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18:00
What does $f^{-1}(U)$ mean, @T_01?
oh I mean the inverse of $f$
@TedShifrin So far the initial opening up seems to have not caused any unforseen increases in new cases
OK, in this case, the inverse is a map. If $f$ is an automorphism, it is an isomorphism, in particular.
But Denmark did have things quite a bit under control before opening anything up
I hope it stays that way, @Tobias.
18:01
well it is an Isomorphism
what am I missing?
So think about dimensions. If $U$ is a subspace, what dimension does $f(U)$ have?
that statement seems wrong to me
@T_01 Actually, you need the subspace to be fnite-dimensional for this to be true
it's true if $V$ has finite dimension
yes, I assume finiteness.
Oh, it has to have the same dimension
18:03
oh yeah, finite dimension of $U$ suffices
well then I know that the image of the inverse under $U$ has the same dimension
Of course, like everyone else, the Danish government wants a Corona-app. And like elsewhere, the government and experts are arguing over how best to implement it.
so i know $\dim(f(U)) = \dim(U)$ and so I know $\dim(f^{-1}(U)) = \dim(U)$
I still do'nt get it. What am I missing?
@T_01 Try taking a step backwards, before thinking about $f^{-1}$. With the new realization, what does the assumption say?
Wait. You know $f(U)$ has the same dimension as $U$ and is also a subspace of $U$.
18:11
@TobiasKildetoft what Ted sayed (?)
yes, what can you conclude from that?
So what does that tell you?
that $f(U)$ is in fact $U$
and then it's finished
Well, then. You're done.
facepalm
Thank you.
18:12
Team effort.
@TedShifrin can I ask you a measure theory question?
I do not do measure theory.
Just ask; don't ask to ask
Actually interesting if you could define a measure space out of some class of theories...
18:13
top right
There are other people here besides Ted.
@Astyx Thanks
5
Q: What is the measure of $\int_{A}^B a_{\frac{x-A}{dx} } f(x) dx$?

More Anonymous Mathematicians like to ask covering various sets with open intervals and the answers to these riddles have strange tendencies to become strange lemma's or theorems Heine-Borel Theorem, lebesgue's Number Lemma, Vitali Covering Lemma, Besicovitch Covering Theorem, (etc) -3blue1brown By...

Does the question make sense?
Looks like garbage to me.
Yea ... I wasnt sure either since I dont do measure theory
@TedShifrin You read quick btw
@TedShifrin Also do you mind elaborating
?
Not going to elaborate. I'm not interested in it.
18:19
Ohk ...
Are train tracks used a lot in topology?
In the mathematical area of topology, a train track is a family of curves embedded on a surface, meeting the following conditions: The curves meet at a finite set of vertices called switches. Away from the switches, the curves are smooth and do not touch each other.
At each switch, three curves meet with the same tangent line, with two curves entering from one direction and one from the other.
ah nevermind
18:41
I mean branched manifold. If $X_1$ is a manifold, $X_2$ is isometric to $X_1$ and they are transversal, with $N^2$ double points, that are associated to lattice with intrinsic positive curvature, then consider diff(B), the diffeomorphism group of the branched manifold B consisting of $N^2$ double points. Diff(B) is a discrete group correct?
so, the mapping class group could be used to represent the symmetries of the branched manifold B?
$MCG(B)=\pi_0(Diff(B)).$ not sure if this holds tho
19:33
Where is everyone tonight?
What is the direct sum of unitary representations? How is it defined? From what I understand, it doesn't correspond to the direct sum of the underlying Hilbert spaces.
@AlessandroCodenotti Home of course. What is this, some sort of trick question?
Or maybe it does...
not sure...
@TobiasKildetoft Aha fair enough
19:52
What is the maximum number of points the edges of a convex polygon can intersect the edges of a triangle?
I am guessing 6 (for example, say the convex polygon was triangle, then imagine the star of David).
Even for higher n-gons (convex), after drawing a lot of pictures it seems that each side of the triangle can get intersected at most twice.
oh of course.
If the an edge of the triangle gets intersected thrice, then our n-gon won't be convex.
6 it is.
@AlessandroCodenotti Hi. What are you doing?
