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20:29
no
C[x,y]/(x,y) = C so it's 1-dimensional!
x = y = 0 here
Oh so I can reduce it further
What about $\mathbb{C}[x,y]/(x,y)^2$?
what do elements there look like?
So $(x,y)^2=(x^2,y^2,xy)$...
So look at $x^2=y^2=xy=0$?
yes
Divide it all by either $y$ or $x$?
20:38
??
forget that
I don't know
19 hours ago, by Simple
Suppose $(X,\mathcal{S},\mu)$ is a measure space such that $\mu(X)<\infty$. Suppose $p,r$ are positive number with $p<r$. Prove that if $f:X\to[0,\infty)$ is an $\mathcal{S}$-measurable function such that $\int\,f^rd\mu<\infty$, then $\int\,f^pd\mu<\infty$.
if someone asks you to write down some elements of that ring
what would you write
trying to construct an example when $\mu(X)=\infty$
A counterexample to that statement for infinite measure spaces you mean? Hint: there are example in $\Bbb R$
20:41
So I'd take $f(x,y)\in \mathbb{C}[x,y]$ and then $f(x,y)+(x,y)^2$..
Stronger hint: what do you know about integrability of $x^{-s}$
Yes, I had tried to look at $e^x$
@TheTerriblePuddle yeah
what happens to the higher order terms (in this case - deg 2 or above) of f(x,y)?
@Simple Think about $x^{-s}$. Maybe on $[1,\infty)$ so not to worry about $0$
@loch The coefficients of the term goes up 1?
20:47
@AlessandroCodenotti ah, $f(x)=x^{-2}$
@Simple What about it?
uh
no
ok here are a bunch of elements

x + (x,y)^2, x^2 + y^3 + (x,y)^2, x + x^3 + xy^5 + (x,y)^2, y^2 + (x,y)^2, 3 + (x,y)^2

do you know which ones are the same ? why?
Let me just write for myself $x + (x,y)^2, x^2 + y^3 + (x,y)^2, x + x^3 + xy^5 + (x,y)^2, y^2 + (x,y)^2, 3 + (x,y)^2$
the integral of $f=x^{-2}$ from $1$ to $\infty$ is 1while $f=x^{-1}$ doesn't converges
No I don't know
20:50
@Simple Right. You can play around with the exponent to get examples for all $p$ and $q$
hmm
given an ideal I and a ring R

how do you know if two elements r+ I, r'+I are equal in R/I?
Oh I know now, I've to mod out right?
can you elaborate?
@AlessandroCodenotti thank you so much, I had played around with many functions that map to $[0,\infty)$ for a while
To your other question: $r$ and $r'$ are equivalent if $r-r'\in I$?
20:55
yes
@loch $a+I=b+I$ $\iff $a-b\in I$
@TheTerriblePuddle can you see how to tell if these elements are equal or not ?
(apply the definition)
Nothing seems equal to me
ABC
ABC
Guys I have a doubt

How this definition of Line Integrals $\int_a^b A(x(t),y(t)) \ x′(t)+B(x(t),y(t)) \ y′(t)dt$ is linked to concept of $F*cos(\theta) * ds$

The only thing that I CAN'T see is the $cos(\theta)$ in the first formula, where is this concept? How the first formula take the tangential component from curve?
It's thanks to derivation? If yes, why ?
21:00
there are 5 elements there
i claim that there are only 3 unique elements
I don't see it
ok let's just pick two of them
x + (x,y)^2
x + x^3 + xy^5 + (x,y)^2

i claim that these two are equal
How is $x^3\in (x,y)^2$
?
what do elements in the ideal (x^2,xy,y^2) look like?
I just generate them by x^2,xy and y^2...
21:08
what do you mean by generate?
Apply the operations
can you write that down formally
then you might want to read up the definition of an ideal generated by some elements first
And where do I find it?
21:14
What is the definition of an ideal?
take a ring maybe. quotient the ring by elements s.t. they respect absorption and closure
It's a subgroup, for every element in the ring and every element in the ideal the product is in the ideal
and of course Identity
OK, so if $x^2$ is in the ideal, why is $x^3$ in the ideal?
Oh because $x\in \mathbb{C}[x,y]$...
21:17
Right.
Now, why is $x^3+xy^3$ in the ideal?
Wait, it was wrong?
No, it was right. I typed no instead of now.
rehi, demonic @Alessandro
ABC
ABC
20 mins ago, by ABC
Guys I have a doubt

