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00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 23:00

00:01
maybe in combination with leslie coin i should launch my own news network. leslie news.
@leslietownes Les News. Or even Less News.
x if you knew erin pearse it was who i was talking about.
did not know you were lapidus adjacent or i would not have been so cagey.
@leslietownes Oh, I know Erin. Great guy.
Yes, Michel was my advisor.
what an unusually small world it is.
00:06
i have an axe to grind against UCR because they did not hire my wife despite stringing her along very far in a process.
it would have been a horrific commute, however, so i thank them for that.
Yeah, UCR has problems.
There are some very good people there, and some very good programs.
But it it god awful at an institutional level.
i sort of hate the UC. it's what i know, i grew up in it. it must have been wonderful in the 60s, 70s, 80s. it was getting raunchy by the time i was there.
There... my credentials. :D
my wife's been trying to get into the CSU system, there are aspects that are similarly kind of OK even now.
but the politics is toxic with a capital t.
I'm having trouble communicating the final solution of a question. The question is simply to show the tangent pplane of a cone $z^{2} = x^{2} + y^{2}$ at $(a,b,c) \neq \mathbf{0}$ intersects the cone in a line.

I've done all the mechanical stuff so I have my tangent plane and I set it equal to the cone at the given point, after all the simplification I will be left with the expression $(x-a)^2+(y-b)^2-(z-c)^2=0$.

