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5:00 PM
also jetzt ist zeit für Homologische algebra
 
viel Spaß
 
Danke :)
 
Hey, does anyone know a proof of the De Moivre-Laplace theorem that addresses the uniformity? I worked out the details by myself, but I'm not completely convinced by my calculations and the fact that the uniformity usually gets stated, but not addressed in the proofs (at least those I've seen) makes me feel I'm missing something one way or the other.
 
5:17 PM
Hi @Ted
 
Is there a term for abelian groups of the form $\mathbb{Z}/p_1\mathbb{Z}\oplus\mathbb{Z}/p_2\mathbb{Z}\oplus\cdots\oplus\mathbb{Z}/p_n\mathbb{Z}$ where $p_i$ are all primes?
 
semisimple abelian group
though that also allows for an infinite direct sum
semisimple finite abelian group if you want a finite sum
 
semisimple, danke schön.
infinite collections might be included, too, at some point but yeah, I'll have to make a distinction at some point.
 
5:33 PM
sup
I am going to ask a question that I have no idea about. But I will ask anyway
 
@AlessandroCodenotti Yeah, the integer-coefficient polynomials are not well-ordered. Is there a name for their order type?
 
@AlessandroCodenotti On the other hand, the natural-coefficient polynomials are well-ordered, right? Are they order-isomorphic to $\omega^\omega$? And the natural-coefficient polynomial towers to $\varepsilon_0$?
 
Is the Dirichlet eta function on $(0,1)$ continuous (i guess being analytic, it is so). Now, the absolute value function is continuous.

Has there been any approach to show that the norm has $0$ only as a lower bound on $(1/2,1)$ but it doesn't attain it anywhere? (intermediate value theorem on $\mathbb{R}$)
 
@AlessandroCodenotti Moreover, do their (commutative) addition and multiplication have anything to do with the (commutative) Hessenberg addition and multiplication of ordinals?
 
5:54 PM
$f:[a,b]\to\mathbb{C}$ continuous on [a,b] and zero outside [a,b]. Then $f$ is uniformly continuous on [a,b] and on \mathbb{R}\setminus [a,b].

Why is $f$ uniformly continuous on all of $\mathbb{R}$?

My attempt was considering a point x of [a,b] and a t outside, then I must choose a $\delta$ such that $|f(x)-f(t)| = |f(x)| < \epsilon$ but I think this is not the way, any help?
 
There's a mathematical concept I'm thinking of and I'm not sure what the name is, or if it has a name.
If you take a number, and divide it by some number X, and continue dividing the results by X, seeing how many times you can divide until you get to some predefined point
I'm trying to figure out if there's a way to tell what X should be if you want to have a specific number of steps.
 
Do you want to reach a specific number or get below a specific number? The former is probably not possible in a lot of cases.
 
Until I get to something that can be rounded to 1.
below 2
 
@AnalyticHarmony This is wrong without additional hypotheses. Consider the indicator function of any compact interval.
 
6:12 PM
Well, if $a$ is your starting number, $b$ is your ending number, and $n$ is the number of steps you want, you just want to divide by $\sqrt[n]{\frac{a}{b}}$ assuming these are all positive real numbers.
 
$\sqrt[n]{\frac{a}{b}}$
I'm not familiar with some of that.
What do the curly braces and its contents mean?
 
Ah, do you not have latex enabled in chat?
 
No
How do I do that?
 
It's the n-th root of a divided by b. Check out the info at the top-right of the screen to get latex enabled in the chat.
 
I dragged "Rendering On" to my bookmark bar and clicked it, but nothing happened
Oh, there it is
render MathJax
 
6:17 PM
You've got it working?
 
Yeah
 
Excellent
 
And that formula works fantastic! Thanks!
Is there a name for this?
 
Uhm, let's call it "Rithaniel's miraculous number finding thing"
(In other words, no. I just came up with the formula just now.)
 
lol
 
6:24 PM
It should be noted that diving $a$ by $\sqrt[n]{\frac{a}{b}}$ $n$ times will get you exactly to $b$ and not below $b$. Not sure if that's a relevant distinction in this case or not.
 
No, that's fine. I put in 1 and it worked for me.
 
