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01:38
thanks @EnjoysMath, great minds right?
01:52
rehi @Ted
rehi, a @Balarka
I showed Mike my answer and he says he's glad topology is dead
ROFL.
That was not charitable of him.
He's commenting on how hilariously incomprehensible the formula is but it's actually something really dumb, I am sure
I remember reading about locally flat stuff reading Samelson's proof back from the 60's sometime that justified (in a setting more general than smooth topology) that Poincaré duality corresponded to intersection.
01:58
This is exactly how old papers by eg Brown or Bing or ... on geometric topology reads
@TedShifrin Ahh nice
When I started in grad school, I kept bugging everyone about why (in the smooth setting) Poincaré duality corresponded to transverse intersection. Stallings tried to do it at the end of our algebraic topology course, but flubbed it. Bott/Tu had a nice exposition later.
Ultimately, one cannot avoid the Thom class, I've concluded.
Haha. Do you have the Samelson reference? I might actually try to read it
Bott/Tu is pretty slick about it
Oh, that was one of the things I threw out when I retired. Let me see if I can google and find it.
@BalarkaSen @TedShifrin Hi.
Hi @feynhat
02:02
hi feyn
@BalarkaSen Up early? or didn't sleep?
lol, i just checked the transcript.
Nice.
a Balarka is incorrigible.
No luck with googling, a Balarka.
Me and Alessandro encountered local flatness while reading Freedman's notes on the proof of 4D topological Poincare conjecture. We barely started, the first few pages are about the Schoenflies problem
Aw. Thanks for looking around!
02:08
It's strange. This shouldn't be that difficult.
What do you refer to?
Finding a list of his papers. I'm 100% sure he's the right author.
Ahh OK
I found "On Poincare duality" by Hans Samelson
grr ... I kept putting flat in there
02:12
although I did have Poincaré duality
I remember it as a relatively short article, so that might be it.
Cool, looks like a useful article
Of course, I have no access.
Oh I accessed it somehow
I am not even in university
02:14
You're super-Balarka.
This is strange; a few days ago Mike linked some Springer article that I could access but he couldn't
Maybe my device somehow cached the university access permission
Yup.
Or, you're super-Balarka.
A less likely but more desirable possibility, yes
Cool, Samelson defines the topological Thom class using (without mentioning it) the tangent microbundle
02:17
Were microbundles alive in the 50s?
If we want to show two paths are homotopic, the definition requires that the the bottom and the top edge of the homotopy square should be equal to the paths. Now, if instead I construct a square in which the top and bottom edge are homotopic to the paths, it should still work, right?
I am thinking of stitching two square at the top and the bottom which take you to the original paths.
Yes, composition of homotopies are homotopies
Or composition of homotopies is homotopies. No, that's not right, neither.
Lol
@TedShifrin You're right! Microbundles I came out in 64
thanks.
02:19
Yeah.
Oh, but that Samelson article is 1965. No problem.
@BalarkaSen Russian bookstore?
Ah nice.
@feynhat No I directly got it from Springer
I remembered 60's at the outset. Just not much more. I thought locally flat was in the title, but ...
the Russian bookstore is not for papers. There's a Russian journal library for that
Dinnertime for this bonzo. Good morning, a @Balarka.
02:21
Morning, @Ted!
Bon appetit
That's what I meant yes. The Russian journal library.
 
5 hours later…
06:56
$0 \to A \to B \to C \to 0$
why do we say $B$ is an extension of $C$ by $A$ instead of $A$ by $C$
07:11
Hi, I have a simple question: If I have m + m^c for some c>0, then how to show that it is equal to m^r for some r with any bound. Do we eliminate m and we get r=c or do we work as following: m + m^c = m(1+m^m^{c-1}). or do we upper bounded and then it is easy to get m^r for some r, e.g. m + m^c <= m^{1+c}.
 
1 hour later…
08:17
@BalarkaSen That's Kazakhstani
@BalarkaSen I'll read it later, but I'm disappointed by the lack of push pull arguments
 
1 hour later…
09:27
@skullpatrol Hello Pal!
hi pal @Knight
@skullpatrol What are gear systems in your bike?
In some motorbikes, the first gear shifts below and rest of them goes up, while in some other motorbikes all gears shifts down
One down, three up.
