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19:00
I think I have only ever gotten a B on a math test once, and never an A
a B is a respectable grade. given how hard you find the material, i would think that would count as a "win"
how much time do you have before the final?
The final isnt for about 5 weeks I think
but there is no comprehensive final
just a second test next week and then a third test in 4 weeks
and what section(s)/topics will these tests be covering?
Wow, why no summer vacation ?
I am too old to take summers off
My next test is differential equations and parametric equations and polar coordinates and stuff
19:14
@Jordan Well I am older than you, and at our university everyone has roughly two months of vacation now.
your course covers a lot of ground, fairly fast.
i can see you dreading the polar coordinates stuff, because there's...trig involved.
yeah I never leanred polar coordinates
rho rho rho your theta, gently down the graph.....
2
we can describe a point in the plane 2 ways: go left/right (x-axis) and up/down (y-axis). or: stand at the origin, turn $\theta$ degrees, and then go for a distance of $\rho$
one way sees the plane as lying on a (rectangular) grid, the other way sees it as a bunch of concentric rings (sort of like an onion)
I think it is really cool if we imagine the change of coordinate system as a stretch or shrink of the xy plane. Then even substitutions are cool since they transform your function in the xy plane to the uy plane or the variable of your choosing.
well, coordinate transformations can be more than just "dilations"
you can have "translations" and rotations, too
19:28
Yeah, like $xy \to r \theta$
and the latter two are "rigid" they don't stretch anything
but , yes, continuous coordinate transformations are preferable, for hopefully obvious reasons
@DavidWheeler Is not the latter transformation continuous? Mind I have only very limited knowledge of this.
What would be a continuous coordinate transformation then? Something that does not rotate or stretch the coordinates?
(we'd like dA, the "area element" to stay "sort of the same", under such a transformation. and not blow up and get strangely large)
@N3buchadnezzar no, continuous transformations may "stretch", "shrink" or even "twist" the plane (as long as we don't "rip" it)
I'd stay clear of continuous transformations and focus on smooth transformations if I were doing calculus, though...
@DavidWheeler Do you have any recommendations for books regarding this? I guess it falls a bit between analysis, geometry and topology.
19:34
@ZhenLin yes, "smooth" transformations are even better.
Ah, I think I understand now why the transformation to polar coordinates is not a continuous transformation.
It's continuous and even smooth if you restrict the domain.
A straight line in the $xy$ plane can be expressed as $ax + by = c$, and it exists for all values of $x$ and $y$.
But the same is not true if you express a straight line in polar coordinates.
eg. $r = c/\bigl(a\cos(\theta)+b\sin(\theta)\bigr)$
yes, those pesky theta's! we have to only consider the first positive 360 degrees, or else we run into a problem....
@N3buchadnezzar: Obviously, you don't write it like that. Write it as $a r \cos \theta + b r \sin \theta = c$ and it works.
19:38
well, with coordinate transformations, we want to be able to go "back-and-forth".
that is we need bijective functions.
Yes. And it is bijective, if you restrict the domain and codomain appropriately.
injective and surjective =)
It's even better than a bijection: it's a diffeomorphism.
this comes up in a BIG way in the complex plane.
Let us assume we are looking at R3, and a sphere of radius 1. $x^2+y^2+z^2=1$
Now we transform the $xyz$-plane to spherical coordinates. $z,\theta,\phi$. How would the sphere look in the new coordinate system?
19:41
You mean $(r, \theta, \phi)$. The sphere becomes $r = 1$, of course.
you mean cylindrical coordinates?
because in spherical coordinates, it's trivial (like Zhen said)
Yeah, ops. I meant cylindrical coordinates.
Then that's $(\rho, \theta, z)$. The equation is $\rho^2 + z^2 = 1$.
Hi guys!
@JonasTeuwen Eeeeek!
19:47
@N3buchadnezzar Hi girlie.