How this definition of Line Integrals $\int_a^b A(x(t),y(t)) \ x′(t)+B(x(t),y(t)) \ y′(t)dt$ is linked to concept of $F*cos(\theta) * ds$

The only thing that I CAN'T see is the $cos(\theta)$ in the first formula, where is this concept? How the first formula take the tangential component from curve?
It's thanks to derivation? If yes, why ?
Someone can help me here ?
21:21
@ABC: Write the integrand as a dot product.
I don't see it
You did half of it, @TheTerriblePuddle. What about the other half?
ABC
ABC
$\int_\alpha F(x,y) \cdot ds $ this? @TedShifrin
$y^2$ and $xy$ are in the ideal...
Is $ds$ a vector? I think $ds$ means element of arclength.
It's $F\cdot v$, where $v=dr/dt$ is velocity.
Finish, @TheTerriblePuddle.
21:24
So $xy^3$ is in the ideal and as $x^3$ is in the ideal then $x^3+xy^3$ is in the ideal.
ABC
ABC
I'm using definition of work so $ds$ is a vector
But you wrote an integral above with $ds$ in it, where that was a scalar.
Do not use it for both.
Or else write vector symbols.
ABC
ABC
Yes I'm sorry
My error
Is there not an easy way to think about generated ideals?
ABC
ABC
21:26
3 mins ago, by Ted Shifrin
It's $F\cdot v$, where $v=dr/dt$ is velocity.
This is the answer to my problem?
@EnjoysMath It's really convenient to treat things in an algebraic manner
So you're dotting $F\cdot v\,dt = F\cdot (ds/dt T)\,dt = F\cdot T\,ds$, @ABC. $T$ is the unit tangent.
@TheTerriblePuddle: That seemed easy enough to me.
Yes, algebra is the basis for all elegant proofs nowadays
Don't think I can contain it in my head
Think of it like linear combinations and span in linear algebra.
21:30
@EnjoysMath you know why nobody can successfully marry quantum mechanics and relativity?
@geocalc33 I'm not sure why they can't. Peer review process maybe
Likely they've already done it, but the paper isn't accepted same as was Einstein's special relativity paper
Hmm.. I'll give it a try
ABC
ABC
I dont' understand meaning of $T$ sorry, I never used this terms @TedShifrin
@EnjoysMath that's an interesting take :)
ABC
ABC
what is tangent unit?
21:33
So it's not a good goal to have. If you legitimately solve an open puzzle, you'll just get lost in the sands of time
Understanding others solutions though is fun and interesting
what?
So the thing I started with was to compute $\dim_\mathbb{C}(\mathbb{C}[x,y]/(x,y)^n)$ as a function of $n$, where $n$ is a positive integer.
Spacetime gives me energy!
it doesn't subtract it
@geocalc33 pick any open problem, solve it. And no one will care unless you're a celebrity already
@EnjoysMath it doesn't matter I don't want the recognition
21:34
You have to be connected with the right people in order to solve a problem
OK, @TheTerriblePuddle, so you wrote out the first cases to understand what's going on, I assume.
That's the problem, fix it. Make an publication site that is open to everyone
I veto that suggestion with all my power.
@EnjoysMath that's good I got an advisor for my research problem
That helps
21:36
@TedShifrin I wrote out $(x,y),(x,y)^2,(x,y)^3$
The internet is a powerful tool. People gladly moderate each other's math on MSE, why don't they step it up a notch
So what did you count to answer the question?
Yes, count. You have to give a basis and count it.
yeah so for $n=1$ it's $\{1\}$ right so dimension is one
21:38
Go on.
It's actually the equivalence class of $1$, by the way. I write that with bars.
I was just given that so I'm not sure. I'm not sure how to find this basis thing...
@geocalc33 If easy, open publication takes too much man power to support (peer review each crackpot entry). Then all proofs should be checked by a computer.
@EnjoysMath lol yeah
@TheTerriblePuddle: Have you had the prerequisites for this course?
That's what makes Coq, Isabelle, & Lean Prover neat
21:41
Yes...
You should go talk with your professor and get help filling in stuff you don't understand.
Quotient rings and basis for vector space should be solid background, not unknown.
ABC
ABC
I understand, thanks @TedShifrin