@Knight
$\text { Explain why } \vec{a} \downarrow \vec{c}=\vec{a} \downarrow(\vec{b} \downarrow \vec{c}) $ Someone know what this down arrow symbol indicate?
09:51
@skullpatrol Wow! But I find it hard and dangerous to shift the gear upwards
Start slowly and carefully @Knight
Yes
10:56
√-1 2*4 π and it was delicious!
11:14
Hi guys, I'm looking for a non-famous theorms that have multiple-proofs. Those theorems should be solved with the knowledge of students in their first/second semster. Is it possible to get some suggestions? I thought of asking them to prove that $3^n=\sum_{K=0}^{n}{n\choose k}2^k$ but I could only think of two solutions (binomial and combinatorics).
@AlessandroCodenotti Oh right
@AlessandroCodenotti Lol
12:12
hi chat
12:23
hello
12:46
Hi Astyx
13:13
Hi @Astyx
@BalarkaSen do you have any idea to my question above
That terminology confuses me a lot actually
I was hoping someone has a good answer
I would say $B$ is an $A$-bundle over $C$, the opposite order to what the algebraists say (I think?)
13:29
If $B$ is an $A$-bundle over $C$ it makes sense to say that $B$ is extending $C$ rather than $A$, doesn't it?
I guess
you're thickening $C$ by $A$. Makes sense
Lol, imagine if the reason was simply that the possible $B$'s are classified by $\text{Ext}_{\Bbb ZC}^2(\Bbb Z; A)$
13:46
@LeakyNun I was looking forward to some more Paganini, wtf is this
lmao
this is the anti-rickroll
I feel that making me read lean is definitely a rick roll
(I'm taking another HoTT course this semester though)
cool
next you're gonna tell me there are 100 ways to prove $\Bbb N = \Bbb N$ and all of the proofs are different
Lmfao
Not only are all the proofs different, the proofs that the proofs are different are also different
Ad infinitum
13:51
@LeakyNun The contemporary terminology is that $\Bbb N=\Bbb N$ has many inhabitants, you're so antiquated
That's what they call terms of a type?
Dang
@Thorgott Have you gone through Apostle’s Calculus ?
14:20
afraid not
Okay.
14:39
hello, please how to prove that the function arccos (the inverse function of cos on [0,\pi]) is no even no odd?
14:57
Let $X$ be a sequentially compact metric space. Then, every open cover of $X$ has a lebesgue number.
Suppose $X$ has an open cover $(U_i)_{i\in I}$, which admits no lebesgue number. In particular, for each $n$, there exists a sequence of non-empty sets, $A_n$, for which, $A_n$ is not contained in any of the $U_i$.Considering AOC, we choose $x_n\in A_n\backslash U_i$. Then, $x_n$ has a convergent subsequence, $(x_{n_k})$ such that $x_{n_k}\rightarrow x$ for some $x\in U_m$. Since $x_{n_k}$ converges, there must exists $K$, for which, $k\geq K$ implies $x_{n_k}\in U_m$. Contradiction.
i'm not sure why I can't choose $x_n's$ like that
Why is $x_{n_k}\in U_m$ a contradiction?
because $x_{n_k}$ was chosen to not be in any of the $U_i's$
@AlessandroCodenotti
oh wait
i confused the quantifiers
The $U_i$'s are a cover so it must be in some of them, I'm not sure what you're doing
15:02
yeah, I see it now
It's easier if you use that sequential compactness implies compactness in metric spaces and switch to a finite subcover
$x_n\in A_n\backslash U_i$ doesn't make sense. I see.
15:21
@lindaOiladali Because the function $\cos^{-1} x$ is not defined for $-x$ for $0 \leq x \leq \pi$
For a function to be odd or even we have to have $f(-x)$ and $f(x)$ defined
15:41
Did you figure it out? @topologicalorientablesurface
@AlessandroCodenotti scacchi?
Nah not now
I'm typing a proof for my thesis
15:58
@Balarka are you around?
im asharp
lol
Sanity check, I have a countable simplicial complex $K$, I want to realize $|K|$ as a subspace of $\ell^2$ because reasons
Wtf
Why @Alessandro
@LeakyNun Ohoho I see what you have there
Not going there
16:03
The way to go about it is to put every vertex on a different element of the standard orthogonal basis and then start going "if I have an edge between two vertices, then I take convex combinations of the corresponding basis vectors. If I have a face between 3 edges then I take convex combinations of the 3 vertices etc.", right?