@N3buchadnezzar you might enjoy amazon.com/…
it's not hard to read, and is very "intuitive"
@JonasTeuwen sup?
i eight sum pi...ok, lemme think...no index, so it must have been just ONE pie, times 8, so that's 8 pies, and they were imaginary! joke's on me...
@skullpatrol I'm okay!
@DavidWheeler I am actually eating some of these now
19:53
i am going into a diabetic coma just looking at those....
Mine is not covered in white junk, but with eggs =)
user19161
20:11
@N3buchadnezzar The shape looks like that of shit.
calc students are so complainy!
@Eugene Jealous mathematicians are so jealous!
user19161
I wonder whether MSE will still exist 10 years from now...
@JasperLoy What would replace it ?
@JasperLoy Simultaneously asking the same question in two chat rooms is trolling, my friend ;-)
user19161
20:19
@skullpatrol I see you are stalking me!
user19161
@N3buchadnezzar Maybe it would just vanish.
Ding dong! Food!
@JasperLoy I wouldn't say "stalking" ... more like "patrolling" ;-)
I generalized a few of my theorems today to more general Markov semigroups! So productive. Nice.
user19161
@JonasTeuwen I think you are on your way to solving the millennium problems.
user19161
20:27
@JonasTeuwen I am having tea now.
Uh... Markov semigroups are quite far from that 8-).
I'm more interested in doing harmonic analysis with weird semigroups.
@JonasTeuwen You should have a mathematics drinking game!
Generalizing theorems: drink whisky.
Proving a theorem: Drink more whisky
@N3buchadnezzar If you prove a theorem you need to drink a couple of shots of whisky depending on the difficulties you have encountered?
Proving the Goldbach Conjucture: Open bar!
@JonasTeuwen Yes, exactly. Your fellow mathematicians chooses the amounts of shots.
"That was a hard one. I think it would be the most appropriate if you drank the whole bottle."
20:32
@JonasTeuwen I actually tried mixing vodka and watermelon last weekend.
How did that go?
Like some angels were pissing on your head?
Well the next time will be better.
It has been a long time since I had a decent drink.
Certainly since saturday.
It takes quite some time for the vodka to drench into the melon (few hours), and one need needles to shoot vodka into other parts of the melon.
^^ Indeed, thats what we did...
But for the next time I will be sure to leave the melon and the bottle over night, or at least a few hours.
It was actually really good. Too bad the vodka tasted like windshield cleaning water bare.
It always tastes like that.
20:36
The 60% tasted better...
Well. If you have some preparation time vodka and watermelon is a great combination =)
Excellent.
21:43
Is there something I am missing on my answer to this question? I know my answer was a bit later, but the other answers have gotten votes since I answered. I think it is complete.
+1 for colours ... I don't understand from top to bottom ,,, :D
Someone seems to be flagging a particular user's questions indiscriminately...
@JonasTeuwen There are only two branches of mathematics, harmonic analysis and non harmonic analysis.
@N3buchadnezzar How about operator theory? :-(.
@JonasTeuwen It fits in the latter category :p
21:57
I just took a 6 hour break from math, I think that was too long
Is there any reason why most mathematicians I encounter in here preffer Point set topology over combinatorial or algebraic topology?
There are only three branches of mathematics: cryptography, continuum mechanics, and celestial mechanics. :p
David Wheeler recommended me a book on combinatorial topology, and it seems interesting.
(to paraphrase Arnol'd)
@ZhenLin :p
22:11
@ZhenLin hey
Next semester I am gonna do several variable analysis out of duistermaat and kolk !!
looks intense
shrug
have you seen that book, what did you learn several variable analysis out of?
I went to lectures. :p
22:13
What book did they use?
The problem is I have to do that as a reading course
my uni has no several variables course
We don't use textbooks.
course notes, do you have them?
@ZhenLin At your uni was the several variables like "evaluate this double integral, etc" or was it really theoretical
course notes are handwritten!
by attending lectures!
