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02:00 - 19:0019:00 - 23:00

02:29
Does someone mind checking this? I want to make sure I'm understanding this inverse image stuff :P
02:54
@Captain: Yes, correct. So my question for you to ponder — who behaves better, images or inverse images? (Finish some more exercises first.)
@TedShifrin I think inverse images behave better tbh. The intersection equality works both ways.
at least it seems to
 
1 hour later…
04:28
Any one know much about Jacobi Symbol?
 
3 hours later…
07:45
@Perturbative I just wanted to mention that Lectures on the h-Cobordism Theorem is slowly getting closer to 14 days of inactivity, after which it might get frozen. (I do not know whether you want to keep room or whether it is already abandoned.)
08:29
Quick question: I'm trying to show that a subgroup $\Gamma$ of a topological vector space $H$ is discrete. I have a compact set $X$ and $X \cap \Gamma$ is finite. Why can I conclude from the finiteness of $X \cap \Gamma$ that $\Gamma$ is discrete?
08:43
@EdwardEvans Translate $X\cap\Gamma$ around to cover $\Gamma$
oh nice
learning point set topology through ANT is a vibe
also morning @Alessandro
the new semester started today, but I have no lectures lol
Same
I'll have one tomorrow though
yeah algebra 2 starts tomorrow, and then wednesday is functional analysis time
09:13
hi, anyone knows the actual name for the double cross product method to obtain orthogonal vectors? it's not gram schmidt right?
Anonymous
09:52
Is there a simple way to see that there are only $p^2$ solutions to the 2-cocycle identity $c(b_2,b_3) - c(b_1 b_2,b_3) + c(b_1,b_2 b_3) - c(b_1,b_2) = 0$ where $c: C_p \times C_p \to \Bbb Z/p\Bbb Z$?
Anonymous
($p$ is a prime.)
10:59
0
Q: Orthogonal projection of cube

maths studentIf you replace our unit cube by a cube of side length $a$, what is the relationship between the area of its orthogonal projection onto the $x y$ -plane and the lenglh of its orthogonal projection onto the $z$ -axis? In other words, write the area as a function of the length.

11:12
@mathsstudent The side length of a cube of length $a$ is $a$ and the area of each face of the cube is $a^2$ an the volume is $a^3$
@EdwardEvans I am confused, if $X$ is finite then $X\cap \Gamma$ is always finite no matter what $\Gamma$ is, right?
$X$ isn't finite, but compact
What do you know about $X$? If all you know is that it is compact then this can't work, it could be finite for example
Is this a printed error?
$X$ is compact and a neighbourhood of $0$ lol
@CroCo What is that?
@EdwardEvans Oh I see :D
11:18
Lie Derivative
@MaximilianJanisch Lie Derivative
:) and I guess what @Alessandro meant was that I can always shrink $X$ so that the intersection of $X$ and $\Gamma$ only contains $0$, and then just move this around by elements of $\Gamma$ ?
@MaximilianJanisch It seems it is missing -2x_1x_2 term
@CroCo You are right (even though I don't know the context)
You can do it directly with your $X$, you want to use that $X$ has nonempty interior otherwise the Baire category theorem won't let you cover everything by translates of $X$
You do need some more argument than I thought earlier
I think that's the correct idea but it needs to be written down carefully
@MaximilianJanisch I'm askin' about the multiplication solely. Weird because in the errata list, nothing about this.
11:21
Yeah, the lecturer says "since $X \cap \Gamma$ is finite and $X$ is a neighbourhood of $0$, we can always shrink $X$ so that the intersection of $X$ and $\Gamma$ is $0$.. thus $\Gamma$ discrete"
that's poorly written but
lol
Let f(x) =
\begin{cases}
x, & \text{if $x$ is rational} \\
1-x, & \text{if $x$ is irrational}\\
\end{cases}. Does $\ f$ assume every value between $\ 0$ and $\ 1$?
@ManjoyDas What do you think?
i think yes
because f is injective
but how to prove it onto mapping?
or can i use Darboux theorem?