@BalarkaSen Because I want $|K|$ to come with an easy to work with metric I think
I'm deciphering a proof of Gromov, so this $\ell^2$ business is clearly the best way to do things
@AlessandroCodenotti Yeah this sounds right to me
Wait, are you sure that the faces won't self-intersect in that way
Yeah I see it now.
OK
Because the interior points of different faces have at least a different nonzero coordinate
Right.
This is just the usual embedding of a finite simplicial complex inside the full simplex of equal number of vertices inside $\Bbb R^{|V|}$
And taking a direct limit thereof
Right, but I really care about having the $\ell^2$ metric here
Got it.
The result by Gromov is that $X$ has asymptotic dimension $\leq n$ iff for all $\varepsilon>0$ there is a uniformly cobounded $\varepsilon$-Lipschitz map into a simplicial complex, the idea is that you start with a nice cover of the space given by asymptotic dimension $\leq n$ and then you map $X$ to the nerve of the cover by sending points in a single set of the cover to a vertex, things in two of them to the corresponding edge etc.
16:09
But having picked this metric on $|K|$ makes it easier to check Lipschitzness and coboundedness
Of course that makes sense
It's obviously $\varepsilon$-Lipschitz in the standard simplicial metric (since you're collapsing small open sets in the cover to points), but I see it's an issue to write that down lol
Good idea to work in $\ell^2$
yo, is $\Bbb R^{3,1}$ a symmetric space. Why or why not?
What's the standard simplicial metric exactly?
Every face is isometric to the standard $n$-simplex
16:11
Just like the graph metric but higher dim
What a very Gromov idea
He was the one to come up with all of this stuff
Any suggestions on an introductory text for cobordism stuff ?
lmao someone clicked my link and joined
@BalarkaSen
and made no moves
16:24
oh that was me I thought that mochi had actually done it
notme
Lol @geocalc
trollz
@BalarkaSen how about correspondence?
I've invited you
@Knight please is there a relation with the function cos ?
16:31
@LeakyNun accepted
16:57
@AlessandroCodenotti yup
Hello all!!
We know what $x\notin A$ express. I am wondering if this proposition: $\neg(x\in A)$ can be proven or is a definition which is an equivalence from the first one, or perhaps is a property called "Negation equivalence". What do you think? Thanks!!
@manooooh The first is just a shorthand for the second
17:19
@topologicalorientablesurface good. That is known as the lebesgue number lemma by the way
17:32
@TobiasKildetoft thanks for the quick answer!! Okay, so "shorthand" means "equivalence", right?
No, equivalence is a formal concept
So what is the meaning of "shorhand"
shorthand means we invent a new piece of notation for convenience
Oh, that's nice
And $\neg(x\in A)$ is a property or definition?
That way, we get to form readable statements that don't end up being several pages long
It is a statement
which can be true or false
17:34
So it is not a proposition, unless we know which $x$ is and which $A$ is, right?
$x\not\in A$ is defined to mean the same thing as $\lnot(x\in A)$
@Thorgott thanks! A student asked "How do I prove that the complement of the negation (of a set) is the same as the negation of the proposition?", so I ran into your help
Oh I'm going to ask a silly question. So for example if we have to show that $A\subseteq A\cup B$, we all know that we start from for all $x$, $x\in A$. Then $x\in A\lor x\in B$, hence $x\in A\cup B$. This "$x\in\text{some set}$", all of them are NOT consider a proposition?
18:08
@BalarkaSen @AlessandroCodenotti world champion defeated
Guys question: suppose we have to prove $C\subseteq A\cup B\to(C\setminus B)\subseteq A$. Is the same as?: $$C\subseteq A\cup B\to\forall x((C\setminus B)\subseteq A)\tag{1}$$ or?: $$\forall x(C\subseteq A\cup B\to(C\setminus B)\subseteq A)\tag{2}$$
damn @Leaky
@BalarkaSen hype
What is negation of a set, @manooooh?
And how are you writing a $\forall x$ sentence in which $x$ never appears again?
@TedShifrin $\overline{A}=A'=\mathcal{U}\setminus A=\{x\mid x\in\mathcal{U}\land x\notin A\}=\{x\notin A\}$
18:21
And you don't start with "for all $x$, $x\in A$" unless $A$ is your universe.
So negation = complement. But you said complement of the negation?