You kids getting printed notes have no idea how lucky you are. :p
22:17
well
it's a book
@ZhenLin next semester we have scott morrison here as senior lecturer at anu
jarod alper
soon to be next year I believe David Smythe
My Analysis II course was terrible. It felt confused. At one point the lecturer got confused about how to show that an open ball is an open set.
hahahahahaahahahahaha
@ZhenLin I just did analysis I
the most stupid course I've done
had DEs, fractals, several variables and usual analysis in metric spaces in it
they taught several variables in like 1 week
it was ridiculous
that's why next semester I have to re-learn it again
@ZhenLin have you heard of this guy jarod alper?
nope
He may be the lecturer of Algebra III
looks like an algebraic geometer
man this guy scott morrison has done a paper with vaughan jones.
user19161
22:39
@ZhenLin That sounds too trivial!
user19161
@N3buchadnezzar Maybe because the combinatorial uses too much imagination and algebraic uses too much machinery?
I feel like I am just wasting my time, 40 hours just studying for that test and I cant even get a C
user19161
@Jordan What test is that?
Calc 2 test on integrals
user19161
@Jordan It's OK if you just want to do programming. You aren't gonna evaluate integrals for the rest of your life!
22:43
yeah but I still have like 2 years left of math to do
user19161
@Jordan And what courses will those be?
calc 2, calc 3 calc 4 and dicrete math and probably some other CS ones
maybe instead of calc 3 and 4 it is linear algebra or something and multivariable calculus maybe, I am not sure
user19161
@ZhenLin I disagree. It is the quality of instruction that matters. A lecturer can lecture well and not print notes, or he can lecture terribly and print crap notes. I got a lot of the latter myself.
user19161
@Jordan Well, your Stewart text can be used for all those calculus courses.
yeah I think so
There will probably be a newer version by the time I get there
user19161
22:50
I hate those fat calculus books myself, but I guess they may help some people.
I just hate school
I am so sick of school, I hate everything about it
the people, the teachers, the bullshit, being poor
@JasperLoy I hate those tiny calculus books :p
user19161
@N3buchadnezzar Tiny? Which ones?
It is okay though, I only have like 6 years left of school
@Jordan Calculus for dummies, amongst others
22:54
@Jordan School?
?
6 years left of college
@Jordan Oh!
college here only costs like $20,000 a year, so I will only be $120,000 in debt. I can work that off in like 10 years no problem
You use six years to get through college ?
Idiots do, and I am an idiot
user19161
22:58
@Jordan Only? That sounds terribly expensive!
@JasperLoy Yeah well actually it will be a lot less than that since I go to communities colleges since I can't get accepted into a university
Here universitites are mostly free, we have to pay for books and a fee of about 75dollars per term
I go to a very cheap school and pay about $300 a semester for books and $6,000 for classes maybe. That is very cheap in the states
actually I think $6000 is high, probably more like $3000
Alas most of us also have to pay rent for a decent place to live. So we get a student loan of roughly 13400 dollars per year, which of we have to pay back 75% granted we pass our exams. Oh and the loan is no interests as long as we as studying =)
What country?
23:02
Hey @AymanHourieh, nice to see you here!
I fucking hate word problems
user19161
@Jordan Why?
Because I am too stupid to get the normal problems so I don't know why the expect me to get even more complex problems that also require incredible amount of knowledge in science/engineering/physics/biology/stats
@N3buchadnezzar In Argentina we pay almost nothing. Maybe some photocopies or booklets, for $8$ bucks and then some administrative expenses (ie the student credential)
its bullshit
23:07
@Jordan I don't enjoy you cursing around
@Jordan Stop the whining
Either ask for help, or go study.
@PeterTamaroff Alas living expenses here are high, the same are food.
@N3buchadnezzar Oh, well here we have that problem too.
