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17:00
Hmm - in Latin "norma" was used to indicate a sort of right-angle thing used by carpenters
@MattN. So normal it is boring?
@ChuckFernández Not sure
@JonasTeuwen No, why?
i cant check because my IP is from mexico
@ChuckFernández maybe use a vpn?
17:01
@OldJohn Perhaps because the normal vector is analogous to a mathematician.
o you know a good one?
@ChuckFernández Not any free ones - I have only used commercial ones
@OldJohn A carpenter's square?
@J.M. Yes, I think so
@J.M. from here
@OldJohn Man, that site is very convenient...
17:05
@J.M. Only found it today, but looks really useful
Huh, interesting: apparently, you can "multiply" out the primes, but you can't "sum" them...
@J.M. Adds to the mystery...
they are by nature multiplicative. they don't like being summed!
@J.M. hence the difficulties with things like Goldbach
(I guess)
@anon Hmm, right.
17:16
@OldJohn conjuncture? I feel dumb to not see the relation.
@N3buchadnezzar Yep
what does the $\pi$ mean in that question?
@N3buchadnezzar Proving anything about adding primes tends to be tough since primes are defined purely by multiplicative properties
(and the only thing connecting multiplying and adding amongst integers is the distributive law)
Did anyone manage to prove the problem i gave yesterday?
@ChuckFernández 3.1415...
dont recall so
17:22
prove that any number less than n! is the sum of at most n divisors of n!
distinct*
Do you guys listen to music while doing math (like reading a textbook)?
@ChuckFernández Yes - Bach
@OldJohn Yes is cool to listen to
Bach is a bit to epic for my taste, I need something with less organs and more violins.
@JonasTeuwen It deserves to be better known that Kaplansky classified rodent tumors: Kaplansky's Rat Theorem.
17:30
@ChuckFernández If you were referring to the question I linked to, it's product notation, just like $\sum$ for sums.
(Actually, the notation is modified slightly; it seems he's using it for "regularized" products.)
yes i was refering to that question
Vivaldi is good, Chopin to some extent and Grieg
yes
does anyone see how i can solve the problem?
that sound like music from the shire (LOTR)
17:37
@BillDubuque Wow! Cool!
@ChuckFernández Although I tend to listen more to keygen music :p
Whilst working that is
I changed my display name
wait what?
18:13
@ChuckFernández @Khromonkey
thats pretty cool
Feel free to use it as your (gr)avatar ;-)
Sorry to butt in, but can we quickly close and delete this question?
No need to apologize, we are all adults here.
18:19
@AlexBecker Almost done
@robjohn Unfortunately I can't help delete it. Since I'm not 20K yet, I'd have to wait 2 hrs.
@AlexBecker It only needs one more delete vote
Ah, it's done now!
Thanks to community
the time period to cast a delete vote was less than a minute, I didn't get a chance :(
"PS : Let's see how many downvotes i earn, before i get banned." sounds like a challenge.
18:22
@anon Sorry, we were too fast :-)
I wanted to invite her to the chat room first :-(
I like challenges.
@JasperLoy Which style manual carries your preference?
Or anybody else 8-).
The Chicago manual is pretty much the standard.
18:38
Hmm, I know, but I would like to hear the opinion of someone I consider having some authority on the matter.
Fair enough.
@JonasTeuwen I have no authority on anything that includes the word "style" :(
@OldJohn 8-).
@skullpatrol But thanks. Where is the bull?
@JonasTeuwen The bull has finished doing his thing ;-)
@skullpatrol There still is much to do.
18:41
@JonasTeuwen Indeed.
@robjohn Escher would be proud. Now go show 'em the steps!
The Escher museum in The Hague is a very nice place to visit if you are ever in The Netherlands
@BillDubuque Now I need to figure out how to line up the feet. With the half twist, the feet on the other side have the opposite orientation
19:00
@BillDubuque I just scaled it so that there are only 11 feet, and then when it comes back around, it looks right.
@skullpatrol Just follow the easy steps.
@robjohn It looks a bit "fake" near the right.
@JonasTeuwen fake in what way?
@robjohn Not real.
Not complex either.
19:05
@JonasTeuwen It is just the feet image mapped to the Möbius strip.
@robjohn Ah, it is the mobius strip that looks strange to me, but perhaps it is my monitor... seems to lack some depth.
There is the theory of the Mobius, a twist in the fabric of space where time becomes a loop. Time becomes a loop. Time becomes a loop. Time becomes a loop.
hi @Eugene
Hello.
