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18:07
Hey, rob.
@JM The prefix for my last comment never resolved to @JM for me.
Oh, that was for me? Thanks. Did you see the big version I showed in the transcript?
@JM I always grab the 512 pixel version whenever you change gravatars.
Heh. :)
It was tricky to find examples of surfaces with icosahedral symmetry.
@JM rather than a 20-sided die (which is not really symmetric.)
18:14
@JM Sorry if I'm boring you again.. If, in applying partial fraction, I have a quadratic numerator and a cubic denominator, I'd have to reiterate the partial fraction?
@unNaturhal or at least divide out the fraction
@unNaturhal If your cubic denominator factors out into linear factors, then you can do partial fractions like usual...
@robjohn Divide? How?
@JM No, it doesn't...
Is GCD defined in the context of fractions?
@Gigili Yes, you can take the GCD of two fractions.
18:15
Hola, BTW.
@unNaturhal oops, sorry, I thought you said quartic numerator. Never mind.
@Gigili it's defined in the context of any euclidean domain
@robjohn :)
@Gigili (Funnily enough we were talking about this yesterday...)
Hi
18:16
@JM It seems to come up about once a month.
Hi Nimza!
@JM Aha, thanks. Am I right to say that $GCD(6/24,12/24)=6/24$?
@Gigili or 1/4
Is it true that if upper right derivative is less than $a$ then $f(x+\Delta) - f(x) \leqslant a \Delta$ ?
Great, thank you.
18:18
@robjohn didn't see you the whole of yesterday
Upper right derivative is $\limsup\limits_{\Delta \to +0} \frac{f(x+\Delta)-f(x)}{\Delta}$. Inequality holds in all points
@Eugene I've been in deep thought, recently. Thinking about a generalization of this question.
@Eugene I spent all of yesterday and have gotten some, but very little progress.
@robjohn what is the generalization?
Any exponent between 0 and 3/2 (not just 1/2), and multiplied by $(k/2n)^\beta$ for a range of $\beta$.
gotta go get lunch with my wife... bbl
@robjohn that is very tough. i don't even know how one would approach it. anyway enjoy lunch!
18:28
@Nimza If you work with $g(x)=f(x)-ax$ instead, you want to prove $D^+g(x)\le 0$ $\Rightarrow$ $g$ is non-increasing.
@MartinSleziak hm... second is easy)
@MartinSleziak thanks!
I am probably missing something, I don't see it yet.
But if you know how to prove it, everything is ok.
@MartinSleziak ah not... I made a mistake, it's not so easy
It's possible that you will need continuity.
Of $f(x)$? It is continuous
18:35
Related result is given here, they assume continuity of $f$.
Theorem 9.1.3: Let $f\colon [a,b]\to\mathbb R$ be a continuous function. If some of Dini derived number is non-negative (non-positive) for each $x\in(a,b)$, then $f$ is non-decreasing (non-increasing) on $[a,b]$.
@MartinSleziak good, great thanks!
This results is obtained as a corollary of the following (Theorem 9.1.2): Let $f$ be a continuous function on $(a,b)$. Then $$\sup_{x\in(a,b)} D^+ f(x)=\sup_{x\in(a,b)} D_+ f(x)=\sup_{x\in(a,b)} D^- f(x)=\sup_{x\in(a,b)} D_- f(x)=\sup_{\substack{x_1\ne x_2\\x_{1,2}\in(a,b)}} \frac{f(x_2)-f(x_1)}{x_2-x_1}.$$
I've copied it from a Slovak texbook I have here.
My translation, so ignore grammatical mistakes.
But I guess it would be possible to find another reference in English, if you have to.
which book it is? "An introduction to the theory of ... "?
No.
The results I copied are from Šalát, Švec, Neubrunn: Matematická analýza funkcií reálnej premennej.
It's in Slovak.
@MartinSleziak thanks, I'll try to find this book
18:42
It won't be easy.
I can scan the few pages for you, but are you sure you want to read it in Slovak language?
I guess that the result can be found in some English book.
@MartinSleziak no, thanks... maybe there is something in "Introduction .." book
Maybe you can also check Exercise 15.H in van Rooij-Schikhof, p.96
theorem 3.6.3 in "Introduction" looks like it is what I need
ok, great
It seems to be a useful book.
ďakujem :)
18:51
Prosim.
 
1 hour later…
19:55
Quiet for a Saturday.
Saturday is math day
20:12
Hi guys.
@Jordan Every day is math day.
@JonasTeuwen there is no math day; math just is!
@robjohn 8-).
@JonasTeuwen If math were to have a day, think how sad everyone would be when it ended!?
@robjohn It would be like the apocalypse 8-). Every week. That's horrible.