@Gigili Hello! Yeah, I come in every now and then to see what chat is all about.
23:07
I guess girls and liqour is cheap in Argentina ?
@N3buchadnezzar Liquor and girls? What?
Well since food and houses are expensive, something has to be cheap. And from the little I`ve heard of Argentina, it seems like quite the lively nation.
@BenjaminLim What else can I do?
I tried, I tried really hard, I studied for 10 hours a day for 4 days straight for a test and I get a 62 percent
23:10
Hmm, indeed. Argentina seems like quite the lively nation.
So what am I suppose to do?
Study Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger.
I can't study anymore than I did
@N3buchadnezzar Lively in what sense?
23:12
@PeterTamaroff Check my attached image.
@AymanHourieh I can make notes for the time you can't be here so you won't miss anything!
Work It Harder, Make It Better, Do It Faster
I feel like I waste my time studying
I spend all my free time studying and it is all a waste
I learn nothing and I get horrible grades
@Jordan skype
@Jordan You're not the only one.
23:13
@PeterTamaroff Next semester I'm doing several variables analysis
based on duistemaat and kolk's volumes I and II
@PeterTamaroff You are like 16 and 4 years ahead of me in math
differentiation and integration
@BenjaminLim 3 of my friends got 0%, 10% and 20% in a easy calc course
@BenjaminLim What other courses are you taking ?
@Jordan I'm almost 19
23:14
@N3buchadnezzar a reading course
@N3buchadnezzar do you know that book?
2 years off :P still about a 7 year difference
@Eugene hey :D
@BenjaminLim hey
@BenjaminLim Coooooool
@BenjaminLim two courses per term? Man that sounds relaxing.
23:14
@Eugene Next semester i'm taking algebraic topology
@N3buchadnezzar No:
@N3buchadnezzar Hey, I have three, what's the big deal?
@N3buchadnezzar algebraic topology, several variables and linear groups
I am taking 4 next semester, and this I had 5.
@BenjaminLim that's actually pretty cool. make sure to learn some homological algebra
@N3buchadnezzar you're in norway right?
23:15
@Gigili - Hehe. The logs are actually available online, which is pretty cool.
@Eugene I am getting a headache just by looking inside rotman's book
@BenjaminLim Yeah, but we are like 1 year behind every other civilized nation when it comes to mathematics so :/
@BenjaminLim haha. it's a tough book.
user19161
@ben No need to go too quickly to more advanced topics. Get your foundation right first. If you are in undergrad, take all the courses available if you wish. It's good to have a broad knowledge of different topics.
@Eugene You recommend using hatcher?
@JasperLoy That's why I'm doing several variables
23:16
@BenjaminLim it's also a tough book. i think it's better though.
user19161
@BenjaminLim Is not that a compulsory course?
@JasperLoy I have no other courses available
@JasperLoy No my uni has no several variables course
Taking pedagogic, wave physics, measure theory and some complex analysis mixed with some theory about laplace.
@Eugene i'm thinking of buying a hard copy
@BenjaminLim why? it's free.
23:17
@N3buchadnezzar my algebraic topology lecturer is norwegian
user19161
@BenjaminLim Don't buy books till you are 100 per cent sure.
@BenjaminLim HE MUST BE THE COOOOLEST PERSON ON EARTH THEN!
@Eugene I know it's available from hatcher's site but just thought having a hard copy would be good
vigleik angelveit
@N3buchadnezzar He's a little socially akward
@BenjaminLim yah if you like paper
@JasperLoy These are the options for courses next sem:
complex analysis
23:18
@BenjaminLim Thats to be expected, we do ride polar bears to school and eat goat heads all after all.
algebraic topology
@N3buchadnezzar But he's always smiling and happy!
and he's prob only like 29
I always see him carrying a baby chair around
@BenjaminLim wut
@JasperLoy So I took algebra II this sem
@Eugene Eugene, I have this "interesting" thing to tell you.
the sequel to that is algebra III
galois theory
23:19
@PeterTamaroff i'm doubtful...