I know that a line is expressed in the form $t(x,y,z)$ for some scalar $t \in \mathbb{R}$. What am I missing to arrive at that sort of conclusion here? [don't kill me Ted, I kno
00:10
@leslietownes That sucks.
I spent a couple of semesters adjuncting at Cal Poly Pomona. Lovely people in the math department there, and a nice campus.
With actual blackboards.
And I have friends elsewhere in the Cal State system, all of whom seem very happy (I think Erin is still at Cal Poly SLO...).
that's where he was the last i google stalked him.
cal poly is a really good school. in both of its locations.
socialism can work, we just need to try.
have a star
00:12
Cal Poly is fantastic. I am biased in favor of Pomona---I like the population they serve a lot better---but SLO is in a really fantastic part of cali.
my wife currently teaches next to pomona. i think her school makes a good difference. coronavirus has been horrific for her students, she is basically a trauma counselor.
@leslietownes That sucks.
someday we'll look back at all of this and wonder just why it had gone so incredibly wrong.
@leslietownes Maybe. I think that folk have been prognosticating a major pandemic for years, and have been suggesting ways to mitigate, but no one in power has taken those warnings seriously.
And, given the reaction to COVID and the vaccines in my neck of the woods, I would not be surprised to see this happen again. And again. And again.
epidemiologists seem similar to mathematicians in some way. nobody wants to listen to them. who cares.
00:17
@leslietownes Yeah. And most of what they do feels so abstract and remote. And prevention is expensive and easy to dismiss if you are not in the middle of a crisis.
gotta make prevention legally actionnable
humans are biased toward wanting to fix things after the fact instead of preparing.
@leslietownes Indeed.
which is why i billed 500 hours last year to insurance litigation. :D
00:18
high fives everywhere.
Heh.
My father collected up lawyer jokes.
They were one of his favorite things.
i don't know very many of them, except the one about us being at the bottom of the ocean as a 'good start.'
which i get as a vibe but is not that great of a joke.
(I say that, as your 500 billable hours comment reminds me of one: A lawyer appears before St Peter at the pearly gates. St Peter says "Oh, my! Welcome, and congratulations! According to our records you are the oldest person to ever walk through these gates! We've been looking over your billable hours, and, according to our reckoning, you must have been at least 1200 years old when you died!").
i'll admit that made me chuckle
00:21
the first presentation i ever saw on this was an enumeration of the number of hours in the week. accompanied by: do not bill more than this in a week.
i tried to get our firm to implement 'surge billing.' it didn't catch on.
You can't read one brief for an hour, then bill four clients for the same time?
there's two forks in this path. one is definitely that sometimes your time can be equally useful for two cases.
00:22
another is, surge billing. if what you're asking me to do sucks, maybe i don't want to do it without an inducement, which is just supply meeting demand.
surge at 3x and yes i will get on that memo right away.
I love it.
i will not state the client we were working for when i came up with this idea.
but i'd guess that you could guess.
When my father was working in the legal profession (which was for a period of about 8 years after finishing his phd), he worked for the state, and was on salary.
No billable hours.
But he got to craft legislation which f'd over California in the 80s, and testified in the impeachment of a sitting governor, so... there's that.
huh who was that governor
one time i was working at a legal aid clinic and met a guy who had formerly been the cellmate of a legislator in texas.
00:24
@shintuku Evan Mecham.
he spent the whole time telling me about a number of criminal conspiracies they came up with. i said, maybe, don't tell me this?
i'm not your lawyer, that's not how legal aid works, but please don't snitch on yourself. you're the worst criminal ever.
he just wanted attention.
i went home and googled him and he had indeed done the stuff he was talking about. why he was opening his mouth about it was another issue.
Yeah, I get the impression that a lot of folk end up in jail not because they are guilty (though they very often are), but because they are too dumb to keep their mouths shut.
they LOVE to talk.
whew what a lad this mecham guy
00:26
My brother has to deal with that a lot (he is a public defender).
best of luck to him.
@leslietownes Indeed. And his specific area of expertise seems to be folk with mental health problems, so his clients are particularly interesting.
here's free legal advice, which isn't legal advice. if anyone ever asks you to tell 'your side of the story,' stop f---ing talking.
free advice: get a lawyer, lol. (i think)
hey i noticed that by myself!
00:28
@leslietownes Indeed. Also, never talk to cops.
hyper neutrino has gotten to the core of the point.
dont give your opinion to an involved party, ever hehe
i've recently gotten a couple of criminal psychology videos in my recommend on youtube
and the common theme was basically "this person let themselves get interrogated and they made them confess" and "get a lawyer, lol"
i've always thought that if you remain silent in a situation where it can be reasonably believed the questioning party is not acting in your best interest, something something