@JonasTeuwen Indeed
20:19
who knows why the total derivative $\frac{d}{dt} x(\tau,t,x) = 0$ of solution of $\dot x = f(t,x)$ is always zero?
20:31
@JonasTeuwen: My explanation does not seem to be getting through starting at this comment. Am I being hard to understand?
@Nimza where is this coming from?
@robjohn Seems easy enough.
@robjohn I like these computations 8-).
So maybe I am the wrong one to ask? Seems very natural to me.
@robjohn inverse stability theorem. I understanded, I think... Just $x(\tau,t+\delta,x(t+\delta)) = x(\tau, t, x(t))$
@Nimza how is $x$ an argument of $x(r,t,x)$?
@robjohn initial position (position at time $t$). Not a good notation maybe)
I was thinking about how to explain semigroups to people.
Then I figured out it is an excellent method to justify the use of infinite dimensional spaces. I mean, our space is finite dimensional and then we use these seemingly esoteric things.
20:36
@JonasTeuwen what kind of people?
@robjohn Non-mathematician scientists?
@robjohn he's going to put out a cap on the street for tips!
math-busking.
@Eugene $\bbox[5px,border:2px solid red]{\text{Will integrate for food}}$
4
21:17
it's weird that there an MSE user named potato and yet @MarkDominus is the one with a potato gravatar
There's a user named potato?
yup
So there is.
That is strange.
Also "potato man".
it confuses me sometimes since when i see your gravatar i think potato is in the chatroom
Sometimes when I see your gravatar I think purplelatticeguy is in the chatroom.
21:26
@robjohn you chose integrate correctly IMO because i don't think differentiating pays as well.
@MarkDominus sadly it's pink
@Eugene You can customize your gravatar and make it any color you wish :-)
I think it's purple.
@robjohn how? i thought you needed an account on that website.
Let's ask Asaf.
@Eugene Yes, you need an account on gravatar.com
@MarkDominus Does Asaf have super color vision?
21:28
@robjohn yeah. that's why my "attempted" joke on peter backfired. i didn't change my gravatar
@Eugene I missed that, what joke?
Eugene changed his username to "newbie".
@robjohn i changed my username to newbie in an attempt to flood tamaroff with calculus questions.
As he pointed out, it was funny to see someone named "newbie" answering questions about elliptic curves.
@Eugene Yes and your reputation would be high for a newbie :-)
21:31
@robjohn yeah unfortunately the joke backfired and it seemed like i'd have to spend a month being known as newbie
thankfully someone told me i could email the mods
@Eugene which mod changed it for you?
@robjohn beats me. they're all anon when you email them.
@MartinSleziak I do understand now. So basically you just keep stacking languages ad infinitum. Just like you would stack finite-dimensional spaces to get an infinite-dimensional one! 8-).
well i'm going out now to go and buy some recreational drugs
ie coffee
@Eugene Which ones?
Nice. I'm having coffee as we speak!
21:35
@JonasTeuwen indeed. we have to turn them into theorems after all.
bye all
21:48
Hey all, quick question, is anyone active here?
the actual question is
@Harmen Yes.
Is this an appropriate way of using the big-oh notation? 'all elements are of the form $e^{\lambda t} \, \mathcal{O}(t^k)$ for some eigenvalue $\lambda$'
I mean, is that a good way to say: all elements are some exponential of t times a polynomial of t of order k
I think that is okay, except that you forgot to say "... for some positive $k$".
Ok, i already defined $k$ somewhere, so no probs ;)
thanks
Could we see an induction proof as a sequence of proofs?
21:56
@harmen: But actually that only means that the elements are bounded above by $Ce^{\lambda t}P(t^k)$ for some polynomial $P$ and sufficiently large $t$. If the elements are actually equal to $e^{\lambda t}P(t^k)$, then that is a stronger statement that you should make.
@Jonas Only if your theory is $\omega$-consistent.
They are bounded from above, so i'm fine with the big O, and I like the notation
@ZhenLin Cool. What does that mean? (i.e. what should I type in wikipedia to learn more about this?)
Exactly that.
@ZhenLin Excellent. Thanks.
Good day.
I have a question, and I don't want to post it in math.SE because the answer is probably very readily available.
It is in Linear Algebra
In my book, one theorem says that if we have a finite-dimensional linear space, then any linearly independent set with the same cardinality as a basis for this set will be a basis.
Can this theorem be generalized for infinitely-dimensional linear spaces?
No, certainly not.
The argument cannot, since it uses finite induction.
22:12
Consider a countably-infinite-dimensional vector space with basis $\{B_0, B_1,\ldots\}$.