@JonasTeuwen Hi bro. How are you doing?
19:09
@MattN. Fine. You?
@JonasTeuwen Good : ) Done about 7 hours today. Unfortunately, now I'm too lazy to do any more at the moment.
@MattN. Perfect.
@JonasTeuwen Didn't know I could do more than 4 hours. : )
@MattN. Yeah, it is quite cool! How did you actually manage to do those hours?
@JonasTeuwen I have something I really want that I might only be able to do if I pass. Also, if the 7 hours consist of FA then time flies. It's not too hard and it's fairly pleasant. Even though the notes are not optimally nice.
@JonasTeuwen Also, inverse and direct limits are quite cool.
19:12
@MattN. Good :-). (the notes seem quite okay but not perfect, I agree)
@JonasTeuwen I wonder why they try. These two don't seem to have optimal skill to write a book. There are better books out there.
@MattN. Hmm, well... 8-). They also have a Springer GTM.
What is a GTM?
I guess it just does not fit your learning style.
Springer Graduate Text in Mathematics.
@robjohn C'mon mean square, do the twist, c'mon mean square, let's do the twist ... we're gonnna twisty twisty twisty till we're a Mobius strip.
19:14
@JonasTeuwen Well you don't seem to like their book either. So I'm not the only one.
But I don't mind too much, I've put up with worse.
@MattN. Hah. Well... It is good but it has many drawbacks which could be easily repared.
For example, don't use theorems that are only introduced later on.
@BillDubuque Ooh... Play Twister on a Möbius strip.
@JonasTeuwen Yes, you don't say : )
@MattN. Well, I don't want to make any strong conclusions as it might be perfectly fine for somebody else.
@robjohn and with Chubby Checker singing
19:16
@JonasTeuwen I want the teddy to write my books. I want a functional analysis book.
@BillDubuque It seems to be good for knot theory, too.
In any case they are quite some experts and that makes the book good.
@MattN. I wonder if Teddy has any writer aspirations.
@JonasTeuwen Well let's not ask him. We should suggest it to him subconsciously so that he actually ends up writing some text books : )
@robjohn But seriously, I wonder what the mean square would look like were he twisted into a Mobius strip.
@MattN. You get the needles, I get the dolls.
@BillDubuque Mm... or projected onto a Klein's bottle.
19:19
But oh dear, graded rings seem to be boring.
I wonder if they are more interesting if put into the context of algebraic geometry.
SE would know. Maybe I should post a question.
I think I'll do that.
If I don't get any cool answers I'll skip the chapter.
@robjohn Alexander the Great had a great Gordian knot theory :-D
@MattN. Just study them. 8-).
Indeed, skipping chapters can be a "fatal mistake," as you would stamp on exam papers ;-)
Ok. : )
user19161
19:35
@JonasTeuwen Well, I have no authority on the matter. Remember I am only a lunatic, and my degree was in math, not language. Which style guide you use really depends on the publisher, the audience etc. For a great mathematician like you, just write the math and let the editor decide on the rest. But if you want me to recommend you English resources (not style manuals) which I can do, that is another matter.
@JasperLoy Sure. It is for my thesis.
user19161
@JonasTeuwen Well, one thing you have to decide is whether you should use AmE or BrE. They really differ in spelling and punctuation. Even within one variety there are variations. If it is for your thesis, you should ask the people there what should be used.
@JasperLoy It is my thesis, not theirs. I make the choice.
user19161
@JonasTeuwen I see. Hmm OK. Then my personal answer to you as a bro is, use whatever you like, but just get the spelling and punctuation right and be consistent.
Of course, I would do that. That is the minimal requirement.
user19161
19:40
@JonasTeuwen Hmm, then that seems good enough, really.
I want to know if I need to have white space between paragraphs as I would like to have that instead of indents.
Where is this guy getting such odd-looking questions from - like this one?
@JasperLoy No.
user19161
@JonasTeuwen Again, such matters are matters of convention which you should ask the university. But if you said it is your thesis and hence your choice, then it is your choice really.
@OldJohn From his brain... scary eh?
@JasperLoy Yes. I was asking about your preference.
@JasperLoy If they enforce strange rules upon my thesis, they can climb up the tree.
user19161
19:43
@JonasTeuwen My preference? Hmm, if I were to submit a thesis, I would do what I said above.
@JonasTeuwen Nah - I think he has a book of IMO-type questions that he brings out every day or two
@OldJohn That is also possible.
