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05:00
@PeterTamaroff Not really. But I'm just a poor programmer, not a mathematician :P
I'll go now. There is a huge storm approaching so I need to move to calmer waters. Bye all.
@DeadMG Bah! Try to think about it for a while, you should get it.
the misunderstanding was he didn't know $n$ was being plugged into the formula mentioned earlier
@robjohn @anon "See" you.
@anon Oh, OK.
Byes. [Rows away]
05:05
finally I can chat here >.<
having trouble solving a boolean formula, and it's kinda irritating.
been waiting to come to the glorious math chat?
why would he put an email address? that's silly.
no idea
05:09
@anon Clearly, he wants to be spammed badly... >:)
@J.M. Could be a honeypot.
@DeadMG Yes, always a possibility in these unsure times.
I'm now wondering what's the most number of users named "anon" that showed up at a thread...
lol
how can you solve a problem which is too big to see?
@DeadMG: Suppose
$$
n=\sum_{k\ge0}d_kp^k
$$
Then
$$\begin{align}
\left\lfloor\frac{n}{p}\right\rfloor&=\sum_{k\ge1}d_kp^{k-1}\\
\left\lfloor\frac{n}{p^2}\right\rfloor&=\sum_{k\ge2}d_kp^{k-2}\\
\left\lfloor\frac{n}{p^3}\right\rfloor&=\sum_{k\ge3}d_kp^{k-3}\\
&\vdots\\
\left\lfloor\frac{n}{p^j}\right\rfloor&=\sum_{k\ge j}d_kp^{k-j}\\
&\vdots
\end{align}
$$
So the number of factors of $p$ in $n!$ is
$$
\begin{align}
\sum_{j\ge1}\left\lfloor\frac{n}{p^j}\right\rfloor
&=\sum_{j\ge1}\sum_{k\ge j}d_kp^{k-j}\\
I've been trying to get used to the etiquette of answering math questions
trying to improve my first answer right now
05:21
@J.M. I was too late.
@Gnintendo you should eventually get the hang of it...
@J.M. Is my first answer OK?: math.stackexchange.com/a/176974/36658
@robjohn Oh well, at least it's less visible now. :)
I know it's a little long, but I feel like it was warranted by the question
Is there anything I could do to improve the answer?
@robjohn Thanks.
05:23
I see you've answered a lot, so is there any advice you have for that?
@J.M. I've only seen two anons in a thread at a time, iirc. one or two of those times was just me telling the other anon "nice name" ...
@Gnintendo Well, it's a start. :) There are a number of better approximations to the normal distribution CDF, but yours seems good enough for this case.
Well, I read about some better elementary normal distribution approximations that work really well, but I still felt like the internet was a little cheap to use as a resource in this case
I wanted something that I could go out in the middle of nowhere and figure out given enough time, pencils, and paper
and I felt like this really accomplishes that
that seems a little anal, but the asker mentioned in the comment he was restricted to a calculator >.<
software is win
@Gnintendo Hmm, I suppose. Though, if the calculator you speak of still has the ability to evaluate $\exp(x)$, Simpson's might be a bit more expedient.
05:32
hmm, maybe
(mm, probably)
my approach is really sexy though <3
Or, for that matter, $\mathrm{erf}(x)=\frac2{\sqrt\pi} x\exp(-x^2)\sum_{j=0}^\infty \frac{2^j}{(2j+1)!!}x^{2j}$, though that requires a detour into differential equations...
to be honest, I didn't particularly consider simpson's: I felt like I had to prove the accuracy of any estimation I used, and I knew I could do that for a taylor series
how can I solve a boolean formula which is too large for generalised automated solvers?
@DeadMG how large is "large"?
make software that can handle even bigger boolean formulas and is therefore even mroe generalized
more*
05:37
the total complexity is over $10^{40}$
oh god
you don't
@Gnintendo (You can edit your previous messages by pressing the up-arrow key.)
heh
(oh, thanks)
@DeadMG ...how exactly did you get to that many?
05:37
I mean, we have mathematical methods for breaking the advanced encryption standard, but they're too computationally intensive to be of any use
@J.M. Because the formula is derived from a repetitive application.
This sounds like it would be the same sort of issue: it's not computationally practical
I mean, consider something like a2 = a * a * a; a3 = a2 * a2 * a2; 64 times.
just for starters
unless we can find a simpler method of solving it than traditional means (exploiting some factor of the repetitive application), I wouldn't think it would be feasible
@DeadMG It would seem to me that there might be a more expedient alternative route than what you're considering.
