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10:00 PM
the cost of jokes is that we are sometimes the butt of them
 
anybody who is truly toxic will reap their rewards without me joining a crowd of people piling on abuse. every skill eventually finds its application.
some of the funniest stuff i've ever heard is extremely offensive. my mother was a nurse. she'd come home and joke about dying patients as a coping mechanism. it rubbed off on me.
 
Of course, there are some jokes I would not tell at the end of the night in a karate club get together on the border.
 
@copper.hat what
 
the first time my now-wife met my mother, my mother made a series of what she regarded as humorous observations about the fate of one of her patients. afterward my wife said: "i now understand."
my mom was fired once from a job for refusing to let family members into a room, when the patient, who was of sound mind in his mid 30s, had made it very clear he did not want them there. so you have to find your laughs somewhere.
 
My family has a macabre sense of humour, especially at rough times, we usually keep it contained. But every now and then at hospitals or funeral homes it spills over and the looks on faces are almost worth the cost to the family rep.
 
10:07 PM
@leslietownes I'll try not to die next time in the hospital
don't wanna be the subject of peoples jokes
 
oh, we absolutely tortured the funeral home guy who buried my grandmother. he had no idea what he was stepping into.
 
@HereToRelax Don't donate your body to science.
 
my grandmother had alzheimers and was convinced for the last years of her life that when she saw a car on TV, it was her car and that someone had stolen it and driven away with it. she'd also hoarded several hundred rolls of toilet paper. my aunt insisted to the funeral home guy that she be buried in her car with toilet paper. she was joking but didn't let on.
it's rude to do that to someone whose job is basically being polite for a living.
but there was all kinds of that nonsense flying around.
 
its cultural
 
my aunt was very funny. when she was about 12 she sculpted a venus de milo out of snow and the newspaper reported on it because it was regarded as scandalous.
 
10:11 PM
we put the carrot in the wrong place
 
in law school i lived about five blocks from that aunt. we met for dinner once. that's also a thing about my family.
 
I need to open up a tex editor on the side
 
I thought this was going to be a story about when you met for dinner once
 
that's write, texes are due shortly
 
Not a statement about the number of times you met for dinner.
 
10:13 PM
hahaha. no. it's just a story about, i lived within sight of her building for three years and indeed we had dinner only once.
i'd sometimes see her on the street and not say hi because she was too far away and neither of us are expressive people.
my friend had an apartment right across the street from her and i'd look out the window and see that her lights were on. we're complicated people.
 
that's families.
 
i try to bother my daughter with too much attention so she doesn't inherit the silent thing.
 
@TedShifrin running into a problem in showing $S' = S \cup S^{F}$, is closed, where $S^{F}$ is the set of frontier points.

I want to do it showing the union of the complements is open: $\mathbb{R}^{n} \setminus (S \cup S^{F}) = (\mathbb{R}^{n} \setminus S) \cup (\mathbb{R}^{n} \setminus S^{F})$. I know $\mathbb{R}^{n} \setminus S^{F}$ is open because I proved $S^{F}$ is closed in the previous question.

I don't know much about $S$ except that it is composed of interior points and frontier points. Frontier points are taken care of in $S^{F}$, but I'm not sure how I can claim $\mathbb{R}
 
if i bother to click 'start chatjax' i need a guarantee that it's not going to be removed before then.
 
Lol...we're good @leslietownes
 
10:17 PM
dc3rd this is the kind of thing i wouldn't even bother to think about when i was an undergrad, i'd just go to the library and find a theorem that proved or disproved it. this is not a model for being a student. it's just what i did.
i see my remark as parallel to what you're trying to do, which is actually understand the result, which i do not discourage you from doing.
 
It's that sort of cleverness that got you a PhD. Knowing how to work smart
 
there's just so much stuff near the beginning of subjects where it doesn't seem to add very much, and there's so much time spent on it. measure theory is a cesspit of this kind of thing. theorem after theorem of the same techniques just to get you to a usable set of tools.
chapter 2 of rudin i would nominate for this sort of thing. just a big well that you can jump into and fall down, if you want, but why would you.
 
you need to pushforward to make it through the charts, atlases, ets
i hate sitting on hold.
i start yammering at the music then...
 
