05:08
If it is monotonic and bounded it converges, the other condition is noise.
@shintuku if a sequence is monotonic and bounded above and below, it converges. Is that what you are trying to prove?
what copper.hat said, yeah
. o O ( problems with a kernel of simplicity, encased in a coating of confusion )
05:21
@shintuku it looks to be on page 47, from the copy I just downloaded.
Thus every increasing sequence is also nondecreasing but not conversely. A sequence that has any one of these four properties (increasing, decreasing, nondecreasing, or nonincreasing) is said to be monotonic. Monotonic sequences are often easier to deal with than sequences that can go both up and down.
i got the 2nd edition from 2008, horizontal pages
it's free online, this one
@shintuku oh, I have the portrait pages
I spend time on this one whenever I don't get rudin, the proofs and examples are often user-friendly
so which problem is it that you are trying to do?
what you are stating here is confusing. It might help to see the actual question.
oh I wasn't doing any problem in particular, I was doing a particular case of the monotone convergence theorem, one for bounded sequences which are either strictly positive or strictly negative and tend towards the zero line without crossing it, maybe being bounded before touching it
the more general proof given by the author works for this particular case
05:31
Then say that rather than all the confusing stuff with absolute values.
prove it for non-increasing positive sequences. It is easy from there to do the same thing for non-decreasing negative sequences.
yeah, the proof is a breeze if you separate the negative and the positive cases
so do that
why add to the confusion?
don't try to rewrite Rudin
sorry hehe i was trying to do it without separating the negative and positive cases, for exercise
seems like it can't be done that way
it can be done, but it helps to have done it the easier way first. Then you know where you are going.
trying to combine cases can be very confusing. I would separate cases first
@leslietownes is that where all this dust came from?
05:51
yup, the internet is unusual that way
@robjohn yeah that was very helpful. I should have also thought of subintervals from right to left. I have understood that now. Thanks a lot :)
@Koro great. glad it helped.
@shintuku work from easy to hard. not just with maths.
make connections between what you know and what is new
I also added comment(s) there @robjohn. Should that have been obvious by $(3)$?
06:00
thanks for the tips
@Koro you mean that if $\{j(k_1-k_2)r\}\in I_k$ then $\{j(k_2-k_1)r\}\in I_{n+1-k}$?
No. I was elaborating the statement just before $(3)$ in the answer-"no subinterval will be skipped by elements of the set $\{\mathbb N r\}$".
Can you do a double limit in nonstandard analysis?
@AkivaWeinberger: Hi Mr. Akiva, how are you?
06:07
nonstandardly you can do anything :P
While asking the dense set question yesterday, I remembered you from the discussion on density of $\{\sqrt n\}$ in [0,1]. And here you are ! @Akiva
how's the twitter jungle?
@robjohn I was trying to elaborate statement just before $(3)$ in the answer.
06:27
@Koro hey Koro, thanks a lot for the answer! I saw $|a_n| - l < \epsilon$ as sufficient for a limit, but do you know if it has a relation to the $|a_n - L| < \epsilon$ definition, or is it actually not derived but also an acceptable alternative definition?
06:40
@shintuku Any examples of a nondecreasing sequence that isn't increasing? Would that just be a constant sequence? Like $a_n = 1$ for all n?
it could be constant a while, then increase, then be constant a while, and increase again, etc.
which is not allowed by strictly increasing
@shintuku: you're welcome. To the comment I made in the answer, I will also like to state that $||a_n|-|l||\le |a_n-l|$ is always true. I hope your doubt is clear now :)
@shintuku Oh, I see thanks
same is true of any norm, it is Lipschitz of rank one.
@shintuku As stated in the comment, we took advantage of monotonicity in the answer :)
06:43
@Koro ah nice thanks again for the comment!
ohh, and then we choose some number such that $|a_n| - L + \zeta > |a_n - L|$
from which we get $\epsilon > |a_n - L|$
@shin, note that we also proved one more thing in the answer: that is, $L=\inf (|a_n|)$ if $(|a_n|)$ is a strictly decreasing sequence.
and therefore $L\ge 0$ and for any $n$, $|a_n|-L$ is non negative. :)
and this allows us to say that $||a_n|-L|\lt \epsilon$ and hence $|a_n|$ converges to $L$. :)
if $a_n$ is monotonic then eventually it will stop changing signs (+,-) and have the same sign for all large N terms.
And hence for large n, $|a_n| $ will either be $a_n$ for all large n or $-a_n$ for all large n. And since convergence of a sequence won't change by multiplying by minus sign, the result is proven!
@shintuku
Does $d\mu = h d|\mu|$ imply that $d|\mu| = \frac{1}{h} \cdot d\mu$?
what do you think? how do you define the equality in the first place?
