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05:00
Too old and it's no longer considered "food"
unless there's something perfectly preserved in an Egyptian tomb or something
$\ell_1 = (\ell_1 + \ell_2 + \cdots) - S(\ell_1 + \ell_2 + \cdots)$
That's why it's a boundary yo
The first question was to show that $S(x)-x$ had nonzero kernel. This was to show that it's surjective
In general you could do $x+S(x)+S^2(x)+\dotsb$ I guess
It's also direct by running $H_1(\Bbb H) \to H_1(\Bbb H) \to H_1(T_f) \to H_0(\Bbb H) \to H_0(\Bbb H)$
The last map is zero, so $H_1(T_f)$ surjects onto $\Bbb Z$... I guess I don't know why it's actually an isomorphism
So scratch that
05:04
It's an isomorphism because $I-f:H_1(\Bbb H)\to H_1(\Bbb H)$ is surjective
in that notation
Yes, but I was trying to prove $I - f$ is surjective from that sequence
That would have to use something specific about $f$ and $\Bbb H$
I don't think it's true for arbitrary spaces and maps
Yeah it ain't
$\dfrac1{1-S}$ lol
Inverse map of $1-S$
Haha nice
05:06
$\sum S^n$
I feel like there should be a way to generalize the Hawaiian earring construction
What is the map $H_1(T_f) \to H_0(X)$ again? You take a 1-cycle in $T_f$, then take a cross-section to get a 0-cycle on $X$, yeah?
Probably
Say $G_n$ is a sequence of groups, and $G_n=\pi_1(X_n)$ where $X_n$ is a sequence of spaces
Form the "Hawaiian bouquet" of the $X_n$ by joining them at their basepoints and saying any neighborhood of the basepoint must engulf all but finitely many $X_n$
Call that $X$
Then is $\pi_1(X)$ determined by the $G_n$?
If so, I'd call it the "Hawaiian product" of the groups
Ask Brazas he'd know
'cause that's what happens when you put me in charge of naming things
I think this is what they call the free $\sigma$-finite product of $G_n$'s
05:12
I like my name better
Wait hold on
Google isn't showing me anything called a "sigma finite product"
Nah nevermind
I wonder if $\pi_2$ of the "spherical Hawaiian earring" (subset of R^3 that's smaller and smaller spheres put together at a basepoint) is the same as $\pi_1$ of the original
Too hard for me
Cannot be so
It's abelian
05:16
Oh right duh
Maybe it's the abelianization
It's the same as $H_2$. I think Baratt-Milnor computes it
They also prove $H_3$ is nontrivial for the spherical guy
It should just be $\Bbb Z^{\Bbb N}$
You should be able to do the same infinite shenanigans as in the original
Oh wait
Infinite product, not infinite direct sum
Yeah I believe that
The infinite commutator (1+2-1+3-2+4-3+5-4+…) probably dies
Makes me wonder why $H_1(\Bbb H)$ is fundamentally different from $\Bbb Z^{\Bbb N}$
05:22
Incidentally
Actually the spherical Hawaiian guy is the reduced suspension of $\Bbb H$ is it not
Is the Hawaiian earring homeomorphic to an infinite snowman?
Where the sum of the diameters converges so you just put them on top of each other
and put the basepoint at the top
And $H_n(\Sigma X) \cong H_{n-1}(X)$, so I wonder where I am wrong
@Akiva The earring becomes disconnected with $\Bbb N$ components if you remove the vertex
Oh not homeomorphic but homotopy equivalent
is what I meant
who cares about Hawaiian earring, let’s visualize Mobius strip x [0,1]
05:24
That's easy
@Akiva Hm.
It's easy if you live in the right 3-manifold
There was a Mathologer video on two-sided Möbius bands
(such as for example the middle slice of your space)
You live in $\Bbb{RP}^2 \times S^1$ by any chance
'Cause in a nonorientable manifold you can do that
@BalarkaSen Nah I like my space comfy and Euclidean
$K^2\times S^1$?