Working on my thesis. Which right now consists of complaining loudly about how awful the Hausdorff metric is to work with
What's the thesis on?
Asymptotic dimension of metric spaces very generally
undergrad?
20:00
ah, ok
No clue what that is.
Does your thesis contain any meme?
unfortunately not
I am slightly disappointed... (only slightly)
@feynhat The main idea is that it's a notion of dimension that only cares about what your space looks like on a large scale
Well I'm still writing it, I might remedy to that lol
Like $\Bbb Z$ is one dimensional in this sense, because if you look at it from far away it's pretty much a line
While all bounded spaces are zero dimensional because they're pretty much a point if seen from afar
That's the intuitive idea of how it works
I see.
20:06
Also the usual notion of dimension like the Lebesgue covering dimension pick the maximum of the "local dimensions"
Like if you have a ball with a plane emanating from its equator the covering dimension is $3$, because the ball is $3$ dimensional, but (with the standard metric inherited from $\Bbb R^3$) the asymptotic dimension is $2$, because it looks $2$-dimensional at infinity (outside of a compact set)
what about the union of the two axes in the plane?
$1$ dimensional in all senses
I see. Because the ball is compact, at the large scale, its as good as not being there at all. Like I could have a 7d-ball and a ray sticking out of it, it will be 1-d.
Your masters is a 2-year program, I suppose?
20:14
Yes, in Europe it's normal to have a 3 years long bachelor followed by a 2 years long masters
Cool.
alessandro that's really cool
the asymptotic dimension idea
It's an idea of Gromov, of course it's really cool
hi everyone
in need help with something real quick: $χ_{⋃E_n}$=∑$χ_{E_n}$ note χ is the inidicator function
You can use \sum for the Sigma symbol
and \cup or \bigcup for unions
20:24
$E_n$ have to be pairwise disjoint
yes the $E_n$ are pairwise disjoint
@Alessandro ah of course Gromov! :) do you have any idea how you'd compute the asymptotic dimension of a mapping class group of an orientable finite type surface? It must have finite dimension of course. But is it hard to compute?
I don't know what most of those words mean, so no idea
I actually don't know any geometry
I'll just compute it when I have time I guess
@geocalc33 Off-topic, but do you know an example of a finite type surface which is not compact?
Compact surfaces are finite type, for sure. I think the converse is false.
*smooth, of course. The first step of the proof is to equip the manifold with a metric.
20:32
@feynhat good question :)
20:43
in case anyone wants to jump in...A surface S has finite type if there exists a compact surface F and a finite subset A⊂F such that S is homeomorphic to F−A
whaaa...
I have a very different definition
what's yours?
(hopefully in smooth setting they're both same).
A good cover is a cover in which intersection of any 2 sets finite collection of sets is diffeomorphic to $\Bbb R^n$.
If a manifold has a finite good cover, we call it of finite type.
I like that one better
20:50
$f$ is a continuous function from a compact metric space $X$ to metric space $Y$, then I think $f$ is uniformly continuous and hence $f(x)$ is also continuous?
$f(x)$ is a specific value, it doesn't make sense to call it continuous
if you mean that $f$ is continuous, then that's what you started with..
oh ya
@geocalc33 Its from Bott&Tu btw. They use it in all the place: proof of finite-dimensionality of de Rham cohomology, Poincaré duality, Kunneth formula etc...
I say $f$ is continuous?
Oh
I mean to say $f(X)$
@Thorgott
what does it mean for a set to be continuous??
20:55
Thanks! got that similar to here
@Thorgott it means that the pre-image of an open set is open
@learning_mathematician no, that's what it means for a function to be continuous
@feynhat ah cool. Consider a surface $U=(0,1)^2$ in the real plane. Decompose $U$ into an infinite set of real analytic functions which form a family, $F_s=\{f_{s}(x):s\in \Bbb R_{>0}\},$ with real parameter $s$, s.t. $f_{s_n}(x)f_{s_k}(x)=f_{s_n+s_k}(x)$ for some $n,k\in \Bbb N.$ Require $f(0)=1$ and $f(1)=0.$ Decompose $U$ again into $F^*_s=\{f_s(1-x):s \in \Bbb R_{>0}\}$ requiring $f(0)=0$ and $f(1)=1,$ and $f_{s_n}(1-x)f_{s_k}(1-x)=f_{s_n+s_k}(1-x).$
Take $K=F_s \cup F^*_s$ to be topologically equivalent to the surface $U.$
@Thorgott I don't think sets are continuous, but functions between sets may be
yeah, that was my point
20:59
@geocalc33 what even...
sorry... just thinking through your question about a converse
@Thorgott in some instances you have continuity sets, which are the points where a function f is continuous
@learning_mathematician what even...