Good Evening!
Yippee, @ABC.
@EnjoysMath yeah
interesting
Anything else I can do?
21:48
@TheTerriblePuddle take notes on the chapter, and rewrite your notes, including proofs
Rewrite two full pages of notes every time you fill up two pages, then before an exam, rewrite all of your notes (or at some point in time)
And make sure you understand every word of the notes.
@EnjoysMath Ok
@TedShifrin That's the most difficult thing, I don't know whether I understand something or not
You may be in a course that's too advanced for you.
Every time I think I might understand something it happens that I don't
Well, the whole degree is too advanced for me then
If you understand it, you should be able to write out the basic proofs for yourself, not memorizing and copying. And you must be able to do concrete examples for every concept.
21:54
I realize I can't do it with anything
What degree are you doing?
Just math, third year
Undergraduate. You could be taking less abstract courses than things like Galois theory and commutative algebra.
I don't know where you are, but in the US most math majors never do anything like this.
Well my next course will be an introduction to logic
Do you have a faculty adviser who knows you and is keeping track of what you take and how you do?
21:58
Don't know, everybody else are doing what I'm doing
Wait. You don't consult with a faculty member about what you're taking and how you've done in preceding courses? Where I've taught, students have to get the adviser to sign a sheet approving the courses.
You shouldn't just do what "everyone else" is doing.
No, there is no such thing here.
Not everybody are doing what I'm doing but there are some..
That doesn't make it right for you. Clearly it's not.
You need to get advice from faculty who know you, who've taught you.
And what advice could they give me?
They can give better advice than I can or we can. If they've taught you they have some idea of what you can do successfully, and might suggest better courses for you.
22:05
Hmm I don't think they know
How many students are in these (advanced) courses?
Depends on the popularity of the course. Changes from year to year.
Come on, man. Approximately. 5-15, 25-30, or more?
Do you ever go to professors' office hours to get help?
22:10
If they have them, yes
They don't all have to have them?
Where are you in school?
No, but I don't think most of them would mind if you crash by their office at some time
Every place I've ever been faculty teaching courses have posted office hours, at least 3 a week.
Go bug the faculty.
Oh for every teacher who have had office hours it has been 1 a week, max.
Well, I have no idea where you are or what the culture is. But this is something very strange to me.
I have been at two large state universities and one private university in the US.
22:15
Maybe there is something I just don't know...
Talk to your friends, at least.
Yeah, about that
I barely have any
Atleast not on these courses
I think you should check carefully about office hours or email your professor(s) and ask for an appointment.
Ok, I'll do that
@TheTerriblePuddle with regards to your question on how to think about generated ideals, if you have a commutative ring with a 1, then a principal ideal, $(r)$ where $r\in R$ is simply $rR$
22:18
@topologicalorientablesurface Okay, that seems easy. But if it is not principal though...
@TheTerriblePuddle (S) where $S$ consists of $s_1,s_2...,s_n$ then for the same ring, $(S)=$\{$ $r_1s_1+...+r_ns_n : r\in R$ $\}$
@topologicalorientablesurface: Don't put so many dollar signs. It's crazy. Just put all of a math sentence in one set.
@TedShifrin sorry.
If you think about $R$ as a module over itself, ideals are submodules, so the situation should be pretty much the same as for vector spaces and vector subspaces: you take a generating set and do finite linear combinations
@topologicalorientablesurface Okay, I think I can wrap my head around it
thanks
22:23
@TheTerriblePuddle Try to prove it. See why having a 1 is necessary.