@N3buchadnezzar yes
user19161
@BenjaminLim OK, complex analysis and galois theory sound good. Go ahead and take them.
@BenjaminLim I thought you said Linear algebra II...
@JasperLoy I already took galois theory this sem
@N3buchadnezzar No linear groups GL_n SL_n
@BenjaminLim Did you enjoy Galois theory? I am thinking about taking it later.
23:20
@N3buchadnezzar galois theory? Pretty good!
=)
Because of all he physic courses I am taking, I have to postone taking an introductory course to abstract algebra
$$\tau(n) =\sum_{d \mid n} d^0 = \prod_{k=1}^r (k_i+1)$$
$$\sigma(n)= \sum_{d \mid n} d^1 = \prod_{k=1}^r \frac{p_i^{k_i+1}-1}{p_i-1}$$
@JasperLoy I don't wanna take complex analysis
so that's why in place of that is my reading course on several variables
@PeterTamaroff ?
and algebraic topology
23:22
@PeterTamaroff Number theory much ?
And note that when "$x=1$" $$\frac{x^n-1}{x-1}=n$$
user19161
@BenjaminLim And why don't you want to take complex analysis?
@BenjaminLim Complex analysis is good for you!
not before several variables
so one could write
23:22
@Eugene do you think I'll be ok with algebraic topology?
@BenjaminLim Thats a good point
@BenjaminLim stay away from algebraic topology, you will turn into a machine.
$$\tau(n) =\sum_{d \mid n} d^0 = \prod_{k=1}^r \frac{{(p_i)^0}^{k_i+1}-1}{{(p_i)^0}-1}$$
$$\sigma(n)= \sum_{d \mid n} d^1 = \prod_{k=1}^r \frac{p_i^{k_i+1}-1}{p_i-1}$$
@BenjaminLim well if you have algebra and analysis why would you have trouble?
@N3buchadnezzar huh?
@Eugene Maybe there is a relation in that sense.
23:23
@Eugene well the level of abstraction from what I gather is pretty high
@Eugene though with commutative algebra I have had experience invoking universal properties, chasing diagrams, etc
@PeterTamaroff i'm confused what you're trying to tell me. this is all well known.
@AymanHourieh Ono, no need to read the transcript. Such a waste of time. Also, I like your answers, they're quite neat and well written.
@BenjaminLim Read a bit earlier in chat. Seems like people prefer point set topology over algebraic.
@Eugene I'm talking about the relation of the exponents!
@BenjaminLim that's all algebraic topology is though. lol.
@PeterTamaroff ?
23:25
@Eugene hahahahaha
user19161
@BenjaminLim Not a real question. Only you would know yourself!
the sum of $d^0$ is in terms of $$\frac{{{{\left( {{p_i}^0} \right)}^{{k_i} + 1}} - 1}}{{\left( {{p_i}^0} \right) - 1}}$$ the one of $d^1$ in terms of $$\frac{{{{\left( {{p_i}^1} \right)}^{{k_i} + 1}} - 1}}{{\left( {{p_i}^1} \right) - 1}}$$
I remember when I first started to prove the snake lemma @Eugene
it was a BIG diagram chase
I like how we are able to keep 3-4 conversations going in chat at the same time, with little to no confusion =)
user19161
@N3buchadnezzar They are just different branches. Some like this, some like that. No need to follow others.
23:26
@BenjaminLim yes it is. but you've actually already done the difficult parts of algebraic topology so you should be fine. the only thing is homotopy which is lifting.
@Eugene what are the difficult parts that i've done?
user19161
@N3buchadnezzar That's because we are awesome!
@BenjaminLim homology.
@Gigili Heh, Thanks. Glad to know I'm helping. :-)
@Eugene homology?
@Gigili hello from australia !
