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14:24
in Constructive Feedback, 48 secs ago, by Shaun
Would someone confirm my answer below, please? I'm having second thoughts on how I show the order of $xy^{-1}$ divides $m$.
1
A: Question on proofs for order of elements in a non-abelian group

ShaunSee my comments above for 1 and 2. As for 3, I will use the one-step subgroup test. Fix $m\in\Bbb N$. Since $e\in H$, ${\rm ord}(e)=1$ and $1\mid m$, we have $e\in Q_m$. Thus $Q_m$ is nonempty. By definition, $Q_m=\{\color{red}{x\in H}\; :\; {\rm ord}(x)\mid m\},$ so we have $Q_m\subseteq H$. Let...

14:38
Where is mathguy?
$o(x)|m$ and $o(y)|m$, hence $\operatorname{lcm}(o(x),o(y))|m$. $(xy^{-1})^{\operatorname{lcm}(o(x),o(y))}=x^{\operatorname{lcm}(o(x),o(y))}(y^{\operatorname{lcm}(o(x),o(y))})^{-1}$ since the group is abelian. $o(x)$ and $o(y)$ respectively divide $\operatorname{lcm}(o(x),o(y))$, so $x^{\operatorname{lcm}(o(x),o(y)}=1=y^{\operatorname{lcm}(o(x),o(y)}$. Thus, $o(xy^{-1})|\operatorname{lcm}(o(x),o(y))|m$.
you're missing a } on the exponent of $x$ and $y$
nise
knise
14:41
*nice
phew
omg thanks guys, I didn't know how to spell nice
BOOOOOOOOM
british person owned
14:42
Yoo r belcom
Helkome
with facts and logic
Hi @Thorgott btw
Is ma plusure
phackts and lugik
Na oone greeted me
14:42
noooooooo
mah Comtupar Engynar
Kalkulus
I was a couple seconds to late to edit a missing bracket in
wth is happening to this chat
@Astyx we are talcing
14:43
idk
and hi
kulukus
Comtupar Engynar invaded
hyyy
@EdwardEvans destroyed by facts and logic AGAIN
Mathgematiks
fucking hell you wrote that already
14:43
metaceieans
I like numba thoory
Someone is missing in this room today
Is it your alt account?
I have only one account btw
I don't know why you people say that I have a second account
14:46
@EdwardEvans are you comtupar engynar?
why are you writing like that
Fun, actually!
He is mispelting
The scerendipty of gobbledygooky words is fun.
I'm feeling sooooo cold!
Even Hoodies aren't warming well....
Probably need to take out overcoat.
Thank you, @Thorgott :)
14:59
@RewCie are you a full time poet?
Yes
That's fInE
GiVe Me SoMe MoRe PoEtRy
Name is enough
P vs NP
15:04
25 messages deleted
I had told geocalc a joke I want to say it again. Can I?
Where was politics actually?
Why did the mathematician name his dog cauchy?
Because he didn't like to name it X AE D-278
Because he left a residue in every pole
Lol
Btw he wasn't elon musk
NoW sTaR iT fAsT bOyS
15:11
wow ignoring them removed a LOT of messages
25
Ya sometimes you should ignore people.
Ya, just as everyone ignores me here.
"Weak people take revenge, strong people forgive, and intelligent people ignore."-albert Einstein
@RewCie no worry, I would never ignore you
what's a topological space $X$ such that every continuous map $\mathbb{R}\rightarrow X$ is constant, but $X$ is not totally disconnected
Assume Topological space be a function of $f: \mathbb R \rightarrow X$
@Thorgott R with the finite/countable complement topology
cofinite topology is path connected
Yeah I meant to just so countable complement
Was being sloppy and not remembering the argument
15:21
such that for every $x \in \mathbb R, $ $f(x) = \vec \mu$ which is same for all $X$
My room got first compliment!
I'm happyez! :-)
Com and join here:

 Computer Science noob tries to get be

Computer Science Engineering Discussions and Software/Hardware...
@AlessandroCodenotti Can you kick people?
good morning
Morning :-)
So apparently, the pointwise limit (in a metric space) of any sequence of measurable function with separable image is measurable with separable image
Ah sorry, in the preceding it should be a Banach space, not a metric space. Anyways, since simple functions have a finite (i.e. separable) image, this immediately implies that any borel-measurable function (with values in R^d) has a separable image, right?