Is the domain $[0,1]$ ?
domain is R to R
11:25
So if $x\in\mathbb R$ is rational then $f(x)=x$
And if $x\in\mathbb R$ is irrational then $f(1-x)=x$
yes
no
given that f(x)=1-x if x is irrational
and f(x)=x if x is rational
Yes then $f(1-x)=1-(1-x)=x$ for $x$ irrational
So $f$ is surjective
@MaximilianJanisch what is orthogonal projection onto the xy -plane of cube is it area of one face of cube and what about orthogonal projhection on z-axis
@mathsstudent I interpreted it as that
Only you know what you meant to say :)
But what about orthogonal projection on z axis?
11:29
Well if you take the projection $\pi:\mathbb R^3\to\mathbb R, (x,y,z)\mapsto z$
Then $\pi([0,a]^3)=[0,a]$. If you want you can embed this into $ \mathbb R^3$ as $$\{(0,0,z):z\in[0,a]\}$$
@MaximilianJanisch so you mean if y is irrational, then y=1-(1-y)=f(1-y) and if y is rational then y=f(y) in either case there is a pre image of y and hence surjective?
@ManjoyDas yes
Note that if $y$ is irrational then so is $1-y$, that is needed in my argument
@MaximilianJanisch got it. thanks
$X := \lbrace x \in \Bbb R^n : \lvert x \rvert \leq c \rbrace$, and $X \cap \Gamma$ is finite for every $c > 0$, so in particular as $c \to 0$ we get $X \cap \Gamma = \lbrace 0 \rbrace$, and then $\gamma + X \cap \Gamma = \lbrace \gamma \rbrace$, so we isolate every point of $\Gamma$ .. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I'm half-guessing my way through some of the topological arguments
\text { Let } P=\left\{\left(m^{2}+1\right)^{1 /(k+1)}: m \in \mathbb{Q}, k \in \mathbb{N}\right\} . \text { Let } g:[0,1] \rightarrow P \text { be a } function. Prove that there exist $x, y \in[0,1]$ such that $x \neq y$ and $g(x)=g(y)$
Seems to be we have to show map is not injective.
11:32
@mathsstudent you'll wanna put some $ signs at the start and end of that
Let $P=\left\{\left(m^{2}+1\right)^{1 /(k+1)}: m \in \mathbb{Q}, k \in \mathbb{N}\right\} .$ Let $g:[0,1] \rightarrow P$ be a function. Prove that there exist $x, y \in[0,1]$ such that $x \neq y$ and $g(x)=g(y)$
@EdwardEvans What do you mean by "as $c\to 0$" ? Are you looking at $$\bigcap_{c>0} X_c\cap\Gamma$$ ?
@mathsstudent $P$ is countable, $[0,1]$ is not
no, but $X \cap \Gamma$ is finite for ALL $c > 0$, so I can just make the neighbourhood arbitrarily small
Oh you are saying there is a $c>0$ such that $X_c\cap\Gamma=\{0\}$ ?
Ya I got that but how write it formally @MaximilianJanisch
11:35
Guess so
And by the way why P is countable
@mathsstudent The usage of a pen is recommended 😏
@mathsstudent $P$ can be written as a union of countable sets
* countable union
So it is countable
@BalarkaSen Damn, Balarka is a blogger now
@MaximilianJanisch I am not getting it there are certainly some irrational numbers over there so how we can conclude it is uncountable.
@mathsstudent It doesn't matter what the elements are, they could be complex numbers, quaternions, sets themselves, ...