@feynhat What is a finite type surface?
Well, I mean, I don't know what your definition is but for any good definition, the answer will be the same.
Finite type surfaces which are not compact arise from deleting points in the interior of compact surfaces
And conversely
Do you really need "finite type" to get a good cover?
21:07
*finite good cover
Ah
The above should still be true but I don't know the equivalence. I can sketch one direction but it will be sketchy.
Do you believe me that a compact manifold with boundary admits a finite "good-with-boundary" cover, in which every intersection of open sets is empty, diffeomorphic to Euclidean space, or diffeomorphic to Euclidean half-space?
Seems believable.
I can find a finite good cover for the interior, and then for the boundary. I will extend these boundary neighborhoods to interior... and the take the union of this collection.
what. no. how can I find finite good cover for interior? this is not true (my argument, i mean).
@feynhat You can find a finite good cover near the boundary (do a sort of "halfspace exponentiation", where you have chosen the metric so that the boundary is totally geodesic, aka the exponential actually preserves the boundary). This covers an open set containing the boundary, whose complement is compact.
Now do the usual kind of Riemannian exponential for your charts for points near that compact set.
(You had the right idea, you just did them in the wrong order!)
Now deleting the boundary gives you a finite good cover (in the usual sense) of a noncompact manifold.
It's not hard to see that a surface with a finite good (or good-with-boundary) cover has H^1(S;Z/2) finite dimensional. And it follows without too much difficulty from the fact that noncompact surfaces have compact exhaustions, and the classification of compact surfaces, that such a surface is obtained by a compact surface from deleting finitely many points in the interior
21:26
(does anyone have any idea how to compute the asymptotic dimension of a mapping class group of an orientable finite type surface?) If the surface is $S=[0,1]^2$ then the asymptotic dimension is probably $<\infty$
I don't know what you can say in higher dimensions, there's a theorem of Stallings characterizing manifolds which you can compactify to one with boundary
This is too much RG for me.
I am bookmarking this and will revisit it when I have sufficient background.
I have quite a few of your posts bookmarked @MikeMiller. lol.
Oh, that's charming.
@AlexanderGruber had no idea you still updated the emperor
@MikeMiller Haha, yeah. He was on horseback before this one.
Nice, the last one I remembered was the admiral
21:48
@MikeMiller next may be a priest.
how are you holding up under quarantine?
Does anyone here have any experience with Google Classroom? If it says, "Due Tomorrow, 9:00AM" and its 3AM right now, does it mean its due this morning? Or the next one?
@AlexanderGruber let me shoot you a message tomorrow
sounds good
@feynhat Most likely the latter. To confirm, change your time zone to put you around 4 hours earlier.
See what it says then
22:07
good idea. trying.
Weird. I set my timezone to America/Vancouver (its 15:10 now). And now google says "Due 8:30PM, tomorrow"
well today's the day it seems.
Bizarre
22:22
I'm confused why we have one $\lambda$ for all $f$. I only see that they argued that for all non-zero scalar multiples of (our chosen) $f$ we have the same $\lambda$, but what about an $f'$ which is not a scalar multiple of $f$?
Here $\hat\gamma$ sends an operator $U$ to the operator defined by $\hat\gamma U(\phi)=\overline{Uf}$, where $\phi=\overline f$.
why is everyone here talking about topology and number theory only?
(I don't know why \hat isn't positioned properly)
Let's talk about arrival theorem
(if I have to clarify more notation, let me know. I am not sure how much of the notation there is conventional)
pasta property
Well looks like no one is interested in applied math.
May be Talk bout chaos theory
no
Why should we talk about chaos
😱😱
Ok bye
22:27
there's hardly any number theory conversations here
I am bored
@Thorgott You can teach it to me if you want
oh, I actually might see it.