@feynhat Only temporarily, I don't remember for how long or how it works exactly
15:33
It first kicks them for 30 second, then 1 min, 2 min, 5 min, 15 min, 30 min, 1 hour, 2 hours only
Professor said that if a is a root of x^6+3\in Q[x], then Q(a)/Q is Galois. Is this true?
I found that \sqrt[6]{3}e^{(2k+1)/6\pi i} where $k = 0,1,...,5$ are roots of them
But if k = 1 then It seems that x^6+3 does not split on Q(a)
a = \sqrt[6]{3}e^{3/6\pi i}
Ok, that's connected cause any two open sets intersect by uncountability. The only convergent sequences in that space are eventually constant ones (otherwise there are infinitely many elements not equal to the limit and their complement is an open neighborhood of the limit that the sequence isn't eventually in).
Assume $f$ is not constant in any neighborhood of a point $x$. Then there is a sequence $x_n->x$ such that $f(x_n)\neq f(x)$ for all $n$, contradiction to continuity. So $f$ is locally constant, hence constant.
ok, thanks
If two 2-manifolds M=N are diffeomorphic to $\Bbb R^2$ (equivalent metrics) what can be said about $M \times N?$
I feel like I've hit a new record for ugly topology questions asked in the span of 24 hours
$M \times N$ will be a 4-manifold. But I'm hesitant to say that it will related in any way to $\Bbb R^4$
15:45
if $M\cong M^{\prime}$ and $N\cong N^{\prime}$, then $M\times N\cong M^{\prime}\times N^{\prime}$
oh sorry you told me that before
@Thorgott maybe your own record, but I'm sure @AlessandroCodenotti asks himself more of those on any day
poor him
I feel you though, all I'm doing atm is asking "is XY measurable??"
@Thorgott I don't like this argument, why can you talk about continuity sequentially here
I guess your point is composite of continuous maps is continuous
I would probably have argued by observing that $f$ has countable image because $\Bbb R$ is separable ($f^{-1}(f(\Bbb Q))$ is a closed set containing $\Bbb Q$, hence $\Bbb R$) and then observing that a countable subset of $\Bbb R_{cc}$ is discrete, so $f$ must be constant
15:58
@user2103480 Nah I only work with Polish spaces, no ugly stuff
continuity always implies sequential continuity
@AlessandroCodenotti nice
reasonable assumptions gang gang
but I prefer your argument
looking at $f^{-1}(f(\mathbb{Q}))$ is nice
lmao, someone I know apparently managed to convince a prof at our uni to publish the following exercise sheet
@user2103480 Well actually I look at Polish groups, but an object associated to them that I care about is often nonmetrizable so rip anyway
You people are speaking which language? I'm unable to understand a word of it.
16:04
it's german, but what it actually says doesn't matter
@AlessandroCodenotti I still find it nice that you found a cool subject in the intersection of general topology, descriptive set theory and group theory
@RewCie we're inventing terms on the fly
Just gotta say smart things like hydroxychloroquine or remdesivir, like a very very smart individual - maybe the smartest ever - would
locostatic epigenetics
isn't there anyone answer my question
?
16:19
@TedShifrin I was wondering, is it somehow true that the unit tangent field to the Hopf fibration doesn't occur as a magnetic field? I don't know any physics, but in the Maxwell stuff, the magnetic field $\mathbf{B}$ is a 2-form (thought as a vector under musical isomorphism) which has a "vector potential", i.e., $\mathbf{B} = \text{curl}\, \mathbf{A}$ where $\mathbf{A}$ is a 1-form (again thought as a vector).
Then $\int_{S^3} \mathbf{A} \wedge d\mathbf{A}$ computes the linking number. Do you know if this could be zero?
it feels like magnetic lines shouldn't link but i dont know how to explain that
I guess I'm also having trouble with more basic things. If $f : S^3 \to S^2$ is the Hopf map I would like to study if the unit tangent field to the fibers of $f$ gives rise to the vector field $\mathbf{B}$. Is this the same question as asking if $\mathbf{B}$, as a 2-form under the musical isom, the same as $f^* \text{vol}_{S^2}$? I guess
Because transverse to the fibers, sort of.
@Thorgott Yeah I recognized after a moment, it's just the statement that composite of continuous is continuous
I just don't like to think about sequences in stupid spaces
16:35
But then I suppose there is no obstruction because any zero divergence field occurs as a magnetic field. I'd like to know what arrangement of magnets give rise to the Hopf fibration, then.