it's legal for law enforcement to lie to you, and a criminal conviction can be based 1000% on a jury believing something someone said in disagreement with what you said, with no other evidence.
do not open your mouth. if you open your mouth they can disagree with it and goodbye to you.
not legal advice just chatting. lol. :D
00:31
@leslietownes Except if you are a minor in... uh.. I think it was Illinois?
(I vaguely remember something about this on the radio last week).
Oh... not last week. Yesterday morning. It just feels like last week: npr.org/2021/06/07/1003872817/…
oh i hadn't seen this.
this is interesting, i think there is, to put it mildly, a lot of room for reform in this department.
yeah the thing is tactics they use are really effective at getting a guilty party to confess
the problem is all the innocent people they can also force to genuinely confess to something they literally never knew about
just tell us your side of the story.
you did X, right? you were in the zip code, right?
we agree that's your car, right?
on and on.
and it's all horrifically racist. for more on this, consult leslie's woke ACAB podcast.
star worthy, but i'm running out of stars
:)
the trouble is if you take something off the table as a technique you do sometimes lose the ability to have people brag about their crimes and then have it come in as evidence later. which seems like it should always matter.
i stay out of the criminal law for this reason.
let's talk about bounded linear functions on $\ell^{\infty}(\mathbb{N})$.
00:43
@leslietownes Why? That's a dumb space.
:P
them's fightin' words.
Why not the space of bounded linear functionals on a real space, such as $C_c^{\infty}(\mathbb{R}^n)$?
yeah, that's not a good example of a real space.
it's good that we're not in the wild west.
i think most disagreements out there were over stuff like this. sometimes maybe a choice of seminorms.
they were yelling at each other about cacti and seminorms on $C_c^{\infty}(\mathbb{R}^n)$.
01:16
i don't mind something being a harbinger of something else, but after that i think you have to wrap it up.
01:32
So .. uh .. I had to step out. At least I got to read an interesting legal diversion based on the assertion that "A" is not a good name for a vector.
What I had meant was that x was a usual indeterminate, and I am looking at vectors A whose transpose look maybe like [ (1+x)/(1-x), x/(1+x^2), ... ]
we got there eventually. i was envisioning something like that without having fully read what you actually wrote in the first instance.
I'm not a fan of the name "A". It was a working title, because it was defined in terms of "a", and well .. I thought "b" was a ludicrous name (that I had writing by hand).
*(that I hate writing by hand)
02:10
vectors come from the end of the alphabet.
03:09
change my mind
03:24
suppose there are 2 skew lines in space why there is a unique line passing through origin and intersecting these lines?
@PrateekMourya Consider the plane spanned by the origin (not on either line) and one of the lines.
you mean containing origin and one of those skew lines?
Does homeomorphism preserve metrizability?
yeah, it's baked into the definition.
@TedShifrin can you draw a diagram
of the plane
03:40
A few years ago there was a Russian oligarch visiting the Bay Area in his yacht named 'A' (apparently himself & wife shared the first initial A). Refueling the boat apparently cost in the vicinity of $500k.
So, A is good for expensive boats, but not for vectors.
copper, i thought we agreed to keep that private, between us.
Sorry, I have so many NDAs its hard to keep track...
Turns out a lad from my hometown Passage West was first mate on the 'A'. Small world.
Long time ago a friend was the chief engineer on one of the Carnival Cruise (I think) ships and when he came to SF I got all the high end food a starving student could want.
you know it's good if they named it for people trying to get the hell out of there.
sounds good.
i had a long running joke with one of my friends, i said, you're going to get a respiratory or venereal disease on one of those ships. these cruises are no good whatsoever.
she got the latter and i did not let her live it down.
nice buffets though.
I have some nice memories of the ferry from Ireland to France...
No lingering infections thankfully.
that should be the motto of this chat.
03:52
My life sounds sooo much more interesting if you read the clips I have written here. The banal reality is far more mundane.
Lol...I was literally about to comment your life sounds like a movie Copper......it still does in my opinion regardless of how humble you want to attempt to portray it....
I've never been in a situation to sign one NDA and here you have so many you can't keep track of....so modest.....
i can tell you some things about american foreign policy if you want
Whenever you do anything regarding funding or consulting (indeed working) in the Bay Area it involves NDAs.
@shintuku Do you know who the Dulles Brothers were?
no, gonna wikipedia
ah
They had a huge influence (mostly bad in my opinion) in current US foreign policy.
04:01
well, i knew about the iran and the guatemala coups, but not about this guy in particular
very nice reference, thanks
Indonesia, Congo, Cuba, the list goes on.
Quite astounding how much in an unconcerned democracy can be effectively dictated by two brothers.
@dc3rd Generally you want to avoid signing NDAs as much as possible.
i'll take the other side of that. sign as many NDAs as possible.
04:20
I'm a sharing kinda guy :-)
Have a nice bottle of some Bordeaux ready if you want to pop by...
 