The Klein bottle admits a flat metric, right?
are the half-twist and three-halves-twist Mobius strips homeomorphic?
05:28
@BalarkaSen Maybe that equation makes assumptions on $X$
No @LeakyNun
@LeakyNun Yes
Akiva is wrong
What you see is what you get
so there are a lot of [0,1] bundles on S^1?
Of course not silly
05:29
and in fact there's a regular homotopy from one to the (mirror image of) the other
I am just confusing you
@BalarkaSen ??
Same number of boundary components and genus
Cut, twist, glue back together
I know, of course :P
Why would you just go on the Internet and tell lies
so they’re only not ambient isotopic
05:30
That's correct
Boundary components link nontrivially
Or well
Right the boundaries are the unknot and trefoil
you two are too fast
The three half twisted Mobius strip is the "wrong Seifert surface" of the trefoil
@AkivaWeinberger anarchy!!
Dunno why Seifert surfaces have to be orientable, maybe the theorems aren't nice otherwise
05:33
@AkivaWeinberger You're right! $H_n(SX) \cong H_{n-1}(X)$. But $SX$ and $\Sigma X$ need not be homotopy equivalent
You need good neighborhood of the equatorial $X$ to do Mayer-Vietoris, which $SX$ has but $\Sigma X$ doesn't
In case of $X = \Bbb H$
It's interesting that they're not homotopy equivalent and have different $H_2$s
@BalarkaSen have you watched the video?
which video
05:36
I have not
Ah the one I mentioned
Yeah the thumbnail says it really, that space in the middle is a two-sided Möbius band
they like created a Mobius strip with 1 edge and 2 faces
I have no idea what this even means mathematically
'cause orientability is an intrinsic property but 1-sidedness is an extrinsic one
what?
1-sided means throwing the hypersurface away leaves you with one connected component
05:38
Orientability depends on the space, 1-sidedness depends on the way it's embedding in a surrounding space
@BalarkaSen At least, locally
Right
On a tubular neighborhood if you demand
what 2-manifold-with-boundary is that?
The question is if its neighborhood looks like a product with [-1,1], or a twisted product with [-1,1]
@LeakyNun Is what?
(1 edge is normal, mind)
that strange Mobius strip
It's homeomorphic to any other Möbius strip
05:40
You're embedding a Mobius strip into something else
aha, it isnt orientability
rather it is the fact that a tubular neighbourhood looks like a trivial (0,1)-bundle
that’s what makes it have 2 faces
Why do you watch videos by these science nutcases
They're kinda dull lol
'Cause I told him to
what’s wrong with mathologer
Also I like Mathologer
05:43
at least it isn’t numberphile :p
He sucks that's what
Numberphile sucks balls lol
They're both good but kinda dry
That's why you watch them at 2x speed
they were entertaining when I was in high school that’s what
LOL
Why are you still subscribed that's what
I liked watching numberphile
05:44
Numberphile can be more or less entertaining depending on who they're interviewing
I mean you only find them boring because you already know the stuff
I like numbers
Nah I just don't like these pop science enthusiasts
I enjoyed pop science
The only channel in that realm I like is veritasium
He's actually fun
That's fine, I guess. I usually only watch them if the title catches my eye
05:45
But there are better channels
how about pbs infinite series
I felt that one was a bit weird
i like 3blue1brown
05:45
Same
3B1B is good
I give him moneys
(I'm subscribed to him on Patreon)
nice
that’s a bit too far for me
idk
05:46
I'll tell you the channels I am subscribed to
he opened my eyes to the essence of linear algebra and calculus
1) ContraPoints
2) hobestobe (RIP)
on YouTube, to be clear, right?
yeah
Ah here's a proper science channel
The Thought Emporium
It's beyond good
Ok then there's theneedledrop and a bunch of meme channels
I also like LEMMiNO
One of these days I'm gonna make math expositional videos
I promised something here like a year or two ago
05:49
Do math and stream it on twitch
Hah lol
One of these days I'm gonna prove to the world
that alternating projections of knots have minimal crossing number
Hey do you know about bridge numbers
I've heard the definition but don't know anything about them
@BalarkaSen what is ContraPoint?