G'day, a @Balarka, @Leaky
Hi @Ted!
18:37
Suppose a polyhedron's dihedral angles are all right angles. Must the faces be parallel to some coordinate axes?
@Akiva Uh, what about like a cube but a diamond
I mean some coordinate axes, like you can rotate them
Oh upto rotation OK
Cool q
18:47
what dimension?
3D
(I know the answer FWIW)
whats the answer
I think you could use duals for this
No @BalarkaSen
Physics lovers try this one
nobody is a physics lover here
5
@akiva can't you just unpack the polyhedron using the net
hmm
okay, so take the net of the cube. then all faces are parallel to the euclidean planes y-axis. all angles are right angles as well
Might have more luck over at the physics SE chat (the h bar)
19:05
this is the only euler platonic polyhedron with all dihedral angles being right angles and therefore. Now gotta extend this to non-regular case
okay I think the answer is yes akiva
wait no it's gotta be no
because if you embed the cube into $\Bbb R^2$ via the net and look at the preservation of the dihedral angles. This is the only polyhedron that preserves the angles after embedding into $\Bbb R^2$
the dodecahedron net does not work
19:34
@geocalc33 I don't understand what you're doing
The dihedral angles are the angles between the faces. How can you see them from the net?
DogAteMy, how is the semester going?
Wow
I just discovered $\varpi$
Who in the heckery would ever use that
(the code is \varpi)
Spivak uses it all over his grad diff geo text.
That being the Comprehensive Introduction?
Yup. At least I remembered it from there.
I see @Ted. Strange
He uses it (sometimes?) for principal bundle projections.
He even did it in chalk on the blackboard, as I recall from the dim recesses of my memory.
Did you ever get a response to your answer on that locally flat thing?
19:54
Yeah the person accepted the answer after a brief annoyance about a topology issue
I am editing the answer to provide the geometry anyway
Don't want to be a dishonest Thurstonite
Cool :)
say you have a compact 2-manifold that evolves, and satisfies a differential equation.
for example bessel functions on a disk satisfying the bessel differential equation.
once you solve your diff eq. then it's great. but what if at the boundary of the disk, the diff eq is undefined because the oscillations just blow up so to speak
20:12
Use a mollifier?
(I remember there being some PDE arguments that used mollifier functions to smooth things out on boundaries)
why is $\varpi$ coded as varpi ?
How is it a $\pi$ ?
The top part is the same
$\tau$ That's weird I'd expect it to be a \vartau if anything
does compactness in general topological spaces always imply sequential compactness?
@BalarkaSen this is unreal, Hikaru now has 7500 viewers live on Twitch due to both the pandemic and the xQc effect
and the fact that it's Sunday night
20:24
@BalarkaSen oh, but its true for second countable hausdorff spaces right?
@topologicalorientablesurface second countable compact Hausdorff spaces are metrizable and in metrizable spaces compactness and sequential compactness are equivalent
@BalarkaSen oh alright, I didn't know they were metrizable
Urysohn metrizability states that second countable regular spaces are metrizable. Compact Hausdorff spaces are regular
Normal, even
I didn't know about uryshon. Thanks! @BalarkaSen
21:10
Let $X$ be a topological space. $A\subseteq X$ is connected if and only if for any disjoint, open sets $U,V\subseteq X$, we have $A\subseteq U\cup V$ implies $A\subseteq U$ or $A\subseteq V$.
Is this true?
What do you think?
I think yeah, but i'm unable to show forward direction
Well, what does it mean for $A$ to be connected?
@Thorgott can be expressed as the disjoint union of two, non empty open sets
which implies $U\cap A=\varnothing$ or $V\cap A$ = $\varnothing$
If $A\subseteq U\cup V$ then $A=(U\cup V)\cap A$ = $(U\cap A) \cup (V\cap A)$
can't*
21:20
then $A\subseteq V$ or $A\subseteq U$
okay got it
nice
yup, I mean't can't. oops
21:31
alright, for the backwards direction, I suppose for a contradiction, $A$ is disconnected, so $A=U_A\cup V_A$ where $U_A\cap V_A=\varnothing$ and $U_A=U\cap A$ and $V_A=V\cap A$ for some open sets $U,V$ in $X$
So, $A\subseteq U\cup V$
yo sanity check, if you have a solution to a d.e. of the form $f(x)=g(x)h(x)j(x)$ what tools can you use to build back up to the d.e.?