@JasperLoy If you had the choice?
user19161
@JonasTeuwen Hmm, then I would need to think about that. I am not sure which I prefer at the moment. But one thing I like about indents is that they save vertical space. I like my writing to look compact.
@JasperLoy Oh, right. I forgot you liked phonebooks.
user19161
@JonasTeuwen Yeah. If I were to do mathematical research one day, I might really like to do geometric measure theory.
19:46
8-).
I seem to have hit the maximal number of questions per month limit.
user19161
Also, maybe fourier analysis or riemannian geometry.
I don't think I should be banned from asking questions.
So do I keep asking with an unregistered account, or what?
user19161
@MattN. It's just a SE policy.
@HenryT.Horton Have you finished playing with the gun I left you?
19:48
But creating a new email address is a pain in the neck.
@MattN. I can ask a question for you!
user19161
@MattN. Maybe you can, but why do you need to ask so many questions per day?
Hehehehe
user19161
@MattN. A suspended user created over a hundred accounts.
@JasperLoy What an honestly stupid question.
@PeterTamaroff Hey! You are so lovely!! Thank you so much!
@JasperLoy So I can just do that?
I think the majority of people on SE think my questions are good enough to not be banned.
user19161
19:49
@MattN. I am not sure if that is against the SE policy. This user has been blacklisted of course.
@MattN. Ask a moderator? Perhaps they can override?
@JonasTeuwen Good idea. Will wait for J.M. : )
@JasperLoy Makoto?
user19161
@jonas So will your thesis be mostly fourier analysis?
Bill is here.
19:50
You guys are all so nice : )
5
user19161
@PeterTamaroff No, Nortonn S on ELU. That guy is evil, beware of him.
@JasperLoy Hmm. Also physics and some philosophy.
And other math as well.
user19161
@JonasTeuwen Philosophy of what?
Mathematics/Physics.
user19161
@JonasTeuwen Do you know about the Kakeya problem?
19:51
@JasperLoy Yes.
Bourgain. My love.
user19161
@JonasTeuwen You are so learned!
@JasperLoy Well, no.
user19161
@JonasTeuwen How often do you check your email?
@MattN. As you may know, I was strongly opposed to the question limits. But Willie went ahead an implemented it anyway. As it turns out we don't even need it, since I was able to work with MK. Probably many other users will hit the limit too. If enough folks complain then maybe it will be removed.
@JasperLoy A couple of times per day usually.
@BillDubuque Can there not be made exceptions on a per user basis?
user19161
19:54
@JonasTeuwen Hmm OK. If I have internet connection I will check at least once a day too.
@JasperLoy I always have an internet connection in this country.
user19161
@JonasTeuwen Yeah I remember you downloaded TL2012 in 5 min!
@JasperLoy Oh, that is in the university.
@BillDubuque Thank you for telling me this. The problem is, I really don't want to be banned right now because I'm intensely self-studying. Is there a way to have the limit overridden by one of you moderators? If not, what will you do to me if I create a second account and ask another question?
Elsewhere it is ~40Mbps or slower.
Between 10 and 40Mbps and mobile 2Mbps.
@MattN. If you will be banned, I am sure it will be quickly lifted as that is not the intention of the enforcement to ban people that ask good questions.
19:56
@MattN. I don't see any functionality in the moderator tools for doing that. This is exactly why I was opposed to it.
user19161
When I download stuff the rate is usually 300 kB/s.
@BillDubuque Ok. And are you aware of cases where a user hit the limit, created a second account to ask another question and subsequently got banned from the site? I really don't want this to happen, I adore SE and the community.
@MattN. I would be pissed off if they ban you for that 8-).
user19161
@MattN. If you use another email I am sure you can do that. Then eventually you can ask a mod to merge the two accounts. I think so.
@JonasTeuwen Well judging from my profile the last 19 were good and number 20 was stupid. That's because I had a short circuit there. I really wanted to delete it later but it already had an answer.
19:58
@MattN. No problem.
@JasperLoy But the question is: will they ban me if I do that.
I need to get a drink. See you guys.
@MattN. I think the only solution is to try to rally some community support to remove the limits. We never needed them before, and we don't now.
What's the maximum monthly question limit?
user19161
@MattN. I don't think they will ban you for that. This is a genuine case. Just talk to a mod if the system does anything auto.
19:59
@JonasTeuwen Later, enjoy!
@BillDubuque I will do that. I didn't say I wasn't going to. I didn't agree with the thread on meta and I down voted it. But for now, I need a quick fix.
user19161
@peter Have you figured out how to solve the last problem you asked me?