05:39
@J.M. Yeah, that. That's what I'm trying to say. >.<
@J.M. Indeed. In fact, by representing it that way, I cut it down to a mere 102549 intermediate states.
of which, I have solved using relatively simple boolean identities, approximately 99.5% of them
I feel like @J.M. got all the credit for what I said first :s
I feel robbed D;
the problem is, I'm stuck on the other 0.5%
generalized solvers require normalizing the formula, and that takes exponential time to produce an output (and probably exponential time to solve, too).
and my more specific solver can only solve the sub-formulae which I program it to find and solve.
so then what we need is a better generalized solver?
@Gnintendo Sorry about that. Not intentional at all.
05:42
@J.M. all lies
the problem is that there's just so much noise, it's hard to see what I'm even dealing with
that's the beauty of a generalized solver
it doesn't care about noise
@Gnintendo *shrug*
we need a solver that can handle a non-normalized formula, and do the obvious
@Gnintendo Did that.
"the obvious" is what got me the existing 99.5% :P
05:43
I guess we can't really help you without knowing the .5% at this point
>.<
I can't even identify them.
Worst comes to worst, if this is just one of those things like an NP-problem...
I mean, I can get "List of states which are connected to known states", but which ones are the problematic ones?
oh man, my second answer is losing: math.stackexchange.com/questions/177883/…
time for some editing
hmm.
@J.M. Nah.
NP-Complete problems are usually very generalized. It's very common, if not universal, that specific sub-cases can be solved in better, if not much better, time.
the existing 99.5% I can solve for in linear time.
05:46
@DeadMG You have a guarantee in advance that it won't be that complicated to solve? :)
heh
@DeadMG That's true. The problem is when you've exhausted the special cases...
Low-hanging fruit, and all that.
I can't guarantee it. But I'm fairly sure that it would violate conservation of information if it was.
personally, I believe that it has a simple solution, but I just can't see it through the sheer volume at hand.
if not for heuristic methods of solving NP-complete/NP-hard problems, digital chips could never be designed!
@Bitrex More accurately, if not for the approximation to the solution.
05:50
@Bitrex True, those stochastic methods have been a boon. :)
(i.e., "it's not optimal, but it's close enough for government work.")
I've been considering simply iterating through all the states connected to known states, setting them to each value, and checking for contradictions.
could work but I'd hardly have demonstrated that it would always work
@DeadMG Right, sorry! In particular, like en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espresso_heuristic_logic_minimizer
what I'd need to do is eliminate the states which could be solved if I had solved some other state.
@J.M. lol I had the same question about the "other way around" but I can't comment on questions yet
if I have something like a xor b = known and b and c = known, then c is obviously not the next state which should be solved, because it wouldn't lead to the solution of any of the other states.
06:04
@Gnintendo It won't be long... only two upvotes more on your answers.
@J.M. Yeah, I thought my first answer would get more upvotes than two, I was kinda surprised
oh hey, it just randomly got upvoted
simultaneously when I stated it had two upvotes, it got upvoted
Dear universe, narrows eyes
That's actually one of the bigger problems I've had with the Mathematics site, a large portion of the questions need clarification due to the asker not fully understanding what they're asking (for obvious reasons), so I have to wait for somebody else to ask (or not ask) my question
Speaking of which, you should be able to follow your progress on acquiring abilities here.
It kinda limits me from answering...not for long, though
but, none of the connecting states are AND. :(
@DeadMG I presume DeMorgan's will not help at all...
06:08
oh, holy cow
I can comment now, wheeee
starts spamming comments everywhere
@J.M. XOR, not OR.
@DeadMG Ah, I misread.
Posting comments was really the last major limitation I had on my ability to participate :)
also, thanks for the link @J.M.
@J.M. no probs
I found this great little book on queueing theory when searching for an answer to my question about optimizing FIFO buffer size: win.tue.nl/~iadan/queueing.pdf
I think I know just enough basic probability to grasp it, heh
06:14
concurrent queues are a gift from the gods.
@J.M. If I follow certain tags can I get SE to notify me somehow? (you don't have to go into detail, I can research it if this is the case)
@Gnintendo You can configure RSS, I believe.
Is this a good way to keep up with questions you know, or do you generally just stalk the site occasionally
I generally just visit the site occasionally.
questions which are more than a few minutes old are usually unanswerable or already answered and accepted, at least on Stack Overflow.
not that I retain much interest in answering them
I looked into Superuser as a potential to get into, but I quickly realized 99.5% of the questions are unanswerable, and the 0.5% of answerable questions are people too lazy to Google
(just looking for some free points)
06:20
I'm not fast enough to answer most of the questions that I'm knowledgeable enough to answer, but I try to improve my skills by trying to come up with an answer (to the ones that aren't totally beyond me) without peeking!
sounds like a good approach to things
@robjohn hey
@Gnintendo hey
hello
@Gnintendo new to this site?
