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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

00:02
pure algebra
Hey @Mike, if I have a space $X$ and subspaces $A,B\subset X$, is there a LES $...\rightarrow\overline{H}^k(X,A)\rightarrow\overline{H}^k(X,B)\rightarrow \overline{H}^k(A,A\cap B)\rightarrow...$? I think I have such a thing, but it looks so bizarre that I'm doubting.
eh, overline should be tilde
Hm. I assume you know the LES of a triple and that's not what you're looking for?
Uhhhh I mean let's think about it
I don't like cochains so let's do chains
yeah, it's not a triple necessarily
We've got (A, A cap B) with its inclusion into (X, B)
The quotient of C_*(X, B) = C_*(X)/C_*(B) by C_*(A, A cap B) = C_*(A)/C_*(A cap B) ought to be C_*(X)/C_*(A + B) by n'th isomorphism theorem?
So your first thing ought to be H^*(X, A cup B)?
hmm, that isomorphism isn't clear to me
00:16
You're killing off what's left of C_*(A) and you've already killed off C_*(B)
Which seems to me to be the same as killing off their sum
Maybe play with some examples? X = [0,1], A = {0}, B = {1} is the simplest case I can think off
Ought to show what's true and what's not
Sanity check: if I have a LES $0\to A_1\to A_2 \to \dots \to A_n \to 0$ then $\sum_{i=1}^n (-1)^i\dim A_i=0$
Yes break into SES
Or induct
I done said that earlier, mr @Astyx.
Ok I'm giving a talk to some kids about why R^n_p is not isometric to R^n_q
So I'm off in like 5
Yikes. Be gentle!
00:22
Oh right I should have read more carefully
Thanks!
I'll do my beav
best
What's $R_p$?
p-norm
Reassociate, Astyx :)
Is it $L^p(\Bbb R^n)$ ? I've never seen this notation before
00:27
No.
Just a norm on $\Bbb R^n$.
Oh ok I'm dumb
<- hasn't done analysis in forever
The usual one is $p=2$.
The fact that it's 1:30 probably isn't helping either
So I should go to bed
Bonne nuit?
seeya
And sorry about the crepes, I didn't keep any for you
00:32
Grrrr.
But I hope you made your own for the Chandeleur!
The who?
Candlemas in english apparently
hmm, my sequence breaks down in degree 0 for the example and yours doesn't seem to
but I thought I had a construction
so I must be overlooking something
00:59
To whom you mumbling, Thor?
aha, careful examination shows my "construction" was utter nonsense since I was trying to excise a non-interior point
I was mumbling to Mike once upon a time, but now I'm just talking to myself
Ah, OK. Forgive my interruption of your soliloquy.
01:33
Hi @TedShifrin
Hi, Karim
01:52
@Astyx Usually people don't pay too much attention to this since they all give the same topology.
But they have interestingly different geometry.
It is a lot harder to prove that they are not isometric than you would think.
Reference: "Handbook of geometry of Banach spaces", Vol 1, Ch 1, Section 8
02:07
I remember I tried proving that some while ago and fell very flat on my face
02:24
It is hard!
It is easier to show how far they are from being isometric, quantitatively, than it is to simply show they are not isometric
I've never pondered this, I realize.
sounds like analysis alright
I should look at that reference eventually, cause I've never actually seen the proof
Is looking at distance between spheres of radius $r$ Relephant?
What distance?
I mean different $r$, of course.
02:30
If you mean the distance internal to the norm, it's just r-s.
Shortest?
No, I mean ambient.
What does ambient mean?
Oh. Right. Fix a norm and do ambient .
Think l^1, l^2, l^inf.
I think that doesn't make sense / isn't preserved under random linear isometries between unrelated norms.
02:32
The thing to do is try to find a lower bound on |T|_{p -> q} |T^{-1}|_{q -> p}. The infimum of this over all linear isos gives a metric on the space of normed spaces mod isometry.
Well, log of that. That's 1 iff the normed spaces are isometric.
Then find d(R^n_2, R^n_p) = log n |1/p - 1/2|. The identity map gives the best possible, and then you find a lower bound by playing with the parallelogram law and watching what happens to T(sum pm e_i).
From there, for p,q both on the same side of 2, you get d(R^n_p, R^n_q) = log n |1/p-1/q|.