We have $$P=\bigcup_{k\in\mathbb N} \left\{\left(m^{2}+1\right)^{1 /(k+1)}: m \in \mathbb{Q}\right\}$$
11:42
so its 1/n th power of some rational number that is how set will look like
And for each $k\in\mathbb N$, $\left\{\left(m^{2}+1\right)^{1 /(k+1)}: m \in \mathbb{Q}\right\}$ is countable
So $P$ is the countable union of countable sets
So $P$ is countable
or note that $\mathbb{Q}\times\mathbb{N}\rightarrow P,\,(m,k)\mapsto(m^2+1)^{1/(k+1)}$ is a surjection from a countable set onto $P$, hence $P$ is countable
By the way @Thorgott
From the same Informatics lecture:
What a joke
@SayanChattopadhyay He lasts a year imo
It is the Corona inspiration
yikes
Where is this surely cool blog?
hiding all the anxiety and depression
12:36
@MaximilianJanisch Lol. You should have written something that was not linear (I wonder if the TA would have bothered to figure out what quadratic it was).
13:00
@feynhat I was able to figure it out. Devices per row is the square route of the closest perfect square that is greater than n devices. From there we can easily find rows. So basically this:
function getRows(n) {
   dpr = Math.ceil(Math.sqrt(n));
   return Math.ceil( n / dpr);
}
$r(x) = \lceil{(\frac{{x}{(\lceil{\sqrt{x}}})})}$
Try \lceil, \rceil
So you're saying that $b_n = \lceil \sqrt{n} \rceil$?
yeah, i give up with mathjax lol
well thanks for your help! cya o/
Let $\epsilon > 0$ then exists a $n \in \mathbb{N}$ such that $\epsilon > \frac{1}{n}$ this statement is usually justified by the archmedian axiom which states if $y>x>0$ then there exists $n \in \mathbb{N}$ such that $nx>y$. This might sound stupid. But could you please show me how this follows from the axiom? i just cant see it! i tried to put symbols and such but i just cant see how it follows from the axiom.
13:16
@MadSpaces Put $x = \epsilon$ and $y = 1$ in the axiom.
Yes i thought of this but this would mean 1 is bigger than epsillon!
If $1 < \epsilon$, you can choose $n=1$.
so then $\epsilon > 1 > 0$ and you say then $1 * 1 > \epsilon$? how does this deliever our result
Huh? I didn't say you have to use the axiom in the case where $\epsilon > 1$. Because, in that case, you have nothing to show!
Oh! in that case it works for all natural numbers! i see ! sorry!
13:31
Exactly.
Thank you for clarifying my misunderstanding!
@feynhat By now I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t know about quadratic interpolation
If $X$ is first countable then limit point compactness implies sequentially compact
right?
 
2 hours later…
15:14
@topologicalorientablesurface Its certainly true for metric spaces.
In that proof, replacing the balls of radius 1/n, by the local basis, should work.
I drew a picture to help me. $f(x,y)=\bigg(\exp(x),\exp(y)\bigg)$
$g$ and $h$ and $j$ are just euclidean transformations on $f$
and then at the bottom right corner, is the images of the different maps situated densely in a compact space known as the square
So now there are $4$ origins instead of $1$ so that sucks
15:42
@feynhat In metric spaces sequentially compact, limit point compact and compact are all equivalent so that's usually a bad indicator for understanding these statements. Take $\Bbb N \times \{0, 1\}$ where $\Bbb N$ is equipped with discrete topology and $\{0, 1\}$ is equipped with indiscrete topology. This is first countable, limit point compact (because lol) but not sequentially compact. Then sequence $(n, 0)$ has no convergent subsequence.
The reason your argument using local base fails is because it's not $T_1$
What is true is that in first countable spaces sequential compactness is equivalent to countable compactness (every countable open cover has a finite subcover). In $T_1$ spaces countably compactness is equivalent to limit point compactness. Combining, you get in first countable $T_1$ spaces, sequential compactness is equivalent to limit point compactness.
Who's the general topologist now
2
I just know this because I was asked to figure out all of this in homework a week ago
@BalarkaSen Mind = blown.
I was somewhat surprised
15:55
I was implicitly assuming that any neighborhood of the limit point will intersect the set in infinitely many points. This may not be true for non-T1 spaces.