06:28
@Gnintendo ok
Is it THAT obvious, or did you look at my profile?
I guess there is the default avatar
Good morning everyone : )
that's kind-of a dead giveaway
note to self: change avatar to something nerdy and mathematical
@MattN. hey
@Gnintendo No, but we know the regulars ; )
06:29
I kind of like mine
@BenjaLim How are you?
not bad
Matt N: heh
Cool. : )
@MattN. Did you read my answer?
06:30
maybe I can become a regular ^.^
@BenjaLim You're doing Atiyah-MacDonald, too, right? (no, sorry but will do soon) Did you do inverse and direct limits?
@Gnintendo What kind of maths are you interested?
@MattN. Not at the moment
there's my list of what I'm doing now
@MattN. do you have stein and shakarchi volume 1?
I don't understand a sentence in there
BenjaLim: interested in? number theory
Let me check.
not that I know much, I'm just starting college in two weeks
06:31
@MattN. You do functional analysis so fourier series should be familiar to you.
@Gnintendo You can go to my user page to see the things I'm doing now.
@BenjaLim Well can you take screen shot and post it here?
goddamnit
no probs
I never really have any questions, so I'm here moreso to answer questions
I spied an interesting opportunity, and I used it ... to prove that true = a xor (not a).
06:31
I never have any questions - there's stuff I don't know, but only because I haven't been introduced to it yet
@MattN. The theorem is this:
I can't have a question about something I can't even describe
Suppose $f$ is an integrable (riemann) function on $S^1$
@BenjaLim I have Fourier Analysis, an intro. Is that the right book?
@MattN. stein and shakarchi yes
06:32
Gimme page number
@Gnintendo I am doing Algebraic topology now
Once I know what it is, I tend to do enough self-experimentation and research that I know it all
@MattN. theorem 2.1 page 39
BenjaLim: not sure how I feel about topology, I'll take a topology class and see where that puts me
@Gnintendo you can prove the brouwer fixed point theorem for the disk with algebraic topology
06:33
one of my majors is math, and I'm starting college as a junior by credits so I can start straight-in on upper-level mathematics courses
@MattN. Look at the proof
@BenjaLim Ok. What is your question?
(not sure I can help though)
I don't understand the sentence:
"since $f$ is continuous at $0$, we can choose $0 < \delta \leq \pi/2$ so that $f(\theta) > f(0)/2$ whenever $|\theta|<\delta$
BenjaLim: Interesting, I'll investigate
@Gnintendo And the fundamental theorem of algebra too :D
06:35
O.o
>.>
@MattN. I don't get how that follows from continuity.
a xor a = false is often how you have to express "0" when writing shellcode to exploit a buffer overflow in C
@MattN. Like why can we choose $\delta \in (0,\pi/2]$ and not say $(0,\pi]$?
hmph
(thank god I found that chatjax bookmark)
say, could you link me to it? someone did for me a whil back but then Chrome crashed
06:36
Ok, gimme just a minute I'm typing it up.
@MattN. thanks :D :D :D
@MattN. Merci de m'aider
@BenjaLim De rien : )
@Bitrex ^
You want the one for "Start Chatjax"
off topic: is there a general stackoverflow chat room?
Thanks.
06:37
Hey, but if that is your only question: we can of course also choose $\delta \in (0, \pi]$.
I don't see it on chat.stackexchange.com
Ok then lemme type.
@MattN. well not really.
@MattN. Like it seems stein is taking $\epsilon = f(0)/2$
If it is that then I understand
but then the next line
Let $p(\theta) = \epsilon + \cos \theta$ where $\epsilon > 0$ is chosen so small that....
@BenjaLim Yes, it is just that!
You see, $|\theta| < \delta$ is just another way of saying $\theta \in (-\delta, \delta) = B(0, \delta)$.
@MattN. yes
@MattN. I get that.
06:39
So you understand it all?
The midpoint of the $\delta$-ball is mapped to $f(0)$.
no
what do you mean?
@term-rewritica I don't think there is one.
You apply $f$ to the delta-ball around zero. Then you get that $f(B_\delta)$ is contained in the epsilon ball around $f(0)$.
Now what is epsilon? I need to look at the statement again.
@MattN. I think it is $f(0)/2$
Yes. So think about it in pictures: We can choose epsilon small enough so that $f(0)/2$ is outside the epsilon ball around $f(0)$.
$f(0)$ is a point in our space. We take epsilon small, consider the ball around it. Then $f(0)/2$ lies outside it.
