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03:00
@Akiva If someone held you at gunpoint and asked you to translate Despacito, would you?
Am I misunderstanding something or you're saying that English native speakers speak English as a second language?
@AkivaWeinberger Ha, ok
That's the main professional hazard in learning Spanish
There are many countries, for example, India, where I guess that English is still a widely used language, even though I think it may not be the official one
In any case, English is the de-facto international language
I should learn French at some point, mainly because I have to read actual French papers...
tons of untranslated Thom papers out there
but it shouldnt be hard to pick it up just to read math
@nbro In Europe, sure… I dunno if that's true worldwide
03:02
How did you read them? The translation?
In my home country, kids now start to learn English at the primary school
English is now taught from a very young age in many countries
If you know English, you can go to any country and survive
I suppose?
I wonder if ex-Soviet countries still learn Russian
or if they've switched to English
Like what second language do the kids learn in Kazakhstan
In Kazakhstan, Russian is widely spoken, but it's not the primary language
There are many singers that sing in Russian
For example, Jah Khalib
He's from Kazakhstan, even though I think he has Turkish origins or something
By the way, that's Russian
Sorry, he's Azerbaijan origins
But Russian is also widely spoken in Azerbaijan, 'cause it's an ex-Soviet Union country
@BalarkaSen Is there a theorem that says subsets of $\Bbb R^3$ can't have torsion in their fundamental group
There's an old MO question but it's open I think
For $\Bbb R^2$ it's a theorem of Casson
@Akiva I propose a candidate for a generator of $H_2$ of this
OK
Wait shit I have an idea
You first though
Or wait I don't think it works
03:12
@LeakyNun lichess.org/SEylpxJr#54 this ending almost pushed my heart too far lol!
I dunno if it works but take this loop
$$\ell_1(\ell_2(\ell_4(\cdots)(\cdots)\ell_4^{-1})(\ell_5(\cdots)\ell_5^{-1})\ell_2^{-1})\\ (\ell_3(\ell_6(\cdots)(\cdots)\ell_6^{-1})(\ell_7(\cdots)(\cdots)\ell_7^{-1})\ell_3^{-1})\ell_1^{-1} = 1$$
Yeah, so take this loop as a subset of $\Bbb H$ and glue it to itself back-to-back by the shift transformation
I don't quite understand what it is
Feels like it should give a map from $S^2$ to the mapping torus, but I am not sure
Maybe I am tripping balls
03:14
I don't understand your loop. But I think we need a nonzero element of $H_1(\text{Hawaiian earring})$ that equals itself under the shift map
My loop is what you get if you iterate $\ell_1\ell_1^{-1}$, $\ell_1(\ell_2\ell_2^{-1})(\ell_3\ell_3^{-1})\ell_1^{-1}$, so on
It's actually nullhomotopic in the earring so I guess it doesn't help
Call the shift map $S$
We want the kernel of $S(x)-x$
which would mean it's homologous to something that ignores any finite number of loops
but not homotopic to that (otherwise it'd be nullhomotopic)
Something like $[\ell_1,\ell_2][\ell_2,\ell_3]\dotsb$?
Is that nullhomologous?
It's the infinite product of zeroes essentially
I feel like you have to nest the commutators
03:20
$\ell_1+\ell_2-\ell_1+\ell_3-\ell_2+\ell_4-\ell_3+\dotsb$
$[\ell_1, [\ell_2, [\ell_3, \cdots]\cdots]]$
Wait hold up sanity check $\ell_1-\ell_1+\ell_2-\ell_2+\ell_3-\ell_3+\dotsb$ is zero right
Yeah it's nullhomotopic even
Yeah that's what
OK so can I prove that the last thing I did is zero?
$\ell_1+\ell_2-\ell_1+\ell_3-\ell_2+\ell_4-\ell_3+\dotsb$
I don't know how to do this with finitely many 2-simplices
or do I just need one massive simplex
that's infinite genus
Infinite genus wouldn't represent H_2 of course
03:24
OK let's go the other way can we prove that it's not zero
What's the name of the thing we need? Inverse limit? Colimit? Limit? It's one of those
What do you want to prove again
$\ell_1+\ell_2-\ell_1+\ell_3-\ell_2+\ell_4-\ell_3+\dotsb\ne0$
and use that to find a nonzero element of $H_2$
In what group? $H_1(\Bbb H)$?
I find this highly suspicious
You should be able to make finite-distance commutation moves in $H_1(\Bbb H)$
But I actually don't know what the abelianization of this crap would look like
03:28
Suppose it is. Then we have $L\in H_1$ such that $S(L)=L$. To construct our element of $H_2$, we take $L$ around the torus
er how do I describe this
Yes, that's OK
Near the edge we have $L$ on one side and $S(L)$ on the other and we can join them because they're homologous
and away from the edge it's just a big cylinder
There's a long exact sequence $\cdots \to H_n(X) \to H_n(X) \to H_n(T_f) \to \cdots$ where $T_f$ is the mapping torus of $f$, and the map $H_n(X) \to H_n(X)$ is $1 - f_*$
Falls out of Mayer Vietoris
So your construction is sound
But I am 70% sure the loop has to be $[\ell_1, [\ell_2, [\ell_3, \cdots]\cdots]]$. It's homologous to $[\ell_2, [\ell_3, \cdots]\cdots]$
I just don't know how to prove it's indeed not nullhomologous. The "turtles to infinity" is what should prevent it to be zero in $H_1(\Bbb H)$
Neat
Oh this is Jeremy Brazas I know that guy
He does shape topology
03:38
@BalarkaSen Really?