You get a lower bound on distance for non conjugate exponents but not an equality when they're on opposite sides of 2. Now the identity map is no longer the best possible T.
Doing it for conjugate exponents other than 1, infty is hard. I don't know how to do it.
I figured addition was the crucial thing. But I'm too old for this problem.
I found it very difficult. I thought it would be totally obvious.
Two difficult things in two days. I'm scared.
Anyway, talk went OK. I stumbled a bit. :(
The point is to focus in the case of p=inf and q=2 for inspiration.
Since then the vectors sum pm e_i are actually the extreme points.
02:49
Ah, right, not so always!
Right. But they are still "the worst directions", where |x|_p/|x|_2 is maximized, for p >= 2.
Yes, and axes for $p\le 1$.
2. But yeah.
It's a solid idea.
Oh yeah, 2.
Concavity alone changes at 1.
@MikeMiller what is $R^n_p$?
is it $L^p(\mathbb{R}^n)$?
02:58
No, p-norm.
What are situations in which one uses naturality of the isomorphism $\tilde{H}_k(X) \rightarrow \tilde{H}_{k+1}(\Sigma X)$? It is useful in one of our exercises, finding a degree $k$ map for for every $n$-sphere, where this quickly yields the induction step
It all feels too much like a bag of tricks to me, so I'm starting to look for heuristics
Every orientable vector bundle over a 1-dimensional CW complex is trivial, right?
It's natural. Do $n=1$ and suspend.
R^n with the p-norm. Geometry of finite dimensional.normed spaces.
@user2103480 Uh I can probably come up with examples but that's probably not necessary. The point is that it's a construction on spaces. Any decent construction on spaces is functorial, so you get naturality for free.
@Thorgott Yes, this is a good definition of orientability.
w_1(E) can be constructed as the obstruction to trivializing a bundle over the 1-skeleton
@MikeMiller ok then what are other decent constructions which yield natural isomorphisms
03:14
I have an inductive argument for finite 1-dim CW complexes. The infinite case isn't as clear to me. Is it some limiting argument (the complex is the colimit of its finite subcomplexes, so the bundle should be the colimits of its restrictions to the finite subcomplexes and then a colimit of trivial bundles will be trivial)?
Uhhhh, X x Y? X disjoint union Y?
@user2103480 the Künneth isomorphism is natural
H^*(X x Y;k) = H^*(X) o_k H^*(Y), naturally in X
everything is natural tbh
H^*(X sqcup Y) = H^*(X) oplus H^*(Y)
03:15
except the splitting in UCT
Yeah but that comes from algebra not topology.
true
the SES is still natural though, which is relevant
Yeah
Anyway I dunno man I do what feels appropriate I don't have examples right now or anything
also, algebraic construction and not a topological one, but the snake lemma construction turning an SES of chain complexes into LES of homology groups is functorial
if you ever write down a diagram and wanna argue it commutes, this fact takes care of most of those cases
This is all too formal
03:20
see starred image
03:34
Okay nice these I could've thought of as well. Also, more in the algebraic spirit of what thor mentioned, the SES from the universal coefficient theorem
03:47
What are these good for? Idk context dependent
 
1 hour later…
05:01
I am having problems with the solving this integration.May be I am making some mistake in a certain step.The r and W values are constants.The answer reads 16.48
Limits are given as required.There is no unit balancing that needs to be done in y understainding
 
1 hour later…
06:29
@user586228 I recognise some of the marks on the paper but there is little by way of coherency or context. It is not surprising that you are having issues.
06:57
Is the improper integral $$\int_{-1}^{2} \frac{\mathrm d x}{x}$$ divergent? I don't think so. We can break the given integral in the three following integrals: $$\underbrace{\int_{-1}^{2} \frac{\mathrm d x}{x}}_{I} = \lim_{h\to 0^{+}} \left(\underbrace{\int_{-1}^{-h} \frac{\mathrm d x}{x}}_{I_1} + \underbrace{\int_{h}^{1} \frac{\mathrm d x}{x}}_{I_2} + \underbrace{\int_{1}^{2} \frac{\mathrm d x}{x}}_{I_3}\right)$$ In the above sum, $I_1 = -I_2$, thus we obtain...
$$I = \lim_{h\to 0^{+}} I_3\implies I = I_3$$
Am I correct?
$$I = I_3 = \ln 2$$
07:26
I currently resigned to understand Tor functor. I hope class professor will teach about that in spring semester
07:55
@copper.hat From the equation I am supposed to calculate R is that ok?