07:03
@copper.hat Equality is defined like, for every measurable set $E$, we have $\mu(E) = \int_E h d|\mu|$
So I'm really asking if this implies that for every measurable set $E$, we have $|\mu|(E) = \int_E \frac{1}{h} d\mu$.
07:16
if you have $\mu E = \int 1_E h d |\mu|$ for all $E$ you have $\int f d \mu = \int f h d |\mu|$ and so, letting $f = {g \over h}$ you have $\int g {1 \over h} d \mu = \int g d |\mu|$ for all $g$ and so letting $g=1_E$ you have the desired result.
We are given 9 numbers : -6 , -8 , -5 , 10 , 6 , 4 , 8 , 1 , 9 , 7
Q is to write an algorithm for this such that the addition of any two numbers always give 2 .
@copper.hat How did you conclude that it holds with $f$? and $f$ is?
any measurable function?
Also here's what I tried: Assume $$\mu(E) = \int_E h d|\mu|$$

$$|\mu|(E) = \int_E d|\mu| = \int_E \frac{hd|\mu|}{h} = \int_E \frac{1}{h}\,d\mu$$
yes, it holds for indicators, hence simple functions hence all measurable.
sure, but why would you want to write the total variation in terms of the underlying measure?
@Koro since |a-b| = |b-a| we know there exists a limit for $a_n$ without absolute values too!
@copper.hat Good question, it's for Problem 6.7 of Rudin
that Oliver and I were talking about yesterday
I'm using this in the final step
07:27
you could also notice that the real & imaginary parts of $\mu$ are absolutely continuous with respect to the total variation hence Radon Nikodym applies. then show that the combination of the derivatives is ${ 1 \over h}$.
@shintuku not always. Take $a_n $ as the sequence $1,-1,1,-1,...$. Particularly, for you question: I request you to refer my last detailed comment above. In case of monotonicity we have certain advantage :)
oh right, we have that there exists an $L$ s.t. $|a_n - L|$ using $|a-b| = |b-a|$ only using monotonicity too
very good comment above too
shintuku, if you repeat the arguments for the case when $(|a_n|)$ is an increasing sequence, then you'll understand it better :)
Let $f(x)=\begin{cases}1 \text{ if }x\in \mathbb R\setminus \mathbb Q\cup \{0\}\\
1-\frac 1p \text{ if } x=\frac np, n\in \mathbb Z\setminus\{0\}, p\in \mathbb N \text{ and gcd}(m,n)=1 \end{cases}$

The points at which $f$ is continuous, are to be found.

Let $a\in \mathbb R$ be any point in $\mathbb R$.
So I considered the following two cases:

$1)$: $a=\frac np\in \mathbb Q\setminus\{0\}$

Let $(x_n)$ be a sequence of irrationals converging to $a$. For continuity at $a$ we must have $\lim f(x_n)=f(a)=\lim 1=1=1-\frac np, $ which is not possible. Hence, $f$ is not continuous at any
@copper.hat: any advice here?
i am off to bed. i would imagine continuous at the irrationals and discontinuous at the irrationals?
seems continuous at the irrationals.. 0 seems problematic.
Good night @copper.hat.
It's super heavy rain here :)
07:35
monsoon?
if ${n_k \over p_k} \to 0$ with $n_k \neq 0$ you must have $p_k \to \infty$. similarly if the limit is an irrational.
@copper.hat Interesting, I'll try that
@Koro ask yourself: how far is the distance across an interval? how far is $\{j(k_1-k_2)r\}$ from $\{(j+1)(k_1-k_2)r\}$?
@copper.hat yes it seems till October, it will be., I am new here so didn't know much about monsoon season here :'(
hope you are ok!
@robjohn yeah that's what i thought and expressed in the comment. They must be at most 1/n distance apart.
07:40
@Koro $(k_1-k_2)r\in\left(0,\frac1n\right)$, less than $\frac1n$
@Koro:
$\inf|a_n| + \epsilon > |a_N| \geq \inf |a_n|$
$\epsilon > |a_n| - \inf |a_n| \geq 0$
Let $L = \inf |a_n|$
$\epsilon > | |a_n| - L | = | -|a_n| - (-L)|$
$\therefore \exists \mathcal{L} = (L \lor -L)$ s.t. $a_n \rightarrow \mathcal{L}$
@robjohn yes and therefore $\{(k_1-k_2)r\}=(k_1-k_2)r$
@copper.hat I'm okay. Thank you copper.
@shintuku you can't simply write $\inf|a_n|$ without telling what the set you are taking the infimum over. $\inf\limits_{n\in\mathbb{N}}|a_n|$ is at least a quantity.
who knows what $|a_N|$ is?
whoops, I meant to be using $\inf\{|a_n|\}$
@shintuku that is indeterminate, as well. $\inf\{|a_n|:n\in\mathbb{N}\}$
07:46
hm i'm very sorry I'll rewrite it a second
$\inf\{|a_n|: n\in \mathbb N\}$ @shin
and this exists because of your hypothesis that infimum/sup of the sequence exist.