But like you said leslie, it builds you up to a usable set of tools.........can't use the tools if you have no idea how they work........and how I ended up in the conundrum I'm in now.
 
i agree. and if i'm being honest i did eventually spend the mental labor to understand the footsteps to get there. i just did it out of order, i wanted the tools first.
 
10:22 PM
I "should" be out in the world doing mathy modeling here and there like a "mathematical clairvoeynt" as I like to call myself, but instead because I got so many pity passes and the profs banking on me dropping out I'm in this gap period of skill upgrade....shrugs...
 
one time i was on a fairly hostile call with opposing counsel and i said, your hold music is more musically adventurous than average. they'd added a major second to a major triad and that is not something you usually hear on hold music.
it was irrelevant to everything but distracted him for a minute. that's my value-add as a lawyer.
usually on hold music it's in a major key and once or twice they put in blues notes in a melody.
i wonder if that's by law, or something, it's very uniform.
 
LOL if they think an add2 is adventurous, they would hate my music
I love polytonality.
 
i was just trying to change the subject from unpleasantness. i said, your firm's hold music is more interesting musically than our firm's hold music. in a weird way it was a negotiation tactic.
it didn't work.
 
Ah, got it. Sorry, I'm skimming too fast after going through student e-mails
 
it's very adventurous for hold music.
i dunno what royalties we'd have to pay to put, say, frank zappa as our conference bridge music. probably too high or we'd already be doing it.
 
10:29 PM
Cory Wong has an album of elevator music. Pretty adventurous stuff IMO
I'd love to see Schoenberg being played at conferences lol
 
there's an indian instrument, i forget the name, it sounds a whole lot like the human voice. the masters almost always play it slightly out of tune to mimic the human voice. it's something else.
might be the sarangi.
 
@dc3rd everyone has their own model of working. in this case i think the relevant fact is that a set creates a partition: interior, boundary and exterior. the set must contain the first and may contain parts of the second. Using this some results become a little more evident.
 
i went to a show once where a guy was playing that and it completely floored me.
 
sounds like something captain kirk might have encountered
 
Hi, may i ask for a few good references to read for Green's Theorem? I am graduate in engineering field, so I am not a scientist or mathematician.
 
10:35 PM
i would repeat that request. it was always something of a black box for me.
 
@enthu are you looking for a proof of it? Or are you just looking to learn how to use it computationally?
 
i understood it for rectangles and i have a general feeling of how it might generalize. but it's not my specialty.
 
@anakhro I am looking for its applications and using it in my own problems.
 
Is wikipedia insufficient for that?
There are also things like this: math.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Calculus/…
 
i'll admit, the treatment on wikipedia is better than i would expect.
 
10:44 PM
@copper.hat so thinking about it for a moment......would you be hinting at the fact that the exterior points of my set can also be considered "interior" points of the complement. And by definition of interior point there exists a neighborhood....blah, blah, blah....
 
well, i wasn't really hinting, but yes, the exterior is the interior of the complement and so is open. so you can see that a set union its boundary must be closed. my point was more that you can find a few results that will help develop an 'intuition' or a quick way of approaching a problem so you don't go into surgery every time you encounter a problem.
 
@anakhro It is good but I need something to read more a bit and be able to refer to later in my publication...
 
rudin's principles of mathematical analysis has the result but it is a consequence of much more algebraic machinery.
if you are looking for a reference it is good, if you are trying to understand, well...
 
@copper.hat thank you copper, I will read it. I also remember of Apostol's book, I used to read it when I was BSc junior student. Not sure whether it is mentioned there or not.
 
"don't go into surgery every time"........@copper.hat you really hit home with that, why you reading my behavior so accurately? 😂😂
 
10:55 PM
many have been there.
 