06:44
@MattN. So now we are choosing $\epsilon$ so small that $B_\epsilon(f(0) \cap f(0)/2 = \emptyset$
Since $f(0) > f(0)/2$, this means that all points in the epsilon ball are also greater $f(0)/2$.
@BenjaLim No the other way around: you want $f(0)/2 < f(0) - \varepsilon$.
I want to go to bed, but one of my answers to a question is tied for votes with another answer. The suspense is killing me.
Draw a picture.
@MattN. I am going to draw a picture
I wish there was an online canvas, then I could draw one for you.
Does anyone know of an online canvas?
06:46
@MattN. I am drawing one now....
@Gnintendo Losing sleep over this site is a sign of addiction :-)
@MattN. Ok I think I get it. But the delta thingy being less than $\pi/2$ is confusing me.....
I can't be addicted after four days
It totally doesn't mean my arbitrary definition for addiction
(defined as of ~20 seconds ago)
@MattN. Draw in MS Paint, dump to imgur?
@BenjaLim Since $f$ is defined on $[-\pi, \pi]$ you may replace it and say "we can find $\delta$ such that $B(0, \delta) \subset [-\pi, \pi]$".
06:48
ok.
@Bitrex Take too long.
@Gnintendo What is your definition?
@MattN. So perhaps I should not worry about the $\delta $ being less than $\pi/2$
@skullpatrol um, 7 days
@BenjaLim No. As far as I can see you should not.
06:49
consecutive, with >=4 causing loss of sleep
@MattN. Let's move on to the next line
Anyway, I have to make some coffee now and then I have the pleasure to read more <3 functional analysis <3
@MattN. ok
@Gnintendo Consecutive, I assume.
06:50
@BenjaLim No, very sorry, but I need to prepare for exams.
@MattN. thanks for your help
drag across screen, automatic dump to imgur
@MattN. no worries
No problem. And after my exams: any time! : )
@MattN. I did exercise 1.1.5 in hatcher
very tricky one of those implications
06:50
@skullpatrol to be specific, 7 consecutive days containing site activity with at least 4 of the 7 days entailing a loss of sleep
I think it was (b) \implies (c)
It's like a video game
but I get points for doing math
yay points...now...sleep.
I should get points for sleeping.
07:35
@BenjaLim Sorry, don't have time to look at the book right now.
@MattN. How's the studying going, if you don't mind me asking?
Thanks for ignoring me.
07:50
Hello everybody!
@ZhenLin Thanks for the answer!
@Nimza: hihihi
@Ilya As-tu passé l'examen de philosophie quand tu entrais à l'aspiranture?
@Nimza Non, je ne obligee pas de passe l'examen de philosophie
@Ilya et quelles examens as-tu passé?
08:02
Я учил французский 4 года, 10 лет назад. Может, хватит указывать на мою ничтожную память? :)
@Ilya ici cet examen est le plus difficile :( il comprends la litterature russe
@Ilya pardon, не знал :)
Although I could read what you have written
I shall start reading in French again, if only I have some time ;(
Here the education is different from Russian: even doing BSc or MSc in math you do not have to go through humanity courses
@Ilya for students it is a big +
well, I was really loving philosophy before it was taught to us
our lecturer was a weird emo-girl
looking like a vampire
@Ilya wow, she was propaganding emo-philosophy?
08:05
but instead of having nice non-trivial thoughts, she was just boring
if only!
In fact I passed exams only beacuse I was reading Ulysses by Joyce
and there was everything what I needed
fortunately, my ticket was about ancient Greece
I do not know anything about classical German philosophy - I don't think that Nietzsche counts
@Ilya mmm... my ticket was about Kant's philosophy
@Ilya I'm afraid of russian literature. We didn't have any course here, in university on this matter. Only in school
@Nimza oh, it is hard
the composition was the most scary exam for me when I was finishing the school
@Ilya but I'll try Ulysses. I didn't find any source where all themes are represented
@Ilya you're topguy! I had only a silver)
@Nimza I had a gold medal and 92% in ЕГЭ, I didn't have to pass anything to enter
@Ilya oh, I edited instead of writing new message ^ :( Silver because of russian in 10th class
08:13
with Russian I was ok
08:29
Guys, who knows how to select from all tori glued to infinity the one biholomorphic to surface $w^2 = (z-a)(z-b)(z-c)$?
поговорили, блин, о литературе, о прекрасном
конечно, давайте, биголоморфные отображения, торусы приклеенные к потолку
:D не смешно, а грустно
why?