Statements about metric spaces that are topological in nature extend to metrizable spaces, don't they? For example, any subset of a separable metric space is separable, and I'd guess this extends to subsets of separable metrizable spaces
Yes
More or less tautologically
Since the topology is unchanged
ok thx
just be careful about completeness because thats not a topological property
that always annoyed me
(this is why people use uniform structures)
I don't like that statement
16:38
what's a uniform structure?
A topological property should be something stated in the language of topological spaces, and completeness is not a property with a truth-value you assign to a topospace
But rather to a metric space
The natural topological property is completely metrizable
@MikeMiller that would've been my next question
@MikeMiller yeah
I actually think it's very hard to come up with properties of topological spaces that are not topological properties
thats fair but i mean i think you run into real issues because homeomorphic metric spaces with one of them being complete doesnt imply the other one is
im trying to come up with a good example lets see
16:40
A good example of a real issue you mean
just goes to show that continuous maps aren't the right choice of morphism in the category of metric spaces
@Thorgott shush
Algebra brain
2
Go tell Banach space theorists that they should only study isometric Banach spaces because short maps are the right morphism in that category
@MikeMiller in my functional analysis class last semester I was actually quite confused what the right notion of morphism should be, since both linear homeomorphisms and linear isometries came up
16:46
Algebra brain
2
You use whatever is interesting at the moment
short maps are good, because they make the unit ball functor reflect isos
Yeah, no use putting or losing structure where it isn't needed
Nobody cares about the unit ball functor, what is wrong with your brain
@MikeMiller Algebra brain
2
It's a mild amusement that Banach spaces with short maps have free Banach spaces (corresp to forgetful map to unit ball)
16:48
it's representable by R
clearly you care about R
Hello people
I cannot formulate my example but here is what I had in mind. Suppose $X$ is a noncompact metric space and I want lots of proper function on it; I embed $X$ inside some complete metric space $Y$ as an open subspace and take a point $\infty$ on the frotiner of $X \subset Y$, and look at $1/d(x, \infty) : X \to \Bbb R$
@MikeMiller how exactly is that meant
@AlessandroCodenotti Know your powers man.
Taking a set X and forming first the linear combinations, then taking the completion?
16:49
This prescription gives lots of proper functions but I don't know how to do this stuff without metric
You have to tell me the metric to define the completion
Sorry if bad example
@feynhat I never needed to use them luckily
Also boundedness and total boundedness are metric properties, not topological ones
But the free Banach space on a set $X$ is $\ell^\infty(X)$ (in the category of short maps with forgetful map the unit ball as a set)
Fun fact: for a metrizable space being separable is equivalent to admitting a totally bounded metric
16:50
Or something like this
Maybe I mean $\ell^1$
I don't really care
algebra brain
2
"free banach space" jesus dude
Exactly
[Reading Thorgott talk about the geometry of Banach spaces]
@MikeMiller ah shoot true
I'll just go ahead and invent a metric using X as an orthogonal basis
@MikeMiller lmao
And since we're all about the ugly stuff, I'm talking hamel basis
Is there a simply connected space which is not CW?
are CW always deloopable?
17:00
@feynhat Bruh
Why would every simply connected space be CW
Take like the 2-dim version of the Hawaiian earrings eg
Or the cone on the Cantor set
oh yeah. Right. bunch of S^2's with decreasing radii
Every CW cpx is locally contractible
Fuck it take Hatcher Ex 0.6's picture
@MikeMiller do you know that book by heart wtf
Yes he does.
I just assigned that exercise lol
17:03
every mathematician should memorize all of Hatcher once in a while
I can give examples of contractible spaces which does not have homotopy type of a CW complex but why will I, is the point.
Obviously such things exist
Because there's no reason for it not to
brilliant
Let $U$ be an open subset of some Euclidean space. I want to argue there exist an unbounded real-valued $C^1$-function on $U$. $x\mapsto1/d(x,\partial U)$ works continuously, but I believe it's generally not $C^1$. How do I get something smooth? Visually, it's obviously possible.
d(x, del U) is smooth away from del U right
and inverse of nonzero smooth function is smooth
2d Hawaiian earring because is a nice counter example because it is semi locally simply connected but not CW.