2 hours later…
06:37
I know it's generally not really good form to link to questions here, but has anyone an idea how I can improve this question?
0
Q: How to transform a multi (2) dimensional uniform random function to a given probability density function?

paul23Well as per title, say I have the probability density function on domain $x \in [0,1] ; y \in [0,1]$ $$f(x,y) = \frac{12}{5} \left( x^2 + y^2 - xy \right)$$ Can I generate this density function from a given uniform (pseudo) random function on the same domain? When using a single variant it's slig...

I can't believe it hasn't gotten any answer for nearly half a year :/
06:58
Hello
Could someone please help me understand this construction in detail? math.stackexchange.com/questions/3449649/…
07:32
If $u$ is harmonic on $\Bbb D\setminus\{0\}$ where $\Bbb D$ is an open unit disc, such that $\lim_{|z|\to 1}u(z) = 0$ and $\lim_{|z|\to 0}u(z)/\log|z| =0$
Then I want to conclude $u$ is identically zero.
So far I can see $u(z)$ has singularity at $0$
Where does the contradiction arise when I assume $u$ is a nonconstant function?
It should be something like maximum and minimum principle for harmonic function
 
1 hour later…
08:53
Can someone tell me what is a "Integral rational number" ?
An integer
this
 
1 hour later…
10:11
I don't know what integral rational mean in other context but in math it is a rational number that is integer @Prithubiswas
Hello geniuses
Geniuses of The EA rth
11:11
@Omniman isn't any integer number a rational?
yes but not every rational number is an integer
11:27
Can anyone help me understanding the induced orientation on smooth manifolds?
0
Q: Understanding the induced orientation on Manifolds

love_sodamI have some question essentially understanding the induced orientation on the boundary of manifolds. Here is the definition given in Munkres' Analysis on manifolds Definition. Let $M$ be an orientable $k$-manifold with non-empty boundary. Given an orientation of $M$, the corresponding induced or...

yes, it's the restriction of the opposite orientation for odd $k$
so what you write after does not work for odd $k$
@Thorgott How can you tell? $\partial\Bbb H^n$ also has an induced orientation.
which is not the same as the standard orientation on $\mathbb{R}^{n-1}$ for odd $n$
11:57
@Thorgott If $(U,\varphi)$ is a positive parametrization of manifold $M$ then $\varphi|_{U\cap\Bbb H^n}$ is a negative parametrization of $\partial M$?
n is odd
yes, by definition
your observation is not irrelevant though. note that $\varphi\vert_{U\cap\partial\mathbb{H}^n}\colon U\cap\partial\mathbb{H}^n\rightarrow\partial\mathbb{H}^n$ is an orientation-preserving diffeomorphism if we endow $\partial\mathbb{H}^n$ with the induced orientation as well. it simply is not an oriented chart if we interpret $\partial\mathbb{H}^n$ as $\mathbb{R}^{n-1}$ with the standard orientation.
@Thorgott Yes what I'm asking is that. $\varphi\vert_{U\cap\partial\mathbb{H}^n}\colon U\cap\partial\mathbb{H}^n\rightarrow\partial M$ with $\Bbb H^n$ an induced orientation is an orientation preserving diffeomorphism.
For $n$ odd case, $\Bbb H^n$ has opposite orientation and $\partial M$ also has opposite orientation to orientation of $M$
What I want to show is that if $(V\cap\Bbb\partial H^{n},\psi|_{V\cap\partial\Bbb H^n})$ is a positive orientation of $\partial M$, then $(U\cap\partial\mathbb{H}^n,\varphi\vert_{U\cap\partial\mathbb{H}^n})$ overlaps positively
So it's actually contained in the orientation of $\partial M$
it isn't
note that $\varphi\vert_{U\cap\partial\mathbb{H}^n}\colon U\cap\partial\mathbb{H}^n\rightarrow\partial\mathbb{H}^n$ is an orientation-preserving diffeomorphism
Isn't this mean it's contained in the orientation?
12:13
it's an orientation-preserving diffeomorphism when you equip $\partial\mathbb{H}^n$ with the induced orientation
for it to be an oriented chart would mean that it is orientation-preserving when you equip $\partial\mathbb{H}^n=\mathbb{R}^{n-1}$ with the standard orientation
but these are opposite if $n$ odd, by definition
In my question, I assumed the orientation of $\partial\Bbb H^n$ to be induced one
the definition does not care for your assumptions
-1
Q: Doubt in approximating certain fractions.

TheFinanceOfficerWhile solving a couple of questions I intend to use the approximation techniques to the best of my knowledge. Let us say we have three instances: 1.$\frac{1.66}{6.66}$ 2.$\frac {3.33} {8.33}$ 3.$\frac {86.66} {15}$ I would lets say approximate the first one as 1/4 and second one as 2/5. How do i ...

I am unbale to understand this.
Particularly the mediant method
I am totally unfamiliar with how the method was applied
12:49
@epsilon-emperor which part is unclear
13:05
Given a local field $K$ complete with discrete valuation $\nu$, and $R$ its ring of integers (i.e., the ring consistings of the elements whose valuation is non-negative), say that for some $r\in K$, we have $4r^3\in R$ (and $3r^4\in R$ if we want to). It's probably silly, but why does it hold then that $r\in R$?
I guess I could use that we either have the $p$-adic valuation
in which case $\nu(4)\leq 2$
and then the argument works
or we have the valuation with formal Laurent series
In which case $\nu(4)=0$
so it holds then
Though I guess there'd be a more elementary argument
$\nu(4)\ge\nu(1)=0$, no?
eh, that doesn't help
Yeah xd
In the best fit line problems , for example : $(0,6) , (1,0) , (2,0)$ . We assume $y= mx+b$