23:28
@BenjaminLim you'll see. =)
@Eugene Yesterday I went to a talk
apparently with homology they write $H^1$
@Eugene Do you follow?
with cohomology it's $H_1$
@BenjaminLim that's cohomology. cohomology is $H^1$.
sorry then it must have been the other way round
23:30
@PeterTamaroff i don't see what you want to show me.
@BenjaminLim Oh hi, however I don't have your hello delivered yet!
@PeterTamaroff these things are clear from the multiplicativity.
@Eugene What I mean is
$$\eqalign{
& \tau \left( n \right) = {\sum\limits_{d|n} d ^0} = \prod\limits_{i = 1}^r {\frac{{{{\left( {{p_i}^0} \right)}^{{k_i} + 1}} - 1}}{{\left( {{p_i}^0} \right) - 1}}} \cr
& \sigma \left( n \right) = \sum\limits_{d|n} {{d^1}} = \prod\limits_{i = 1}^r {\frac{{{{\left( {{p_i}^1} \right)}^{{k_i} + 1}} - 1}}{{\left( {{p_i}^1} \right) - 1}}} \cr} $$
Then $$\sigma_2\left( n \right) = \sum\limits_{d|n} {{d^2}} = \prod\limits_{i = 1}^r {\frac{{{{\left( {{p_i}^2} \right)}^{{k_i} + 1}} - 1}}{{\left( {{p_i}^2} \right) - 1}}} $$
???
user19161
@ben I don't understand this multivariable course you are doing. Isn't it standard first year stuff?
@PeterTamaroff you can try it it's easy
23:32
@JasperLoy hahahahahahahahaha
it was just here is bunch of rules on how to evaluate stuff
@JasperLoy and it's not $\theta$ it's denoted as $\sigma_2(n)$.
now it's gonna include inverse and implicit function theorems
@Eugene Just tell me! XD
@PeterTamaroff i'm actually occupied with my homework right now.
@Eugene OK, I'll just try to find it in Apostol-
23:33
@PeterTamaroff that's why @Eugene is talking bout algebraic topology :D
@BenjaminLim that's because i don't have to take time to compute anything
@PeterTamaroff here's a clue
@JasperLoy my several variables thingy is not several variable calculus
@JasperLoy It's several variable ANALYSIS
$\sigma_i(n) = \sum_{d \mid n} d^i$ is multiplicative.
there's a difference between analysis and calculus
@Eugene Yeah, it is. OK. Got it.
23:34
so let $n = p_1^{k_i} \cdots p_m^{k_m}$.
It's evident now.
so the first and second identities come from
It is multiplicative since $n^i$ is (totally) multiplicative.
@Gigili g'day!
user19161
@BenjaminLim Oh OK. But in any case you should really do complex analysis as well, later on.
23:36
$1 + p + p^2 + \ldots + p^{k_i}$
@JasperLoy 100%
I will take courses in measure theory and functionl analysis
respectively analysis II and III
@Eugene Yeah, I got it.
@JasperLoy my book on several variables, the first page I open I see words like "jordan measure"
user19161
@BenjaminLim What book is that?
user19161
@BenjaminLim Sounds good.
23:37
duistermaat and kolk
user19161
Never heard of.
@JasperLoy check it out
it's really theoretical multivariable analysis
full of proofs and shit
user19161
Hey @ben, you have an email or something you don't mind sharing?
@BenjaminLim Who's leaving? Or who came? What exactly happened?
@Gigili just saying hi. that's how we roll here!
23:44
What a short email, is that a story or something?
user19161
@BenjaminLim OK done.
@JasperLoy why?
@Gigili that was created like 6 years ago, then I was a kid!
user19161
@BenjaminLim No, just in case I want to share anything with you. I feel a deep connection with you. :-)
@JasperLoy No problems. May you be happy!
@JasperLoy No deep connections in this chat!
@BenjaminLim Understandable.
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