Let $\{a_n \}$ be a monotonic sequence with $|a_n| > |a_{n-1}|$ with both an infimum and a supremum. Since $\inf\{|a_n|\} + \epsilon$ is not an infimum of $|a_n|$, there exists an $N$ s.t. $n > N$ s.t.
$\inf\{|a_n|\} + \epsilon > |a_N| \geq \inf \{|a_n|\}$
$\epsilon > |a_n| - \inf \{|a_n|\} \geq 0$
Let $L = \inf \{|a_n|\}$
$\epsilon > | |a_n| - L | = | -|a_n| - (-L)|$
$\therefore \exists \mathcal{L} = (L \lor -L)$ s.t. $a_n \rightarrow L$
since $\{ a_n \}$ is a sequence we know $n \in \mathbb{N}$
@shintuku are you taking $(|a_n|)$ increasing ?
edited:$|a_n| > |a_{n+1}|$
argh
I wrote that wrong
$|a_n| > |a_{n+1}|$ i mean
that's a pretty big mistake sorry
Is there any more explicit way to go from $\epsilon > ||a_n| - L| = |-|a_n| -(-L)|$ to $\exists \mathcal{L} = (L \lor -L)$ s.t. $a_n \to L$?
"Since $\inf\{|a_n|\} + \epsilon$ is not an infimum of $|a_n|$..." - It would be more correct to say "Since $\inf\{|a_n|\} + \epsilon$ is not a lower bound of $|a_n|$..." After all, $\inf\{|a_n|\} - \epsilon$ is also not an (the) infimum, but the rest wouldn't follow in that case.
07:57
@Bungo very important thank you
08:35
@shintuku If $\{a_n\}$ is increasing, then for all $n$ we have $a_{n} \leq a_{n+1}$. By assumption we also have $|a_n| > |a_{n+1}|$ for all $n$. It follows that $|a_n| > |a_{n+1}| \geq a_{n+1} \geq a_n$, hence $a_n < |a_n|$, hence $a_n$ is negative for all $n$. Therefore $a_n$ converges to $\sup\{a_n\} = \sup\{-|a_n|\} = -\inf\{|a_n|\}$.

Similarly, if $\{a_n\}$ is decreasing, then for all $n$ we have $a_n \geq a_{n+1} \geq -|a_{n+1}| > -|a_n|$, hence $a_n$ is positive for all $n$. Therefore $a_n$ converges to $\inf\{a_n\} = \inf\{|a_n|\}$.
Hi Mr. Bungo, any suggestions here?
0
Q: Continuity of a function that looks like Thomae's function

KoroLet $f(x)=\begin{cases}1 \text{ if }x\in \mathbb R\setminus \mathbb Q\cup \{0\}\\ 1-\frac 1p \text{ if } x=\frac np, n\in \mathbb Z\setminus\{0\}, p\in \mathbb N \text{ and gcd}(m,n)=1 \end{cases}$ The points at which $f$ is continuous, are to be found. Let $a\in \mathbb R$ be any point in...

@Bungo thank you very much!
@Koro Based on a quick skim, your answer looks correct. At nonzero rational points $x$ the function value is strictly less than 1, so any sequence of irrationals converging to $x$ shows that the function can't be continuous there.
At irrational (or zero) values of $x$, the function value is 1, and in any neighborhood of $x$ there are only finitely many rationals with denominator less than any given N, so any sequence of rationals approaching $x$ must eventually have arbitrarily large denominators.
Thanks a lot sir @Bungo
I am still confused about continuity at 0 :'(
08:53
Well you have $f(0) = 1$, and obviously $f(x) \leq 1$ everywhere. Suppose you want to find a neighborhood $N$ of $0$ such that $f(x) > 1 - 1/n$ for all $x$ in $N$. What if you take $N$ to be $(-1/n, 1/n)$? For all irrational $x$ in this neighborhood, of course we have $f(x) = 1$. If $p/q$ is a rational in this neighborhood, after canceling common factors from $p$ and $q$, you must have $q > n$. Therefore $f(p/q) > 1 - 1/n$ as desired.
@Koro (Sorry, too late to edit, I should have said "if $p/q$ is a nonzero rational in this neighborhood...")
@Bungo Thanks a lot. I was thinking along the similar lines while writing my post. I take my post as correct now. Thanks a lot. I would like to mention that first I considered three cases (third case being a=0) but then I noted there was no need for that.
09:51
@copper.hat I don't think this works. Could you provide more details? Lebesgue's MCT, and approximation of measurable functions by simple measurable functions - I've seen all these things for positive measures, and positive functions. Here, the measure is complex and the functions are too. Thanks!
i hate complex measures. why be bothered. they should be outlawed.
i'm writing my congressman.