As in not personally
I remember some of his Cech stuff from some paper
Ah
"Shape theory" sounds like another name for geometry
but like vaguer
It's a pity they hijacked the name to mean "study of bullshit spaces"
Literally what shape shouldn't mean
From what I've seen it's like "The Warsaw circle (sin(1/x) but connected to itself) should be like a circle but homotopy/homology groups can't see it! We need something that can"
03:40
haha yeah
which is like, fine, sure, but you don't get to call that "shape theory"
hahaha
@northerner Hi
Is there a way to determine how many numbers are not divisible by 2 and 3 in a certain range of the real numbers?
If it was 2, that would be easy. Just divide by 2...
Principle of inclusion/exclusion
#(div by 2)+#(div by 3)-#(div by both)
03:42
(And div by both is the same as being div by 6)
Something's divisible by both 2 and 3 iff it's divisible by 6
Sorry, let me rephrase
Argh sniped
I'm too good at this
I would like to know how many numbers are not divisible by 2 OR 3
So I think it would be #-#div by 2-#div by 3+#div by both 2 and 3
Right.
Oh right yes sorry
but I was wondering if there's a formula since it's non-trivial to check each number for divisibility
Missed the "not"
How many numbers from 1 to n are divisible by 2?
03:44
n/2
What if n is odd
I guess we want the floor of n/2
⌊n/2⌋
yes
so my question is how can this be extended to include 3
Similarly, ⌊n/3⌋ is the number that's divisible by 3
how do you account for the OR is what I'm getting stuck with
How many are divisible by 2 and 3?
03:46
e.g. is it ⌊(n/2/)3⌋
2 mins ago, by northerner
So I think it would be #-#div by 2-#div by 3+#div by both 2 and 3
yes but is there a formula?
Hint: "div by both 2 and 3" is the same as "div by 6"
n - floor(n/2) - floor(n/3) + floor(n/6) is your formula
ok thanks I get it
03:47
n−⌊n/2⌋−⌊n/3⌋+⌊n/6⌋
(Basically the set of numbers that are 1mod6 or 5mod6)
so you can also do $\lfloor\dfrac{n+1}6\rfloor+\lfloor\dfrac{n+5}6\rfloor$ I think
Ramanujan used to spam these identities
> Very nice! Actually, [a_1,a_2][a_2,a_3][a_3,a_4]... works. As you found, homology fixed points are the key (for any mapping torus) and there are lots of them. There's a result of K. Eda called the 0-form lemma which tells us which "reduced" loops are null-homologous in 1d spaces.
> The proof of this lemma is really something, but it basically says a reduced loop (with no null-homotopic subloops) in a 1-d space is null-homologous if and only if it factors as the product of finitely many reduced subpaths each of which has an inverse pair in the factorization.
(I used a instead of $\ell$ because no fancy script l in ASCII)
(and no MathJax on Twitter)
Cool!
Weird that that should work though
I think it's 'cause you need infinitely many cancellations, and you can't do "two cancellations at once" like you can with 1-1+2-2+3-3+…
Like
Consider four circles wedged together
and the loop (1+2-1-2)+(3+4-3-4)
This is one 1-simplex
How many 2-simplices are in the smallest 2-chain it's a boundary of?
We can also ask the same question about 1+2-1-2
It's the puncture on a surface of genus 2
03:59
I'm not sure what the answer is but I'm pretty sure the first is twice the second
Which I can triangulate by just one simplex
Can you? Can you even triangulate a torus by one triangle?
I thought you needed two
Oh, you want geometric triangulation, fine
As opposed to?
I want the boundary to be our 1-simplex as well as some pairs that cancel
Not "the same image as the 1-simplex but broken up into two pieces" for example
Dunno, I dozed off for a second. It's the puncture on a surface of genus 2 anyhow
That's the chain which bounds it
But you can like view wedge of four circles as $\Bbb R^2$ minus four points
And then immerse $\Sigma_2 \setminus D^2$ with $[a, b][c, d]$ as the boundary curve
I guess you do the same with $\Bbb H$. It is deformation retract of $\Bbb R^2$ minus $\{0\} \cup \{1, 1/2, 1/3, \cdots\}$ after all
along the x-axis
04:06
Wait really?