I'm getting more comfortable with "letting the theorems do the work".....I'm getting there....lol
 
So, @dc3rd, I'm back from shopping. Where do you stand?
 
I got the question I asked you done. Just fiddling away at establishing the closure is the smallest closed set containing $S$.
thanks to the nudge from copper
 
OK, well, Just checking.
 
Thanks.
 
11:13 PM
@enthu Aside from standard calculus texts? What precisely are your trying to do with Green's Theorem?
 
11:28 PM
Ted, I have a curve $x^3 + y^3 = z^3$ which defines a complex manifold over $\mathbb{CP}^2$. It should be a Riemann surface, right, not 2-dimensional?
 
Over?
 
(complex 2-dimensional, I mean)
I guess I mean that it's a complex curve in $\mathbb{CP}^2$
 
It is the zero-set of a homogeneous polynomial, so a well-defined hypersurface in $\Bbb P^2$. Thus a curve.
Yup.
Checking nonsingularity, it's smooth and therefore a R.S.
 
I am just trying to come up with charts for it. My first guess was to use something like $\{[x:y:z] \mid z\neq 0\}$, but this was the method for showing that $\mathbb{CP}^2$ was a complex 2-manifold.
I guess because it is defined by that curve, then after taking $[x/z:y/z:1]$, $x/y$ determines $y/z$, so it's just one dimensional.
My gut is telling me that I should be able to use the Riemann surface defined by $x^3 + y^3 = 1$ here. That one clearly is complex 1-dimensional, and then I can use its chart?
 
It's always implicit function theorem.
Do the proof once and for all with general $F$ ...
 
11:39 PM
I did the proof for general F yesterday, but that was not with the projective stuff. I am getting hung up on going back and forth between projective and non-projective.
Implicit function theorem to show that $x^3 + y^3 = 1$ is a Riemann surface: I get that. But can I use implicit function theorem on my projective example, or do I have to go through x^3 + y^3 = 1's charts?
My implicit function theorem is only for $\mathbb C$ after all.
 
Good exercise to deduce that in homogeneous coords nonvanishing gradient on $F=0$ always a smooth hypersurface. Yes, convert to charts and use homogeneity.
 
weeps
 
I feel I got most of the proof right in showing the closure is the smallest closed set:

let $a \in \mathbb{R}^{n} \setminus C$ this implies $a \notin S\ \Rightarrow a \in [S^{F} \cup (\mathbb{R}^{n} \setminus S)]$. But $a \notin S^{F}$ because $S^{F}$ is closed. So $a \notin (S \cup S^{F}) = \mathbb{R}^{n} \setminus S'$.

This is on your hint of showing $\mathbb{R}^{n} \setminus C \subset \mathbb{R}^{n} \setminus S'$
The only thing I feel uneasy about is using that $S^{F}$ is closed the way that I did.
 
Also, Euler's Thm on Homogeneous Functions is useful, @anakhro.
Did you use $C$ closed?
 
@dc3rd the boundary is the intersection of two closed sets.
 
11:51 PM
@TedShifrin I think I know that one. The virial theorem from astrophysics uses it.
Very speedy proof of the homogenous function theorem itself.
@TedShifrin so I end up with two charts that cover {z \neq 0}? One derived from the x coordinate, and the other from the y coordinate.
 
You still need charts at infinity too.
 
I haven't proven that @copper.hat, but I'm going to attempt that now, because then everything else flows nicely once I "know" that
 
@TedShifrin aren't the points at infinity for other charts, like {x\neq 0} and {y\neq 0}? I think I only have three points at infinity, and z=0 in all of them.
 
Right. Those are the points at infinity. Agreed.
 
@dc3rd ok, it depends on how you define the boundary, the definition i use is the intersection of the closure with the closure of the complement.
 
11:59 PM
So in all probably 6 charts I am guessing. Will try the other two, though I am not so clear on how to handle those...unless they are identical to the z\neq0 case because I still get a similar polynomial, it's just different coordinates.
 

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