That's right
I made the same mistake a while back
 
1 hour later…
16:57
OK, let's see if I can solve a @Ted exercise on the fly. Let $M, M' \subset \Bbb R^3$ be surfaces and $f : M \to M'$ a bijective map such that the line segment joining $P$ and $f(P)$ is tangent to $M$ and $P$ and $M'$ and $f(P)$, has constant length $r$ and the angle between the normals $\mathbf{n}_P$ and $\mathbf{n}_{f(P)}$ of the corresponding surfaces is constant $\theta$.
Choose moving frames $(\mathbf{e}_1, \mathbf{e}_2, \mathbf{e}_3)$ on $M$ and $(\mathbf{e}_1', \mathbf{e}_2', \mathbf{e}_3')$ on $M'$ such that $\mathbf{e}_1 = \mathbf{e}_1' = \vec{Pf(P)}$
Clearly $\mathbf{e}_2' = \cos(\theta) \mathbf{e}_2 + \sin(\theta) \mathbf{e}_3$ and $\mathbf{e}_3' = -\sin(\theta) \mathbf{e}_2 + \cos(\theta) \mathbf{e}_3$.
So $\omega_{12}' = \cos(\theta) \omega_{12} + \sin(\theta) \omega_{13}$. Need to be able to figure out the second fundamental form apparently.
is it obvious that such an $f$ must exist in the first place? I'm thinking of the case where $M,M'$ are concentric spheres
These are rare and known as Backlund transforms. Never happens if the surfaces are positively curved
ahh, nice
hello, a one to one map is an injective map or bijective ?
In fact, Ted's exercise is to prove the curvature of $M$ and $M'$ are both constant $-\sin^2(\theta)/r^2$
17:10
one-to-one means f(x1)=f(x2)->x1=x2
I'm aware of Backlund transformations from integrable systems stuff
Yeah haha
Sine-Gordon stuff
@lindaOiladali injective
injective
a "one-to-one correspondence", by contrast, is bijective
because it's one-to-one in each direction
@BalarkaSen huh, now i want to oknow what surfaces M,M' would look like
@BalarkaSen Gromov invented the notion of a "surjunction"
17:13
also it seems like one needs $\theta>0$
Evil man
Stupid name
Lmfao
what does it mean
to avoid having $M,M'$ be planes
It's some shit about cellular automata?!
@Semiclassical Yeah.
17:13
I need a small hint:
Suppose $\mathbf{g} : (a,b) \to \mathbb{R}^n$ is a differentiable parametrized curve and that for some point $\mathbf{p} \in \mathbb{R}^n$ we have $\lVert \mathbf{g}(t_0)-\mathbf{p} \rVert \le \lVert \mathbf{g}(t)-\mathbf{p} \rVert$ for all $t \in (a,b)$. Prove that $\mathbf{g}'(t_0) \cdot (\mathbf {t_0}-\mathbf{p})=0$.
Well, Backlund transforms leave pseudospheres invariant, that I know
I guess the easy to visualize case is $\theta=\pi/2$
my bad Gottschalk not Gromov
I don't care anymore
Gromov never gives bad names
As of 2014, it is still unknown whether every group is surjunctive
Fuck off
17:14
CAT spaces means Cartan-Alexandrov-Toponogov alternatively Compare Alexandrov Triangles
Coined by Misha
A+ names always
A CAT(n)-space is of course just an n-category in spaces
"google surjunction" "Did you mean: surf junction, surjection, superjunction, sub junction"
I'm quite stuck on that exercise
i think google agrees with your opinion
@Semiclassical No, no, I think you can get wild stuff from easy surfaces. This gives the nonlinear superposition law for sine-Gordon solitons, as far as I am aware
Trying to understand it better
17:17
hmm
@MikeMiller not finding any trace of 'surjunction' online at all
oh, surjunctive
How can I rigorously show that $\dot r^2 + \left(1-{r_0\over r}\right){1\over r^2} = cst$, $\dot r(0) = 0$, $r(0)={3\over 2}r_0$ implies $r = {3\over 2}r_0$ ?
@MikeMiller Gromov proved that sofic groups are surjunctive, but whether every group is sofic is also still open lol
(but I think people expect it to be false?)
