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00:25
@Mathein: You will never come close to failing.
@TedShifrin laughs in Cantonese
LOL @Leaky (in French)
So, how're you enjoying MIT, @Leaky?
still getting used to the assignments
When I taught there, I gave far longer assignments than I had as a student.
00:56
@Semiclassical yes
01:17
Hello friends
that laugh in Cantonese was very funny and elegant leaky
hi @Jacksoja
@MatheinBoulomenos Hello !
How are you doing?
pretty well, thanks
and yourself?
can't complain
doing some ring theory for the moment
and am trying to understand the modding out in R[x]
I found that (x^3 -2) is in the kernel , but am not sure if there is another polynomial that has less degree that spans this one .
It should not be the case i think since that is not rational number
what exactly are you modding out?
the kernel of which homomorphism?
01:32
f : Q[x] ---> C
x ---> 2^(1/3)
if am not totally lost, (x^3-2) is in the kernel right? it gets sent to zero
is there anything special about the ideal (x^3-2)?
yes, x^3-2 is in the kernel
it is monic
okay, you can say more
also integer coefficients
that's not what I mean
maybe this guessing game is not so helpful
it's irreducible
do you see why?
01:37
we did not use that term yet but I know what it means
and yes we cant factor it more
well, that's not a proof, but I guess if you haven't covered irreducibility before, then I guess you don't know Eisenstein's criterion
the fact that x^3-2 is irreducible implies that (x^3-2) is a maximal ideal
so it must be the whole kernel, since the kernel is a proper ideal and it is contained in the kernel
okay I see, but that criterion is later in the book, just checked
I don't really see the point of doing this exercise before you set up the notions you need for it...
it is not me who wanted to do it, it was in the examples haha
I'm pretty confident that you're going to need to some form of irreducibility argument to compute the actual kernel
@ÍgjøgnumMeg I just checked the notes for the upcoming modular forms lecture. It seems pretty easy-going, you're not even doing Hecke operators
01:43
Yes it sounds right
R[x,y] --> R[t]
x-->t^2 , y -->t^3
y^2 -x^3 is in the kernel
the details are not important, but how do you view polynomials in two variables? @MatheinBoulomenos
I don't understand the question, they are just polynomials in two variables
sometimes it's useful to think of them as polynomials in one variable over polynomials in the other variable, i.e. R[x,y]=R[x][y]
yes!
that was my question
R[x][y]
there is no formal proof why those are the same
just claimed in the book
I guess that's because it is "obvious", there isn't really happening much
@MatheinBoulomenos Thanks
are you really content with that explanation?
01:53
I think am confusing myself , need to take a break
no no
I just did the computation
if it's not clear to you then you should insist on understanding why it is true
oh okay
the explanation in the book made it look like a big deal
but I assume just doing polynomials in x over coeffients in y
or the other way around
does the same thing so like you said, just obvious
this notion of polynomials being formal expressions is kinda new to me
used to view them as functions from R --> R
R real numbers
that's not the right approach even in one variable
it works out over R, but over a finite field you don't get the right notion
can you alloborate?
for example, if you look at the polynomial x^2+x over the field with 2 elements, what function do you get?
01:58
we get zero
right. But do we have an equality x^2+x=0 as formal expressions in the polynomial ring?
I see ! good example
no we do not
(1,1) is not the same as (0,0)
or (1,1,0,.... ) , (0,0,0,..)
I guess we dont bound the polynoml just put some extra zeros in the end
I think you should write (0,1,1,0,...), don't forget the constant coefficient
Yepp true!
I take some break , thanks for the help and clearing my confusion one again haha
i shall for sure come back another time with more Q's hopefully intressting ones
02:48
hi @Ted
Hi @Leaky
I've been actually looking at Lean for no particular reason
@MatheinBoulomenos surely R[x,y] is the regular functions on R^2!
@LeakyNun I thought about that
but not that's not helpful, pedagogically
so what have you been looking at?
idk, just the tutorial
is it true that you have to prove everything for additive groups and multiplicative groups separately?