@ShaVuklia $\widehat{\gamma}$ \widehat{\gamma}
That notation is awful my god
22:31
@LeakyNun ah, thanks
My argument now is: let $f$ be as given. Consider $\mathbb C f$. We know its orthogonal complement exists. So we can write any $g\in\mathbb H$ as $g=f^\perp+\mu f$. Using linearity of $U$, we obtain $U(g)=U(f^\perp+\mu f)=\lambda' f^\perp +\lambda\mu f$. For $U$ to be truly linear, we need $\lambda'=\lambda$.
did I ever give off the impression that I know any number theory?
@MikeMiller You mean the $\gamma$-notation?
If so, I fully agree.
I meant $U(\mathbb{P})$
Do you have a suggestion for an alternative?
It's not even obvious what that's supposed to be lol
Isometries of projective space?
22:37
It's the image of $U(\mathcal H)$ under the operator $\widehat\gamma$
no your book says it's the isometries of projective space
i just checked
They call it projective unitary operators, I believe
@ShaVuklia Something to do with the fact that if every subspace is invariant under a linear map, then the map is a scalar multiple of identity. (just guessing though. I don't have much idea what going on there)
This is a screenshot from my book.
I sure believe that isometry of projective space is also a good term
Yeah, I was reading the introduction to the section, where they call it the isometries of projective space, which it is
I saw that a little bit later
Anyway the better notation is $PU(\mathcal H)$ if $\mathcal H$ is your hilbert space.
22:40
ait, thx, might consider using that notation
This is an incredibly bizarre treatment.
well, hey @AlexanderGruber!!
@MikeMiller you mean just notation-wise or in general?
What book is this?
because if you suggest a better book, I'm all ears (I was planning on reading chapter 3 and 4 here)
22:40
Hi there @TedShifrin. How's it going?
A mathematical introduction to conformal field theory by Schottenloher
What were the things you were trying to learn
If you're asking me to give you different introductions to conformal field theory, then no, I do not hae them
Still alive, I guess. Glad to see you out and about! I've spoken to you since you finished, but I've forgotten where you are now.
I want to learn how to lift reps of isometries of projective space
In general the way they've defined this (the image of unitaries in $\text{Aut}(\Bbb P)$) is probably the least insightful way you could possibly define this object
22:42
And the case where $G$, our group, is connected will do (as is treated in this book)
as I'm in the end interested in lifting group homomorphisms $\rho\colon\operatorname{SL}_2(\mathbb C)\to PU(\mathcal H)$
@TedShifrin I went into industry doing AI/ML. Got student loans to pay. So, now I live in Chicago.
The projective unitary group $PU(n)$ is to me by definition $U(n)/U(1)$; it is nontrivial but true that $\text{Isom}^+(\Bbb{CP}^n) = PU(n+1)$
Why do you want to do these things
Very cool. I hope you're relatively happy and safe and sound these days!
@AlexanderGruber where in chicago
Relatively. :)
22:43
@MikeMiller I think this book also gave that definition somewhere.
@MikeMiller I live in Chinatown.
@MikeMiller Because I'm studing the irreducible projective representations of the identity component of $SO(1,3)$
Your back has recovered, @Alex?
hello from south shore
@TedShifrin LOL ah, well, funny you should ask. Somebody hit me with a car again after I graduated. But I'm in PT so it's on its way back.
22:45
Lifting those to the universal cover seems the way to go, and from there on I have to determine irr. unitary representations of the special linear group
Oh geez.
@MikeMiller Oh wow! When did you move up here?
I haven't been to chiro, massage, or PT in about two months, and my body is not happy.
Yeah, when did Mike escape NYC for Chicago?
I've been doing telehealth PT. Basically paying somebody to watch me work out on webcam
Oh, interesting. Well, I've been doing all my regular exercises for my neck, so I need the actual massages and manipulations, so I haven't tried tele-stuff for this. It's bad enough for teaching mathematics :(
22:47
@ShaVuklia OK. I need to think for a while to see if I have anything to say. I don't know the literature on this subject, but it's related to things I know. Are you sure your question is answered in that book?
@AlexanderGruber mar 10 it seems
Wow, @MikeM, I had no idea, earthly or otherwise.
the move to online classes was announced march 9
@MikeMiller Hell of a time to move.