@Ilya потому что у меня есть дедлайн с этой штукой)
ааа
08:37
Я почитываю тут литературу на тему - но это просто ужас. Уровень вхождения космический какой-то. Ну это видно по ответу на мой вопрос здесь на форуме. Я понял процентов 1-2%
@Nimza это где?
@Ilya math.stackexchange.com/questions/177518/drawing-elliptic-curve How to make links in chat with my text instead of url?
ох жеж
2
[text](link)
merci
09:15
Goood morning
hi
09:47
Hi
good day
1 2 9 365 f(fn)=f(n-1)^3/f(n-2), how to prove there all integer ? the simplest way
@robjohn Did you compile the CMath?
@LaiJiangshan $f(f(n))=f(n-1)^3/f(n-2)$?
@LaiJiangshan Or $f(n)=f(n-1)^3/f(n-2)$?
10:04
@JonasTeuwen ayt? I have a question about a Fourier related theorem.
Ok, bbl.
10:16
@FrankScience what CMath?
10:26
@robjohn Concrete Mathematics.
@FrankScience No, It didn't go immediately, and I have the hard copy, so I haven't tried further.
10:55
@robjohn I compiled each chapter.
@FrankScience I will have to try again to see why they weren't compiling. It may simply be that I need to install the fonts first.
@robjohn cp fonts/* . is needed.
into the folder where everything else is?
@robjohn Wait. I found mine is wrong.
user19161
@skullpatrol That's a lovely picture.
user19161
11:01
Who starred all the Russian messages? Crazy!
@robjohn BTW, is it illegal to compile this?
user19161
@FrankScience Did you read the licence? I don't know, but I know you are not supposed to compile the TeXbook without Knuth's permission.
It might be. I haven't read everything to see if there is a notice anywhere.
user19161
@robjohn Hmm. See the error messages. Are you using the right driver? I don't know.
@JasperLoy I did not find the license file here.
user19161
11:08
@skullpatrol Don't worry about it. It's not personal. Matt just has too many messages since he is such a popular guy. :-)
@JasperLoy I'm afraid I'm breaking the law.
user19161
@FrankScience Well, then just don't do it again and everything will be fine. Don't worry about it.
@JasperLoy But the fact is that I don't know whether it's against the law.
user19161
There are too many laws in this world for us to know what they are. Different countries also have different laws. Many laws are also quite stupid. Laws are also made by imperfect men for an imperfect world.
user19161
@FrankScience Neither do I.
11:12
@JasperLoy I know that there's no domestic law here to restrict the non-commercial copy/compile/disassemble any proprietary software, but with respect to the authors, I abide by the conventional behaviors in western countries.
user19161
@FrankScience And some laws are so stupid to me that if I say I respect it, I will be committing a great sin against my own moral conscience.
11:29
@JasperLoy Yes in this case it's personal. I added sp to my ignore list after the Asaf "drama" where he started badmouthing Asaf as soon as he returned. But that was just the last straw really. He generally posts lots of pictures and articles that I don't want to see and says a lot of things that I don't want to hear.
2
What would you consider to be the graduate level texts for Number Theory and Algebra that end up covering the most advanced topics in their respective fields, but lead with the least amount of prerequisites. Right now I'm working though Ireland&Rosen's Classic Number Theory(emphasis reciprocity), and plan to go through Algebra 0(emphasis category theory I believe).
My goal is that if I work through the books I will end up being able to work on advanced topics when I get to the end of them.
@MattN. Well. Now I am.
But how 8-).
It is full of crazy starred messages!
12:03
@MattN.
@JonasTeuwen Hi, still there?
@MattN. Yep, Bro. Was about to go for breakfast. Can you wait ~2 hours?
@JonasTeuwen Sure. Can I post it here in the meantime? Then you can read it when you get back without having to wait for my typing it.
@MattN. Sure.
@MattN. But I might not look in the window, so perhaps you need to notify me 8-). (but probably I will). See you!
Ok! : ) Aces. Have fun!
I would like to check with you that I correctly interpret the theorem I just read. The theorem in question is the following:

Let $H$ be a Hilbert space. Let $e_i$ be a countable orthonormal subset. Then for points $x$ in the closure of the linear hull of $e_i$ we know the following:

There is a sequence $s_n = \sum_{k=0}^n a_k e_k$ converging to $x$ (in norm) and $a_k = \langle x,e_k \rangle$ and $\|x\|^2 = \sum |a_k|^2$.
Question: Then isn't this theorem basically Parseval for the general case of a Hilbert space?
Now I will notify you for when you get back later: @JonasTeuwen
Notify me too when you're back, please.
12:37
@skullpatrol Is that going to be your new gravatar :-)
@robjohn Yes, Sir.
@robjohn Do you like it, Sir?

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