02:51
oh no
big yikes
ok there's like an automation thing that allows you to transfer stuff
semi-automation
I've read some stuff on Lean vs. Coq
though I guess you lean towards Lean
I don't know much about Coq
what kinds of math have been formalized in Lean and how tedious is it?
our latest addition is manifolds
class manifold (H : Type*) [topological_space H] (M : Type*) [topological_space M] :=
(atlas            : set (local_homeomorph M H))
(chart_at         : M → local_homeomorph M H)
(mem_chart_source : ∀x, x ∈ (chart_at x).source)
(chart_mem_atlas  : ∀x, chart_at x ∈ atlas)
hey where are the second countability and Hausdorff conditions lol
@LeakyNun oh wow you have monoida categories
03:06
we have quite a few category stuff
the definiton of a monoidal category is annyoing even if you're not doing formal verification
03:39
@LeakyNun if I want to contribute to mathlib, do I have to work constructively where it is possible?
I saw some pings
Did it get resolved
03:54
@Ryan we were wondering about the difference between geometric analysis and global analysis
and what those two actually mean
and "analysis on manifolds"
04:07
> “If you lack background knowledge about the topic, ample evidence from the last 40 years indicates you will not comprehend the author’s claims in the first place,” wrote Willingham, citing his own 2017 book.
just looked at the scores my students got on their first quizzes. two of my sections are part of one lecture group, the other two in the other. hence there's two different quizzes between them and two different graders
the first problem is supposed to be an easy one from the HW. I graded one of the quizzes, and my most common score was 25/25 (though that wasn't a plurality by any means)
Did one turn out to be harder than the other?
the other grader's most common score? 6/25
the ffffff
(Most common is plurality - more than half is majority, no?)
oh, woops
yeah, not a majority
the grader gave a quarter of the class 6/25 points
04:11
So a problem with the graders or with the testwriters?
well, I know the problem that was assigned, and it wasn't that hard
but even if it was hard, I can't imagine 6/25 being an appropriate score
What subject?
intro physics. (the problem was on kinematics, specifically)
in my book, 21-25 = only minor mistakes, 17-20 = at least one major mistakes, 10-16 = answer was substantially flawed, 1-10 = "I can't tell if you've ever sat in class."
I only gave one score lower than a 10 on this quiz problem, and that was to someone who only did 60 km/hr = 0.025 km/s.
So my threshold for getting at least 10/25 is not very high.
Hence a 6/25 plurality is to my eyes simply mental
Is it supposed to be 0.01666... km/s?
What?
erk. 90 km/hr
04:17
Did you look at the answers they gave?
The students
that got the 6s
haven't yet. going to do that tomorrow morning when I get in
If the mode was in the teens, that'd be brutal but at least plausible to me
a score that low, though? That makes me question the grader more than the students
Also, for additional context: There's multiple students in that section who I've seen get 75/75 on the other portions of the exam
so they got perfect on the rest of the exam, but less than 25% on that one portion? that's a big WTF
05:11
@TedShifrin Hi
06:02
@LeakyNun do you have any tips on how to get started in Lean? you worked with Kevin Buzzard directly, I'm just self-studying, lol
Last night dream, saw three geometric shapes:
The first one is a hyperbolic space resembling a Smith Chart
In the dream, only the square with the stairwell is visible (and all other squares are implied to be the exact same stairwell tiled all over).
Walking in any direction slows to a crawl. A later scene reveals the reason is because the whole world rotates as you walk, and the world rotates only slightly slower in the direction you walk, thus the net velocity that is perceived as movement is very small
06:29
The 2nd and 3rd are a ring (unknot) and a strange knot like object called a tubloid. A tubloid when seen from the side looks like a sine wave, unlike the ring which is a straight line. Both look like circles as seen from the top.