@user586228 I can't really figure out what you are attempting to do.
I am attempting to solve the definite integral on both the sides and to calculate R..
That is al...
all
@copper.hat I feel that I have mentioned the boundary conditions everywhere.
sry, i really cannot figure out what the question is. im going to bed shortly, hopefully someone can assist you.
ok np:-)
 
2 hours later…
09:42
@FakeMod what about $\int_{-h}^h\frac{\mathrm{d}x}x$?
What you are looking at is called the Cauchy Principal Value of the divergent integral.
Note that you could have broken up the interval as $\int_{-1}^{-h}\frac{\mathrm{d}x}x+\int_{2h}^2$ and the limit as $h\to0$ is different.
This is the problem with divergent integrals.
 
1 hour later…
10:59
@robjohn $x = 0$ is a point of singularity, so I did that to avoid integrating at $x = 0$.
@robjohn Ah, I see, now it all makes sense. Thank you!
 
2 hours later…
13:07
Hi @MikeMiller
I attended a talk today on singular foliations
Do you know what a singular foliation is
I know some things that should clearly be examples but no
A singular foliation on $M$ is a finitely generated $\mathcal{C}^\infty(M)$-module $A$ which is bracket-closed.
Lol o k
13:16
😂
Foliation by flowlines of a morse function?
I think you lose examples like foliation by concentric circles
No way
If that's the case what is the point
I don't think concentric circles with the center is considered to be a singular foliation by geometric topologists
13:19
For surfaces the pictures I have seen are always locally like index n vector fields right
a point with flowlines of vector fields exiting the point
Need not even be vector fields, because then you miss the tripod example
@MikeMiller lose examples as in your morse description
or were you just giving examples
No example is missed by the algebra definition I think lmao
Oh
I'm fine with that then
I was asking if those were examples
Sorry I didn't realize you were giving a class of examples
Yeah obviously, in retrospect
Yeah, sorry, I meant "These should clearly be examples right"
13:22
Yeah they are haha
Radial foliation, hyperbolic foliation, circcular foliation
Phew!!!
@BalarkaSen Can you help me out with this problem
Nope
@MikeMiller The talk proceed: "We consider all free $C^\infty(M)$-resolutions of $A$, and equip these with Lie brackets-upto-homotopy"
@copper.hat The previous problem
It is a definite integral that I am struggling to solve.
13:25
They basically show a singular foliation is an $L_\infty$-algebroid
Solid stuff
@user586228 I don't know how to do it, I am sorry. Maybe someone else can help
I starred the question for further attention
ok thanks a lot
Algebraists
Nutcases, yeah
Hi, I have a question. Does every(compact or non-compact) surface without boundary has the property: there is a Riemannian metric on the surface such that every non-trivial element of the fundamental group can be represented by a shortest loop.
For compact I know this.
But what about non-compact I don't know
shortest in the sense of least length in free homotopy class
good question maybe
i dont know immediately
Let me tell you what I know far more: every non-compact surface without boundary cover(continuous sense) closed surface of negative Euler characteristic.
My question is what is the value of y..Where y is a constant.
I am trying to pullback the Riemannian structure and then
@User873110 My guess is that if you have a homotopy class which has loops of arbitrarily small length in the universal cover it'll bound a cusp
But you can always modify the metric on a cusp so that it has some nontrivial waist
(this is like imposing some metric on S^1 x I so that the waist is achieved in the middle)
Maybe I am wrong, but I am talking about not arbitrary metric rather does there exists for which.....
13:34
Oh arbitrary metric? That's totally false
Take a hyperbolic cusp
not arbitary metric
sorry
@BalarkaSen This is my question..I feel it seems very easy isn't it?
what about the plane without the origin
how do you modify the metric there to get this
@Thorgott Think hyperboloid of one sheet
I think you are talking about: think annulus as suspension type object on S^1 with vertex removed, and then circles in the there are infinitely many circles has a decreasing length converging to vertecies.
13:38
Yes, and you can always modify that to get shortest loop (see comment above)
So maybe it's always possible, because what else can be the issue
yep. Let me ask you another question does this problem has any relation with sectional curvature?