LMAO
complex measures are fun
i think we should seek legislative and not mathematical solutions to this problem.
you know what bothers me though? they introduced measures saying they want to talk about volumes of sets
what time zone are you in? it's 3am here. are you one of the australians?
09:55
they lied, they took us to complex volumes
@leslietownes i'm in india! it's afternoon here, utc + 5.5
oh. namaste.
@leslietownes why are you awake?
i don't know why i can't sleep. i'm more awake than i am in the daytime. i used to live like this but when i had a kid i adjusted to a normal schedule.
and now i'm up again.
my cat's looking at me like, "why are you awake?"
this is her time to prowl the house and do what she wants to do, and here i am being awake and ruining her freedom.
ahah yeah xD
your cat is cute btw
everyone who sees her on zoom comments on her eyes.
she has beautiful eyes. she is a real brat with me and my wife but is wonderful with my daughter.
my daughter's first word was "livvy." that's how close they are.
09:58
wow, that's amazing
i held her for about an hour trying to go back to sleep and her purring did relax me but i'm more awake than not. today will be very interesting. i have one appointment at 11am. after that i can probably go to bed.
olivia was purring so loudly that she woke my wife up.
my wife said, "what the f--- livvy why are you being so loud." then back to sleep.
i love cats because whenever they sleep they arrange themselves in a cute position. they are artisans of comfort.
@PM2Ring Do you have a more readable example in... C perhaps? Also, I could use some clarifications.
C is a tire fire of a language. no disrespect to its creators, it was amazing for its time but not now.
the amount of memory management i had to do in C. goodness. just do that for me please.
10:15
@leslietownes when you get the time, could you share your thoughts on the complex measure stuff?
no rush lol it's the middle of the night for you
i am morally opposed to complex measures but will look into it.
are normal people not up at 3am?
nowadays, i sleep at 3 am, so i'd say they are
@PM2Ring Also, if I understand your code directly, your 9-iteration newton method approximation will take 72c plus a conditional jump, though that seems to just be a precision cut-off, so I'll pretend that isn't there. If that's the minimum precision for getting 64-bit reciprocals or quotients, you're 31c slower than div and 56c slower than fdiv for integer divide (15c fdiv, 1c cast).
i've been up since midnight texting with my best friend who is also in the same time zone. i think we are both unreliable degenerates.
@leslietownes It's better than C++ and I'd rather deal with memory management than the dreadful, absolutely horrific and positive evil of garbage collection that destroys performance.
10:19
we agree on that.
The problems with the language of C, quite frankly, are ridiculous and elementary, imo, so I'm fixing it by writing my own using C to get me started.
Also, there's better ways to do manual memory management so that it's completely painless, and I intend to implement that.
Such as, for example, not introducing overly-complicated ideologies and abstractions like Rust does with "ownership semantics" and "unsafe".
one time my wife was like, what are you and your best friend talking about all day. i gave her the phone. about 100 texts about celebrities. we are stupid and hollow people.
Let the creator be the destroyer of a pointer.
we were arguing about whether a celebrity's movie was a good or bad career move. it was 100 of the dumbest imaginable texts.
i told her, you married an idiot, good luck with everything but that's what you did.
"But I have pointers everywhere and that's error prone!" Cool, make a heap or memory manager to manage your pointers and make sure it checks for NULL so that even if you free when you shouldn't, you don't deallocate memory that isn't yours, but instead warns you that you've freed when you shouldn't. Simple solution to a simple problem.
10:24
C has its virtues. it is close enough to machine language.
@OliverDiaz Could you check if this (mathb.in/61171) is right? It's my complete attempt for the problem we discussed yesterday. The only gap is whether $$\color{red}{ \int e^{-int}\, d|\mu(t)| = \int \frac{e^{-int}}{h}\, d\mu(t) \quad\quad \text{Is this true?}}$$ is true, i.e. if $d\mu = h d|\mu|$, then can we say $d|\mu| = \frac{1}{h} \cdot d\mu$? I have colored this in red in the solution. Please share your thoughts - thank you!
@copper.hat Tagging you so you can take a look at mathb.in/61171 too. It's the same problem, Rudin's 6.7.
@leslietownes Agreed, but what's even more powerful is a "high-level assembler" that gets it right the first time instead of doing a hacky patch-job that sometimes introduces language bugs and is unapologetic about breaking existing standards if necessary to get a better system that can be easily adopted and migrated to.
@leslietownes I'm curious, why did you leave math professionally?
i was not being offered enough money to make a future sensible. the landlord wanted one thing, the university was offering another. it was purely financial.
i responded to my last offer with, i literally cannot do this. i wasn't negotiating, i know they didn't have room to negotiate.
a lot of university jobs in the USA are in places with higher than average costs of living.