@TheTerriblePuddle its somewhat analogous to the span of a set in linear algebra, if that helps
How should the proof be?
@TheTerriblePuddle what have you tried?
nothing really
Try doing it for the principal ideal case, then see if you can extend it for the finite case
I think induction
should do the trick
22:29
Hey @Alessandro :)
Okay, I don't really get what I'm starting with or what I should end with
@The Terrible Note, if you don't have a unity member in the ring (multiplicative identity) then $a$ may not be in $aR$. Do you see why? can you find a counterexample?
just got back from a friend's birthday celebration lol
@EdwardEvans Do you have some intuition about injective modules to share with me?
nahhhh I'm taking alg 2 this semester and that's where that will turn up lol
apologies
22:30
@topologicalorientablesurface yeah I see that $a\notin aR$ if $R$ does not contain the mult. identity
@EdwardEvans I see, I'll find some algebras to bug you with, don't worry :P
that's fine, it's good practice for me :)
@TheTerriblePuddle good. Note that $(a)$ is the intersection of all ideals containing $a$. Is $aR$ an ideal in this case? Prove it.
Do you see why this is step is required?
No...
It's late and I had this assignment I was trying to work on
I appreciate you trying to teach me though
I'm reading some weird stuff that I guess could be called set theoretic algebra
22:37
@TheTerriblePuddle if $R$ has unity, $a\in aR$. If $aR$ is an ideal then $(a) \subseteq aR$.
because $(a)$ is the intersection of all ideals containing $a$
@Alessandro orly
Got to go @TheTerriblePuddle goodluck. If you have more questions please don't hesistate to ask, and if I can help, I will.
@topologicalorientablesurface Thanks, appreciate it. Do I just type your name in the chat or?
@TheTerriblePuddle yeah. Just type in chat.
my name
@Alessandro a conference for scholarship holders in Karlsruhe got cancelled because of Coronavirus :(
22:42
@EdwardEvans Yeah there's this nice book called "almost free modules: set theoretic methods"
I also asked a related MO question yesterday
@EdwardEvans I'm a bit worried by the fact that Germany is where Italy was around 8-9 days ago as number of cases, but we were already closing down all schools then while Germany doesn't care
yeah it's weird, but I feel like there isn't that much cause for concern; the generic argument "Flu kills thousands every year!" seems legit to me
ehhhh. flu kills thousands because millions are exposed to it
it's not just a matter of "how many people die" but what fraction of those exposed get sick, and what fraction of those die
fair
I just
think it's being blown out of proportion
22:49
a lot of it is based on speculation
it's just that the worst case scenarios are not pretty
it's also better to be proactive i guess
Yeah, a lot of the numbers coming out of China are fudged also
@Loch also true
also "On 3 March, University of Zurich announced six confirmed cases of coronavirus at the Institute of Mathematics. As of 5 March, there are 10 confirmed cases at University of Zurich, at least 7 at the I-Math and 1 at the Center of Dental Medicine.[20]"
my own bias is that I find the talk about handwashing etc to be rather like trying to close the barn after the horse has bolted
if you're in a situation where you have to worry about handwashing, then you're probably already in a situation where the likelihood of getting exposed regardless is pretty good
23:13
It's airborne
movie quote
23:40
> Undergraduates who live on [MIT] campus must begin packing and moving out of their residences by this Saturday, March 14. This also applies to students in our FSILGs. You will be required to leave by noon on Tuesday, March 17. For first-years, sophomores and juniors: Please pack your belongings and make plans to travel home or to another location off-campus as if you do not expect to return here until the fall semester.
yikes
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