However, compared to a ring, a tubloid behaves differently in the following way:
1. When you pull one half of the ring over the other half as shown, that loop will get stuck and you make a knot
2. But for a tubloid, doing the same thing you cannot make a knot, because its twisted nature means the two overlapping strands shown can rotate out of the way by switching place, thus the loop will not encounter an obstacle and simply fall through like a loose loop of strand does
Thus, a tubloid has the weird property that you can do a full 360 rotation of the half loop over another strand without get stuck
07:02
The tubloid has a shape very similar to an umbilic torus
07:13
0
Q: Determinant of Large Matrix

maths student$A=\left[\begin{array}{ccccc}{-2} & {-1} & {} & {\cdots} & {-1} \\ {-1} & {-2} & {-1} & {\cdots} & {-1} \\ {} & {} & {\ddots} & {} & {} \\ {-1} & {\cdots} & {-1} & {-2} & {-1} \\ {-1} & {\cdots} & {} & {-1} & {-2}\end{array}\right] \in \mathbb{R}^{53 \times 53}$ So we want to find determinant of...

07:31
@Mathein yeah it really doesn't look so hard, I feel a lot less nervous about it now hahaha
just need to re-read existence/uniqueness of Laurent series, and Residue theorem
something like this, you can keep doing this and no interlocking loops will be formed
@ÍgjøgnumMeg you also want to read on how you can read off the type of singularity from the Laurent series
but yeah, there's not much complex analysis you need to know
from the -1 term?
or smth
the coefficient of the -1 term is the residue (by definiton), but that's not what I meant
ah i see
07:46
if you have infinitely many non-zero terms with negative exponents you have an essential singularity, if you have at least one non-zero term with a negative exponent you have a pole and if you have no negative exponent terms you have a removable singularity
and for meromorphic functions, you only allow poles as singularities
Cool :) Cheers
that's important because without that the whole "meromorphic at infinity" stuff for modular functions doesn't make much sense
yeah rofl
if you work with meromorphic functions $\mathcal{M}(U)$ on a domain $U$ you can also apply a lot of algebra: meromorphic functions on $U$ are a field, in fact the quotient field of holomorphic functions $\mathcal{O}(U)$ on $U$. And for each $z \in U$, you can define a discrete valuation on $\mathcal{M}(U)$ by defining $v_z(f)$ to be $n>0$ if $f$ has a zero of order $n$ and $v_z(f)=-n$ if $f$ has pole of order $n$ and $0$ else
you can use analytic results from complex analysis to show algebraic results about $\mathcal{O}(U)$ which is a fun exercise. For instance Weierstraß factorization implies that $f \mid g$ in $\mathcal{O}(U)$ iff $v_z(f) \leq v_z(g)$ for all $z \in U$
(that's not stuff you need just neat things about complex analysis from an algebraic pov)
hey nice
07:57
using this result regarding divisbility, it's easy to show that elements in $\mathcal{O}(U)$ admit a gcd and a little more work even shows that you can always write $\gcd(f,g)=af+bg$ for some $a,b \in \mathcal{O}$, so we have a Bezout domain
but $\mathcal{O}(U)$ is never Noetherian
so we have naturally occuring example of a non-Noetherian Bezout domain
lol gonna file that one away for some algebra exercise
rings you could define from real analysis like $C^\infty(\Bbb R)$ are pretty horrible in comparison
hey @Balarka!
yeah I disagree with real analysis on a fundamental level
Hi @Mathein!
Hey @Balarka
08:02
how are you doing?
Hi @ÍgjøgnumMeg!
Missed ya yesterday
Not bad. Came back home for a weekend.
lmao, it seems that for my thesis I need to work out some stuff for which according to Kevin Buzzard "the only useful reference seems to be Brian Conrads's brian"
@MatheinBoulomenos Did you see my question in proper math? I'd like to know an answer
The stuff about number of generators of the vanishing ideal of a variety
@Mathein I don't know if it was a typo or a pun, but the fact that you wrote Brian Conrad's brian makes me happy
lol
accidental pun
looks like the only new things I'll learn in ANT I are in chapter 7
which is nice
@BalarkaSen I saw the question, but I'm not sure about the answer
the map t->(t^2,t^3,t^5) is a bijective morphism which is not an isomorphism of affine varieties
that alone doesn't really tell us about the vanishing ideal being 2-generated though, if we look at t->(t^2,t^3,t^6), then the image is V(x^3-y^2,y^2-z)
Right.