Oh this is automatic group stuff?
Not sure, I don't know about automatic groups
Paul Plummer is the person you should ask
what is a sofic group
17:26
There's different definitions, they're groups that can be realized as subgroups of metric ultraproducts of symmetric groups with a particular distance
yikes
@AlessandroCodenotti are you in touch with Paul? i haven't talk to him in years
Sofic is apparently from finite in Hebrew
Gromov's definition is a group whose graph is initially subamenable apparently, but I don't know what that means
@BalarkaSen He comes here occasionally, we chatted at the beginning of March, he sent me some set theory notes
ah cool
@Simone I think you want $g^{\prime}(t_0)\cdot(g(t_0)-p)=0$. In this case, note that the assertion is trivial if $g(t_0)=p$, so we may assume this is not the case. Then, consider that $t_0$ is a minimum of the map $t\mapsto\lVert g(t)-p\rVert$.
17:29
yeah that's what I meant
@MikeMiller Good right
Gromov's terminology it seems
I've already thought of that, making $\mathbf{h}(t) = \mathbf{g}(t) - \mathbf{p}$
Hello again! I have a new problem
The geometric image is fairly nice: The assertion says that the tangent line of the curve at $t_0$ is orthogonal to the direction from $g(t_0)$ to $p$. It has to be, for if it weren't, there would be points on the tangent closer to $p$ than $g(t_0)$ and after just moving a little bit on the curve, the curve should still be close enough to the tangent that there is a point on it closer to $p$ than $g(t_0)$, contrary to the hypothesis.
@BalarkaSen No, then it should be a finite group discovered by Shelah
17:34
@Thorgott thanks, I'll think about what you said
Still can't believe I made you do a calculus exercise
I can't word this very well. Draw a picture of a circle as your curve and consider a point not on the circle as $p$, then the image should be clear.
That's one of Ted's exercises BTW
That's what I always do anyway
Haha everyone's doing Ted's exercises
the overarching influence
17:37
I never have
That's probably why I broke
You didn't go to the church of Geometric Approach
Anyone have any idea how to solve this?
@BalarkaSen Oh I should I have gotten this immediately. If $\mathbf{x}$ and $\mathbf{x}'$ are local coordinates on $M$ and $M'$ then $\mathbf{x}' = \mathbf{x} + r \mathbf{e}_1$. So $d\mathbf{x}' = d\mathbf{x} + r d\mathbf{e}_1 = \omega_1 \mathbf{e}_1 + (\omega_2 + r\omega_{12}) \mathbf{e}_2 + r \omega_{13} \mathbf{e}_3$
Oh no @Ted is here
17:42
anyone here familiar with nonlinear odes?
Quick hide
I heard what you said, a @Balarka. I'll get you!
I just figured out your Backlund exercise I think
Oh, cool. It's sneaky.
hi @Stan
@TedShifrin hey ted! how r u? :)
17:43
Hello Ted.
Salut, @Simone.
Basically I have one large rectangle, I need to find the largest smaller rectangle (in 16:9 ratio) that 3 of them can fit inside the large rectangle.
The exercise you're thinking about turns out to be important at the beginning of differential geometry, too.
Ted, your textbook is very challenging, but I'm learning a lot.
Yes, there are some challenging exercises in there ... but enough that are standard, I think.
17:45
Yeah, some are not so challenging.
Depending on ur perspective :')
Without meaning to be mean (pun intended for Balarka), this particular exercise is straightforward.
Which exercise? mine or his?
Yours :)
Ok XD
17:48
@TedShifrin Your standard of puns hardly deviate, I am aware
No, this was a Balarka-level one.
LOL, you win this round.
@TedShifrin did you ever made a "balls" pun in your lectures?
hi chat
Salut @Astyx
Hmm .... nah, I don't think so.
17:50
Like "it takes balls to study Topology"
Lol
That would be too bad
The whole point is it doesn't take balls to study topology, unlike analysis, though, right?
