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00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 22:00

1:00 PM
An irrational number definitely can be in that intersection
Let $H=\langle\frac1\pi\rangle$
or $\langle\alpha\rangle$ for any irrational less than 1
 
$nx$ will not even be $[0, 1]$ for large $n$
You have nx mod 1 in mind
 
Note that $1$ isn't necessarily in $H$
 
But that's not relevant to the question at hand
 
@BalarkaSen That's what $\{\cdot\}$ means I think?
 
Oh I thought he means literally the collection of all nx's
 
1:02 PM
Oh maybe
 
Anyway, yes, fraction part is taking mod 1 which won't land you in H because of what Akiva says
 
@AkivaWeinberger if not cyclic (I should've mentioned)
correction I claim, if not cyclic, then an irrational number cannot be in that intersection.
Now?
 
Why?
Also I need to go, sorry
I'll leave you with Balarka
 
You're trapped here with him
 
1:04 PM
he's also busy.
 
Or he's trapped here with you
Oh
Sorry
Bye
 
@AkivaWeinberger this one. With a being of lesser intellect :p
Now, there must be another element $y$ (other than $x$). We can take $u$, $v$ such that $-1<ux-vy<1$.
how good is that?
And, those elements would be infinite in number.
So, if not cyclic, then all the elements are going to be rational. (if my above claim is true at all). Now, the field of fractions of $\mathbb{Z}$ is $\mathbb{Q}$.
Now, we can proceed with "fractional ideals"
Finally we apply "prime avoidance"
@BalarkaSen don't know how is this going to work out
 
You're using a shit load of machinery for something simple
 
@BalarkaSen hint? (a little one)
 
Akiva gave one
 
1:12 PM
So the way to say "He runs fast" in Japanese is "His running is fast" apparently
(He topic-marker to-run noun-maker subject-marker fast)
(He wa to-run no ga fast)
(Kare wa hashìru no ga hayài)
I don't actually officially start learning this language until, you know, school starts, but I'm glad I'm learning some of this outside of a classroom because there's no way I could do this under time pressure
It's just so different from English
Also there's a really annoying pronunciation detail
The word ga is pronounced with the "ng" sound like in "sing", so it's really more like nga
and I keep on saying na by accident but that's a different word
 
> However, /ɡ/ is further complicated by its variant realization as a velar nasal [ŋ]. Standard Japanese speakers can be categorized into 3 groups (A, B, C), which will be explained below. If a speaker pronounces a given word consistently with the allophone [ŋ] (i.e. a B-speaker), that speaker will never have [ɣ] as an allophone in that same word. If a speaker varies between [ŋ] and [ɡ] (i.e. an A-speaker) or is generally consistent in using [ɡ] (i.e. a C-speaker), then the velar fricative [ɣ] is always another possible allophone in fast speech.
 
Yeah I know some do and some don't
but the audio recordings I have have it
Besides if I'm listening to people say [ŋa] I better be able to hear it as that
and not mishear it as [na]
 
@LeakyNun I hovered over that link and for a moment read it as "Japanese cohomology"
Sounded dank as hell
 
@BalarkaSen you need to sleep
2
 
1:40 PM
@AkivaWeinberger. Let $T=\{a_1, a_2, ..., a_m\}$ be a complete enumeration of the set. And suppose, $H$ is not cyclic. Let $a_t$ be the element closest to $0$ (>0) and for some $h \in H$, $h \notin <a_t>$ (we choose $-h$, if $h<0$). Now, $p a_t \leq h < (p+1) a_t$ for some positive integer $p$. Now, $0 \leq h- p a_t <a_t<1$, and $h-pa_t$ is not in $T$. So, h- pa_t$ must be $0$...
@BalarkaSen !?
@AlessandroCodenotti I read your proof. Didn't understand much.
@AkivaWeinberger, This particular problem can be solved using the statement I was trying to prove beforehand.
@SubhasisBiswas I think this is very much flawed since I am using ordering
 
@SubhasisBiswas Sometimes easy to state questions have hard answers. This might be one of those cases, or maybe there is a proof not using geometric group theory that I can't see.
 