08:25
0
Q: Identity function and floor function

maths student$f_{3}: \mathbb{Z} \rightarrow \mathbb{Z} \text { with rule } f_{3}(x)=\lfloor x / 2\rfloor+\lceil x / 2\rceil$ Can you please tell me whether this is identity function on its domain ? I guess yes because $\lfloor x / 2\rfloor$ = $x /2$ $-$ {$x$/2} and same for ceiling function so when we add ...

08:44
@BalarkaSen let $\zeta_3$ be a primitve third root of unity and consider the point $(\zeta_3,-1,\zeta_3)$, this point is contained in $V(x^3-y^2,x^5-z^2)$, but not in $V(x^3-y^2,x^5-z^2,y^5-z^3)$
Oh, interesting. I was looking at the real locus too much.
08:56
Good morning guys, suppose we have a $\sigma$-finite measure space $(X,\mathcal A,\mu)$ and let $\delta:=\{A\in\mathcal A:\mu(A)<\infty}$
$\delta:=\{A\in\mathcal A:\mu(A)<\infty\}$
then my textbook says that because of $\sigma$-finiteness of $\mu$ is easy to see that $\sigma(\delta)=\mathcal A$
I understand that the sigma finiteness of $\mu$ implies that there's an exhausting sequences with finite measure, but I don't quite follow the reasoning to make that assertion
@RScrlli I assume that $\sigma(\delta)$ is the $\sigma$ algebra generated by $\delta$?
@MatheinBoulomenos If I let $I = (x^3 - y^2, x^5 - z^2, y^5 - z^3)$ and $m = (x, y, z)$, then $x^3 - y^2, x^5 - z^2, y^5 - z^3$ are independent in $I/mI$ as a $\Bbb C$-vector space, right? If $c_1(x^3 - y^2) + c_2(x^5 - z^2) + c_3(y^5 - z^3) \in mI$ then there can be no pure term of $x$ with degree $3$, nor a pure term of $z$ with degree $2$, which forces $c_1 = c_2 = 0$. But this would force $c_3 = 0$ likewise.
yes ! @MatheinBoulomenos I should have clarify that
@BalarkaSen seems right, yeah
Which shows $\dim I/mI \geq 3$, so $I$ cannot be $2$-generated.
09:08
@RScrlli if you take any $A \in \mathcal{A}$ and you have an exhausting sequence $X=\bigcup_{n=1}^\infty X_n$ such that $\mu(X_n)<\infty$, then $A=\bigcup_{n=1}^\infty (A \cap X_n)$ where $\mu(A\cap X_n) \leq \mu(X_n) < \infty$
It should be possible to cut out this curve set-theoretically using two hypersurface in $\Bbb C^3$, right? Just not ideal-theoretically, I guess.
@MatheinBoulomenos I see! Thank you very much!
@MatheinBoulomenos Do you know when sum of two radical ideals is radical?
This has to do with transversality I feel
09:24
Eg that's why $(y - x^2) + (y) = (x^2, y)$ in $\Bbb C[x, y]$. The hyperusrfaces $y = x^2$ and $y = 0$ do not intersect transversely at $(0, 0)$, which is why we get something smaller than $(x, y)$.
Ideal-theoretic intersection seem to encode "which direction" the intersection is not transverse.
Very mysterious
random note: ideal-theoretic intersection is also scheme-theoretic intersection which follows from the easy lemma that $R/I \otimes_R R/J= R/(I+J)$
@BalarkaSen Motivating from $\Bbb{Z}$, I guess if the ideals are comaximal then that holds.
@MatheinBoulomenos I guess scheme-theoretically you think of $V(I)$ in $\text{Spec}\, R$ as the morphism of schemes $\text{Spec}\, R/I \to \text{\Spec}\, R$, and intersection is then a fiber diagram, which is $\text{Spec} R/I \otimes_R R/J$, as you say?
Which does correspond to $V(I + J)$ like you mentioned
I am never entirely comfortable with this viewpoint. You throw away the notion of subschemes entirely, right? Instead subobjects of a scheme $X$ are somehow morphisms $Z \to X$ from other schemes, and you work in this "etale category"?