@JBis: You choose the largest $a$ that you can (and $b$ is determined), so $a$ has to be the smaller of $x/3$ and $16y/27$.
flips the off switch on Balarka
@TedShifrin Thanks. Can you explain this a bit more?
Did you mean to flip the off switch or flip the switch off?
Ok I am done
The largest $a$ that can fit is $x/3$. The largest $b$ that can fit is $y/3$, but $b$ is determined by $a$.
flips Balarka off
2
17:54
So why not smallest x/3 or y/3 and then find the other?
Because you need to take the ratio of the sides into account when making the comparison.
Let's forget the factors of $3$. Suppose you want a rectangle with $a:b=16:9$. What's the largest one that fits in the $x\times y$ rectangle?
Hi, demonic @Alessandro.
So $\omega_1' \mathbf{e}_1' + \omega_2' \mathbf{e}_2' = d\mathbf{x}' = d\mathbf{x} + rd\mathbf{e}_1 = \omega_1 \mathbf{e}_1 + (\omega_2 + r\omega_{12}) \mathbf{e}_2 + r\omega_{13}\mathbf{e}_3$. Plugging $\mathbf{e}_1' = \mathbf{e}_1$ and $\mathbf{e}_2' = \cos(\theta) \mathbf{e}_2 + \sin(\theta) \mathbf{e}_3$, I get $\cos(\theta) \omega_2' = \omega_2 + r\omega_{12}$ and $\sin(\theta) \omega_2' = r \omega_{13}$
@TedShifrin compare x and y. Which ever is smaller use that number as the either a or b and then find the other?
17:58
Well, suppose $y<x$. So you take $b=y$. But now it happens that $16b/9 > x$. What do you do next?
Anyway: thanks for the hints friends, @TedShifrin @Thorgott
Sounds like Balarka is delivering a soliloquy to me.
@Simone: I didn't give a hint. But I will point out that you'll always prefer to differentiate $\|x\|^2$ rather than $\|x\|$. I mean, sometimes you can't choose, but here you can.
@TedShifrin 16(y)/9 > x? and then you have an issue
Right.
$\omega_{13} = \sin(\theta)/r \cdot \omega_2' = \tan(\theta)/r \cdot (\omega_2 + r \omega_{12})$. That's what I needed to figure out
18:00
Ok
@Balarka: Why is that what you needed?
@TedShifrin so how would i do that?
So try what I said, @JBis.
@TedShifrin Because since $\omega_{12}' = d\mathbf{e}_1' \cdot \mathbf{e}_2'$, which if I plug in $\mathbf{e}_1' = \mathbf{e}_1$ and $\mathbf{e}_2' = \cos(\theta) \mathbf{e}_2 + \sin(\theta) \mathbf{e}_3$ I get $\omega_{12}' = \cos(\theta) \omega_{12} + \sin(\theta) \omega_{13}$, so if I have $\omega_{13}$ in terms of $\omega_2$ and $\omega_{12}$ I should be able to combine and compute Gaussian curvature by computing $d\omega_{12}'$ in terms of $d\omega_{12}$
And the above formula is precisely giving me $\omega_{13}$ explicitly aka computing the second fundamental form
What I said may have assumed $x>y$, @JBis. You might have to try switching the orientation of the rectangle, which I don't think I accounted for.
Oh, OK, @Balarka. I think I reduced everything to the original coordinates (as opposed to the prime).
18:06
I'm still a bit confused how you got to it. Could you explain a bit more?
Assuming $x>y$, take the largest value of $a$ so that (1) $3a\le x$ and (2) 3b=3(9a/16)\le y$.
@TedShifrin The prose would be a bit more artful.
Probably so, @MikeM.
April is the cruelest month / moving frames out of the dead land / ...
@TedShifrin (2) $b=(9a/16)\le y$.?
18:12
You specified $3b\le y$?
@Balarka: Channeling J Alfred Prufrock?
Close, The Waste Land
I love Prufrock as well
I have stopped reading anything outside of math completely. I should start again maybe
@TedShifrin ohhh, ok yeah that makes sense go on
Reading ain't never got no one anywhere in life.