I have been fruitlessly beating myself up over it for two days
Let $(H,+)$ be a subgroup of $(\mathbb{R}, +)$, such that $H\cap [-1,1]$ is finite and it contains elements other than $0$. Prove that $H$ is cyclic
what do you think about this?
 
1:56 PM
That it is true and easy to see from Akiva's comment
 
can you please take a few minutes to walk me through it?
it won't take much long, I promise
 
@SubhasisBiswas I see nothing wrong with the argument you were writing down
 
Can you prove that every subgroup of $\Bbb Z$ is infinite cyclic? It's the same argument
 
@BalarkaSen I was afraid to use the "order" on R
 
Why?
 
1:58 PM
@BalarkaSen I don't have an answer to this.
but for some reason, I am not sure.
 
lol
what a completely garbage reason
 
@BalarkaSen :p
@AlessandroCodenotti Let me try
$Z$ itself is cyclic
 
That was an insult, a proper response to which is not a toungeout smiley
 
@BalarkaSen I have built a tolerance towards insults. That's a bright side of not being too bright.
 
Well I have gone past the point of tolerance for your continued nagging and lack of effort to think for 2 seconds.
I am putting you on ignore
 
2:01 PM
I was thinking about one single question for 2 days almost without sleep.
I guess that is not a "lack of effort"
 
@SubhasisBiswas It could very well be the reason you were not able to solve it.
 
@AlessandroCodenotti $Z =<1>=<-1>$. A cyclic group has only cyclic subgroups. Suppose, $<a> \subset Z$ be of finite order. $n a = 1$. (n being its order). This implies that $na(1)=1$, i.e. $Z$ becomes a group of finite order.
anyone, can you check?
 
cis
Hello!


Question: What is the english name of this point?
"Footpoint of altitude"? No....
 
2:32 PM
Hey, @cis. It's called "foot of the altitude" as written here. Took a bit of googling myself to be honest with you.
Here's the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle#Points,_lines,_and_circles_associated_with_a_triangle
 
2:45 PM
Anyways, I'd like to ask something myself. I'm currently studying linear programming and combinatorial optimization and I'm trying to grasp some concepts, but I'm struggling a bit with a kind of intuitional understanding of some things.

Specifically, I'm currently at the "Hyperplane Separation Theorem".
Now, I'm mostly fine with the proof, but there's an essential step I feel I don't fully understand. At one point you choose a point from each polygon (say $x \in X, y \in Y$), such that these have the least distance of all such pairs. Using these two points you're trying to construct a hype
 
3:10 PM
Hi @Mathein
 
Hi @Balarka
 
I have a dumb question. I have a space $X$ such that $H^i(X, \Bbb Q) = \Bbb Q$ if $i = n$ and $0$ if $i \neq n$. Is it at all clear that $H_i(X, \Bbb Z)$ should behave similarly, degreewise?
Assuming $H_i(X, \Bbb Z) = 0$ for $i \leq n-1$, by UCT $\Bbb Q = H^n(X, \Bbb Q) = \text{Hom}(H_n(X, \Bbb Z), \Bbb Q)$ and $0 = H^{n+1}(X, \Bbb Q) = \text{Ext}(H_n(X, \Bbb Z), \Bbb Q) \oplus \text{Hom}(H_{n+1}(X, \Bbb Z), \Bbb Q)$, so $\text{Ext}(H_n(X, \Bbb Z), \Bbb Q) = 0$.
But $\text{Hom}(A, \Bbb Q) = \Bbb Q$ and $\text{Ext}(A, \Bbb Q) = 0$ doesn't quite force $A = \Bbb Q$, right? Any cyclic group will also satisfy these two.
Q direct sum a cyclic group I meant.
 
cdt
Hey @BalarkaSen I went to ISI for B Math interview :P
 
Hey, didn't you say you are going to CMU or something
 
cdt
Yup, Im
I went to ISI because I didn't have any prior interview experince
And I wanted to have some interview experience in HS
Anyway the campus is so green
 
3:25 PM
Oh shit okay
 
cdt
BTW why there's park inside the jungle ?
 