22:16
I am sick of this Riemannian shit
I am estimating all day
finally! Let's do some honest ggt
Everything is a 4th order Taylor series
I dunno GGT man it's scary
But it's beautiful
True
I mean the results in Riemannian geometry are awesome. But trying to read a proof of one and my eyes are rolling off the sockets sideways and dangling off my face
lol
I don't know any Riemannian geometry
And I'm fine with that
22:35
Let $X$ be a topological space. $A\subseteq X$ is connected if and only if for any disjoint, open sets $U,V\subseteq X$, we have $A\subseteq U\cup V$ implies $A\subseteq U$ or $A\subseteq V$.
hints for backwards direction?
I suppose $A$ is disconnected. So, $A$ can be expressed as the disjoint union, of two non-empty open sets, $U_A,V_A$ i.e. $A=U_A\cup V_A$ In particular, $U_A=U\cap A$ and $V_A=V\cap A$ where $U, V$ are open in $X$. So $A\subseteq U\cup V$.
I think you want to assume that $A$ can be expressed as such a disjoint union (and ultimately derive a contradiction)
You have $A\subseteq U\cup V$, now apply the hypothesis
@Thorgott I can't apply the hypothesis
$U$ and $V$ may not be disjoint
right?
That was the idea
I can't push through 2 pages of calculations
I suck
Going to watch Twin Peaks instead and try to work it out on my own afterwards. This is horrible
23:10
ohh, I see the issue now
a little bit of googling reveals the implication is apparently false
Hello! Can somebody look at this one:
https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/3645564/is-it-true-that-gamma-lambdatm-cong-lambda-gammatm
I'm not good at coming up with good questions for this site so I'll throw my newest question out here: is there such a thing as an inverse cofinality function? What I mean is that if $cf(\aleph_\omega)$ goes to $\aleph_0$, is there a function from $\aleph_0$ to the next cardinal that is cofinal with $\aleph_0$, and so on? So we would have $icf(\aleph_0) = \aleph_\omega$ and then the next number in the sequence would be a number that is cofinal with $\aleph_\omega$.
@SergeyDylda It seems false to me, but I could be being stooopid.
@Thorgott what would be a counter example?
because on main, im told its right
23:25
For example, there is a global nowhere-vanishing $2$-form on $S^2$, but it cannot be written as the wedge product of two global $1$-forms. Ah, but it can be written as the sum of such, using partitions of unity. So this makes me think what you said should work in the smooth category but not in the analytic/holomorphic category.
Notice that nLab does this only in the smooth category. What they say is the definition of the deRham complex is not the way I've ever seen it. And in the holomorphic category, you should be able to write down a counterexample easily.
Quick question, in the assertion "A module $M$ over a commutative ring with $1$ is flat iff every relation on $M$ is trivial", what is the definition of a "trivial relation"?
I came up with this when reading Lemma 10.38.11, Stacks Project.
@TedShifrin Oh, okay. That makes more sense, it seems kind of confusing what's written on nLab, I'll try to research this more.
Yeah, it takes partitions of unity to make local things global so that their definition works. I don't like it.
Do you want me to post a counterexample in the holomorphic/algebraic category? I can work one out.
In fact, I guess I know a simple example.
Would appreciate if you could, you can post it as an answer to my question and I'll mark it answered.
23:39
OK, will do shortly.
Ted, I have a potentially non-question. I forget how the topological degree proof of the fundamental theorem of algebra goes, but something along the lines of letting $p(z) = \sum_{i=0}^n. a_i z^i$; lifting $p$ to. $\hat{p}$ by letting $\hat(p)(\infty) = \infty$, we get a continuous mapping. $\hat{p}: S^2 \rightarrow S^2$. Finally, $\hat{p}(z)$ is homotopic to $\hat{z}^n$, the latter being $n$ to $1$, thus the prior having the same degree, thus hitting $0$ in the codomain $n$ times.
But IIRC, there was a $S^2 \setminus \{0\}$ somewhere?
You're confusing two proofs.
The degree proof on $S^2$ is one. The other is the winding number proof mapping to $\Bbb C-\{0\}$, where you homotop to $z^n$ on a large circle.
I need to homotop in the degree proof too, no?
But I don't think you need to miss anything there. You're not arguing that a winding number is conserved.

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