@leslietownes Makes sense. Do you think it's like that for almost everyone who stays in math academia? I'd like to do a PhD and get an academic job in the US, but the financial aspect always bothers me LOL
Apparently, they pay much higher in Europe.
10:30
it's tough. i think it's possible to go some places where the cost of living works out, but it's very dependent upon circumstances.
there's absolutely no way my wife could afford to be a professor where we live if i weren't not a professor. it's a delicate dance.
Ah, I see. Seems tough.
Sometimes I think about working in the industry for a bit and then jumping back to academia, but universities probably don't want to hire old folks
there's a school of thought where finances don't matter. i'm of the school of thought where finances come first. as you note it is very hard to transition back to academia from somewhere else.
True. You'd be surprised though, I was just looking up some statistics, and I saw that PhD students in Switzerland are paid 35-40k USD more than those in the US, per year
but it's not impossible. i think it's helpful to maintain relationships with academics while you go elsewhere so it doesn't seem like there is a disruption in your output even if you are technically not in academic.
It's crazy. European unis have a lot of money it seems :P
10:35
i talk with my german friend about this a lot. she was actually earning money while a phd student. i zeroed out at the end of the year. whatever came in had to go out immediately.
her state also pays for her child care, which i have to pay for myself.
i can't decide which one of us is radicalizing the other.
she isn't married yet. i keep telling her boyfriend to man up and seal the deal but what do i know about europeans.
maybe there is a tax advantage to remaining single, who knows.
hahah probably
it depends in the USA but often it is tax advantageous to be married.
@leslietownes maybe i'll consider doing a phd in europe then xD
yeah, they are apparently just throwing money around all over the place.
i am very nervous about the political climate in the united states, europe might be a better deal.
my wife was trying to find jobs in europe for a while but gave up when she got tenure.
i have a friend in korea who wants me to join his startup but the idea of moving my entire family to a place where i don't speak the language and know maybe three people seems like a bad idea.
i wouldn't mind visiting
makes sense. also canada seems to have a less intense political climate compared to the us
10:48
i've been telling my wife that we need to move to canada. lots of great cities there.
@leslietownes I hear they have beer and snow there, too.
I'm not sorry, I'm not Canadian ;-)
it might be a good hedge against climate change. i assume we're going to be underwater in about 20 minutes.
sore-y.
I keep forgetting my accent, but then again, I'm not Canadian.
. o O ( do I hear an echo? )
do you have an accent? i don't. i might be the only person on earth who doesn't.
I don't think so. We don't do accents in LA.
10:55
i may have inherited a trace of one from my parents. the first syllable of horrible rhymes with car.
yeah, but that could be from many places.
there are a few other words like that. when i get mad, it comes out and causes people to laugh.
0
Q: Finding no. of bijections $a:\mathbb N\to \mathbb N$ such that the series $\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{a(n)}{n^2}$ converges.

KoroI want to find no. of bijections $a:\mathbb N\to \mathbb N$ such that the series $\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{a(n)}{n^2}$ converges. For brevity, let $a(n)=:a_n$ and now the necessary condition for convergence of the series is $\frac{a_n}n=o(n)$ and hence for large $n$ we should have $\frac{a_n}n\lt \...

I am stuck at this question. Any hints ?
if by number of bijections, i dunno. with transpositions you get aleph_0 immediately.
maybe more than that.
i'm still trying to figure out why i'm up at 4 in the morning.
out of these aleph null, we need to find those bijections $a_n$ such that the given series converges
which i think could be 0 as well
11:01
@leslietownes that's not the question, the question is why am I awake at 4 in the morning.
if you swap two terms from the usual ordering the series will still converge.
robjohn has identified the key question.
@Koro I wouldn't be surprised at that. That is the assumption I am working under.
@leslietownes how?
i may have spoken too swiftly.
@leslietownes hmm
yeah, i don't see it happening. sorry.
this definitely feels like i'm going to be up for 36+ hours. i'm not even tired.
ugh.
oh you got a useful reply. the reference to another answer.
there are links within links in that answer. good stuff.
11:08
my question got closed. anyways i think the second answer in the link is wrong
oh, really?
hrm.
the second sum for example, why is $f(N)+f(N+1)+...+f(2N)\ge 1+2+3+...+N$?
there's no reason to believe that. right?
my cat is curled up on a sweatshirt next to my desk and is snoring. it is very soothing.
think about whether and how it could be less.
i think that will complicate things a lot. :'(
@Koro have you seen the rearrangement inequality?
11:14
I know a rearrangement theorem, which states that for absolutely cgt. series, rearrangement of a series does not change its sum
i wasted about two years of my life on a rearrangement inequality.
and for a conditionally cgt. series, rearrangement changes the sum but not the convergence.
@leslietownes is that a rearrangement of inequalities?
@Koro that is not what the Riemann rearrangement theorem says.
@robjohn never seen it 😮
The convergence can be affected.