@BalarkaSen $\mathrm{Ext}(A,\Bbb Q)=0$ doesn't tell you anything as $\Bbb Q$ is injective
 
cdt
Also huge anthilss
 
@cdt Where do you actually live? It's rare that people outside of India takes the ISI exams
 
cdt
I am from India ofc lol
Selected for CMU as foreign applicant
 
3:28 PM
Aha
 
cdt
(Isn't it obvious ?)
 
It wasn't lol
@cdt Yeah that's the odd thing about it lol
 
cdt
Weird that the library don't have any AC. Is the library open 24x7 ?
 
It's usually pretty cold in Bangalore, we don't really have an AC anywhere on the main building except the auditoriums and the central computer labs
No, hardly. It's open like 18x5 lol
has to be the worst library i know
@MatheinBoulomenos Yeah I forgot that fact. Fair point.
 
cdt
Where the classes happens ? In the same building where the interview was held ?
 
3:33 PM
@cdt Having AC is equivalent to... Oh, wait, that AC
3
 
First floor of that yeah
@AlessandroCodenotti Lol
 
cdt
Oh and what happens in that round place near the jungle with lots of benches under a shade ? You guys sit and do maths ?
 
And sometimes smoke :)
It's called the Octagon
because of the octagonal shade
 
cdt
wait I have a pic
 
cdt
3:39 PM
i also visited CMI (not CMU); idk how the coursework differs but I like the campus of ISI B much more than CMI
like CMI is too smal
 
lol yeah i have heard that but never been there
 
cdt
though most of my friends are going to cmi :/
 
i think cmi is better than isi but i won't put any bets on it
indian education has no future
 
cdt
even isi/cmi sucks ? They were the top two choices for me in India (I dind't bother with JEE shit)
the CMI people with whom I interacted seemed smart...
 
manjul bhargava helped draft an elaborate educational reform policy recently but it's clear the government implementation will have nothing to do with it...
@cdt well yeah people are smart
that usually doesnt mean much
good choice on not bothering with jee
 
cdt
3:41 PM
@BalarkaSen all over India or only in ISI/CMI ?
 
oh no it's a national policy
 
cdt
what's the draft about ?
i am hearing it about the first time lol
 
it's a huge tome, but more or less speaks of some fundamental changes in school/university education
 
cdt
obviously needless to say those are shit, gomutra research is luv and lyf
 
its not much but its something
lol
yeah man get out of this country its good for you
this fucking shit is meaningless
 
cdt
3:45 PM
Are any of your ISI B peers interested in jobs more than maths ? I heard people joining ISI K now a days for jobs ...
in CMI there's a professor
who regularly fucks up students
 
Oh hell 90% of the ISI B people only care about getting good jobs
I call it the Mahalanobliss effect
just get a random good placement because you're a BMath passout
 
cdt
@BalarkaSen ehhh ? 90% ? seriously ?
 
yup
 
cdt
they have no plans to do m.math/grad studies ?
 
lmao MMath is a backup plan dude, you require 0 effort to get in MMath once you're a BMath and staying there is easy
so people who just drift off are like, lol whatever ill do an MMath
 
cdt
3:48 PM
Oh and there was a guy from Calcutta university who came to give MMath interview. He himself admitted he had no clue even about compactness... I wonder how he got selected...
 
LOL
I fucking told you
MMath students are the worst
 
cdt
I guessed it would be bad but I didn't think it's this much fucked up
 
'sprettybad
 
cdt
Do the 90% jobphile dudes talks about placements all the time (like IIT) or sometime does math in spare time too (outside say assignments) ?
 
i dont think anybody outside of that 10% does math in "spare time"
 
cdt
3:52 PM
btw how much time you have on a week on average for self study (ie excluding the curriculum work which everyone else has to follow) ? ISI course structure seemed pretty rigid in general
@BalarkaSen so they "enjoy college life" by spending time on facebook/silly jokes/watching movies ?
 