09:32
a closed subscheme is a closed immersion
but it's not determined by its set-theoretic image
you don't need the étale site
closed immersions are stable under base change and composition, so if you have two closed subschemes $Y \to X$ and $Z \to X$ where $X$ is a separated scheme, then $Y \times_X Z \to X \times_X X \to X$ is a closed immersion, so we get another closed subscheme
so it makes sense to speak of $Y \times_X Z$ as the "intersection"
I agree that it's a bit weird at first that subobjects are some kind of morphisms $Z \to X$, not subsets with an induced structure
but the only thing that this allows us is to have non-reduced things: for any closed (or even locally closed) subset of a scheme there's a unique reduced closed subscheme structure
09:48
Let me work this out. A closed immersion $f : Z \to X$ would be a morphism of schemes such that $f^\# : \mathcal{O}_X \to f_* \mathcal{O}_Z$ is surjective, i.e., every regular function on $Z$ extends to a regular function on $X$, basically.
you also want the map of underlying topological spaces to be an embedding
Right, OK
This makes sense
If $C \subset X$ is a closed subset, it inherits a scheme structure, yes? I restrict the structure sheaf $O_X$ to $C$. Then the inclusion $C \to X$ would be a closed immersion.
are you sure?
I'm not sure this works
you need to take a limit and then sheafify for the restriction
I don't see why the result is a scheme
Yeah, that's what I mean by restriction. Hm, I have no clue. Locally a scheme is isomorphic to $\text{Spec} A$, and closed subsets are then like $V(I)$.
It seems to me that the $C$ will be locally $V(I) = \text{Spec}(A/I)$
suppose that we take a closed point in an affine scheme $\mathrm{Spec}(A)$, corresponding to a maximal ideal $\mathfrak{m}$, then the restriction will be (I think) the locally ringed space with one point $x$ and global sections the stalk at that point $A_{\mathfrak{m}}$, but this is not a scheme if $A_{\mathfrak{m}}$ is not zero-dimensional
10:02
Ah ok
what you want to do is take the quotient by a sheaf of ideals
for example in the affine case, for the closed subset $V(I)$ we have a sheaf of ideals given on basic open subsets $D(f)$ by $I_f$, then we can take the quotient of the structure sheaf by this sheaf of ideals and we get the structure sheaf for $\mathrm{Spec}(A/I)$
you can prove that this works out globally as well, for a morphism of sheaves of rings you get an ideal sheaf as the kernel and you can define the quotient sheaf and this turns out to be a scheme
and you have an analog of the homomorphism theorem
if $(X,\mathcal{O}_X)$ is a ringed space, then by a sheaf of ideals on that we just mean a $\mathcal{O}_X$ submodule of $\mathcal{O}_X$
OK, let me see what I really want. I'll fix the case I understand: $\text{Spec}(A)$ with it's structure sheaf $\underline{A}$. For a closed subset $V(I)$, I can identify that with $\text{Spec}(A/I)$ set-theoretically, and pullback it's own structure sheaf $\underline{A/I}$. What does it correspond to inside $\text{Spec}(A)$, is I suppose my question. Let me think for a while.
I take a induced basic open subset $D(f) \cap V(I)$ in $V(I)$. The sections over $D(f)$ in $\text{Spec}(A)$ is $A_f$.
@BalarkaSen I think one punchline is that you can't just construct $\mathrm{Spec}(A/I)$ from the structure sheaf of $\mathrm{Spec}(A)$ and the mere set $V(I)$ since different ideals can give rise to the same closed subset
Hm I see
I see your point. Instead you're defining a sheaf of ideals $D(f) \mapsto I_f$ (each $I_f$ is an ideal in $A_f)$.
Then the quotient is $A_f/I_f \cong (A/I)_f$.
That's a very weird construction
@MatheinBoulomenos Aha.
10:17
you just take the kernel on each open subset
it's maybe not that weird if you think about what your functions on $V(I)$ are supposed to be: if two functions on $\mathrm{Spec}(A)$ agree up to an element of $I$, they should give rise to the same function on $V(I)$
so it's the natural thing to take the quotient
I understand that, but it seems like subobjects are a very unnatural thing to set up in this context.
well, open subschemes are no problem, you can just restrict the structure sheaf without any problem
and then you can define a general subscheme as a closed subscheme of an open subscheme which is indeed a bit clunky
I guess it makes sense if I think of quasiprojective varieties.