05:53
The theorem I mentioned is one of the only theorems that made me think "Why wasn't this proven decades earlier?!"
'cause it was open for a while but the proof isn't that hard
She's a leftist trans woman who does hot takes on many politically incorrect topics
I need to learn the proof that the minimal genus surface representing the homology class $n[\Bbb{CP}^1]\in H_2(\Bbb{CP}^2)$ in $\Bbb{CP}^2$ is in fact $(n-1)(n-2)/2$
The genus coming from Riemann-Roch
But apparently it requires Seiberg-Witten theory so that'd take a couple years
$H_2$, no?
Thanks yes
My homology became complex graded somehow
In my defense I didn't sleep for 20+ hours
I'm trying to visualize the connected sum of two $\Bbb{CP}^1$ in $\Bbb{CP}^2$, but my visual for $\Bbb{CP}^1$ in $\Bbb{CP}^2$ is a line in a plane
That's good
Think of the lines $xy = 0$ becoming
05:59
Also wow dude don't die
$xy = 1$
ill try not to my man
So if I take the time dimension of that movie into the third dimension (or whatever the words are) I get a saddle point
thwipping from one hyperbola to its conjugate
Yeah, it's the pencil of curves $xy = tz^2$
in homogeneous coordinates
So yeah it makes sense that that's combining the x-axis and the y-axis somehow
I like what happens to the topology at the intersection of two $\Bbb{CP}^1$'s at a point in $\Bbb{CP}^2$
A link of the singularity (intersect the surrounding with a sphere of radius epsilon) is a Hopf link
06:03
I just went from not understanding at all to completely understanding in a weird jolt
Felt strange
Haha that happened to me as well
Mike taught me this
But yeah it's like in the 3-sphere you have the xy-plane gives you a circle and the zw-plane gives you a circle
Right exactly
The 3B1B video on quaternions had this visual at one point
Oh I should check that out
I once tried and understood how quaternions actually act on $\Bbb R^4$
06:05
Multiplying by $i$ rotates the $1i$ circle and the $jk$ circle independently
Right
Birotations
Or whatever
If you sterographically project it so that the $1i$ circle is a line, you get this weird twisting motion in $\Bbb R^3$
Rotation by the same angles are different than rotations by different angles on the two planes IIRC
Ah these are the isoclinic rotations
There are infinitely many invariant 2-planes
The orbits of points under that sort of rotation gives you the Hopf fibriation
The Hopf fibrillation
@BalarkaSen you might want to look at the study I created on lichess
06:09
fillibuster
Right I should sleep
send it to me ill have a look eventually
@Akiva Same, but will I?
Found my copy of The Annotated Turing
Feels like such a completely different branch of math
Left-multiplication and right-multiplication by quaternions generate all rotations of $\Bbb R^4$
06:10
"The topology of computation" would be an interesting subject
No idea what it would be though
So there's a map $SU(2) \times SU(2) \to SO(4)$
And this is degree 2
That's why $SO(4)$ is $(S^3\times S^3)/\{-1\}$
What's the set of rotations of that?
Right, $\Bbb Z_2$ acting by $(x, x) \mapsto (-x, -x)$
Set of rotations of $SO(4)$ is $(SO(4))^2$?
Does that make sense?
SO(4) is given the natural Riemannian metric or what
06:15
Yeah sure
And then we have isometries (that are connected to the identity)
Multiplication by $G$ gives a map $G \to \text{Isom}(G)$, no
Ah, left/right
Yeah in other words
So there is some $G \times G$ stuff
"precompose" and "postcompose"
At some point I convinced myself the set of rotations of the set of rotations of $S^2$ was $SO(3)^2$
I think for the same reason
06:19
A rotation of the set of rotations looks like $r\mapsto s_1\circ r\circ s_2$
and you can go over all pairs $(s_1,s_2)$
(where $r$ is a rotation of $S^2$)
But I wonder what Isom(SO(n)) is
How many dimensions does it have
If it has the same dimensions as $SO(n)^2$ then that should be it, right?