It's not that bad if you can utilize it actually (which I don't...), the assignment thing was a little annoying for me but it's not that bad at all
@cdt Yes exactly
 
cdt
any advice for how to utilize it (i.e how to eke out time to do maths) ? I'm very bad in utilizing time and I get distracted easily online (on hangouts/MSE chat/FB etc)
 
Hello. Vague question, but why is having compact support particularly good (say in the context of integration theory), and good in the sense that perhaps some nice theorems not apply, or they are well behaved in some sense (or however else you want to interpret it)
 
@user681391 'Cuz you can integrate over all of $\Bbb R$, so you don't have to pay attention to the domain, mostly :P
@cdt What I do is trick myself to do more math during my distraction time. Eg, trying to answer some question in MSE has that side effect
Or whenever you're talking with someone talk about math say
I have started picking questions in MSE which are explicitly on the edge of my understanding just so I can read something to write a complete answer
 
cdt
oh cool, thanks. Do you sometimes feel depressed/temporarily uninterested in math when you're stuck on a problem for a long time without any progress ?
 
3:59 PM
Too often. It's not a good thing
 
cdt
how do you get motivated to do math again ?
 
I guess I just get annoyed and flip tables more than feeling depressed/uninterested tho
 
Say that $g:\Bbb R^d\to \Bbb R$ is continuous with compact support and let $g_h(x)=g(x-h)$.

Then it is claimed that
$$\int_{\Bbb R^d} |g_h(x)-g(x)| dx\to 0$$
as $h\to 0$.

By continuity it holds that $|g_h(x)-g(x)|\to 0$ as $h\to 0$. Then for any $|h|<\delta$ we have $|g_h(x)-g(x)|<\epsilon$ so that $\int_{\Bbb R^d} |g_h(x)-g(x)| dx \leq \int_{\text{supp}(g_h-g)} \epsilon dx$
 
@cdt Idk I suppose I move on to something else for a while, then come back, sleeping on the problem, the usual schtick. It's good to acknowledge that I'm a stupid person in general, and that it shouldn't contradict with efforts to understand something I don't understand
 
The claim holds without the assumption that the support is closed right? Only needs bounded? (so that $supp(g_h-g)\epsilon\to 0$ as $\epsilon\to 0$)
 
4:02 PM
The goal should be to understand not to be able to solve a problem
the latter drives you mad if youre stuck usually
 
cdt
yup, exactly
 
@user681391 Compact support is needed because of the uniform choice of $\epsilon$.
 
Can you please elaborate
 
You want to get a $\delta > 0$ such that for all $|h| < \delta$ and for all $x$, $|g_h(x) - g(x)| < \epsilon$. That's not merely continuity, is it?
It's uniform continuity.
 
Oh, right. Continuous with compact support implies uniform continuity :O
 
4:12 PM
Right.
 
I was just using that by continuity for any $\epsilon>0$ there exists a $\delta>0$ such that whenever $|(x-h)-x|<\delta$ (i.e. $|h|<\delta$) then $|g(x-h)-g(x)|=|g_h(x)-g(x)|<\epsilon$
which seems not to need uniform continuity (?)
 
Continuity fixes an $x$ in question first. Your $\epsilon$ there is dependent on $x$.
 
You're right
Thanks!
 
I think you are right that compactness of the support is not necessary though. I can always take a large compact set containing the support (if it's bounded - that is crucial), in which everything is happening and everything is uniformly continuous
So yeah this shouldn't be a complicated point
 
Sure. I just get confused sometimes since the notes will say "since this is continuous with compact support [XYZ]"
And I don't know if the continuity is implying XYZ, or it's the closedness of the support or the boundedness of the support etc
(or the whole package)
 
4:24 PM
Isn't the support sometimes defines as the closure of the points where the function doesn't vanish?
 