I don't follow. A one-sheeted hyperboloid isn't a plane without the origin.
@Thorgott wat? It's homeomorphic to a cylinder, which is homeomorphic to plane without the origin
Just take a cylinder and make it curvy so that it has some waist. Shrug
He perhaps means one sheet of the 2-sheeted hyperboloid
13:40
What is the calculus of variations argument?
what is paraboloid. I know hyperboloid.
@User873110 The point is in a hyperbolic surface you always attain the minimal length unless you're going off to a cusp
Doesn't matter, but also that's the kind of thing you can google easily
But that's all it has to do with curvature
I see.
13:41
I'm certain that the calculus of variations proof will apply in the noncompact case given some basic assumptions (complete metric, maybe some lower bound on sectional curvature?)
What the natural assumptions are should become clear as one chases through a proof
I agree with Mike.
oh yeah,im stupid
I agree with Thorgott.
5
So, it is possible upon some restriction on sectional curvature. Right?
We do not know because we do not know the proof. I am saying that if you carefully read a "calculus of variations'' style proof in the case of closed hyperbolic surfaces you will be able to identify exactly what assumptions are used and figure out the generality in which it is true.
There's no value in having a bunch of facts without understanding why they are true. That's why we do mathematics, to understand
13:44
I see. Sorry.
@Thorgott's brain is one sheet of a 2-sheeted paraboloid
Of course it is just my taste to do a calculus of variations style proof, it seems most natural to me personally. I don't know a reference. There are probably references that do this using hyperbolic geometry, but I do not know much about hyperbolic geometry.
Which should work for any surface without boundary by the uniformization theorem, which asserts that by (pointwise) scaling the metric you can make it hyperbolic.
Oh, my bad, of course this argument doesn't work. Take a punctured hyprebolic surface. Then the ends look like Gabriel's horn. So the length of the curve goes to 0 as you slide along the cusp.
Even constant curvature -1 isn't sufficient, seems like you need flatness or something on these kinds of ends. Seems like something you can do by hand. Whatever!
14:09
does every closed subset of affine space in the Zariski topology only possess finitely many connected components in the Zariski topology?
affirmative over algebraically closed fields
14:24
@Thorgott Awful
The answer is of course
If not you'd have an infinite chain of closed subsets
Varieties are always Noetherian
It doesn't matter if your base field is not alg closed you can basechange
I recently saw primary decomposition section in A&D. Is this primary decomposition is what I know in linear algebra?
Closely related
(I found this notion worthless but I am very bad at algebra)
I too think it's a dead notion
It's geometrically appealing
But that's it
14:45
@MikeMiller I agree
@BalarkaSen ah ok, that's just Hilbert basis, right
ye
What is a theorem to Hilbert is a definition to Poincare
Hilbert Nullstellensatz: I(V(J)) = sqrt(J), Poincare's theorem of zeroes: Definition of a manifold
Hilbert basis theorem: R Noetherian, R[x] Noetherian; Poincare's basis theorem: Manifolds are finite dimensional
complete the dictionary @MikeMiller
I dont understand algebra so no
ok nice
@BalarkaSen what is "Poincare's theorem of zeroes"?
It is the analogue of Hilbert Nullstellensatz
Clearly
14:49
Poincare's definition of zeroes I should say
Poincare's basis definition
hi chat
hi Astyx
Indeed I never thought about isometries of R^n with different p norms, and although it seems very plausible that no such isometries exist, I also faceplanted trying to prove it @Mike
Yeah man
you need to use probabilistic methods
its surprisingly hard
15:01
this semester doesn't stop wrecking me. 2 oral exams on the same day ooff
15:23
:/
@BalarkaSen google still tells me nothing
Forget Google, he just means that regular level sets of smooth functions are smooth manifolds
That's what I get from the Nullstellensatz comparison
15:44
whats the analogy between that and the Nullstellensatz
regular level sets of regular functions are varieties?