Yeah, also the majority of those numbers will be irrational, which, if this is being used in a computer environment, will lead to rounding errors.
 
It is an a computer environment, but I'm doing Math.floor() anyway.
 
Particularly as $n$ gets large or $\frac{a}{b}$ gets small.
 
In the worst case, just round $\sqrt[n]{\frac{a}{b}}$ up. That should work regardless.
 
6:27 PM
I have a database of people and I'm producing a heat map of US counties that they live in. Blue for almost none, red for the most populous counties. With this particular distribution, the highest populations are in a small handful of counties. The rest of the country is pretty close to zero. So if I do a linear graph, everything is going to be completely red or completely blue.
If I do it this way, I see a lot more detail.
This is the result, btw i.imgur.com/yhr9mDK.png
 
Looks pretty nice. The numbers on the left are average people per square kilometer? (Probably could use a legend to indicate)
 
No, not the average. Just the flat-out number of people in our database.
 
Ah, fair enough.
It looks like you have pretty steep drop-off around the peak counties.
 
I figure we're going to still be fiddling with it. I think I need to add another step.
 
7:25 PM
@AnalyticHarmony because we only need to worry about the points in $[a,b]$
And continuity on a closed and bounded interval implies uniform continuity
@AnalyticHarmony I don't think this is true for every such case. Take $f:[5,6] \to \mathbb{C}$ such that $f(x)=1$ when $x \in [5,6]$
the extension mapping is not even continuous, let alone uniform continuity
@AlessandroCodenotti , sup
is my counter example correct?
 
Counterexample to what?
 
@AnalyticHarmony thIS
 
Yes, it is. I proposed a similar counter-example above.
 
@Thorgott ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
$\chi_{[a,b]}$
awesome
@Thorgott , I just came across a nice problem
 
7:45 PM
Do you guys ever remember some math fact but find yourself unable to remember exactly where you learned it?
Like, it suddenly occurs to me that I have no idea when or how I was first introduced to the notion of a magma.
 
@Rithaniel I am very noob at math. But it does happen.
@Rithaniel I heard the name, I remember. I forgot the concept
 
What's the problem?
 
So, you know what a group is? A magma is like a group, but satisfies different axioms.
 
@Rithaniel a groupoid
 
Namely, the binary operation of a magma only satisfies the closure axiom.
 
7:48 PM
simple binary operation that obey the closure
 
Yes, that's another term for it.
 
@Rithaniel yeah.
Every group must be a groupoid/magma
 
Then there are quasigroups which satisfy divisibility and semigroups which satisfy associativity.
Correspondingly loops and monoids when you add an identity to either such type of magma.
 
@Thorgott don't solve it. No hints. $f: \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}$ be such that $f(x)=f(x^2), \forall x \in \mathbb{R}$. Then $f$ is constant
@Rithaniel yes. Prologue to group theory
 
groupoids are generally usually reserved for structures which are like groups except where the binary operation is only partially defined
it shouldn't be exchangeably used with magma
 
7:51 PM
how is every group a groupoid?
 
Okay, I've not actually known why there were different terms for the same object.
 
@Ultradark closure
 
That's useful info to have.
 
a groupoid is devoid of the closure axiom right
 
does the loop group has something to do with homotopy classes?
 
7:52 PM
so I don't see how it can be a group
if a group requires closure
 
@Ultradark ahh. That's why we can't interchange with magma
 
okay
I haven't taken abstract algebra yet though so...
 
a groupoid, with additional condition, i.e. closure is called a magma
 
I haven't taken any higher math courses :/
 
A loop is not related to homotopy classes, no.
It's a type of algebraic structure satisfying three axioms. Closure, identity, and divisibility.
 
7:56 PM
yeah that one's a stretch
 
In mathematics, a loop group is a group of loops in a topological group G with multiplication defined pointwise. == Definition == In its most general form a loop group is a group of mappings from a manifold M to a topological group G. More specifically, let M = S1, the circle in the complex plane, and let LG denote the space of continuous maps S1 → G, i.e. L G = { γ : S 1 → G | γ ∈ C (...
i was talking about tis
 
that's different
 
i accidentally discovered it
 
but also has nothing to do with homotopy classes, almost by definition :P
 
Ah, that's new to me. Now I have something to read.
 