Boundedness is crucial, and not because of volume, you can have unbounded subsets with finite volume (think of union of the intervals $[a_n, a_{n+1}]$ where $a_n$ is the $n$-th partial sum of $\sum 1/k^2$) but you can have a function which is $x^2$ on those intervals and vanishes on some open neighborhood of the union of those intervals
That's not uniformly continuous on the support! So yikes!
 
I've always seen "continuous with compact support" refer to the version of support where you take a closure in the definition. Closedness of the support is not an issue, boundedness is the important part
 
Whaddup nerds
 
Yo @Dami
 
4:34 PM
Relevant greeting was relevant :P
Just got Jacobson I and II in the mail which I'll be using to get ready for quals if I actually get time this summer to do that
 
@Daminark It's even better if you say it with a lisp
"Fhwaddup Nerfdss"
 
@Daminark What's that?
 
"Basic Algebra I/II" by Jacobson. Because I've given up on trying to actually read Dummit and Foote while awake
 
"Dummit and Foote announces Dummit-Foote 2, Jacobson rejected"
 
"Amazon forest finally destroyed"
 
4:49 PM
0
A: Pairwise Commuting Elements Generating a Certain Subalgebra

WuestenfuxIf I have understood it correctly, the elements of the subalgebra are ${\Bbb C}$-linear combinations of the form $$a_1^{m_1}a_2^{m_2}\cdots a_n^{m_n},$$ where $m_1,m_2,\ldots,m_n$ are integers.

I'm not particularly fond of Dummit and Foote.
The exercises seem to fall into three categories: way too easy, way too hard, or way too specific to really gain anything from them.
That last category is a bit ill-defined, but oh well.
Hungerford's book is decent.
 
5:24 PM
Could anyone here provide me some good papers on the connection between IMPROPER Riemann integrals and Lebesgue integrals ? Thanks.
Also, if we have function f Lebesgue integrable over R , can we conclude anything about the existence of the Riemann integral of f ?
 
cis
@SamuelNovelinka "It's called 'foot of the altitude'" ----> thank you.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:41 PM
I don't know of any deep connection. If a function is absolutely improperly Riemann-integrable, it is Lebesuge-integrable. This does not hold in the non-absolutely convergent case (e.g. $\sin(x)/x$). And being Lebesgue-integrable generally does not imply being Riemann-integrable.
 
@Thorgott
can we conclude this ( on the picture ) if we only know that f is Lebesgue integrable ?
so the last inequality is straight forward from the assumption
and the first one is analysis
 
hello @Thorgott
 
actually first one is not analysis , i didnt notice d$\lambda$
 
@cdt too often. Then I start nagging about it in this chat room because I can't do it irl. It's not a good thing. Two or three days ago a girl in kolkata committed suicide because she was too obsessed with getting into ISI.
 
@ thorgott everything is clear
I thought the integral on the left is Riemann
thanks
I hate it when they mix Riemann and Lebesgue notations
 
6:51 PM
She used to get upset whenever she got stuck on a problem. That led to some deep issues and she gave up. She was a brilliant student anyway.
 
Alright, glad this is cleared up then :)
 
:)
 
1
Q: Are there no semiprimes of the form $n^n+n!$, where $n \gt 7$?

MathphileI searched for semiprimes of the form of $n^n+n!$, where $n \in \Bbb{N}$, for a range of $n \le 2 \times 10^4$ on PARI/GP and found semiprimes of the form $n^n+n!$ only for $n=2, 3, 7$. We can write $n^n+n!$ as: $$n^n+n!=n(n^{n-1}+(n-1)!)$$ Therefore we can also alternatively look for primes of ...

Anyone know how to approach this problem?
 
 
3 hours later…
9:37 PM
I need to check if I'm over- or under-thinking something here. An integral domain is called almost-dedekind if its localizations at primes are all discrete valuation rings. An integral domain is called Prufer if its localizations are all valuation rings. Then to find an example of something that is Prufer but not almost-Dedekind, any non-discrete valuation domain should work... right? Please excuse my paranoia.
 
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