Surjectivity of $f^\# : \mathcal{O}_X \to f_* \mathcal{O}_Z$ makes sense, in light of this conversation. It's just saying that we're quotienting by some sheaf of ideals in $\mathcal{O}_X$.
10:23
right
Anyone here that could look at my post and see if the last comment I made to the answer by Ross makes sense?
11:08
I was doing a multivariable limit problem and got limit does not exist as an answer. I want to check my work so I used symbolab symbolab.com/solver/multi-var-limit-calculator/…
It said I got the wrong answer so I used wolfram and got wolframalpha.com/widgets/gallery/…
My answer agrees with wolfram - is it right?
11:20
Does there exist a unital ring $R$ such that the group of upper triangular matrices over $R$ does not have the infinite conjugacy class property? That is, there exists a nontrivial invertible upper triangular matrix $A$ such that the conjugacy class of $A$ is finite?
Obviously if $R$ is a finite field, then this should work (all conjugacy classes will be finite)...
I guess I'm interested in whether there exists an infinite ring or field....Does $R = \Bbb{Z}$ work?
11:41
@user193391 Surely you want to say "non-central" instead of non-trivial, because say $cI$ for every $c \in R^\times$ is such an element. But it does work for upper triangular integer matrices, where I compute by hand that the conjugacy class of
[1 a]
[0 1]
only includes itself and
[1 -a]
0 1]
Hi @MikeMiller
 
1 hour later…
13:08
can anyone help me understand better when we would need second order logic as opposed to getting by with first order
13:20
We don't need it, in fact usually we use first order logic because there are very nice theorems that hold for first order but not second order logic (notably completeness and compactness)
However second order logic also has its perks, for example the second order Peano axioms have a single model, which is the standard natural numbers, while the first order Peano axioms have a lot of nonstandard models
 
3 hours later…
16:01
Hi, a @Balarka!!
Hi @Ted!
16:24
How you doing?
Not bad, @Ted. How about yourself?
Doing fine, thanks :) You still on break?
Haven't spoken in a while. Your analysis teachings are serving me long time; not having to study for three analysis courses in a row counting this semester.
LOL, I'm not sure I'm to blame for that!
Nah, just came home for a weekend because there were some holidays here and there around that.
@TedShifrin Rooting for the differential geometry courses next year. It'll be a good revision.
16:30
What are you learning in these analysis courses?
Oh, not much, hah. This semester is multivariable, and it's pretty bad. The instructor is teaching from Apostol :)
We'll probably never learn inverse function theorem
Oh, then you're right. I am to blame :P
Hahah
I have spread the words about your book. Some people are gaining quite a lot from it.
Yeah, I grew up on Apostol, but I like my book more. Of course, he has great material on differential equations and probability and stuff.
Vile words? :)
My roommate is big on analysis and his favorite multivariable book is Munkres. We banter a lot about who's better, you or Munkres :P
16:35
Well, Munkres has a different audience — he assumes people already know most of what's in my book.
I don't like his treatment of differential forms that much
Well, he does everything the "higher-level" way of using tensors.
That's fine for a higher analysis course.
16:47
munkres has a multi book??
Analysis on Manifolds. A rewrite of Spivak.
I think my exercises are far superior, too.
oh i’m dumb i own this book
LOL ... if you're this forgetful now, just think :P
i never read it so it’s fine
16:51
LOL
How does one show that the inverse image of an open set of the Riemann sphere under a Möbius transformation $\varphi$ is open (as a proof that Möbius transformations are continuous... so don't say "cuz they're continuous!" lol). If I pick a $z_0 \in U \subseteq \overline{\Bbb C}$ where $U$ is open then $z_0$ is an interior point so there's an $\varepsilon$-ball of $z_0$ contained in $U$, can I somehow show that there is a $\varepsilon$-ball of $\varphi^{-1}(z_0)$ contained in $\varphi^{-1}(U)$?
Why are you trying to do a proof like this?
They're all induced from linear automorphisms of $\Bbb C^2$, so it's just about the quotient topology.