16:10
turns out that a fiber bundle is compact if and only if base and fiber are compact
irregardless of being Hausdorff or not
very cool
Irregardless is the worst word
indeed
@Thorgott shouldn't this be easy?
it is easy if you have the right arguments
Try proving it
16:22
Ah I see my mistake, I was assuming $T_1$ for the base space
yeah
@EdwardEvans it's still used a lot irregardless
Is it true that if I cover a space with finitely many open sets then one of them must contain a closed set? It better be, right?
yes, complement of all but one of them
Oh of course
16:28
that's the trick
Makes sense. I wanted to take preimage of a point, but I don't have $T_1$, so I'll have to find another closed set instead
What does a vector bundle$\pi:E\to B$ such that no matter which finite open cover of $B$ I pick, $E$ is not locally trivial on a member of the cover even look like? I guess I could have something ugly over $(0,1)$ with more and more "twistiness" accumulating toward $0$ or something like that
Anyone fluent in random graphs here?
Ask your question
@AlessandroCodenotti What about a "möbius cone"?
I'm not sure what you mean
So like take a cone minus the origin
16:37
Ok my question concerns with the threshold for different properties. As we increase the number of nodes, the probability of edge formation decreases. But for properties like connectedness, wouldn't the low edge probability act in a opposite direction?
Wait no that wouldn't work
I feel I am confusing between expected value and probability but I keep getting myself confused.
My idea was to have a vector bundle that looks like the mobius strip on every circle, and you'd get something not locally trivial at the origin
No, it's garbage ignore me
@blueslue What's the context?
@Alessandro you can always pick some finite open cover such that the bundle is trivial over at least some members of that open cover, simply by appending finitely many open sets on which it is trivial to the cover
Wait, isn't a vector bundle locally trivial by definition?
16:45
every bundle is, yes
@Astyx just read all of this
I assume he meant "not trivial on any member of the cover"
Ok I'm dumber and dumber
yesterday and this morning were kind of busy- I am only confused with why you wrote $f = u/v h$ in the beginning, but assuming it's ok the rest makes sense.
aren't we all
16:47
It concerns with Erd\"os R\'enyi random graphs. For example, the threshold for property like "diameter two" to appear is $sqrt(2\frac{lnn}{n})$ where $n$ is the number of nodes. As we increase the number of nodes, the threshold gets pushed to left..that seems somewhat counterintuitive to me.

I understand the threshold is related to expected value. And if expected value goes with 0 for a certain probability then the probability of finding that property is zero. And at the threshold expected value of the property shift other way.. and hence the threshold.
@As
@Astyx
@BigSocks So $f\in (h)$ implies that there is an element $a\in k(x)[y]$ such that $f = ah$. You can write $a = u/v$ where $u\in k[x,y]$ and $v\in k[x]$
My question was very poorly phrased, here is an understandable version. What is an example of a bundle $\pi\colon E\to B$ such that all covers $B_i$ of $B$ with $\pi^{-1}(B_i)\simeq F\times B_i$ for all $i$, are infinite?
@Astyx ok this is assuming $f = uh, g = vh$ ? or did we drop that
We dropped it
oh ok
16:50
Yeah sorry my notations are terrible and I use the same letters for different things
what was $h$ in this case? the poly in the last step of our descending degree chain
don't worry, it's really not that bad
h is a polynomial in $k[x,y]$ that generate (f) + (g) in $k(x)[y]$ (which is a PID)
the reason we can take a polynomial is that polynomials in k[x] are "constants" of k(x)[y], in the sense that you can invert them, so $(fu) = (f)$ for any $u\in k[x]$
Are there non trivial bundles on $(0,1)$ ?
@Astyx no
at least not vector bundles
vector bundles over contractible spaces are trivial
Ok, you want something with a lot of torsion
right?
@Astyx and the $f$ and $g$ are the ones we said had to be in $p$ somehow right?
16:56
Possibly the hawaian earings with mobius rings?
@Thorgott in general they are homotopy eq. to the fiber I guess
I was thinking an infinite wedge of circles with a Möbius strip on each?
ah no, you can do that with a cover by 4
@Thorgott you can't have compact base space
@Thorgott isn't this what @Astyx said?
Roughly, the topology on the hawaian earring isn't the same AFAIK
16:57
fun fact, hawaiian earring, infinite wedge of circles, and hawaiian earring but done with circles of increasing radius are all distinct spaces
hawaiian earring isn't an infinite wedge of circles, it's coarser
I thought wedge of circles and reverse hawaian were the same
reverse earring isn't compact
infinite wedge of circles isn't compact either
@Thorgott o really. which sets does it miss
16:59
a neighborhood of the bad point in the Hawaiian earring necessarily contains all but finitely many of the circles
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