Yeah, but staying in the epicenter seems scarier, for sure.
Although I know lots of folks in NYC who all seem to be doing fine.
It wasn't the epicenter then! It's temporary, and with that information you might be able to guess why the move
22:49
No lease in NYC, Mike?
If $f$ is increasing on $(a,b)$ then I think it is correct to say $-f$ is decreasing?
Also will then $-f$ have discontinuity of second kind?
Where did a discontinuity come from, @Baymax?
I'll catch you both up later, I'm basically checking this for a moment in the middle of work with a deadline --- I should focus instead of getting into a long chat :)
Yes, go work.
@MikeMiller I believe so yes. I went through a bunch of possible literature, and I seemed most pleased with the treatment in this one. My plan is to go roughly through the relevant theory for me tomorrow. If I feel unsatisfied about the treatment, I might ask you tomorrow or the day after if something came up to you.
22:50
@MikeMiller don't be a stranger.
We're all in a strange land, @Alex, so why not?
I'm sure you can read it, I just hate his notation and his choice of definitions. But that just makes it idiosyncratic
not bad
@TedShifrin it has gotten quite strange lately.
sorry I meant to say no discontinuity
@TedShifrin
usually this sort of thing is answered by group cohomology but everything is always more subtle when neither group is discrete
22:51
I hope then its correct?
@Baymax: If your original increasing $f$ had discontinuities, then of course $-f$ does as well.
and your case is very explicit
@MikeMiller Yes, that is the approach they take.
The identical discontinuities, but upside-down.
I won't read ahead because I'm sure it'll give me a stomachache
22:52
got that
And I sure believe they make simplifying assumptions on the spaces they're working with, as their goal is physics-oriented, which probably makes the treatment a bit less abstract (and I'm fine with that for the moment).
The set of complex numbers with $|z| > 1$ is a perfect set?
The spaces they're working with are projective spaces and Lie groups, aren't they? I'm not sure that there's room for simplifying assumptions
@BAYMAX is it closed?
nope, open
23:02
do you see that perfect sets have to be closed?
perfect if it is closed and no isolated points
so $|z|>1$ is not perfect
set
indeed
Thanks
Let $E$ be a non compact set in $\Bbb{R}$. Then there exists a continuous and bounded function on $E$ which has no maximum?
BAYMAX I heard you in movie.
What am I missing here? I need to show that $\int_D \frac{\dot{\beta}(t)\dot{\beta}(t)}{\vert\vert\dot{\beta}(t)\vert\vert} dt = \vert\vert\dot{\beta}(t)\vert\vert$.
23:16
@BAYMAX Yes, prove it
@StupidKid Oh yaa, thank you! there there...
I am trying to do a bit of math apart from health care too :)
@MikeMiller oh thanks ya
@BAYMAX Great! Good luck with your new program.
Thanks!
Where $\beta$ is some curve in $\Bbb{R}^n$.
I think a dot product may be @gian ?
Let $f$ be monotonically increasing on $(a, b)$. Then for any point $x$ of $(a, b)$, we have
Both $f(x^+)$ and $f(x-)$ exists
?
I think it should be $f(x^+) > f(x^-)$ ?
23:24
@BAYMAX The inner product tells me that $\vert\vert\dot{\beta}(t)\vert\vert ^2 = \int_D \dot{\beta}(t)\dot{\beta}(t) dt$.
But I don't know if I can pull the $\frac{1}{\vert\vert\dot{\beta}(t)\vert\vert}$ outside of the integral.
hmm if thats a constant and does not change within $D$, whats $D$ though?
Just an interval. This is within the context of curves.
@BAYMAX Would I have to impose this condition on $\beta$? Namely I can only consider a $\beta$ with constant speed?
hm maybe, I think $\beta(t)$ can change and hence derivative of $\beta(t)$
unless you impose some extra conditions
such that the derivative does not change and hence the norm becomes constant and you can pull it out of the integration
hm not sure, maybe someone else can come up with a better answer!
Yeah I think you're right. I can always find a unit-speed reparametrization of the curve so this shouldn't be ad hoc to assume.
Thanks.
23:42
Thanks!
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