It's an exercise in these notes lol, idk why though since (I think) it's very obvious
i was gonna say just do it in charts but what ted said is better
@ÍgjøgnumMeg, so I'm suggesting you think of the Riemann sphere as $\Bbb CP^1$.
But, yeah, in a complex analysis class, we would just look at $(az+b)/(cz+d)$ on $\Bbb C$. Duh.
16:58
Mhm
I don't really know what you mean by thinking of the Riemann sphere as $\Bbb C P^1$, I'm just working through a first course in complex analysis to refresh my memory :P
Oh, do you not know about projective space?
You need to :P
Not really, I basically know the definition of projective space and that's about it
lol
Since you have to deal with projective algebraic curves in algebraic number theory, you need to learn it :P
Yeah :P I'll do some algebraic geometry next year, I don't think I'll be doing anything elliptic curvey this year
The course in Modular forms only requires some basic facts from complex analysis so tha's fine hehe
Anyhow, that's the most "elegant" solution. But, no, I don't see any easy $\delta$-$\epsilon$ argument. If you know these map lines/circles to lines/circles, maybe there's an ad-hoc geometric way to do it.
17:02
That#s fine :D Thanks anyway
 
1 hour later…
18:28
Hi all I'd like to discuss a really illegal manipulation
So I got a double product over signum functions
With discrete arguments, so the expression under the product is something like $\operatorname{sgn}(x_i-y_j)$, where the $i$ and $j$ run from $1$ to some integer
The argument is never zero, so the discontinuity is never "felt"
So what's the question?
Now, the system in which I'm considering this has $x_i-y_i$ very small, so I figured what the heck, I will do a series expansion (illegal of course because of the case $x=0$ for $\operatorname{sgn}(x)$)
No, that is nonsense.
You need to be counting for each $x_i$ how many $y_j$ are greater. An even number or an odd number?
I have an even set $\{x\}$ and an odd set $\{y\}$
Sorry odd number of elements in set
And even number of elements in $\{x\}$
But what matters is how many $y_j$ are bigger than each fixed $x_i$.
18:36
Indeed, but the $x$ and $y$ have no explicit solutions, the best I can do is do some sort of series expansion
Without opening the can of worms too much, series expansion is the best I can hope for here
Series expansions make no sense in this setting.
From a mathematical point of view I would agree
But my system is so hyper constrained that I'm honestly considering doing it anyway: e.g. math.stackexchange.com/questions/1318516/…
I cannot continue this conversation. I give up, as my view is only mathematical and not gibberish.
What are the axes of the 3-space in which the surface representing the general solution to a first-order ODE lives? My first guess was that the horizontal axes are the independent and dependent variable, and the vertical axis is the constant of integration, but this has bizarre effect of "dearbitrizing" the constant. For example, the general solutions $x^2 + y^2 = C$ and $x^2 + y^2 + 1 = C$ have different graphs, but are the same general solution.
Your question doesn't even begin to make sense to me, @user10478, sorry.
Why is the ODE even relevant? We're looking at families of curves in the $xy$-plane.
18:49
I guess my question is just how to graph general solutions to first-order ODEs in $R^3$.
Why are you graphing in $\Bbb R^3$? What's the meaning of $z$?
These are not functions. They are curves, many of which are not graphs of functions.
Isn't a general solution to a first-order ODE a surface in $R^3$?
No.
Not if our ODE is in $x,y$ only.
Hmm, what would it be then?
You get a family of curves in the plane.
I suppose you could think of the family of level curves $f(x,y)=c$ as coming from slicing $z=f(x,y)$ with horizontal planes.
18:53
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.
But the general solution is NOT that surface in 3D. It's a slice of it.
Hmm, isn't that a particular solution which is a slice of the surface?
But the general solution is a particular solution ... it's not all the solutions put together.
Unless your book/professor is using the language differently from the custom.
Hmm, I've been thinking of a general solution as exactly that, a collection of particular solutions.
I'm not sure if that came from my book or my head.
What does it mean for a general solution to be "a" particular solution?
No, it's usually considered to be the "general" particular solution, i.e., with the parameter in there.
A particular solution is one that satisfies the given initial condition(s).
I always think about the family of level curves, not of the surface in $\Bbb R^3$.
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