7:57 PM
its literally the space of all loops (based at some point)
just has a natural group structure if the underlying space is a topological group
 
@BalarkaSen no shifting?
 
wtf does that even mean
 
@SubhasisBiswas I think that's wrong. Take $f$ to be the indicator function of $0$ (the hypothesis do not allow you to control the function at $0$).
 
@Thorgott which one?
 
The $f(x)=f(x^2)\forall x\Rightarrow f\text{ constant}$ one.
 
8:01 PM
@Thorgott can you construct a proper counterexample?
 
when is the product topology more desirable to equip a topological space with as opposed to the box topology. The product topology is a more course grained topology but I am not quite sure I understand this notion completely
 
the box topology is never correct
 
Yes, the indicator function of $0$ is one.
Actually, you can take any such function and change $f(0)$ and $f(1)$ to something arbitrary without violating the property.
 
i forgot to mention
$f$ is a continuous function
otherwise that won't work
 
Ok, then it's true.
I wonder if it holds without the assumption of continuity when restricted to the right sets though.
 
8:04 PM
@RyanUnger whiteboy released a new song, called "straight white male"
the hook is just
brilliant
 
Clearly, the values the functions takes on the sets $(-\infty,-1)\cup(1,\infty)$, $\{-1,1\}$, $\{0\}$ and $(-1,0)\cup(0,1)$ can be chosen independently of each other then, but I can't think of a function satisfying the property that is non-constant on these sets.
 
okay the product topology is apparently more useful in practice
 
In before there is a counter-example, but only with choice..
 
Balarka I heard you can figure out any question even if you know nothing about it a priori
 
8:22 PM
so I guess my question is, what influential work have you done?
 
8:41 PM
@Thorgott i believe I have solved it
"BELIEVE"
let me post it
 
Sure.
 
8:53 PM
Suppose, (towards a contradiction) that $f$ is not constant. Then for at least one $b \in \mathbb{R}$, $f(1) \neq f(b)$. First, consider the case where $b \neq 0$. WLOG $b \in \mathbb{R}^+$ [if not, then consider $b^2 \in \mathbb{R}^+$, the rest of the procedure will remain the same since $f(b^2)=f(b)\neq f(1)$]

By the hypothesis, $f(b^{1/2}) =f (b) \neq f(1)$. Iterating the process, $f( b^{ \frac{1}{2^n}})\neq f(1)$. Letting $n \to \infty $, we get either $\lim_{x\to 1^-}f(x)$ or $\lim_{x \to 1^+}f(x) \neq f(1)$ [depending on whether $b<1$ or $b>1$ respectively]. But, by sequential crite
@Thorgott
:( not good enough?
 
If $n |k$, is it true that the dihedral group $D_n$ can be embedded into the dihedral group $D_k$ as a normal subgroup?
 
@user193319 wow, that's a nice question.
 
I'm pretty certain it can be embedded as a subgroup (currently working on proving that the proposed homomorphism is surjective).
If $c$ is the rotation of $D_k$, $d$ the reflection, I claim that $D_n \cong \langle c^{n/k},dc^{n/k} \rangle$.
 
You are saying that (intuitively), that a larger symmetry contains a smaller symmetry?
 
I have injectivity...Is it obvious that $\langle c^{n/k},dc^{n/k} \rangle$ contains $2n$ elements.
@SubhasisBiswas Yes, that's correct.
 
9:04 PM
Looks good to me.
 
@Thorgott felt sorta amazing when that idea sparked
@user193319 @Thorgott, what do you think?
 
Sure, $D_{2k}$ is a subgroup of $D_{2n}$ whenever $k | n$. Just embed the $k$-gon inside the $n$-gon, vertex-by-vertex; the isometries of the $n$-gon are isometries of the embedded $k$-gon as well. There is no reason to expect this is going to be normal (unless it's index $2$ or something). $D_2 \cong \Bbb Z_2$ embeds in $D_6 \cong S_3$, but there is no normal subgroup of order $2$.
That's sort of cheating because $1 | 3$, but I can't be bothered to look for "real" examples.
In the index $2$ case sometimes you can say more, $D_{4n} \cong D_{2n} \times \Bbb Z_2$ if $n$ is odd for example.
 