take $U$ to be the open set above the graph of the absolute value function, then $d((y,0),\partial U)=|y|/\sqrt{2}$
unless you mean like outside a neighborhood of by away from
17:16
@Thorgott maybe you can integrate in a smart way, if it's a star domain
im not gonna think about your ctrex but there is a smooth function on R^n vanishing on any closed set
just take that if d doesnt work
this is an exercise in Guillemin Pollack so you should do it
e^-x^2 something something
If you just want unbounded and not proper just take y in the boundary and do 1/d(x, y) lol
I... hadn't thought of that
algebra brain
2
17:22
you still might not get smoothness in a neighborhood of y
but take y to be in the interior of the complement
That's not unbounded on U
what
what crap
wait no
You absolutely do get smoothness in a nbhd of y in R^n, sqrt(x_1^2 + ... + x_n^2) is smooth away from 0
Just not at y
But who cares about y
smoothness on an nbhd of y makes no sense
smoothness of 1/x at 0 lmao
17:24
youre right
anyway but d(x, A) probably isnt smooth away from A for an arbitrary closed set of R^n but not because of what you told me. its only loc. lipschitz but idk example
@BalarkaSen corollary of whitney ez
@MikeMiller What is a 'Graduate Course'?
(serious question)
a course for graduate students?
17:31
A course whose primary audience is graduate students?
sniped
I see.
(Take $A = \partial [0, 1]^2$, consider distance to $A$. Not smooth)
Is there a simple argument that the open Mobius strip cannot be properly embedded in $\Bbb R^3$? No smooth stuff allowed no Alexander duality allowed
Guess not because one point compactifying makes it a problem about embedding RP^2 in S^3
Which is the same as RP^2 in R^3
Which is hard
what is smooth stuff?
differential topology i guess
17:42
that's fundamentally the same as what I gave, no
one corner of the square looks like the corner of the graph of the absolute value function
oh maybe i wasn't following yeah
you get problem at corners
but then the problem doesnt go away outside an nbhd of the square either it persists along the diagonals
so i was confused
ok, I'm gonna ask a very silly question
how do I argue the boundary of an open subset of Euclidean space can't be a singleton
it can be take R^2 - 0
wait I'm fucking stupid
jfc
nah top boundary is confusing as shit
Q in R has bd R
wild
17:55
ok, but say I have two disjoint non-empty open sets
I can find two distinct points, each belonging to the boundary of one of those sets respectively, right
do you need this
youre saying theres no example of open sets U, V of R^n, with U and V disjoint such that bd U = bd V = {x}?
ye
to both
take (-infty, 0) and (0, infty)
doesnt happen for n > 1
because R^n \ x connected
@MikeMiller he's giving you content man why do you want him to stop
topology 101 homework problems
list em down quick
we're in the fundamental group part of my course now i dont ever need to go back to this junk
18:00
final exam
and what if one of your student decides to do a project on lakes of wada
Fs in chats
someone would have to tell them about it first
i have a subliminal message written on the RP2 thing
youre screwed
Oof
Bet nobody read that
@Thorgott How is this not smooth though?
lmao yeah
18:03
whatever, smoothness is a spook
I'm thinking about BOUNDARIES now
lol
cant stop laughing
ah, I get it, if $\partial U=\{x\}$, then $U$ is clopen in $\mathbb{R}^n\setminus\{x\}$, hence equal thereto
so that's literally the only example
I have a calculus question
nvm
If $\Bbb R^1$ has a change of coordinates $x \mapsto e^x$ then define the manifold $\Bbb G^1$ to be the manifold with new coordinates $u=e^x.$ What is the product manifold $\Bbb G^1 \times \Bbb G^1$?
18:23
(0,\infty)^2
yes that's correct!
but where do you define the origin? (0,0) or (1,1)
whats origin
the origin lol
it's the point of reference
the origin of R^2 is (0,0) don't you agree?
the Wolverine movie?
18:27
I can't
I've never seen the Wolverine movie actually.
rid yourself of the shackles of origin normativity
henceforth, all spaces shall be affine
but suppose one wishes to furnish the space with a metric
then it matters where the origin is
@geocalc33 No, it doesn't
So I've calculated the metric in $(u,v)$ coordinates
metrics don't care or know about origins
18:32
with origin (0,0)
@TobiasKildetoft so I can define the origin to be (1,1) if I so choose?
anyway the metric I got in $u-v$ was of course $ds^2=\frac{1}{u^2}du^2 + \frac{1}{v^2}dv^2$
which actually reminded me of the hyperbolic metric actually
but I digress.
okay figured it all out. (1,1) has to be the origin because, (0,0) is not even included in the manifold
derp.
