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00:52
@BalarkaSen Alright, thanks for trying to answer such a vague question :)
01:16
@nbro That might be an application of this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_total_probability
Weird object
Consider the free group on infinitely many objects, but with infinite products allowed
so for example $a_0a_1a_2\cdots$ is fine
Now quotient it out by $a_n=e$ for all $n$
The image of $a_0a_1a_2\dotsb$ is still nontrivial
Hm wait this doesn't make sense
You can't multiply two infinite objects like that
I was thinking of $\pi_1$ of the Hawaiian earring
Maybe you have $\varprojlim F_n$ in mind, or something
$\pi_1$ of the Hawaiian earring has many nontrivial relations
It's a quotient of $\varprojlim F_n$
If I take the Hawaiian earring group and quotient each circle to $e$ is the result nontrivial
I don't mean attach a cap to each loop
I think the result would be the Hawaiian earring group mod finite products of the circle loops
I can't understand what you are trying to do
Let $\ell_n$ represent the element of the Hawaiian earring group that's just going around the $n$th circle
I'm doing $H/\langle \ell_n,n\in\Bbb N\rangle$
That's nontrivial, right?
01:30
Yes.
$\ell_1\ell_2\ell_3\cdots$ is not in the subgroup generated by $\ell_1, \cdots$
Right
Is there a space for which $H/\langle\ell_n,n\in\Bbb N\rangle$ is the fundamental group
There is a space for any group whose fundamental group is that group
but maybe you mean to invoke the galois correspondence
No, the earring is not semilocally simply connected.
There is no universal cover, for example
Standard covering space theory fails
01:33
Also covering space theory does not provide quotients of the fundamental group as fundamental group
It gives subgroups
Attaching caps gives you quotients
$H$ is not generated by $\ell_1, \cdots$
You choose a generating set first and then take the wedge of circles, and attach caps, so on
It's just a totally different picture
$H$ is not countably generated so you can't actually visualize it
In fact, $H$ surjects onto $\Bbb Z^{\Bbb N}$, where by power I mean product.
Is there a good space whose fundamental group is $H/\langle\ell_n,n\in\Bbb N\rangle$
I think I might have one
01:37
whatever good means
Take the Hawaiian earring in the xy-plane, and then add a line segment of length 1 perpendicular to it
Or wait simpler description: cone on the earring
@Rithaniel We would need p(y | x, w) to be multiplied by something else, no?
That's contractible bro
Oh wait yeah
Duh
That's what I said, you can't add disks to the circles and expect to get the quotient, because the circles don't generate the group
Adding disks to the circles give you the reduced cone
It's a fairly simple paradox
01:40
Adding disks quotients too much, in other words
What I'd want, ideally, is a way to do something to the space to quotient the "finite" elements but only them
@LeakyNun My heart rate goes over 145 playing bullet chess, is that normal lol
I don't know how one would construct a generating set for $H$
@Alessandro might know
My fitness watch says that it has detected that I am playing sport
@TedE You might find this interesting
"The grandmaster diet: How to lose weight while barely moving"
@TedE yes and no
01:44
Essentially an element of $H$ looks like a tuple $(w_n)$ of words from each $w_n \in F_n = \langle \ell_1, \cdots, \ell_n \rangle$ such that if you remove $\ell_n$ from $w_n$ you get $w_{n-1}$ and each $\ell_i$ appears finitely often in the sequence
@AkivaWeinberger Wow that's amazing, 6000 calories a day while playing in a tournament, wtf
well I'm not a doctor
I read the brain uses about 36% of your food calories.
Apparently enough to be a legit health hazard
Do people cheat on lichess?
01:45
unfortunately yes
but lichess will detect it
and ban the cheaters
Computers can use ridiculous amounts of energy, so maybe it shouldn't be surprising that thinking does too
I haven't got much experience at all yet, but this guy played super good: lichess.org/A9hAXuByL5qk
if youre playing many engine moves in a row eventually they detect the pattern
hi @TedShifrin
I tried to request a computer analysis on it, but nothing happens
01:47
hi @skull, a @Balarka, DogAteMy, other @Ted, @Leaky
Hey Ted
Hi @Ted
do you play chess? @TedShifrin
Apparently a Google search uses enough energy to boil a liter of water, or something
01:47
Oops, both Ted got pinged
(in their end)
@BalarkaSen It's okay, I don't mind it lol
I get 5 of them a day, it just makes me feel popular
@AkivaWeinberger That wouldn't be true
depends on the search
Checked: it's not true
internet is a massive waste of energy both literally and figuratively
2
01:49
Sorry for the lies everyone
though I understand if you all were too scared to look it up
$63000$ searches per second on average, so $226800000*96000 \approx 2.18e13$ joules per hour
@AkivaWeinberger "HAHAHAHA"
@BalarkaSen the blackhole of time and energy
5916666666 watts
Goddamnit, I messed up the SI units
Oh well I don't care enough, back to chess
01:52
Hm $H$ is a subgroup of $\varprojlim F_n$, not a quotient. Whoops.
Um wait hold on
Four Google searches together can boil a liter of water
I wasn't far off
To see if that seems reasonable, compute how much energy google uses per hour (which is what I was trying to do above)
It's a kilojoule
I think if that were true, it'd use more energy than the US generates or something, since that seems way too high
> one Google search consumes the same amount of energy as turning on a 60W light bulb for about 17 seconds
01:54
If they have 63000 searches per second
That probably includes lots of stuff that has nothing to do with google though
@AkivaWeinberger source please
Like your network power at that moment, the ISPs power, etc
Also a nice fact in $H$ is $\ell_1(\ell_2(\ell_4(\cdots)(\cdots)\ell_4^{-1})(\ell_5(\cdots)\ell_5^{-1})\ell_2^{-1})(\ell_3(\ell_6(\cdots)(\cdots)\ell_6^{-1})(\ell_7(\cdots)(\cdots)\ell_7^{-1})\ell_3^{-1})\ell_1^{-1} = 1$
I mean kilojoules are pretty small, though, right? They're comparable to a food Calorie
Your pc power at the time, lots of extra stuff
@BalarkaSen I don't know what you're talking about, but that cannot be a nice fact under any circumstance
thnx pal
hmmm
Boiling a litre of water from what temperature
@TedE
> If 40,000 searches occur in a single second, that second alone uses 12 kWh in energy. That's the equivalent of running a ceiling fan continuously for one month.
Wait
No
Crap
Ignore everything
I misread stuff
The phase change thing is from ice
To raise the temperature by a degree
Not to boil it
01:57
Is that their claim?
I was thinking you were talking about taking it from 30c to 100c
@TedE It's a word in the fundamental group of the Hawaiian earring which is not identity if you chop off finitely many words but identity in the transfinite limit
@Akiva This is a good example of wasting figurative energy
@BalarkaSen Did you ever get to visualise a torsion fundamental group?
> The 1984 World Chess Championship was called off after five months and 48 games because defending champion Anatoly Karpov had lost 22 pounds.
@TedE No their claim is it's a kilojoule
I was misreading what a calorie was and badly trying to convert

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