then arrange this in matrix form $Ax=b$ where A = $ \begin{pmatrix} \ \ 0 \ 1 \ \\ 1 \ 1 \\ 2 \ 1\\
\end{pmatrix}$
Is it necessary that columns of A are linearly independent , if yes how do we ensure that we get linearly independent columns every time ?
13:26
@AlessandroCodenotti why does the construction work in the first place
i'm not able to digest it, seems very random
also it's a little weird that we're constructing two fat cantor sets in place of one
I think you can construct one but you have to be careful in constructing it in such a way that the complement has positive measure
The B_n are there just so that when you look at $\mu(A\cap I)$ you get less than $\mu(I)$
@ShaVuklia you can just do this with the corresponding non-archimedean absolute value right? Then $R = \lbrace x \in K : \lvert x \rvert_\nu \leq 1 \rbrace$
(I find it easier to use |.|_v rofl)
Yea, I was also thinking about doing that, but tbh, I didn't really give it an honest attempt
I mean what you want to avoid is that $\bigcup A_n$ has full measure in an interval, thing about building a fat Cantor set of measure 1/2 in [0,1], then in each of the countably many gaps you build a fat Cantor set of measure half the length of the gap and so on
let me see tho
13:39
When you take the union you get a full measure subset of [0,1]
That's the issue that B_n avoids
Because you are never going to cover the union of the B_n with the union of the A_n, so the union of the A_n cannot be full measure
wait but $4$ is an integer so $|4r^3|_\nu \leq 1$ means $|r^3|_\nu \geq 1$ no?
is 4 an integer
$\Bbb Z \hookrightarrow R$ right? lmao
But $\vert 4\vert\leq 1$ in standard absolute values right?
like for the $p$-adics
Or rather, I don't understand why you would conclude that $\vert r^3\vert\geq 1$
i don't acknowledge the existence of the p-adics. 4 is definitely an integer.
13:44
I mean, $\mathbb Z$ is still part of the integers for the $p$-adics
I might be completely out of it, but what about $\mathbb Q_2[X]/(X^2-2)$. That's a finite extension of $\mathbb Q_2$, thus local, but taking $r = X^{-1}$ you find that $4r^3$ is $X$
that sounds right.
@leslietownes Yes. A $p$-adic integer.
:P
I mean $4 \in \mathbb{Z}_p \subseteq \mathbb{Q}_p$ for any prime number $p$, n'est-ce pas?
i don't acknowledge the existence of the french language either.
13:46
Oh, neither do I.
the integers sit dIaGoNaLlY in $\Bbb Z_p$
The phrase n'est-ce pas, pronounced "nest see pass", is clearly Norwegian.
i love nestcepas. particularly with a little green onion and some soy sauce.
@ShaVuklia no this was a dumb comment, what I meant was "4 is an integer so that what I'm saying doesn't help"
not that I can conclude that r^3 isn't an integer lol
ahs xd
Just to be sure that I haven't misinterpreted sth; this is the context in my book
14:00
If $r\notin R$, then $r^{-1}\in R$, then $3r^3 = 3r^4 r^{-1}\in R$ and thus $r^3 = 4r^3-3r^3\in R$. Finally $r\in R$
omg ;v
;'v'v'v'vv'vv;v
I have to start thinking again
thx!
I'm now convinced my counterexample above was a counterexample
Suppose that 2% of people complete the task between 4 and 4.1 seconds. Approximately what proportion of people are likely to complete the task between 4 and 4.01 seconds? Assume a uniform distribution.
@Astyx Sry, what is it you're convinced of?
I think no need to answer the question I just feel the explaination on the book is too akward
14:16
what would be the evaluation of $X$ btw in your previous example?
I don't know much about local fields/valuations, and in particular I don't know if the valuation is extended uniquely, and if so, how it is extended
I mean, you showed that the valuation of $X$ has to be $0$, but
Is the answer approximation btw
I'm guessing you proposed this example because you initially thought the valuation of $X$ would be positive
I proposed this examples because intuitively I thought that 4 could not have a valuation greater than 2 because it's $2^2$ and 2 is prime
This is false because the valuation of an extension restricted to the original field can be a multiple of the original valuation (so $2\nu$ on $R$ instead of $\nu$, for instance)
In particular if $4$ has valuation greater than 3, then taking $r$ to be the inverse of any uniformizer is going to yield a positive valuation for $4r^3$
Even though the inverse of a uniformizer is never positive
Right, I had forgotten about uniformizers
14:51
I came across this answer but I don't understand something: They write "Then, all conditions of the dominated convergence theorem are satisfied,... ", which implies that $h_n$ converges pointwise but is this the case? If yes, why?