@BalarkaSen is was thinking about this "pinning the objects with each other by vertex"
 
That's such a complicated way to describe inscribed polygons
 
@BalarkaSen dujon ke dujoner kaan dhore daar koriye deoa
does it work for $3$ dimensional symmetries?
 
9:15 PM
It works everywhere. There is no mystery about it.
Just think for more than 2 seconds and you'll get it
 
for example, consider a cube. Will it necessarily contain the symmetries of a square? I was thinking about it. I believe it should. For rotations (planar rotation), it is good. For the symmetries where the figure is flipped around the vertical and horizontal axes, it holds good too
The other cases for the cube are not applicable for the square, since it has lesser degrees of freedom
 
Yes, $D_4$ embeds in the rotation group of the cube, which is $S_4$.
 
that is my intuition. Formulation is what I need to work on.
 
It's one of the Sylow $2$-subgroups of $S_4$, in fact.
Just take the equatorial square in the cube
 
@BalarkaSen got it
 
9:20 PM
There are three conjugate $D_4$'s in $S_4$, corresponding to the three equatorial squares (xy, yz and xz planes).
 
@Thorgott proof good?
@BalarkaSen
@BalarkaSen what does non conjugate mean here?
 
What are you pinging me for exactly
 
@BalarkaSen for the verification.
i still don't know how to reply to my own message
 
Oh I meant non-normal. They are conjugate.
 
@SubhasisBiswas does this work
 
9:22 PM
$H_1, H_2 \leq G$ are conjugate if there is some $g \in G$ such that $gH_1 g^{-1} = H_2$.
All the Sylow $p$-subgroups are conjugate in a finite group, is what the above demonstrates.
 
hmm... "some" $g$
 
I personally would just prove it directly rather than going by contradiction, but other than that, it's good.
 
can you give your line of idea @Thorgott
I sometimes wish I grew up in such a mathematically engrossing environment. Looking back at how I spent my 20 years makes me sad.
 
@user193319 There doesn't seem to be a small order example I can give you. I checked this, which says there are two conjugacy classes of Klein 4-groups in $D_{16}$. So there you have it, there is no normal subgroup of $D_{16}$ isomorphic to $D_4$.
 
Ah, very nice. Thanks!
 
9:26 PM
For $b>0$, $f(b)=f(b^{1/2n})\rightarrow f(1)$ by continuity. For $b<0$, $f(b)=f(b^2)=f(1)$ by the foregoing. Finally, $f(0)=f(1)$ by continuity.
 
@Thorgott that's an abridged version
@BalarkaSen I was also trying to find a subgroup of some $D$ that is not normal.
couldn't do it.
 
I mean, I gave an example. $D_2$ in $D_6$.
 
restricted my search with $D8$
 
But $D_2$ is not really a good example of a dihedral group, was my point, so I was looking for bigger examples.
@SubhasisBiswas Of course that's not going to work, after $D_2$ your only choice is $D_4$ which is index $2$, so normal.
 
@BalarkaSen can a line be considered a polygon?
 
9:29 PM
A bigon, yes.
 
aren't we dealing with closed shapes?
@BalarkaSen understood. I keep on missing these things.
 
It's not a line, it's two vertices and two edges joining them.
Literally what a 2-gon should be
$D_4$ is the symmetry group of that
 
No, a line isn't a bigon!!
 
Hi @Ted
 
But that is one my favorite set-up lines in teaching Gauss-Bonnet: Let bigons be bigon.
hi, a @Balarka.
 
9:33 PM
hi @TedShifrin
 
I was trying to figure out how to make that exact pun.
 
I used it too many times teaching diff geo. But I did come up with it the very first time :P
 
@TedShifrin Lol, you do G-B on a bigon?
 
Probably better to spell it: Let bigons be bygone.
Why not, @Balarka? Take a lune of a sphere, for example.
 
Yeah it is a manifold with corners, but... :D
 
9:35 PM
Remember that we do regions with piecewise smooth boundary. You refuse to learn the general theorem.
 