11:17
it was supposed to be. i asked a guy who worked on von neumann algebras for his whole life and he said "Yeah i don't know anything about that." that was approximately when i stopped trying to prove it.
@robjohn sorry about that. I got confused. It will however be correct to say that "conditionally cgt. series can be rearranged to give us any desired sum" or more generally
a rearrangement that gives us a desired limsup and a desired liminf of partial sum of the rearranged series.
@robjohn I am going through this inequality, I didn't know it before.
It essentially says that $\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{a(n)}{n^2}\ge\sum_{n=1}^\infty\frac{n}{n^2}=\infty$
The statement of the inequality looks very counter-intuitive
you prove it essentially the same way that Robin Chapman answered.
If $a\lt b$ and $c\lt d$, then $ad+bc\lt ac+bd$
the difference is $0\lt (a-b)(c-d)$
professor Robjohn, I understood that from the link you shared above.
we can show it using induction.
11:28
or contradiction
that's a very powerful inequality. Thanks a lot. I never knew it before.
But I still don't understand how they got $\sum \frac n{n^2}$ in the answer. We say let $y_r=\frac 1{(n-r+1)^2}$ and clearly $y_1,y_2,...$ is increasing. There is no reason to believe that $\{1,2,3,...,N\}\subset f[\{1,2,3,...,N\}]$ for all large N
No, the $\frac1{n^2}$ is decreasing and $n$ is increasing. The rearrangement inequality says that $\sum_{n=1}^\infty n\left(\frac1{n^2}\right)$ is minimal.
Given a bijection that is not increasing, you can find one that has a smaller sum by swapping any two values which are not ordered.
You don't need a finite sum for the Rearrangement Inequality
11:47
@AMDG Which parts of that code can't you read? Most of it is very close to C (apart from the lack of semicolons & braces). Eg, the frexp & ldexp functions behave just like the C functions of the same names from <math.h>. The loop for i in range(9): is equivalent to for (i=0; i<9; i++).
I used a Python parallel assignment to handle the sign of the input arg. yy, s = (y, 1) if y > 0 else (-y, -1) is equivalent to:
if (y > 0) {
    yy = y;
    s = 1;
}
else {
    yy = -y;
    s = -1;
}
The code has a noticeable lack of explicit data types which makes it more difficult for me to read coming out of C.
I'm left guessing what x and y or z variable is.
@robjohn ahh, that's what clears my confusion.
Instead, I have to assume what the data type is from the operations of which they are not making it very obvious since you can add floats and you can add ints as well. Can't tell if there's any implict casting, etc. I'm sure you get my point on why this isn't too readable for me. :)
@AMDG Oh, ok. I like the lack of explicit datatypes. :) FWIW, I wrote C for a few decades before learning Python, but I rarely use it these days.
I hate Python and implicit typing. Nothing personal though :P
Imagine relying on whitespace as a delimiter for function start and end...
11:53
@AMDG In that code, most stuff is double precision floating point, apart from s, e, and the loop counter i.
Comments in Python start with #. So that middle section is mostly commented-out. They're just alternative polynomials that estimate the reciprocal in the [0.5, 1) range.
Hello I need some advice that I need for analyzing my data but i'm not sure how to approach it

*If group A has 1,000 people and group B has 200, then we must find a measure wherein both groups can be compared to a similar scale. This can be a measure such as an average. The problem with using an average is that outliers can play a huge role in this metric and can misrepresent the general behavior of the population. But removing this outlier can be misleading because we also want to measure the overall effect of the entire group (not just the general behavior).
@PM2Ring Ah. In which case that's slow. Your code, not even considering the fact that the Python implementations that I've seen (or heard of for that matter) are interpreted, would be over a hundred cycles. I can probably compute FSINCOS faster. If there's a fast integer arithmetic with double data type hack available, then that's fine.
That is of course assuming the compiler doesn't automatically vectorize the loop of which there is no guarantee which is why C and assembler are what I use for now.
Oh wait, nvm, it can't be vectorized as-is.
@Pherdindy Cross Validated might be a better place to get an answer to that, if you don't get an answer here.
The iterations are mutual
@AMDG That loop has a limit of 9 but it never goes that high. It usually breaks out of the loop in 3 or 4 steps because Newton's method converges quadratically. i.e., the number of correct bits doubles on every loop. And the initial approximation is already pretty good.
11:59
How many iterations are needed for 64 bits of fixed-point mantissa?
I mostly only care about O(1) implementation with same cost for every case, so however much is needed for qwords will also be the cost for bytes, words, and dwords.
@AMDG Why is Python's running speed relevant here? I'm not suggesting that you should be writing your code in Python! I just wanted to show you an algorithm, and to give you a way to run it so you can see how well it works.