@MattN. I think it is important that other users realize that valued community members are already bumping up against the limit.
@BillDubuque Yes. I was thinking about writing a comment but then I didn't because all the answers in the thread seemed to agree that the limit is needed!
@MattN. I would advise starting a new thread. The old one has far too much baggage from the MK affair.
user19161
20:02
I did not expect the MK affair to last so long.
MK had an affair?
@JasperLoy Yeah. Borderline moronic. I knew the solution. I just wanted to know it there was anything interesting to say about it.
@JasperLoy I don't think anyone did. It was a very unusual event in the history of MSE - hopefully one that won't ever repeat. There was a confluence of too many difficult issues. Usually we only have to deal with one big issue at a time - not a handful.
user19161
@PeterTamaroff And your solution is just using the fact that the inverse of an open set is open as the definition of continuity right?
@BillDubuque Done.
Anyone who supports this, feel free to upvote.
20:07
@MattN. Upvoted
I need you.
@OldJohn Thank you!
@JasperLoy Actually my definition is that $f:X\to Y$ is continuous if for every neighborhood $N$ of $f(a)$ in $Y$, $f^{-1}(N)$ is a nbhd of $a$. I have the open sets characterization as a theorem.
user19161
@PeterTamaroff Sure, but just use what I just said and you get the proof immediately.
@MattN. Upvoted. There will probably be some opposition, so prepare some good replies.
The definition is such so that $f:(X,d)\to (Y,d')$ is continuous $\iff$ $f:(X,\mathfrak I)\to (Y,\mathfrak I')$ is continuous.
20:08
@BillDubuque Thank you! I don't want this turned into an argument.
Upvoted :-D
5 upvotes already, thank you!
@JasperLoy Now I'm reading and taking notes about subspaces, relatively open/nbhds/closed sets.
user19161
@PeterTamaroff By the way, the open sets characterisation I was referring to is global, not local ie no reference to a specific point a, just open sets in general.
And the relative topology induced by the space on a subspace.
user19161
20:09
@PeterTamaroff Well, I told you I hated that Mendelson book didn't I? :-)
@JasperLoy I have the global open set characterization as a theorem.
What-ever dude.
@JasperLoy Yes, I understand what you mean.
user19161
@PeterTamaroff Good, so no problem with the proof right?
@MattN. The SE affiliate wrote in the original thread that they prefer not to have site-dependent limits. I don't know if they'll budge on that. But I don't think we're big enough yet that we need any limits.
@JasperLoy Yes. I didn't even write it out.
Just sketched some glyphs.
user19161
@PeterTamaroff Good, you are on your way to winning the Fields medal.
20:12
@JasperLoy ¬¬
user19161
@PeterTamaroff I can't make it in time for the medal I think, but I would like to solve at least one millennium problem. :-)
@JasperLoy How many are there left?
user19161
@PeterTamaroff Six, I think. Though the Perelman dude might demolish all of them, we never know...
@JasperLoy I admire that guy.
@BillDubuque I agree. I added another thought on the matter to my meta post.
20:15
@JasperLoy Perelman. Dude.
man, don't take it that easy
Hi @Ilya : )
@MattN. Guten abend
@Ilya Bonne nuit : )
user19161
@Ilya You know, I have great difficulty understanding your words. :-)
Добрый вечер, ребята. Сегодня я расскажу вас сказку
user19161
20:17
By the way, have you gotten your summer shorts @ilya?
yes
user19161
Are they pink?
white
user19161
Ah, very good. White is nice too.
@Ilya I'll have to learn Russian at some point. But first I need to get better at Japanese and Korean.
user19161
20:18
Black is the most boring colour. Use it sparingly.
user19161
@MattN. You are learning J and K for fun?
@JasperLoy Sure. Though K is on level zero. I can only say like two words or so. : ) But soon...!
@Ilya Haha, but no one will understand : D
user19161
@MattN. Just to let you know since you are interested in J and K, you can watch hundreds of J and K dramas on mysoju.com.
@JasperLoy Thanks, I know that : )
20:21
I managed to learn enough Russian to get around Moscow - and have trivial conversations
@MattN. Сел Малыш на Карлсона
@JasperLoy I prefer anime, though.
@Ilya Hm... I give up. : )
@Ilya so you want to tell us a story?
включил Карлсон свой пропеллер
user19161
Now I will have to use google translate to divine ilya's secret messages...
20:24
"Carlson included a propeller"
user19161
@old Do you remember your main algebra textbook as an undergrad?