I think the origin should be (\infty,\infty)
@geocalc33 What does "origin" even mean for a manifold?
it's the reference point
or so I've been told
reference for what?
so you can purposely pick the origin to simplify the mathematics
any origin will work, but oftentimes it's easier to choose a convienient one
18:47
it's probably more convenient to work with a probabilistic origin
you bring up a good point. maybe for some problems yes
@Thorgott Yes but if you want them in the symmetric difference of the boundaries then no
Ah but that's obvious, $\Bbb R^2$ minus a line
I was thinking about lakes of Wada, but there's no need for such weird examples here
yeah
19:45
Suppose $V \subseteq k^n$ is an algebraic irreducible set. We have that the coordinate ring of $V$, $\Gamma(V)$ is a finite dimensional vector space over $k$. I want to show that $dim(V) = 0$. I was thinking that if I can show that $\operatorname{trdeg}(k(X)/k) = 0$, where $k(X)$ is the fraction field $\Gamma(X)$, then I am done. For this I have to show that for any $a/b \in k(X)$, it satisfies some polynomial in $k[X]$. Maybe I have to use that it is a finite dimensional vector space somehow.
It's not clear to me as to how
yes, you surely need to use finite dimensionality, since that it the only assumption you have that matters
Yeah but the way that I am proceeding, I don't seem to find a way to use finite dimensionality
And the hint in the question suggests that I need to specifically use the fact that $V$ is irreducible. The only way I could think of was transcendence degree, because I don't see anything apparent in the Krull dimension way of defining dimension which would use irreducibility
20:05
are star-shaped sets simply connected?
They are contractible
Trying to prove that a $R$ is a Prüfer domain if and only if any overring of $R$ is integrally closed. Not sure how to start.
ah, of course
if $\mathcal A$ is a $\sigma$-algebra over $\Omega$ is $\sigma(\{\Omega\})=\{\emptyset,\Omega\} $ or $ \mathcal P (\Omega)$ ?
What do you think?
20:19
$\{\emptyset,\Omega\}$
:) ?
because it's the smallest one containing it?
yeah that's right
yeah I was just confused for a lil bit
because it's the same one as if you feed the empty set
so just needed to make sure
Piggy backing off of my previous question...Consider $\Bbb R^n$ with coordinates $\eta=(x^1,...,x^n).$ Another manifold $\zeta^n$ has coordinates $\Psi=(e^{x^1},...,e^{x^n}).$ And it's clear that $\Bbb R^n \cong \zeta^n$
now $\Bbb R^n$ can be identified with $\Bbb C^{n-2}.$
what can $\zeta^n$ be identified with? Still $\Bbb C^{n-2}$?
20:31
@SayanChattopadhyay Ahh, right. You need to use that since it is irreducible, the coordinate algebra is an integral domain. So it is a domain which is finite dimensional over a field.
sorry I meant $\Bbb C$ can be identified with $\Bbb R^2$
by $(a+bi)\mapsto (a,b)$
Yeah @TobiasKildetoft, any hint as to what I might do next?
@SayanChattopadhyay Then you apply the well-known result that a finite dimensional domain is itself a field
20:52
Anyone know how to show that any overring of a Prufer domain is an intersection of localizations of that ring?
21:06
@Thorgott hard to determine the direction to $(0,0)$ from there...
or $(1,1)$
hmm... perhaps not, using that metric.
@TobiasKildetoft Right yes. So the $\Gamma(X)$ is a field, and its a finite dimensional vector space of $k$. So it is a finite field extension, hence algebraic. But all throughout we have had the assumption that $k$ is algebraically closed. So then does this imply $\Gamma(X) = k$?
I have a feeling I am being amazingly stupid
21:22
direction is an archaic concept, we shall abolish it
22:10
What is this? $w=(e^a+ie^b)$
for $a,b \in \Bbb R$
guess it's a complex number
22:30
what's the weakest condition for singletons to be measurable in the borel sigma-algebra? hausdorffness?
Ah yeah should be at the least, since closed sets are measurable
okay, that condition is just the T_1 separation axiom
22:50
is it not possible that singletons are measurable, but not necessarily closed
interesting
23:28
thanks!
@Thorgott fair point, thanks as well!
23:44
Next challenge, @robjohn (you always seem to rise to the occasion), for Thanksgiving, transform yourself into a Turkey, or wild Turkey, or Angry Bird, or Mean Tom (Turkey). The morale of this site is depending on you! That is your mission. This tape will expire upon reading this!
^^^^ @robjohn I realize I am asking a lot, but accept the challenge to rise to the occasion in the way you see fitting!
23:56
example of a diffeomorphism $f:\Bbb C\to \Bbb C^+$?
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