Why not on a teardrop? (One vertex, one edge joining the vertex to itself)
@TedShifrin Hey I learnt it when I took the differential geometry class this semester!
 
Yeah, you can also wonder if there's a non-smooth geodesic that crosses itself and look at Gauss-Bonnet for that.
You learned about geodesic curvature and angle excess finally?
 
Yup.
 
Yippee.
Oh, someone posted on main a question, allegedly from Jack Lee's Riemannian Geometry book, which I am sure is totally false. The problem was to show that Grassmannians (with the obvious $O(n)$-invariant metric) are isotropic manifolds.
 
It's very natural. Curvature term on the interior, on the boundary (geodesic curvature), and concentrated curvature on the corners (angle defects), all three terms appear.
 
9:38 PM
Other than projective spaces and spheres, I'm pretty sure that's wrong.
 
Unfortunately I ran out of time otherwise I would have given a proof sketch of Gauss Bonnet at the end
 
@BalarkaSen Indeed. Generalizing Chern's high-dimensional theorem to things with corners, I dunno.
Do you know what isotropic means?
 
Isom(M) acts transitively?
 
For every point $p$, there is an isometry fixing $p$ that carries any unit tangent vector to any other unit tangent vector.
No, that's just homogeneous.
 
Or a little more than that. On tangent vectors maybe?
Got it
 
9:40 PM
Hullo!
 
That has to be crap.
$S^2\times S^2$ isn't isotropic, I'm pretty sure.
heya @ÍgjøgnumMeg
 
Yeah I don't believe it
 
If it were true, I'd already have known it. :P
 
Hey @Ted @Balarka :)
@Subhasis those look like props on the show "Gladiators"
 
9:41 PM
You can draw just two vertices, and two different arcs joining them, @SubhasisBiswas.
 
@SubhasisBiswas I was referring to this
the symmetry group $D_1$. What I had in my mind was the two points being reflected
@TedShifrin that will be more suited.
@BalarkaSen why the corners are of special note? is it because the "smoothness" is violated (like $|x|$) ?
 
The boundary curve turns abruptly at corners
 
@BalarkaSen does it have anything to do with the tangent bundles?
 
No, it does not have anything to do with a million words you keep throwing up!
 
@BalarkaSen I am throwing up not because I am trying to sound smart
I am just interested in the intuition
trying to capture in my mind what is actually going on
 
9:47 PM
It's better to understand what these terminologies mean before trying to get an intuitive understanding of them
 
@BalarkaSen the boundary curve turns abruptly. So in my head I am visualisiing a curve that does not have a tangle at that particular point
like I said $|x|$.
 
What is a "bundle," by the way? I've seen that word tossed around but not actually seen the definition.
 
@Rithaniel a collection of tangents at a point.
In differential geometry, the tangent bundle of a differentiable manifold M {\displaystyle M} is a manifold T M {\displaystyle TM} which assembles all the tangent vectors in M. As a set, it is given by the disjoint union of the tangent spaces of M. That is, T M = ⨆ x ∈ M...
 
The derivative is discontinuous at that point, sure. But the point is the measure of "turning", which is the concentrated curvature at the corner.
Gauss-Bonnet isn't that hard to understand. You can do the following exercise if you really want to get a hint of what it's about. Take three arcs of great circles which meet at three distinct points, making a "triangle" on a sphere of radius $1$. Say the angles of this triangle are $\alpha, \beta, \gamma$. Suppose the triangle traps an area $A$. Then prove that $(\alpha + \beta + \gamma) - \pi = A$.
This is an exercise in spherical geometry, so beware.
@SubhasisBiswas No.
 
@BalarkaSen will try. I will make mistakes, sure. But bear with me. Help this kid learn.
 
9:53 PM
@Rithaniel Roughly speaking, it's a family of objects parametrized over a topological space $X$.
 
@BalarkaSen what about when the "object" is a tangent?
 
That is very general.
 
So a vector bundle, eg, is a family of vector spaces $\{V_x\}_{x \in X}$ parametrized over a topological space $X$.
But it's not a random family, there's some regularity.
For example, for every point $p \in X$ you can find a neighborhood $U$ of $p$ small enough such that the family $\{V_x\}_{x \in U}$ looks like the projection $\Bbb R^k \times U \to U$.
 