Sorry, hard not to rant about these things sometimes :)
But again, that 72c is assuming that I compiled your python code to x86/x87 in my head, but you said it's doubles, so that will be significantly more than 72c.
fadd alone is 5c, 1 throughput.
I can get 1c, 4 throughput with fixed-point add since it uses integer arithmetic.
(Which, honestly, makes me beg the question of why x87 arithmetic is so expensive. I don't think I'll ever use float instructions except in the case where it happens to be faster [somehow] than using integer arithmetic)
So I'm sure you can see why Newton's method isn't a terrible idea, but also likely not better than using hardware divide.
The single bottleneck I have for finding a subpattern within a pattern is a single divide, and the other instructions take 6 or 7 cycles, but we'll still be waiting 34c for the divide to catch up. Not to mention, having a fast divide implementation also opens up algorithmic possibilities that would previously have been considered impractical.
The best lead I have right now is solving the knapsack problem for computing reciprocals, so that's what I'm working on.
12:19
@AMDG You can use that algorithm with your own fixed-point numbers, if you want. FWIW, in my early days of coding, the CPUs only did integer arithmetic. All floating-point stuff was handled by library code that did everything using integers.
Thanks, but it still won't be fast enough unless the multiplies are reduced to powers of two.
That initial reciprocal approximation has minimum error for a linear polynomial in that range. Its maximum error is sqrt(2) - 3/2 ~= 0.08576, which occurs at the endpoints of the range and at sqrt(1/2). So it doesn't take many loops to get 53 bits of precision (the maximum for IEEE-754 double-precision floating point).
Or 64 bits of precision for that matter, right? About how many iterations do you think?
​If $\mathrm{G}$ is the centroid and $\mathrm{I}$ the incentre of the triangle with vertices $\mathrm{A} \equiv(-36,7), \mathrm{B} \equiv(20,7)$ and $\mathrm{C} \equiv(0,-8)$, then find $\mathrm{GI}$
Is there any alternate way to the regular method of using centroid and incentre formula?
@AMDG Generally it takes 4 iterations, sometimes fewer.
@AMDG No, 64 bit doubles have a 53 bit mantissa. The 1st bit is always 1, so 52 bits get stored.
12:32
I never said I was using floats strictly.
I probably should have specified that
Still, for 53 bits of mantissa, 4 iterations would be about 32c which is better than 41c, so I'll add that to the list of solutions, but I doubt that unless it can be parallelized, I will not be able to use it.
I currently have an idea right now as well for the knapsack problem. I realized that if I have 1/5 = n, 1 = 4n/5 + n/5. I can choose a power of two numerator and maybe work something out to end up with 1/5.
1/5 is just an example of course that I'm using to work this out.
@AMDG 3/2-sqrt(2) ~= 2^-3.54. We double the precision on each iteration, so the worst case is that 5 loops gives you 113 bits.
Wouldn't doubling the precision just give us a single bit if it is twice as accurate as what we had before? I must be missing something here...
Oh, it's a matter of precision strictly speaking, regardless of how the value changes from one precision to the next.
Alright, cool, thanks. I'll keep that in mind.
@robjohn thanks
Unfortunately no chat rooms in cross validated and i'm pretty sure this will be tagged as too general
@Pherdindy Ten Fold is their main chat.
12:47
Thanks
The quadratic initial approximations give you more starting bits, and that can reduce the number of iterations, which may be useful if you want more than 53 bit precision. I'll post some code that lets you compare the graphs of the various approximation functions. You can see the functions themselves, or select the "flat" option to see f(x) - 1/x
https://sagecell.sagemath.org/?z=eJxdkktv2zAQhO_6FYM0AUiHUkTq6QACChTosfChN0MoFJt0iMhUKzKx_O9LUn2kPXm9O_PtaCX1ag4WHfYJ8GUykvnfAinEZgklSQtf4R5lS_EA3jB8wKdn-XQF9-N0HYpsy0vBi6oOY55V9_bH7IiggUBEVXtViqqp6coSeYBtt39hIihF1pQVr-s8j_o6y6u29a38ly0rRFuKhguGCCapyMs2zmpelnR1NW256gtRl2FP1bxLXSQ9kuSjNk7Ow8GRw2TcPI222xPrZqIpw9f5VVKoaYaGNpgHc5KEM4zSEBXORWlPkRylwnnQvjcOrvs8jFYynGZ9HLWRtgsUhs3m5UIfQ1xAjdq6cGr-sPQ-3z7C9j6KX9uvCxnews6XS6adPFtCoRXe-uj3VVj1GP_8A1T-uT00IlTwx0m_rh2HJznGV3xze2dvb3DnW04uRNH_DVG_89Lv4-RI7DGQhSHPKgZOww1O0hy_RWa3kml0Xb1rl13Pw-Izb0CK33HhJTJ8E6vOPk8XsmMIyu76_mB_KvoTlRivMw==&lang=sage
Do people often look at computational complexity in the design process of the code? Or when things start to seem slow
I mean I always consider computational complexity of the algorithm when choosing an algorithm for my designs.