That's why you can't write sentences, @Captain.
18:15
LOL
What a dunk
Why was that response so quick? XD
@TedShifrin ok i think i got it, thanks! spent hours on this. Going to test it.
@JBis: So you take the largest $a$ allowed by those two inequalities, @JBis. But, as I realized subsequently, maybe we need to turn the rectangle around (in case $x<y$) and take both $3a\le y$ and $3b=27a/16\le x$. Which case gives the larger value of $a$?
@Balarka: Do I get a point?
@TedShifrin ok i lost you again, why are we looking now for the larger value?
You wanted the largest rectangle. I'm just saying that you have to think about both ways of sticking the rectangle in the big one. $a$ lines up EITHER with $x$ OR with $y$. The answer will depend on the original ratio $x:y$.
18:21
ah, ok the rectangle must be 16:9 not 9:16
Right. Clearly if $y$ is much bigger than $x$, it's going to change the way you put the little rectangle in.
how would that effect it?
So you'll have two numbers to take the smaller of, another two numbers to take the smaller of, and then you want the larger of those two :P
$a=\max\big(\min(x/3,16y/27),\min(y/3,16x/27)\big)$. :)
if y is very large, x/3 will be smaller
If I have an differential equation $\dot r^2 + V(r) = E$, how can I show that if $\dot r(0) = 0$ and $r(0)$ is a critical point for $V$ then $r$ is constant ?
18:23
@BalarkaSen definitely
I apologize for not understanding, why do we need a second equation? If the boxes will always be 16:9?
@Astyx: Minimizing total $E$, right?
@JBis: We agreed that if $y>x$, you possibly need to turn the thing around.
E is constant
turn what around?
The little rectangle. Geez.
Go off and play with it.
So put in $r(t)$ and differentiate, @Astyx. What happens?
18:26
ok, thanks
Right, so this is saying that if you start at the bottom of the potential well, then you stay there.
I get $2\ddot r + V'(r) =0$
Well, you omitted a factor of $1/2$, I guess, on the KE.
Indeed
Your equation assumes $\dot r$ not identically $0$, I guess.
18:29
Yes, I divivded by $\dot r$ because if it is locally zero then it has to be zero everywhere, and that solves my problem
Wait. What?
Oh.
So, I think you can keep differentiating and conclude that all the derivatives of $r$ vanish at $0$.
If I start at the critical point and stay there for a small $\epsilon$, I will have to remain there all the time. So the only interresting case is if there's a "take off", ie if $\dot r$ is nonzero
You mean nonzero away from $t=0$.
Yes
But by continuity, the equation remains valid at $t=0$
So your equation says that $\ddot r(0) = 0$. Now differentiate again and you get the third derivative, etc.
18:34
My potential isn't 0 at all orders at the critical point
I don't think you need that, just $V'(r(0)) = 0$.
Unless I messed up.
If I differentiate again don't I get $\dddot r = \dot r V''(r)$ ?
YEs, but $\dot r=0$ at $0$.
Oh yes, sorry I got confused
So that solves it if $r$ is $C^\infty$
well, $C^\omega$.
18:36
What's that ?
real analytic
Ah yes, analytic was the term I was looking for
Thank you. Do you know if there's a way to prove it for non-analytic $r$ ?
Well, let's think a little bit more. Since energy is constant, if the kinetic energy increases, then $V(r)$ must decrease, so $r(0)$ is a (local) max of $V$. That says $V''(r)\le 0$. Aren't we just supposed to argue by uniqueness of solutions to ODE? Why is this so complicated?
And you mean non-analytic $V$.
@BalarkaSen And so ... ?
I assume he went to bed.
Four puns and out.
18:59
@TedShifrin I made a mistake. The last restriction is $b<=y$ not 3b. However, I was able to correct the equation you gave me. I tested it and it works thanks!!
Oh, cool. That's a little more interesting. Glad you got it.
02:00 - 19:0019:00 - 23:00

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