To be more specific: $h_n$ is defined as $f_{n+N}$ but we only know that $f_n$ converges uniformly and not pointwise
uniform convergence implies pointwise convergence
sniped
D:
Hey everyone
I just had a complex analysis exam
I wonder if I solved a question correct, I'm a little confused about it
@Thorgott I already thought so, but why is a new proof necessary for uniform functions? Or is the main-problem to prove that the functions are integrable?
Could you please check my solution?
15:06
the point of the question is the converngece of the integrals, not of the functions, I'm not sure what "new proof" is referring to as I don't know what you think of as old proof
The conditions are "Let $(\Omega,\mathfrak{A},\mu)$ be a measurable space and $\mu(\Omega)<\infty$. Let $(f_n)_{n\geq1}$ be a sequence of integrable measurable functions $f_n:\Omega \rightarrow [-\infty,\infty]$ converging uniformly on $\Omega$ to a function $f$." But aren't these conditions already enough to apply DNT?
tell me how you would do it
15:28
Should I prove that $\lvert f \rvert+\epsilon$ is integrable?
Is this everything? (I don't think so, it's too "trivial", especially if it's already known that $\lvert f_n \rvert$ is bounded.)
why would $|f_n|$ be bounded
Because my exercise assumes it
and because $f_n$ converge uniformly to $f$ so (from the answer): $|f_n| = |f_n - f + f| \leq |f_n - f| + |f| < |f| + \varepsilon$
$|f|$ need not be bounded
15:46
Okay then could you please tell me what there is left to prove? My problem is not about how, it is about what
Everything is left to prove, we haven't done anything yet
For what it's worth, I don't see a good way of using DCT here. This is much simpler than that.
Quick random question: Uniform continuity is a topological property, in that equivalent metrics produce the same uniformly continuous functions, correct? I was looking over a question that involved the infinity norm instead of Euclidean and was thinking since everything is just in terms of sufficiently close in the metrics involved, one could use an equivalent metric by just rescaling the $\epsilon, \delta$?
uniform continuity is a metric property, not a topological property
there's a small discrepancy since there are two distinct notions of equivalence of metrics
Yep, just learned that from the answer in the link with examples as to why in non-compact spaces.
the notion of equivalence of metrics as inducing the same topology is kind of a misnomer
16:01
I was taught two metrics are equivalent if you can bound one in between the other with suitable positive constants, and that made it induce the same topology
a better notion of equivalence of metrics, which actually preserves a lot of metric properties such as uniform continuity, is that each metric is bounded uniformly by the other up to a multiple (i.e. the identity map is Bilipschitz)
yeah, for that notion of equivalence, which is also what you presumably meant by "rescaling the $\epsilon,\delta$", everything works out
and this in particular applies to $p$-norms on finite-dimensional Euclidean spaces
Ahh, check.
it simply is the case that "bounding each other by a multiple" implies, but is a much more rigid requirement than just inducing the same topology
Identity being bilipschitz is a stronger form of quasi-isometry. In any case the point is that in this case the two metrics don't just induce the same topology, they induce the same uniformity
I had a feeling you would bring up quasi-isometry smh
16:05
Got it, so I was taught the stronger form.
Actually, now that I think of it, I think I really learned about for norms, not metrics, in that proof that in finite dimensional real vector spaces, all norms are equivalent
Meanwhile I'm sitting in class while my students work on remedial mathematics, currently on the joys of one variable linear equations :). For this I did 7 years of grad school....
16:36
@AlessandroCodenotti so i can see that if do not see B_n's at all, the first inequality still holds
we want the second inequality to hold
can we incorporate that in the construction of A_n's itself
without worrying about B_n's
Looks doable but annoying
Howdy! I'm not a math guy so I can't really understand if this question has been asked before, but is it possible to order an infinite set of different real numbers?
the word order can mean many things, what exactly do you want to do
17:11