Okay, so you wouldn't just have a family of unrelated objects and call it a bundle?
 
Exactly, no. The last condition is the crucial one.
It's called "local triviality". A trivial family of vector spaces over $X$ would be the projection to the second coordinate $\Bbb R^k \times X \to X$, fiber over each point being the vector space $\Bbb R^k$.
 
9:56 PM
why dV/dt is negative definite? Shouldn't be negative semi definite?!
 
A vector bundle is a family of vector spaces over $X$ where for each point you can get a sufficiently small neighborhood where the family becomes trivial.
 
Ah, okay. Still fairly general, but I believe I understand
 
any suggestion?
 
Apparently, if I try to evaluate this via surface integral, then... it's not going to go very nice (will try though).

What are the prerequisites?
 
@Rithaniel Yeah, bundles are very general objects. But they're nice. I'd recommend the first chapter of Hatcher's "Vector Bundle and K-Theory" if you want to learn some of it at some point.
The introductory words on chapter 1 are definitely worth going through regardless
He draws some nice pictures and described the tangent bundle of a sphere
@SubhasisBiswas No, no, absolutely no surface integral crap
 
10:05 PM
@BalarkaSen was going to end up horribly anyway
a direct application of Gauss Bonnet?
 
No, this is basic spherical geometry.
 
okay. Don't solve this
just tell me the starting point
 
"Think about it for more than 2 seconds" is the starting point.
 
been thinking....
 
What are you trying to evaluate
 
10:08 PM
wait. don't tell anything right now.
 
Compute the area trapped by a lune on a sphere first.
 
@BalarkaSen lune?
i ain't gonna google
 
Take two great circles. They bound two pairs of bigons, each pair being of equal area.
Compute that area
 
You should be able to guess what it is before embarking on complicated computations (a full discussion does require calculus but forget about it for now)
 
10:13 PM
$\alpha -\pi$?
 
What is $\alpha$
 
the angle at the intersection of the two great circles
 
If $\alpha = 0$ then the area is $-\pi$???
 
wait, then there is going to be another one. $2\pi - \alpha - \pi$
two pairs
 
Again, check $\alpha = 0$ :P
 
10:18 PM
we are discussing about a sphere of unit radius, right?
 
Yes
I'm heading to bed. After you come up with the right guess, come up with a proof which does not require integral calculus; just some basic analysis argument.
Night
 
morning
this is very analogous to the case of circles... Area enclosed by a circular section is $\theta r^2/2$
 
Perhaps a good framing question "What portion of the surface of a sphere would be contained in a spherical lune?"
 
is the answer $2 \alpha$?
@Rithaniel
 
Haven't given an attempt at proving it, but that would be my guess, yes.
Next step is to explain your reasoning and try to remember what you did so that you can apply it to other tasks in the future.
 
10:39 PM
actually I guessed it with the help of the integral $\int_0^\alpha \int_0^{\pi/2} {\sin (\theta) d \theta d \phi}$. I will try to further explain it analytically
 
10:58 PM
I want to carry my analytical argument from here. (not much of a formal "proof"). In two dimension, the figure (circle) is flat and the great circles in this case are its diameters (the $z$ axis being absent, what we see in $2$ dimension, is just a flat line with zero curvature).

Now, as we inflate the figure into a bigger sized (now the $z$ axis appears) ball, every aspect regarding its surface area is multiplied by $4$. So, the section formula turns into $4 \times \alpha /2 =2 \alpha$.
(solid angle)
now, the rest of the problem...
 
@BalarkaSen didn't melon do a video on that
 
Yes, he did
 
@Thorgott how do you know what melon means
 
@BalarkaSen indeed, brilliantly targeted
 
@SubhasisBiswas $2 \alpha$ is the combined area on the front side and the back side. It is analogous to $2 \times sector$ in case of 2D
 
11:13 PM
I watch him
 
me too
 
11:52 PM
@SubhasisBiswas: Note that $\dfrac{\alpha}{2\pi}\cdot 4\pi = 2\alpha$.
 
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