I don't think that makes sense
Maybe if you got rid of $\{0\}$
Yeah sorry whoops
$0$ is my basepoint
Yeah you'd want $\Bbb R^2\setminus\{1,1/2,1/3,\dots\}$
Yay Jeremy Brazas follows me on Twitter now
@BalarkaSen I think the basic idea is it "costs" one triangle to split the simplex $\alpha\beta$ into the sum of two simplices $\alpha+\beta$
if I search Fox-Artin google keeps asking if I meant Fox-Martin
no you shithead
04:13
where the first is a loop (function from $S^1$)
I think it's a hard question in general to find what's the minimal number of simplicies needed to bound a nullhomologous curve
It's like asking what the minimal area of the disk which bounds a nullhomotopic embedded loop in a Riemannian manifold (you can always make the disk immersed by generic perturbations I believe)
To kill $\alpha\beta\alpha^{-1}\beta^{-1}$ you need three simplices, to chop it up into pieces that cancel
something something Gromov norm is relevant here
Hey - your suggestion of $[\ell_1,[\ell_2,[\ell_3,[\dotsb]]]]$ doesn't work!
$[\ell_1,x]$ for any $x$ is nullhomologous, no matter how complicated $x$ is
Although
It's nullhomologous??
Wow ok
04:18
I think you meant conjugation, not commutator
Guess so yeah
I think you meant $\ell_1+\ell_2+\ell_3+\dotsb-\ell_3-\ell_2-\ell_1$
though I'm not entirely sure that works either
I think that's actually nullhomotopic
It's $(\ell_1\cdots)(\ell_1\cdots)^{-1}$
Very trippy
04:21
New Twitter comment:
> In fact it occurs to me that my friend's suggestion of
[a_1,[a_2,[a_3,[a_4,…]]]]
doesn't work, for trivial reasons

(He comments: "Very trippy")
Lol
Pretty cool that an explicit immersed torus bounds it
in the R^2 \ {1, 1/2, ...} picture
I think this is like, R^3 minus a spiral, where on end of the spiral goes to infinity and the other end loops infinitely tight around a circle
I think it's a 2-torus in that picture? The element of H_2 I mean
One 'cause you go around the loop, the other 'cause you kill a commutator
Incidentally
He said $\pi_1$ of the mapping torus is $\Bbb Z$
Took me a bit to realize why the meridians don't give you an extra $\Bbb Z$
You can nullhomotope it by sliding off to infinity
That's a valid disk
04:33
In this?
I don't understand
I don't think it's nullhomotopic
Hm wait maybe it is
Yeah say start with outer circle and go around the torus, with time $1/2^n$ each time, or something
No I think you run into trouble by asking where it is at time t=1
when you make the $n$-th round, cross the torus with time $1/2^n$
If the inside loop were a point rather than a circle I'd believe you
@Akiva It's at the basepoint at time 1
It's a basepoint fixed homotopy
04:39
I'm having a hard time following
I'm talking about the edge of the surface to be clear
I think every time you go around the torus, you have a moment where there's a part of the loop very far from the basepoint
so in the limit, at t=1, it has to still be far from the basepoint
You mean the loop that traverses all of the Hawaiian earring? I was talking about the individual circles
I mean an individual circle yes
Then I don't see the problem. When you cross a torus with time $1/2^n$, you are effectively constructing a homotopy from the outermost circle to the $n$-th inner circle, and since the times add up to $1$, you can prove it uniformly converges to a nullhomotopy
This is a classic telescoping trick
Let's see if I miss something. You have a map $D^2 \setminus 0 \to \Bbb H$ with boundary mapping to the outer circle
$D^2 \setminus 0$ is partitioned into annuli of radius $1/2^n$
Your complaint is that there are points in any of those annuli which are $1$ away from the basepoint?
That's not true, everything is shrinking
As you traverse inwards and inwards, the uniform distance of the loop from the basepoint during one full traversal becomes smaller and smaller
Oh no how is that true
The circle has some radius
So $D^2 \setminus 0 \to \Bbb H$ cannot possibly extend to $0$
Strange
Yeah the point is the innermost circle isn't a point
If we quotiented it to a point I'd believe you
@Akiva Wait. If $f : X \to X$, $T_f$ has fundamental group a semidirect product of $\Bbb Z$ and $\pi_1(X)$, no?
Where the conjugation action is by $\pi_1(f)$
04:49
That sounds believable
Because $X \to T_f \to S^1$ is a fibration and there is a section $S^1 \to T_f$, run the homotopy LES etc
I mean so $\pi_1(X)$ injects into $\pi_1(T_f)$.
He's wrong
The whole meridian Hawaiian earring is incompressible
He didn't say $\pi_1$
He said $H_1$
Ah
Hm.
@AkivaWeinberger You said $\pi_1$ here so I got confused
Oh
Yeah sorry that was a typo
My bad
> Meet the Hawaiian mapping torus - the mapping torus of the shift map. First singular homology is infinite cyclic generated by inner loop. Can you find the non-trivial elements of H_2? If you look at the image, it might feel H_2 is trivial since there is no "enclosed space!"
That's the actual quote (and what I said was nonsense)
I am holding a very pretty egg
It feels like a shame to crack it
but I am hungry
Shame
04:57
Done
I wonder what's the oldest food
Not, like, the oldest recipe, but the oldest instance

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