Descending or ascending order, I think they're technically total orders but not well orders?
In general, no.
the standard ordering, i.e. $a>b$ iff $a-b$ is positive, is a total order
or are you asking whether they can be well-ordered?
I'm assuming it can't be well ordered, since Z has no least element, but would it be possible to linearly order it, even in an infinite amount of time?
it can be well-ordered
though I should point out that it is not at all clear what such an order looks like
17:30
Hi! I have a question regarding the foundation of mathematics (f.o.m). Why people look at set theory (or even ZFC version) as a basic of all mathematical objects? Is it because every mathematical theorem and objects can be turned into set-theoretic objects. I have this question because Godel proved his theorem based on set theory, he proved that all mathematics is not complete based on set theoretic arguments that shows that there are mathematical statement which we cannot prove or disprove
not all people look at set theory as foundations
in fact, most people don't really look at foundations at all, because the precise foundations only matter occasionally in most other areas of mathematics
@Thorgott If so, then how can you prove that something in mathematics is independent of the axioms of mathematics?
where do they matter
I don't quite understand your question, there's no such thing as "the axioms" and if you have a specific set of axioms, you can prove a stement to be independent of these axioms (only under the assumption of their consistency, mind you) by exhibiting different models of the axioms in which the statements have different truth values
@Thorgott So what I understand from you is that in mathematics we don't have "the axioms" instead, we have "axioms of the set theory" (or axioms of geometry or etc.) but we don't have "axioms of all mathematics objects", Is this what you are trying to emphasize?
17:53
Part of it, yes. Most people do use ZFC, but most people also don't really care. Those who really care are logicians and set theorists and a lot of their work explicitly revolves around understanding different axiom systems and how they interrelate.
@user777 Part of the power of Gödel's theorem is that it applies to any set of axioms that is both manageable and interesting (in some precise sense, namely being recursively enumerable and interpreting (some fragment of) PA)
As to why ZFC is used mostly historical reasons I guess
convenience
though the convenience is historical too in some sense
18:14
@Thorgott Thank you
@AlessandroCodenotti is there an easy way to show that the structures we discussed a few days ago are elementarily equivalent?
@AlessandroCodenotti Thank you!
My book uses Taylor's theorem while dealing with a local field $K$ (complete w.r.t. discrete valuation). Is this allowed because analysis can be done on local fields?
Hm, a paper online seems to imply we can't hope for a version of Taylor's thm in such a case
A local field is a completion of a global field, you can do analysis on local fields
why tf does completing something global give something local
18:26
why tf not
that's some dumb terminology if I've ever seen some
R and C are local
@EdwardEvans Sure, we can do analysis, but do we have Taylor's thm?
@porridgemathematics I'm not convinced that they are so I don't know how to show it either :P
yeah I guess a hunch in this case that they are isn't founded on much beyond 'we can really only talk about the size of sets associated with $f$ in this language', and thats not an especially robust foundation
18:29
the question is what Taylor's theorem means in this context
@ShaVuklia is the "Taylor's theorem" you're referring to used in a proof of Hensel's lemma?
This is part of the context
So we have a polynomial f(x,y)
and then what the screenshot says
it's just formal differentiation I think
Taylor's theorem always holds for polynomials
that's pure algebra
18:31
Oh wait
pUrE aLgEbRa
you write $f(x)=f((x-a)+a)$ and expand
or analogously with more variables
yea, lol
thx
its nice that it really is just pure algebra, I guess you would expect it to be because polynomials
18:32
idk what the situation is for any old Q_p valued function, p-adic analysis is weird af
and real analysis actually
real analysis is fine
stfu
sry i <3 u
its ok bb
18:49
@Thorgott finally
pure algebraum
eh
can I prove that by induction?
no ok ok
I think I see it (partially)
like the derivatives
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