Now consider the independent countably infinite set $\{B_0, B_2, B_4,\ldots\}$.
@ZhenLin Would there be any way to say define say the distance of $P(n)$ to the limit $P$?
Such that we somehow recover our original definition?
That set has the same cardinality but it is not a basis.
Thank you!
You are welcome!
So define a topology on that.
22:13
@JonasTeuwen Doubtful.
Too bad.
@andrew: I think you may just have discovered the unique nontrivial linear algebra question that I can actually answer.
Its existence was first conjectured in 1972 but no example has previously been constructed.
Haha...Is there any way to make it work, perhaps using an ordinal isomorphism?
I don't see how ordinals will help, since bases remain bases regardless of order.
You can certainly prove that any two maximal linearly independent sets (i.e. bases) have the same cardinality...
22:20
Construct a well-order on $V$, the linear space itself, maybe? Then every base can be well-ordered by this relation $<$?
Using the axiom of choice, of course
22:38
Hi all, I was wondering if someone may be able to help me with a few questions regarding a Markov chain? I need clarification on what my initial state distribution is; and how to determine the number of steps that I need to take
23:09
Hi ... does anyone know how to solve this??
this original problems is this desmond.imageshack.us/Himg689/…
23:20
1
Q: transformation matrix from spherical to cartesian coordinate system

testuserHow to arrive at the following from given $ x = r\sin \theta \cos \phi, y = r\sin \theta \sin \phi, z=r\cos\theta $ $$ \begin{bmatrix} A_x\\ A_y\\ A_z \end{bmatrix} = \begin{bmatrix} \sin \theta \cos \phi & \cos \theta \cos \phi & -\sin\phi\\ \sin \theta \sin \phi & \cos \th...

@experimentX What do you get when you convert to polar?
lol ... i don't know ... i haven't done this kind of question before
seems like two coordinates (x_1, x_1)
should I consider one x_2 constant and solve it??
or ... change x1 = r cos \theta and x2 = r sin \theta
@experimentX They suggest changing to polar coordinates. I would try that first.
Hmm ... okay
23:43
@experimentX yes
you'll need the product rule to rewrite the derivatives of x1 and x2
yeah ... i got like two equations on r, r dot, theta, theta dot
do they decouple?
(I haven't actually written anything, just guessing)
or separate
Equations that can be decoupled are hardly worth thinking about! 8-).
Space and time should be heavily intertwined. In a Galaxy Far Far Away.
I think Willy would agree.
aren't space and time already heavily intertwined?
Well, if you can separate the equation, they are not so heavily intertwined right? You can just write stuff as product of two functions each depending on some other variable.
Like the heat equation.
23:51
I guess not ...
Stuff like $u(x, t) = f(x)g(t)$. Boring!
So then you can just consider the evolution in time without ever mentioning the position. That's like craaaazy.
It certainly needs some potential.
ah. but then you use the solutions to the separable version as a basis.
Yea, there is some connection.
@JonasTeuwen so painful derivation is good?
But then the level about intertwinment depends on your initial conditions... That sucks. If you start somewhere else at once stuff gets boring.
@Eugene We don't need a derivation. What the heck are you with a solution in terms of a basis in terms of practical use? Near to nothing.
It satisfies the equation, that is right, but you cannot do anything with it.
23:54
squaring and adding i get $ \dot r^2 + ( r \dot \theta )^2 = r^2 + 1 + 2 r \sin \theta \cos \theta$
You will solve it numerically anyway if you can separate it!
That will converge like so fast you cannot even blink in that time.
@JonasTeuwen when i said derivation i didn't mean derivative. i meant more difficult process for solving
So, what you actually do want to know are other properties of the solution like boundedness, maximal regularity and so on.
And you don't need a solution for that, and very often the solution you get in that basis it not so insightful and you can derive the similar properties directly from the equation.
@Eugene No? I mean that if you can solve it this way the equation is pretty useless or you will write a program to do it anyway. Takes like forever to evaluate an infinite series.
Do agree with me.
I need moral support. @robjohn Help! 8-).
@JonasTeuwen i like my math simple. eg i like doing algebraic geometry over $\Bbb C$ rather than $\Bbb Q$.
I like it hard and painful.
23:57
@JonasTeuwen hahaah. that sounded vaguely erotic but whatever works!
Like compute 50 special cases over the course of a few months to try to figure out if there is some general thing behind this! 8-).
It is erotic.
@JonasTeuwen lol.
It's like, hard work. Compute very hard useless examples and then you see the light appearing exponentially fast.
So like really fast.
Then you have this... sensation.
When you realise all this hard work is rewarded with a simple expression!
Just like erotic things really.
@JonasTeuwen unfortunately this does not happen in many instances.

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