'Cause we have an injection
(It is an injection, right?)
Hm but actually I have no idea how many dimensions it has
Tangent space of Isom(M) at identity is the space of Killing fields right
of M? Yeah that makes sense
For Lie group G of dimension n, we get n independent Killing fields on G, given by the n left translates of e_i, no?
1 <= i <= n
06:27
At least
What about the right translates
I am seriously doubting dim Isom(G) can be bigger than dim G
I feel the right translates will be dependent
@AkivaWeinberger In particular I am not sure it is an injection
Suppose $s_1\circ-\circ s_2=I$
Then we can plug in $I$ and get $s_2={s_1}^{-1}$
so we're asking if all conjugations are nontrivial
OK, but then plug in $s_1$
Sure, but we'd need $srs^{-1}=r$ for all $r$
Oh yeah I was trying to get at some contradiction which doesn't work
06:33
Yeah the point is the center of $SO(n)$ is trivial
…It is, right?
Ah yeah
$s$ commutes with everything
Yes
At least when $n > 2$
Because $SO(2)$ has full center
@Akiva Wait, $SO(3)$ is covered by $SU(2)$ which is isometric to $S^3$ so has isometry group $SO(4)$ which has dimension $10$, and isometries of $SO(3)$ lift to those of $SU(2)$ so $\dim \text{Isom}(SO(3)) \leq 10$ better hold, no
Dimension 10 what are you talking about
Dimension 6
Whoops yeah
06:42
But yeah it's $6=2\dim(SO(3))$ so we're good
Question is, what's the deal with like dimensions 5 and up
Ah OK great
This sort of suggests we can describe any isometry of $SO(n)$ by describing where two of its elements go
I guess yeah
Suppose $I$ remains fixed
and I guess suppose another one remains fixed, the question is do we have any degrees of freedom left
Maybe choose a 180 degree rotation about some 2-plane
You know what? I'll sleep on it
See you in the morning
Still wild that the complement of the spiral in 3-space has second homology
Only if you don't also subtract out the limit circle
yeah cool stuff
also I guess it's possible to explicitly count the solutions of $L_X g = 0$
 
4 hours later…
10:30
Happy Birthday to Ramanujan
 
2 hours later…
12:12
Please help me with this problem of Conic Sections
If $\alpha, \beta, , \gamma and \delta $ be the eccentric angles of the four points of intersection of the ellipse and any circle, prove that $$ \alpha + \beta + \gamma +\delta$$ is an even multiple of $\pi$
Please see my attempt
@Semiclassical @AjayMishra and everyone it's a request to please help me.
 
3 hours later…
15:10
Hi, I'm trying to solve this problem that exploits the implicit function theorem. The second point, however, to me is a headache. i.sstatic.net/sRkre.png
Any suggestion?
Evening chat
15:55
Hey @ÍgjøgnumMeg
16:17
Hiya @Alessandro
Looks like my first cohomology theory is gonna be cuspidal cohomology o.O
$\mathfrak{s}$
@ÍgjøgnumMeg Splitting number?
In set theory $\mathfrak s$ is the splitting number (one of the so called cardinal characteristics of the continuum)
I seeeee, in the theory of modular forms it's an equivalence class of cusps and the cohomology theory is called "Eichler cohomology" and is defined as $H^1_P(\Gamma, M) := \operatorname{ker}\left\lbrace H^1(\Gamma, M) \to \prod_{\mathfrak{s}}H^1(\Gamma_\mathfrak{s}, M)\right\rbrace$ where $\Gamma$ is a congruence subgroup of SL_2(Z) and $M$ is a representation of $\Gamma$ and $\Gamma_\mathfrak{s}$ are stabilisers of the cusps $\mathfrak{s}$ rofl
whatever that means
16:40
@AlessandroCodenotti Would you like to help me with my question?