(I will force to learn the best language ever) - my thoughts
I can read them too.
@JasperLoy Fraleigh and Herstein were the main ones, I think
user19161
@OldJohn Ah, not my type.
20:27
@JasperLoy if I need any algebra these days I use Hungerford (about the only one I have now)
@JasperLoy Let's hear your type then. : )
user19161
@OldJohn @matt I really have a big problem with using ones which define rings without 1. Later on, many rings require 1 but they forget to include it, and I get confused over which theorems require 1 and which do not. So now I just use books which define them with 1.
But now you didn't say who.
@JasperLoy Yep - for number theory they always need a 1 - I hate those without
Atiyah-MacDonald?
user19161
20:29
Erm, I think I will use Cohn for self study.
user19161
Cohn's Classic Algebra, Basic Algebra, Further Algebra.
user19161
The three volumes which are the Algebra Bible to me.
@JasperLoy Ok. I have that, too (Basic). Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to read much of it.
@JasperLoy Too many authors called Cohn or Cohen - gets confusing
user19161
@MattN. They are very expensive. I got the cheap international editions.
user19161
20:31
The first is linear algebra and basic stuff. The second is mostly commutative stuff. The final is mostly noncommutative stuff.
@JasperLoy I afforded myself the yellow Springer hard cover. Wasn't cheap. Just checked: 56 GBP! Still has the sticker on it.
@MattN. Your in UK?
user19161
@MattN. Some advice which may be helpful. I usually find the normal editions cheapest on one of the Amazons and the international editions cheapest on abebooks.com
@JasperLoy Good to know. Perhaps once I have more time I can do Basic and then dabble in non-commutative stuff.
@OldJohn No but was : )
@MattN. OK
20:33
@OldJohn You almost sounded shocked.
@JasperLoy I don't know what these editions or their respective differences are. Are they not all the same book?
@OldJohn If my English is a give-away, I could still be an immigrant, no? : )
user19161
@MattN. Well, normal editions can be paperback or hardback. International editions are usually sold in certain countries only for students who cannot afford them. Sometimes shipping from these countries is still cheaper than buying the normal from the same country.
@JasperLoy Interesting. I didn't know that.
@MattN. Not at all - I just had an image in my mind you were on the other side of the pond :)
user19161
@OldJohn You know where I am. :-)
@JasperLoy Indeed
user19161
20:37
@OldJohn But you might forget again by tomorrow. :-)
@OldJohn I am. : ) Central Europe. Does that match the mental image you had?
@JasperLoy I forget lots of things - especially ones I don't think are important :P
@MattN. Maybe!
Hi all
wheeeee
user19161
@t.b. Matt will be happy to see you!
20:38
@t.b. MWAH
@MattN. blushes :)
@t.b. hi
so, what's up?
hi, Jasper, skull and everyone else
Well, I did some FA today, I'm fairly fast, but not as fast as I need to be. Then I'd planned to do some CA tonight but I got tired so I entered here.
@t.b. What about you?
Ah yes, and then the most interesting thing in terms of SE that happened to me today way that I hit the 50 per month limit and subsequently opened a meta thread to remove the limit.
Of course inverse limits and direct limits are far more interesting than that.
@MattN. Ah, I didn't have a very productive day. Will have to cut down my presence here again.
20:41
@t.b. How did you like the George Bergman write up?
@skullpatrol I didn't read it. I couldn't care less about this nonsense, to be honest.
@t.b. Ok. I suspected something like that. But as long as it's just SE...
Or are you doing HE again?
all the time.
Grrr. Didn't realise.
sure
20:44
I see.
@t.b. Have you ever met George Bergman?
@skullpatrol No.
Not my field. Know his name, of course.
Is he well known?
Sure, it's hard to be a retired retired prof from Berkley and not be known in certain circles.
He's a rather well-known ring theorist.
Think I'm going to bed.
Good night everyone!
20:52
Good night
@MattN. g'night
@t.b. From what I could find out on the web he made a lot of discoveries when he was young; and he wrote that article very well in a amazingly short time. I think he was the PhD adviser for Arturo, who by the way is following your lead and taking time off.
@t.b. hi, how are you?
@skullpatrol Well, yes, and Arturo deserves his time off and so does Brian
@Ilya Hi Ilya. Okay. Not perfect but I'm still alive. Lots of kerfuffles.
@t.b. And so do you :-D
20:58
@t.b. em, what do you mean?
but now I am not sure I have time for this
@t.b. We here greatly appreciate all your time and efforts, thank you.

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