@AMDG No, doubling the precision doubles the number of correct bits.
Bob
Bob
13:02
Looing at computational complexity in the design process of the code is often a big part of the design process.
It depends, in part, what the code is for and what it does.
I usually just struggle to get things to work and do what I need it to do lol
FWIW, my answer here: math.stackexchange.com/a/1295561/207316 has C code (by Dik Winter) that calculates hundreds of decimal digits of pi, using only integer arithmetic. It also has Python code I wrote to compute large numbers of digits of e, mostly using integer arithmetic. It uses some floats to compute optimal loop sizes, but that's not strictly necessary.
I don't fully understand Dik Winter's C code. I assume it's computing some Taylor series. I did a Python version of it a little while ago that can compute as many digits as your RAM allows, because it uses Python integers, which can grow to arbitrary precision.
Oof, was that C code written by hand?
That's just awful.
@AMDG It was designed to be difficult to read. ;) It's an example of "code golf". There's a whole Stack Exchange site dedicated to that sort of thing. And before that, there was the IOCCC en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Obfuscated_C_Code_Contest
13:18
Oh, I didn't realize it was a code golf. That's a different story.
I've posted a few answers on codegolf.stackexchange.com but the prominence of special-purpose golfing languages takes a lot of the fun out of it for me.
13:36
@Pherdindy First, make the code work correctly. Then optimize any bottlenecks, if necessary. Of course, it's a Good Idea to have some familiarity with the complexity of the algorithms that you're using so that your initial solution doesn't do really slow stuff. ;) Knuth famously said that 97% of the time, premature optimization is the root of all evil. Yet we should not pass up our opportunities in that critical 3%.
@epsilon-emperor @epsilon-emperor: The first argument is not quite right. Remember that the quantities involve are complex; hence the relations of the form $a+ib<c+id<e+if$ are not valid (the order from $\mathbb{R}$ does not carry over nicely to $\mathbb{C}$).
@epsilon-emperor: What you do have is that of $p$ is a trigonometric polynomial that approximates $f\in C(T)$ bat say $\varepsilon>0$ in the uniform norm, then $\Big|\int_T (f(t)-p(t)) e^{-int}\,\mu(dt)\Big|\leq\int_T|f(t)-g(t)||\mu|(dt)\leq\varepsilon|\mu|(\mathbb{T})$
Yay! I wrote the only answer to this Physics question: physics.stackexchange.com/q/652536/123208 and it's now on the HNQ. :)
14:05
@epsilon-emperor: I left a commet here mathb.in/61172
what do I mean? ibb.co/PCVY1bp the left intersects not through the middlepoint, the right does. but how is the first case called?
Can someone explain whats going on, Im reading something which says the lipschitz constant of the function $\rho_t+V : \mathbb{R}^n\to \mathbb{R}$ is decreasing with time, and that : if $V$ is uniformly m-convex i.e $DV\geq m I $ then $e^{mt} Lip(\rho_t + V)$ is also decreasing
Is it $\varepsilon$ or $\epsilon$ in epsilon-delta?
14:42
hi everyone! I have an ODE, analytic continuation question
14:54
@SAJW take a look at the image in this article.
ah thanks
15:15
is this a valid method to find the middlepoint of a circle? Describing a tangential line is not possible for the project i make atm. can only intersect. ibb.co/FgRk9Xj
is y always the diameter if it's at 90° from a secant line?
Suppose I have 2 linearly independent vectors $a$ and $b$. $a$ and $b$ are both $n$ dimensional. and $a$ and $b$ are linearly independent. This means that $a^Tb$ is not equal to either norm a ^2 or norm b ^2(By Cauchy Schwartz) Does this mean $\|a\|_2/(\|a\|_2 + a^Tb) is independent of n. That is $a$ is O(1)
15:35
@epsilon-emperor I made some further edits to link you sent. Here is the new link mathb.in/61178
@OliverDiaz I'm reading it. So about the first blue section, I understand your argument for all $f\in C(T)$, but I do not see why my argument fails? The one with $\liminf$ and $\limsup$?
I basically showed that $0\le \liminf \le \limsup \le 0$, so $\lim = 0$
It's pretty standard, from what I know
@epsilon-emperor: Your argument is not entirely kosher since the quantities involved are complex, inequalities are not valid here: $a_n+ib_n < c_n+ic_n$
Oh okay, my bad! That was very subtle
15:59
Did you just do something like $|f(t) d\mu(t)| = |f(t)| |d\mu(t)| \le f(t) d|\mu|(t)$?
I know that $|\mu(E)| \le |\mu|(E)$, for all $E\in \mathfrak M$
01:00 - 16:0016:00 - 00:00

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