I don't know anything about plane geometry
@AlessandroCodenotti No problem. Are you working on set theory these days?
Yes, mostly
I'm also thinking about some topology now and then
Wow.
It feels very nice when I hear someone is working on Set Theory, Topology or other pure mathematical topics than those technocrats and computer science things.
vzn
vzn
17:18
lol!
@ÍgjøgnumMeg Strange business
17:35
@AkivaWeinberger Your intuitive argument that $[\ell_1, \ell_2][\ell_2, \ell_3]\cdots$ is nontrivial in $H_1(\Bbb H)$ can actually be made precise as follows (I should have realized this immediately but I was extremely sleep deprived). If it was trivial, then it would belong to $[\pi_1(\Bbb H), \pi_1(\Bbb H)]$.
So it's a finite product of commutators in $\Bbb H$. Take the maximal $n$ such that $\ell_n$ appears in that word.
That means this word $[\ell_1, \ell_2][\ell_2, \ell_3]\cdots$ is homotopic to a word in a finite rank free subgroup in $\pi_1(\Bbb H)$ generated by the first $n$ circles.
@Balarka strange indeed
There should be a quick argument to show this is impossible.
@AkivaWeinberger Oh I lost track there, scratch the above. Here's what it is: Say it's a product of $n$ commutators in $\Bbb H$ (doesn't make sense to take the maximal $n$ such that $\ell_n$ appears, it can be commutators of infinite-length words).
Chop off every letter after $\ell_{n+3}$. Then $[\ell_1, \ell_2][\ell_2, \ell_3]\cdots$ gets sent to $[\ell_1, \ell_2][\ell_2, \ell_3]\cdots[\ell_n, \ell_{n+1}][\ell_{n+1}, \ell_{n+2}] \in F_{n+2}$, which is a product of $n+1$ commutators. But since this word in $\pi_1(\Bbb H)$ is equal to $n$ commutators after chopping off we also get it's equal to product of $n$ commutators in $F_{n+2}$.
Essentially because $\pi_1(\Bbb H)$ sits inside $\varprojlim F_k$, so the sequence of words in every free group are consistent under the "chop off the last letter map" $F_{k+1} \to F_k$
I guess it's not super clear to me that commutator-length should be an invariant
In $F_n = \langle x_1, y_1, \cdots, x_n, y_n \rangle$, $[x_1, y_1][x_2, y_2]\cdots[x_n, y_n]$ is not a product of less than $2n$ commutators because if that was so then if say $[x_1, y_1]\cdots[x_n, y_n] = [a_1, b_1]\cdots[a_m, b_m]$, then you'll get a non-nullhomotopic map $\Sigma_{2m} \to \Sigma_{2n}$
There is no such thing if $m < n$.
17:58
user image
4
Actually there are lots of non-nullhomotopic maps from lower genus surface to higher genus ones, I want something stronger.
Ah my map would be degree 1. That should be impossible
I saw you pinged me in some $\pi_1(H)$ related madness @Balarka, but I didn't see the details, what was going on?
We were thinking about why the mapping torus of $f : H \to H$ given by shifting the circles by one has nontrivial 2nd homology
But wait jesus I have forgotten about surface groups lol. It's true that there are no degree 1 maps $\Sigma_g \to \Sigma_h$ for $g < h$, right?
So that mapping cylinder looks like a Nautilus shell?
Yeah
I meant mapping torus, sorry.
18:06
Wait what's the difference?
You autocorrected that in your head maybe
Mapping cylinder is a cylinder not a torus :P
The construction I have in mind is taking $H\times [0,1]$ and gluing $(x,0)$ to $(f(x),1)$
That's the torus, yes
Oh, wait, what's the cylinder then?
I thought that's the cylinder lol
Just what you think. If $f : X \to Y$, $M_f = X \times [0, 1] \sqcup Y/(x, 1) \sim f(x)$
18:10
Hmm I see
What's a simple example of a bijective $f\colon X\to X$ such that the mapping cylinder does not deformation retract to $X\times\{0\}$?
$M_f$ always deformation retracts to $Y$
Ah you have the other end in mind?
It deformation retracts to the other end iff $f$ is a homotopy equivalence
@BalarkaSen To $f(X)$ in general I guess?
@BalarkaSen Hm. This makes sense intuitively but I'm not fully convinced
No, no. It deformation retracts to $Y$ not $f(X)$. Take mapping cylinder of a constant map.
18:13
That's $CX\vee Y$, right?
@BalarkaSen cohomology computation
@BalarkaSen Oh sure, I was forgetting that there's also a copy of $Y$ attached, I see now
I got an hat apparently
Hi, we can use second degree taylor polynomials for finding a local minimum or local maximum of the approximated function, true?
Anyway back to the mapping torus of $H$. That's weird, the shell is open at one end
(there's a "cosmic brain" hat, I need to get it for the memes)
18:23
@MikeMiller Yeah got it. $\Sigma_g \to \Sigma_h$ for $g < h$ has to be non-surjective on $H_1$ so non-injective on $H^1$. You get some $\alpha \in H^1(\Sigma_h)$ which pulls back to $0$ in $\Sigma_g$
Take it's dual, which cups to $1$ in $\Sigma_h$ but pullback cups to $0$
@AlessandroCodenotti This is standard. Suppose $M_f$ deformation retracts to the $X$ end. Then run the homotopy long exact sequence on $(M_f, X)$ to get $\pi_* X \to \pi_* M_f \to \pi_* (M_f, X)$. Since $M_f$ def rets to $X$ the first map is an isomorphism, forcing $\pi_* (M_f, X) = 0$.
Some argument I forget here. Damn I am forgetting all of topology
@Shootforthemoon: You mean to test? If you have a critical point $a$, the second-degree T.P. at $a$ might tell you. But what happens with something like $f(x)=x^3$ or $x^4$ at $0$?
Hi, demonic @Alessandro, @MikeM, a @Balarka
@BalarkaSen "all of"?
Oh ok assume everything is cellular. $X, Y$ are CW complexes, $f : X \to Y$ is a cellular map. So $X$ is a subcomplex of $M_f$ obtained from attaching cells. $\pi_*(M_f, X) = 0$ implies you can collapse the cells of $M_f$ attached to $X$ by leaving it fixed along the boundaries
That gives a deformation retraction, cell-by-cell, of $M_f$ to $X$
And for non-cellular maps you have to jiggle a little to make stuff cellular. This bit I really don't remember
@AkivaWeinberger Anyway, I think it suffices to take the word $w = [\ell_1, \ell_2][\ell_3, \ell_4] \cdots$ in $H_1(\Bbb H)$. $S(w) = [\ell_3, \ell_4]\cdots$ which is homologous to $w$ of course. And $w \neq 0$ because if it is zero, then $w \in [\pi_1(\Bbb H), \pi_1(\Bbb H)]$ thereby a product of $n$ commutators, but then chop of all the letters $\ell_{n+3}, \ell_{n+4}, \cdots$ to get $[\ell_1, \ell_2] \cdots [\ell_{n+1}, \ell_{n+2}] = \text{product of n commutators}$ in a free group $F_{n+2}$
That's not possible because of the surface and degree argument above
Hi @TedShifrin
18:50
@TedShifrin Thanks! Well, in those cases for $f(x)=x^3$ we have a change in concavity, while for $x^4$ we have no changes and a positive concavity, right?
Does the symbol Pr usually refer to a probability measure? Yes, I guess so
@Shootforthemoon I mean, the function is convex, so we have a minimum there

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